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Are people happy that the Krysae is now junk status?


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#151
Mazandus

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Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Nobody likes hearing it but ME3 needed to retain class exclusive weapons. This Krysae, infiltrator, nerf fiasco, never would have occurred. Krysae was more like a soldier/sentinel sniper rifle and should never have been in an infiltrator's hands.



Nah, the weapon weight as cooldown system is probably the most innovative thing BW have done for their combat mechanics. It restricts player choice and imagination to have weapons molded onto classes. IMO, the weapon weight system should be magnified further, and should have been the pillar the whole experience was based on. Some of the weapon attachments should probably add further weight to their guns.  Want to bring that super heavy uber gun? Ok, but your cloak now has a cooldown of 25 seconds. Want that extended barrel? its gonna cost you another .5 seconds between X spamming. But, that is not the direction BW has taken.

At launch the weapon weight was a good balancer of damage output because, theoretically it would prevent high damage casters from equipping the heavier and thus more powerful guns. Sadly, at launch, the heavier guns almost all universally sucked, rendering the weapon weight system moot. The idea was sound, but the implementaion was poor. Most weapons did laughable damage regardless of their weight, while other weapons did excellent damage despite their weight. The light Carnifex, heavy sniper rifles like the Widow and BW, and the super heavy Claymore reigned supreme, with all the weapons in between usually being a complete mistake to equip. With the exception of the still godly Geth Plasma Shotgun.


Now, months later, with balance changes every week, most weapons have not only become more powerful, but they've almost all become far lighter. You see, BW realized most of the weapons were trash, buffed their damage, and for whatever reason, reduced their weight as well. The damage buffs were good, but the abandonment of the weapon weight as a balance knob imo, was a terrible idea. It was easily one of the more interesting things about the entire class and weapon system, how can I fit this gun into this build or do I want this in exchange for this, etc...


But BW saw differently, so here we are now with something like the Piranha wich can give you 140% cooldown if you have it ranked high enough. (Probably even higher with some classes.) Which is downright absurd considering its damage output and the original intent of the weapon weight system. If the Pirannha weighed as much at the Claymore and had a longer reload or something it would be far more balanced of a weapon. (that is if BW had also decided reload cancelling was bad and wanted to remove it, rather than considering it emergent gameplay.) 

The weapon weight idea was good, but it was never executed well. (Nor really were most of the weapons.) A weapon may seem fine on paper, and even seem fine in game play when confronting 2 or even 3 rank and file enemies. But when you are faced with the aggressive and high density hordes of higher wave Gold and Platinum, many weapons still feel like a wasted equipment slot. Really, most of the balance problems could and would be stopped with some better testing, but I don't know how many QA people the MP team even has. Nor what kinds of tests they run the classes/weapons through. It does make you wonder though...

#152
megawug

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The one weapon that single-handedly nerfed the infiltrator class and requires no skill to use. I'm glad it's a niche weapon now, even though the damage is done.

#153
FullMetalArthur

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when I first used the Krysae I was like: omg this is literally a grenade launcher, with the boost of cloaking and a well aimed shot I can kill a Cannibal in 1 shot and damage the 2 other behind him. This is too good to be true. But when I was playing a vanguard and some other had the Krysae he just stole all my good kills and I was just bait, THEN i understodd why they nerfed that rifle. But to me, it would have been just fine it they removed the proximity explosion and actually have to HIT the target for the shot to explode.

#154
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UKStory135 wrote...

It is still one of the best weapons to use on the Geth Infiltrator and Geth Engineer. The Geth Infiltrator has ROF, and several damage buffs and proxy mine debuffs that compensate for the nerfing. I used the gun primarily as a tech burst and crowd control device for my Salarian Engineer. That utility is essentially gone with the ROF decrease. The danger of having a character that hits 30%+ harder than the second hardest hitting character and shoots faster than anyone else is that guns that are balanced around him will be awful on everyone else.


Bear with me.  Long reply.  Could be TL:DR.

And therein lies the deeper issue:  Geth and Hunter Mode.  I've seen Geth Infiltrators take down a lot of enemies, with any gun,  due to Tactical Cloak damage bonuses which synergize with the Hunter Mode damage bonuses.  I've only played the Shadow, which I specced for Duration, but what I see from Infiltrators is a brief cloaking, followed by a shot. Proximity Mine is potent stuff too, so if a Geth Infiltrator fully specced for damage is cloaked, fires off a Proximity Mine and then shoots, the enemy is taken down fast. 

