512 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealJayDee]

Bioware can sell whatever they want as Day-1-DLC. I still think selling Javik this way was bad form.

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I get that. All I'm saying is that there's interesting content that expands the universe, and then there's content that's REALLY interesting and expands some REALLY IMPORTANT parts of the universe. Having Javik as day-1 DLC was a tasteless move in my opinion, and I don't hope that Bioware will do anything like that ever again. 

...I agree with Brovikk Rasputin...  ...what has the world come to?  

[Vienuolika]

As long as gamers pay for dlc, devs makes this ****ty stuff. Also bioware/ea isn't charity company, they do everything they can to maximize their profit.

[Grubas]

Vienuolika wrote...

As long as gamers pay for dlc, devs makes this ****ty stuff. Also bioware/ea isn't charity company, they do everything they can to maximize their profit.

Short term profits or long term profits? Also really everything? 

[voteDC]

I think what miffed a lot of people with Mass Effect 3 and its day 1 DLC was that there was nothing for free.

Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II all had Day 1 DLC but also had a decent slice of free content on offer for the single player. Mass Effect 2 had a lot of free content before paid DLC appeared.

We got The Stone Prisoner for free alongside paid DLC in the form of Warden's Keep. Mass Effect 2 offered a large slice of free content in the form of Zaeed and the Normandy Crash Site before paid DLC came along. Dragon Age II offered the Black Emporium for free alongside paid DLC in the form of The Exiled Prince.

Mass Effect 3 on the other hand offered us an online pass for the multiplayer.

Modifié par voteDC, 16 août 2012 - 01:44 .

[macrocarl]

Day 1 DLC is fine. I loved having Javik around. MOAR CONTENT PLEEZ!

[Tipsyfresh]

^ addict.

[Grubas]

Ok guys Javik DLC for free or day 1 patch that fixes all issues? Im asking because bioware reps. obviously dont know what to do with their time, once the game is officialy finished.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

voteDC wrote...

I think what miffed a lot of people with Mass Effect 3 and its day 1 DLC was that there was nothing for free.

Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age II all had Day 1 DLC but also had a decent slice of free content on offer for the single player. Mass Effect 2 had a lot of free content before paid DLC appeared.

We got The Stone Prisoner for free alongside paid DLC in the form of Warden's Keep. Mass Effect 2 offered a large slice of free content in the form of Zaeed and the Normandy Crash Site before paid DLC came along. Dragon Age II offered the Black Emporium for free alongside paid DLC in the form of The Exiled Prince.

Mass Effect 3 on the other hand offered us an online pass for the multiplayer.

The Stone Prisoner was used as an excuse for buying the game new. Warden's Keep, however, was excluded from the disc just to make extra money on the side. Stone Prisoner wasn't a big deal but it was a good incentive to buy new. Warden's Keep should have been on the disc on launch day. No excuses, just greed.

Zaeed and Normandy Crash Site were free, yes. But they were excluded from the disc in an attempt to make the 'Cerberus Network' relevant and entice players to buy the game new. Again, not much wrong with this practice unless you factor in offline users who (to my knowledge) would not be able to recieve the content.

The Black Emporium was excluded from the disc to entice gamers to buy the game new. Exiled Prince was to make extra money on the side on launch day. Again, just more greed.

Does anyone see the pattern yet? EaWare claims that the content you get for buying their games new is "free bonus content". But that's not true. It's simply content that you are already paying for (or would have paid for) that's just being excluded from the disc for one reason or another. If it were on the disc, would it still be viewed as "free bonus content"? I don't think so.

The Day-1 "premium" content is just a really dirty business practice of making more money on the side. It's shameful and cannot be justified at all. Since this "free content" isn't really free at all, I don't see the point of it's existence. In other words, it should just be on the disc on launch day.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 16 août 2012 - 10:00 .

[voteDC]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The Stone Prisoner was used as an excuse for buying the game new. Warden's Keep, however, was excluded from the disc just to make extra money on the side. Stone Prisoner wasn't a big deal but it was a good incentive to buy new. Warden's Keep should have been on the disc on launch day. No excuses, just greed.

Zaeed and Normandy Crash Site were free, yes. But they were excluded from the disc in an attempt to make the 'Cerberus Network' relevant and entice players to buy the game new. Again, not much wrong with this practice unless you factor in offline users who (to my knowledge) would not be able to recieve the content.

The Black Emporium was excluded from the disc to entice gamers to buy the game new. Exiled Prince was to make extra money on the side on launch day. Again, just more greed.

Does anyone see the pattern yet? EaWare claims that the content you get for buying their games new is "free bonus content". But that's not true. It's simply content that you are already paying for (or would have paid for) that's just being excluded from the disc for one reason or another. If it were on the disc, would it still be viewed as "free bonus content"? I don't think so.

The Day-1 "premium" content is just a really dirty business practice of making more money on the side. It's shameful and cannot be justified at all. Since this "free content" isn't really free at all, I don't see the point of it's existence. In other words, it should just be on the disc on launch day.