I have heard BW nerfed Hunter Mode a little bit.  This indicates that someone in BW sees that the synergy between a Geth Infiltrator's Tactical Cloak and Hunter Mode is too much.  In fact, when I read through Hunter Mode, it gives an accuracy buff as well as tightening the spread of pellets in a shotgun blast.  That means more pellets hit the target, and that's without Smart Choke.  But this had the bad blowback of hurting the Geth Engineer way more than the Geth Infiltrator since Hunter Mode is a shared skill.  And any change to Hunter Mode didn't seem to hurt the Geth Infiltrator very much.  I see mainly Geth Infiltrators in lobbies with the occasional Salarian.  Sadly, I don't see any other Infiltrator except the Shadow, which is a very different Infiltrator and, to me, isn't a part of this discussion.

I don't see many Krysae users, so I don't know a lot about how the gun was in its glory days.  It's not a good way to adjust weapons though when it's the class that uses them that makes them too strong, yet these same weapons are not strong in the hands of others.  Witness the adjustments to the Destroyer and the Typhoon.  Many people couldn't use the Typhoon nearly as well as the Destroyer.  It was a synergy.

Should BW adjust the Geth Infiltrator and rebuff guns like the Krysae?  That's really murky, and I would never call for any nerf, especially these days.  I see a lot fewer Destroyers now, so the impact of these nerfs is significant.

Personally I'm unhappy when any weapon gets nerfed so much that people stop using it.  What's the point in having so many weapons in our inventories when we use so few of them? 

I feel weapons should be much more customized, so that we have a weapons synergy  for many different types of playstyles.  For instance, if you want to be a Drell Vanguard shotgun user, why not make a gun that synergizes with this combination?  And then, say, the same player wants to be a Drell Vanguard Assault rifle user.  Make a cool Assault Rifle that synergizes with the Drell Vanguard.  This way all of our weapons could be viable instead of gathering cyber dust.

 Someone posted the Piranha was OP because everyone can use it.  They can.  It's light, and it's potent.  The nerf was coming, and people saw this.  I'm assuming, and I could be very wrong here, that this same logic was applied to the Krysae.  It seems that the Krysae 'fit a category that isn't one of the regular weapons categories we have, so BW *made* it into a Sniper Rifle as opposed to an Assault Rifle.  That led to Infiltrators being able to create such a synergy with this gun that it became far more potent in their hands than in the hands of any others.  Also, weight is a non-issue to an Infiltrator, but it is a big issue to other classes, so I don't think using weight to balance a weapon is really that great of an idea.

So, the issue of the Krysae is a deeper issue of class skills.  The way Tactical Cloak is set up gives Infiltrators the greatest advantages over any other class.  Cloak is not to be underestimated, and neither are all of the damage buffs.  Hunter Mode... see through walls and its many other buffs.  Put those together and it's a lethal combination.  The only way to break that synergy would be to make Hunter Mode a skill with a cooldown much like Adrenaline Rush.  Or, make Adrenaline Rush like Hunter Mode cuz nerfing characters really sucks.  Allow Marksmanship to be like Hunter Mode.  Give everyone some type of advantage to match the Geth.  And, the halving of shields really isn't a penalty for the Infiltrator, but the sad thing is any adjustment to Hunter Mode on the Infiltrator really hurts the Geth Engineer, and that's just wrong.  I'd probably say Proximity Mine is the elephant in the room no one is discussing.  They ought to be.

Modifié par PKTracer, 14 août 2012 - 04:12 .


#155
Anders028

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 The Krysae is still half decent weapon to use.  It is not junk.  It is a stagger weapon that does comparable danger to the other stagger weapons

#156
Mgamerz

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Rifneno wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

You've clearly never played silver where it still blows everything to pieces. You should get off your high horse once in a while and try looking at where weapons are really balanced.


You suck at math.  Its dps is worse than the locust.  It's AE, but the AE radius is small.  Even in its hayday, I never saw one get a killstreak.

Oh god, THE NUMBERS MUST MEAN THE GUN SUCKS! BUT I NEVER USE IT ANYMORE!


At the same time he posted in another thread "I'm glad it's dead".  Mgamerz.  Always full of crap.  Always.

Excellent reading skills my friend, excellent reading skills.

#157
Lucius Aelius

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That gun was way too good, it may be unfortunate that it had to die, but better that than having it still be alive. Good riddance.

#158
Mazandus

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Aethyl wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Aethyl wrote...

Well, if it makes all the other snipers obsolete, even the BW, what the point?
After all, why use a sniper where you have to aim when you have a scoped rocket launcher?
It was a poorly thought weapon in the first place, a shame because the Turians really need new weapons, and i am personally a big fan of their design.


I'd like a shotgun of turian design more than anything.


SMG and shotgun here. How I would love that.

Binary_Helix 1 wrote...

Aethyl wrote...

Elobart wrote...

Really, what was BW thinking?
If
you check the Krysae backstory, it was designed to be the superweapon,
created by the biggest military force in the galaxy, specifically help
turn the tide against the most bad-ass enemy in existence.
And they put it in a nerf-screaming multiplayer mode?!


Well, if it makes all the other snipers obsolete, even the BW, what the point?
After all, why use a sniper where you have to aim when you have a scoped rocket launcher?
It
was a poorly thought weapon in the first place, a shame because the
Turians really need new weapons, and i am personally a big fan of their
design.


Krysae should never have been available to infiltrators. Nobody complained about the weapon on human soldier for example.


I personally have to admit, the only times I used the Krysae pre nerf was on my Turian soldier, because in combination with the Phaeston, it just looked awesome. i still used it for two matchs only because it was really not my kind of weapon, I prefer the Falcon over it for example.

In the same train of thoughts, the Piranha is a weapon which could also have been restricted to
certain classes, the caster classes, since all the whining comes from it
being used by GI, Destroyer and Turian Soldier.
However, beginning to design class dependant weapons will only bring even more whining on the forum, while restricting the freedom of builds, so it's not the solution either.

But I agree, it's hard to balance a weapon so it can be equally used by all classes, without making it useless or overpowered.





The weight system was the perfect balancer to prevent powerful weapons from being abused, but BW abandonded it in all but name. And, rate of fire increase powers are never going to be balanced in shooting games dependant upon the user's ability to aim. They will always be hilariously OP or equally hilariously underpowered. Look no further than the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Geth Infiltrator. One is garbage. The other is arguably the most powerful character in the game. Aside from the word "Geth" the common element they share is a high rate of fire. One requires the user to remain on target for extended periods of time to deal any kind of reasonable damage, the other can burst down the most dangerous enemies in the game in seconds.

This is also why the heavy pistols, widows and claymore were dominant at launch. ME3 has a very poor system in regards to rate of fire vs power. Its just that as time has gone on, the pendulum has swung in the other direction.

#159
ntrisley

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Ogrinash wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

It wasn't a sniper rifle, it was a grenade launcher with a built in scope. I'm glad it's dead and buried.


It's technically an anti-materiel rifle, not a sniping rifle.

I think they should have just reduced the ammo capacity and kept the damage high; kinda like an AOE Widow, just with less damage.

Now, it's...closer to the Falcon than an anti-materiel rifle.

And if you really want to get technical:
It's still an anti-material rifle. It has a passive modifier against armored targets--which is ostensibly what AMRs are able to engage.

We're not talking about "killing tanks" here.
We're talking about weapons which are designed to engage and put down lightly armored vehicles, targets in hardened cover(ex: bunkers), or in some cases...parked aircraft. These weapons can also be used as sniper rifles, but in some cases...they do that a bit ineffectively.

#160
GallowsPole

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The Krysae was a legal way to rocket glitch basically when it was first introduced. The gun, originally, was way over powered. The only reason people stopped using it, was because they could no longer dominate with it. That's why everyone is now using the Pirahna. Why the Pirahna took a small nerf.

People can argue their ridiculous points all day long. Fact is, if it doesn't top the boards any longer, the crying starts. I use a Paladin, only (sometimes take a Hurricane too, but usually just my pistol), on Platinum. Will others use it? Sure. But if you can wipe out spawns or mobs with a few clicks, why bother. There's plenty of weapons that an be used. They just wont be.