The difference is in perception.

Offer people something for free when they buy the game and they'll not look at the day 1 DLC, they see the company being generous by giving something away.

Release day 1 DLC and then offer people nothing but an online pass and the perception changes. Now people are thinking that the publisher is just being greedy.

[Han Shot First]

ZombieGambit wrote...

Let's say the actual development cycle for a game is 1 year and 10 months, but it has another 2-3 months before release, which is mostly bug testing etc. Instead of sending all those programmers home, they are instead tasked with creating extra content that will not be on the disc, because the game is already finished, it's just not "golden" yet.

That is how Day 1 DLC is created and instead of waiting 1 or 2 months before releasing it to keep up appearances, they released is as soon as possible, as both a show of continued game support to the fans and to the fans and it makes good business sense because release is when the game is most hyped up and popular.

It's not a perfect system, but it's also not an evil money grubbing one that most ignorant people think it is either.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

voteDC wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The Stone Prisoner was used as an excuse for buying the game new. Warden's Keep, however, was excluded from the disc just to make extra money on the side. Stone Prisoner wasn't a big deal but it was a good incentive to buy new. Warden's Keep should have been on the disc on launch day. No excuses, just greed.

Zaeed and Normandy Crash Site were free, yes. But they were excluded from the disc in an attempt to make the 'Cerberus Network' relevant and entice players to buy the game new. Again, not much wrong with this practice unless you factor in offline users who (to my knowledge) would not be able to recieve the content.

The Black Emporium was excluded from the disc to entice gamers to buy the game new. Exiled Prince was to make extra money on the side on launch day. Again, just more greed.

Does anyone see the pattern yet? EaWare claims that the content you get for buying their games new is "free bonus content". But that's not true. It's simply content that you are already paying for (or would have paid for) that's just being excluded from the disc for one reason or another. If it were on the disc, would it still be viewed as "free bonus content"? I don't think so.

The Day-1 "premium" content is just a really dirty business practice of making more money on the side. It's shameful and cannot be justified at all. Since this "free content" isn't really free at all, I don't see the point of it's existence. In other words, it should just be on the disc on launch day.

The difference is in perception.

Offer people something for free when they buy the game and they'll not look at the day 1 DLC, they see the company being generous by giving something away.

Release day 1 DLC and then offer people nothing but an online pass and the perception changes. Now people are thinking that the publisher is just being greedy.

I've already established that the "free content" is not free at all. Again, that content was taken from the disc, which means it's content you're still paying for despite how the content is distributed.

[element eater]

yeh sure they can sell what they want

but when the games they are putting out lack polish, feel increbly streamlined and just generaly dissapoint its pretty awful they are still willing to sell day 1 dlc. THey should get the game right before selling extra content for it

[JasonDaPsycho]

This is why relationships between devs and gamers are important. (It is certainly not the case for EA and buyers of their products.) The relationship determines the level of trust and how the justification will be spun by fans. In this case, regardless of how you put it, I just can't endorse EA's day 1 DLC's. I understand by the time development begins for said DLC, the core game is almost complete, but the warrant to purchase said DLC still feels "unnecessary" since their dates of release are exactly the same. In other words, they could have included it if they want to, but decided to leave it out. Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole "Prothean dude as squad mate" has been known for quite a while. Half a year before the game's release maybe? They knew they're gonna leave him out of the core game so they could make a DLC.

And comparing to games back then, games nowadays feel so "watered down". There are many parts you could tell that were deliberately left out for DLC's. Yes, those content were not completed by the game's release, but they were set up to be left out so they can be made and sold as "extra" in the future. Look at Retake Omega. Every single one of us saw that coming from a mile away in the game. I'm sure a lot of voice work has been done as well. Then you have GTA IV, which is a perfect, complete game on its own with two DLC's that are actually extra rather than "left out".

I'm not opposed to DLC's. They provide tremendous business potential. Think of them as some from of poor man's expansion. Gamers can spend less to purchase content they're genuinely interested in instead of shelling out 30 bucks for an expansion with a lot of contents they don't need. But given the current gaming industry's extreme corporate greed, it's just hard for me to not expect them to take advantage of it.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Go look at Tekken Tag Tournament 2. Namco knows fan service. And Harada (Director of Tekken) actually replied to me on Twitter and he actually listens to the fans. Free DLC as well, Harada hates paid DLC unlike Capcom.

^Bioware cannot do good fan service any more. They're failing with their 3 recent "achievements" Star Wars TOR (Should have stayed Single Player) Mass Effect 3 and the failure known as Dragon Age 2.

Bioware has lost the magic touch.

[ScotGaymer]

Eek.

I nearly clicked on Chris Priestly's linky until I realised he was ninja-linking IGNorant.

Bad Chris Priestly! No IGN! Bad!

[voteDC]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I've already established that the "free content" is not free at all. Again, that content was taken from the disc, which means it's content you're still paying for despite how the content is distributed.

And again you completely miss the point of it being perception on the part of the buyer.

People will see it as getting something for free with a purchase, especially when the same content is available to purchase at a price for second-hand buyers.

I'm genuinely surprised that you can't see that perception is everything in the case of day 1 DLC. Make people believe they are getting something for 'free' (regardless of where it came from) and they'll ignore that you're selling content on launch day as well.

Modifié par voteDC, 17 août 2012 - 11:34 .

[Ang3l o Xn6]

Unstead of making day 1 DLC, they should finish properly their games ....

NO Microtransactions, NO on disk DLC. NO day one DLC, NO online-pass. We want full games again

[oldag07]

Multiplayer, which is free, takes so much more man hours to develop, create, and maintain than a Story DLC. If anything, Bioware gave the consumer more free content Day 1 than they did for ME1 or 2.

[RinuCZ]

I have a major problem with limited digital content on Day 1. You aren't restricted by production and delivery costs unlike guide books, figures and so on. It's an unreasonable approach and it makes an ilegal copy superior to legally bought one which is a sad business practice. 

As for mission DLC, I like it's possible to buy it later, so it's not like catching Pokemons. On the other hand, they reasoned that they worked on Javik before a deadline for vanilla ME3 but they didn't squeeze in the release plan, so they release it later. If it's the case, why not release it for free? I would rather welcome consistent statements from Day 1.

Aside from that, I agree with OP. Nowadays a new game rarely catches my attention to the "I have to play it now" point.  If I am really interested in the game itself, I'll want to play it immediately => I'll buy it immediately. Otherwise, I'll wait for a price drop and see. If I don't care much about a game, why should I worry about missing additional content?

Assassin's Creed series is a good example. I enjoyed it (except AC1) but it isn't worth $65/50€ to me. Do I feel sorry that I will miss pre-order bonuses? No, I don't care but yes, a company's ranking slips in my mind a bit. Given it also uses an invasive DRM system as many games do now, let's drop the price to $7 (it's a rental service, after all) and then let me to think it over again.

Your games benefit from the fact I like a lot how you write female characters and relationships in general. So far they were polished way better than many others on the market. Last years Mass Effect used to be one and only series I had to have. I gladly payed for it and I was more inclined to buy other games of yours soon after a release day. Because, well, I wanted to suport a work of studio I'd enjoyed so much and thus I was able to overlook negatives as DLC Day 1, Origin or Always-connected-DLC. I had that attitude only towards you and Remedy. Other games, which seems to be slightly interesting, falls into "Steam's 5€ or GOG's full edition priced reasonably" category.

Of course, it's a justified business strategy, it isn't the one you win me with. If you don't create a game content attractive enough or push user's limitations too far, you'll lose my interest. Simple.

Edit: I didn't moan, I explained how my buying habits are affected by a marketing policy.

Modifié par RinuCZ, 17 août 2012 - 10:26 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

voteDC wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I've already established that the "free content" is not free at all. Again, that content was taken from the disc, which means it's content you're still paying for despite how the content is distributed.

And again you completely miss the point of it being perception on the part of the buyer.

People will see it as getting something for free with a purchase, especially when the same content is available to purchase at a price for second-hand buyers.

I'm genuinely surprised that you can't see that perception is everything in the case of day 1 DLC. Make people believe they are getting something for 'free' (regardless of where it came from) and they'll ignore that you're selling content on launch day as well.

I see what you're saying, and you're right about the perception part. My whole point was that they were decieving the consumer. Regardless, if folks can't see through this they deserve to be ripped off. That's how I feel.

[BatmanPWNS]

I miss the good old days of gaming where there was no such things as day 1 dlc.

[AlanC9]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

I see what you're saying, and you're right about the perception part. My whole point was that they were decieving the consumer. Regardless, if folks can't see through this they deserve to be ripped off. That's how I feel.

I still don't see the deceit. Sure, a day 1 DLC could have been on the disc. All kinds of things could have been on the disc, if the company had spent more money and made those things. 

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 août 2012 - 09:02 .

[Firewolf99]

Just read the article: But I didn't get why Chris Priestly posted it. From my reading, it agreed entirely with the OP. Bioware seem to state that they release Day One DLC for the money. I kind of understand the certification argument, but that isn't the argument made in the article at all. And I also agree with the poster on that article: bring back the days of LONGER GAMES, LESS DLC and more EXPANSION PACKS, which add significant amounts of gameplay, as opposed to Arrival which added a 2 hour (if that) long mission for £5. No thanks. I can pick up DA: Awakening for less than £15, and that's practically half of DA:O again.

[royceclemens]

I find it troubling that BioWare does not know the difference between "Wanting Day One DLC" and "Wanting a complete game on Day One."

[SCRS JMFCHUCKIE]

Alternatively, they CAN. From Ashes was Limited Edition Content. If you got the Collector's Edition, you got Javik with the N7 Pack. They offered it as DLC for those who couldn't get the Collector's Edition before it was sold out.