Why I thank the people starting their "I quit" threads because ONE gun can't do it all for them. I get a nice chuckle. A month from now, or two, they'll be quitting Broderlands for all the same reasons.

#161
Haersvaelg

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AoE, stagger, great damage, doesn't require direct hits to do its dmg.

... How could that possibly have been too good?

I don't generally like nerfs, though they unfortunately can be necessary in order to maintain diversity in the viable choices available to be effective, but the krysae is the one big nerf I won't cry over, since it pretty much required the least skill of all weapons released so far to use, while being the most effective at the same time.

#162
Bone3ater

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Yeah, I don't see the problem with the Krysae....oh wait it's absolutely useless, how about that Piranha, facerolling everything with it, ripping an Atlas to pieces in mere seconds. I can see how specifically the Krysae was overpowered.

Seriously, how about some real weapon balance for once?

Modifié par Bone3ater, 14 août 2012 - 04:30 .


#163
atum

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Happier than a wooden fork on a table.

#164
Guest_PKTracer_*

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Bone3ater wrote...

Yeah, I don't see the problem with the Krysae....oh wait it's absolutely useless, how about that Piranha, facerolling everything with it, ripping an Atlas to pieces in mere seconds. I can see how specifically the Krysae was overpowered.

Seriously, how about some real weapon balance for once?


I wonder if BW is done with the Piranha.  It sure wasn't done with the Typhoon until the last nerf.

#165
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Lucius Aelius wrote...

That gun was way too good, it may be unfortunate that it had to die, but better that than having it still be alive. Good riddance.


You watch the video that was posted?  That dude wasn't even specced for damage on Tactical cloak.  That 1.5x Multiplier vs armor is no joke.

#166
DeathScepter

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many people like it as junk status. certain weapons should be reserved for Gold and Platinum runs only. Ultra rares and Rares should be gold and platinum worthy.

#167
mrcanada

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Blaine Kodos wrote...

Gotta love the overreaction when anything people use gets a nerf. It's less useful now, but it's not useless. I still do well enough with it on Gold when I feel like giving it a whirl, and not on Infiltrators or the Destroyer either.

The trick is to know what it's for. It's not a boss-destroying artillery cannon made of nuclear explosions, it's a crowd damaging blanket weapon used for groups and applying ammo powers in a wide range. Of course it's not useful on Platinum, because that's a boss rush. It's for taking out soft targets, not armored everything. Ironic given it's supposed to be an anti-materiel rifle but that's not the point.

It's not dead, it's just brought down a few pegs. There's a difference.


No, it's pretty useless. 

#168
InvincibleHero

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Someone With Mass wrote...

With the Pirahna, people actually have to think, because rushing into a crowd of enemies with it does not automatically mean victory. While I could just point the Krysae at my feet or not scope at all and still kill everything with little to no resistance if it came to that close of an encounter.

Is that fun? No. It's about as fun as the sniper levels in most shooters today where you kill a guy a couple of hundred yards away from you with a high power rifle, who doesn't even know you're there. Except that you can kill him and his reinforcements without worrying about being detected and dealt with in the Krysae's case.

You basically have a rocket launcher and a sniper rifle all in one. If the enemy had a counterpart, it'd be interesting, alas, they don't.

I can tell someone did not use a krysae. If you were mobbed you were dead period. That marauder hitting you in the back will mow you down in 2 seconds while your proximity hits the husk about to grasp or a swarmeryou because its closer.

One shot rarely kills anything but husks unless you're a GI with HM max damage and some amps on anything but bronze. Your second shot then takes over  a second before you can shoot and then the 3 second or so reload.  If you let things get close to you are dead. I can wipe out 6 cannibals in one clip with pirahna on silver if they are close gold maybe 3-4 depending how packed they are. You are dead if you had the krysae pre-nerf if you let things get in on you.

How added to score was it was one of the few (falcon scorpion striker) that could hit things in cover and around cormers allowing kills that other guns cannot. Very occassionally you can kill a couple at a time with the very close splash damage. GPS does it better or pretty much any shotgun with many pellets. It had no headshot bonus hipfire penalties and much more to bring it down. It was not so great on a human engineer with no damage bonuses. Yes it could be quite powerful with the right character spec and equipment in the hands of a skilled player. Now it isn't even worth taking into silver.

I'd like to see everyone making claims it is a platinum viable weapon then use it exclusively for gold and above. IT is so great so why don't you use it? Exactly. I wouldn't use it in bronze as almost any weapon can outperform it now and any game level and that is fact.

Toi people saying I scored X points with it after nerf try ; that with equally skilled and geared players with their GI optimized builds using pirahna or claymore almost any shotgun or even reegar please. You'll be right at the bottom lucky to scrape 60K in gold/plat.

I can make kills with any weapon in the game some just do it a lot quicker and better. The krysae is now in the bottom 10% and that's fact. When most pistols with non-exploding rounds can out DPS you then there is something wrong with it.

#169
ArtGerhardt

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It's still a deadly weapon. It's just not made for single target DPS. Fire it into a crowd of mooks and strip ALL of them down to 4 bars of health in a clip. Let your squad feed on the scraps.

#170
InvincibleHero

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ArtGerhardt wrote...

It's still a deadly weapon. It's just not made for single target DPS. Fire it into a crowd of mooks and strip ALL of them down to 4 bars of health in a clip. Let your squad feed on the scraps.

Or fire a charged GPS shot for the same weight and kill them all and win.

#171
january42

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ArtGerhardt wrote...

It's still a deadly weapon. It's just not made for single target DPS. Fire it into a crowd of mooks and strip ALL of them down to 4 bars of health in a clip. Let your squad feed on the scraps.


The problem is, it doesn't have the area to do this. The burst isn't that big.  It's a sniper version of the falcon now.
With a smaller area, so it's not even that useful.

 It can act a decent delivery system for ammo powers, but it's not worth much as a weapon on it's own. Yeah, you can kill stuff with it....but you can kill stuff way better with something else.

Anyway, do explosions get a penatly against armor? It seems like it.  Even with ammo powers or modules the Striker seems to do very little damage to armor.   Anyway, I think that is where the 1.5 comes from. They were trying to compensate for that a bit.

Modifié par january42, 14 août 2012 - 07:48 .


#172
xcaliz0rz

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Zso_Zso wrote...

xcaliz0rz wrote...

I'm glad you took the time to watch the video but completely neglected the description on that very same video: 'but it still works well after the nerf'.

Luckily for you I was in the mood to prove the people who think this gun is worthless wrong.

 


(GI + weapon gear V + weapon rail III + ammo IV) will make ANY weapon do insane damage.
You could have reached similar score with a shuriken (in fact shuriken has higher DPS, so probably more)

You did not demonstrate that the weapon is good. You demonstrated that GI + max eq. is godly on anything.



I'd like to see you try and outscore me with a Shuriken. 

And I'm sure a weapon that reliably staggers ground units, is easy to aim, can 2-3 shot ALL those same ground units, reliably delivers Ammo Mods for Tech Bursts/explosions, and has a great usable range. Nope, that couldn't possibly be useful at all. You probably think the Falcon is a worthless weapon too.

Complaining about equipment? I didn't realize gearing out on Platinum was a sin. 

Modifié par xcaliz0rz, 14 août 2012 - 08:25 .


#173
Terry Yaki

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It certainly was better than that B.S. called the Kishock.

#174
Cyran127

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I just tried Krysae in Gold and it is pretty crappy. I think I still ended up in 1st, but without the demolisher tossing arc grenades, I probably would've made less of a dent.   It may have been okay if they didn't both lower damage and rate of fire and instead of lowered just one of those. Now it's extremely slow to fire and things that took 3 shots to kill now seem to take 4, and that's including Proximity Mine. I thought the Krysae was fine how it was. Other sniper rifles were ruined when they removed headshots/weak points from bosses, which was incredibly stupid. So now the Krysae is weaker and slower but still has all of the bugs that made it a pain the first place, like only getting 2 shots in a clip or shots not doing damage especially when they hit the invisible destroyed Prime turrets. And now everyone will find a new weapon to cry about being overpowered, which is the most idiotic thing to do in a CO-OP GAME WHERE SCORE MEANS NOTHING!

Modifié par Cyran127, 14 août 2012 - 09:11 .


#175
Seekerr047

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May the Kyrsae stay dead forever!

If it's not dependent on sharpshooting it's not a sniper rifle/