512 réponses à ce sujet

[Lokiwithrope]

Most of Dragon Age Origins' profits were from Day One DLC, and see how that turned out. Everyone got it really.

[AlanC9]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Most of Dragon Age Origins' profits were from Day One DLC, and see how that turned out. Everyone got it really.

Source? It sounds plausible from other statements, but I've never seen an outright statement like that.

[Terror_K]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Most of Dragon Age Origins' profits were from Day One DLC, and see how that turned out. Everyone got it really.

Source? It sounds plausible from other statements, but I've never seen an outright statement like that.

Actually, I believe that the quote in question stated that most of DAO's profits were from DLC as a whole, not solely the Day One DLC. I'll see if I can find the article.

Edit: Whoops, guess I was wrong. It really was apparently the Day 1 stuff alone they meant: www.joystiq.com/2012/08/13/majority-of-profit-from-dragon-age-origins-dlc-was-from-launch/

Modifié par Terror_K, 18 août 2012 - 06:32 .

[Tocquevillain]

1. Interview OP and all subsequent posters about their jobs.
2. Ask them if they'd work for free for fifty hours a week for two months out of a year if it would "make the company's customers more loyal and happy" (these are the two months between when the core game gets manufactured/checked by Microsoft and the release date).
3. End thread because most people responding here are, to put it politely, dumb, and want other people to work for free for their own happiness.

What a pipe dream!

Modifié par Tocquevillain, 18 août 2012 - 06:56 .

[Peregrin25]

Terror_K wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

Most of Dragon Age Origins' profits were from Day One DLC, and see how that turned out. Everyone got it really.

Source? It sounds plausible from other statements, but I've never seen an outright statement like that.

Actually, I believe that the quote in question stated that most of DAO's profits were from DLC as a whole, not solely the Day One DLC. I'll see if I can find the article.

Edit: Whoops, guess I was wrong. It really was apparently the Day 1 stuff alone they meant: www.joystiq.com/2012/08/13/majority-of-profit-from-dragon-age-origins-dlc-was-from-launch/

I don't get how they made money on day 1 DLC. When I bought my copy of DA:O I had a code for DLC and I didn't have to pay a thing for it. I didn't even buy the Collector's Edition. It just came with an insert with the code for Stone Prsioner and Warden's Keep.

On the back of the case it even states that it has codes for DLC downloads. If all original copies had these codes in them upon release. Then how could they have made more profit from DLC aside from the game itself? It just doesn't make any sense. Other DLC didn't release until a couple months later!

Modifié par Peregrin25, 18 août 2012 - 07:29 .

[KBomb]

Tocquevillain wrote...

1. Interview OP and all subsequent posters about their jobs.
2. Ask them if they'd work for free for fifty hours a week for two months out of a year if it would "make the company's customers more loyal and happy" (these are the two months between when the core game gets manufactured/checked by Microsoft and the release date).
3. End thread because most people responding here are, to put it politely, dumb, and want other people to work for free for their own happiness.

What a pipe dream!

You do understand that the crux of the issue at hand is DLC that was already implemented in the game, and then taken out to be sold as DLC? I don’t think the majority is asking for DLC made months later to be free. If it taken from the game for the sole purpose of being sold as DLC, some see it as unethical business practice and with good reason.

[Josh123914]

Honestly I have no problem with Day 1 DLC because during the ~2 months between the game going gold and it launching the programmers can't do anything with the game, but I do have a problem with it when you have to pay for it.

In my opinion Day 1 DLC should either be free or not there at all. Before this generation the dev team would use that time to start on expansion packs or the sequel, but they don't do that anymore.

[Lazengan]

 I have a problem with day one DLC when it is content purposely emitted from release just to generate more revenue

Modifié par Lazengan, 18 août 2012 - 02:11 .

[Snypy]

Josh123914 wrote...

Honestly I have no problem with Day 1 DLC because during the ~2 months between the game going gold and it launching the programmers can't do anything with the game, but I do have a problem with it when you have to pay for it.

In my opinion Day 1 DLC should either be free or not there at all. Before this generation the dev team would use that time to start on expansion packs or the sequel, but they don't do that anymore.

Just because you don't like paying for Day One DLC, the rest of us shouldn't be able to buy it?

[LinksOcarina]

KBomb wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

1. Interview OP and all subsequent posters about their jobs.
2. Ask them if they'd work for free for fifty hours a week for two months out of a year if it would "make the company's customers more loyal and happy" (these are the two months between when the core game gets manufactured/checked by Microsoft and the release date).
3. End thread because most people responding here are, to put it politely, dumb, and want other people to work for free for their own happiness.

What a pipe dream!

You do understand that the crux of the issue at hand is DLC that was already implemented in the game, and then taken out to be sold as DLC? I don’t think the majority is asking for DLC made months later to be free. If it taken from the game for the sole purpose of being sold as DLC, some see it as unethical business practice and with good reason.

I get the message people are trying to say.

The problem is the anger is misplaced here, as it was already shown that the DLC pertaining to Mass Effect 3 was not a part of the final product. 

[Gemini1179]

@LinksOcarina The anger comes from the fact that it actually was, in fact, already shown that the From Ashes DLC was indeed on the retail discs.

[link]http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Mass-Effect-3-Day-One-DLC-Was-Disc-All-40298.html[/link]

Sorry, doing this from a tab and it won't let me properly insert links.

Modifié par Gemini1179, 18 août 2012 - 03:33 .

[Tocquevillain]

"For their Part, EA has issued an official statement that puts the inclusion of Javik in context, sticking to the claim that the DLC was in fact not completed until after the main game went gold:

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

“As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2."

End of story.

Yes, the model was on the disc, so what? The entire mission where you find him, with its associated cutscenes, dialogues, mission planning and design, creation of art assets, or modification of existing ones, not to mention quality assurance testing in house and then Microsoft's own quality testing, had to be done, and that's what you downloaded.

Stop circle jerking, you're just flat out wrong.

[AlanC9]

Peregrin25 wrote...

I don't get how they made money on day 1 DLC. When I bought my copy of DA:O I had a code for DLC and I didn't have to pay a thing for it. I didn't even buy the Collector's Edition. It just came with an insert with the code for Stone Prsioner and Warden's Keep.

You sure about WK? I didn't get a code for that.

That article says that the majority of DLC sales come from the day 1 stuff, not DA:O total profits. Which is still a bit surprising. Of course, Shale was pretty expensive. I didn't think they'd sell any copies at all at that price.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 août 2012 - 04:32 .

[Snypy]

Gemini1179 wrote...

@LinksOcarina The anger comes from the fact that it actually was, in fact, already shown that the From Ashes DLC was indeed on the retail discs.

[link]http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Mass-Effect-3-Day-One-DLC-Was-Disc-All-40298.html[/link]

Sorry, doing this from a tab and it won't let me properly insert links.

The author of that article didn't say what exactly is on the retail disc. There may simply be some voice files related to the From Ashes DLC, which makes sense. BioWare knew that they were going to add Javik as a Day One DLC when ME3 was still in development. Therefore, to save time and money, several dialogues were probably recorded together with the rest of the game. But everything else in that DLC package was most likely created after Mass Effect 3 went for testing.

Edit: a typo.

Modifié par Snypy, 18 août 2012 - 04:52 .

[JaegerBane]

KBomb wrote...
You do understand that the crux of the issue at hand is DLC that was already implemented in the game, and then taken out to be sold as DLC? 

I understand that is the crux. What I don't understand is why people actually take that seriously. Aside from some art and sound assets which were ready months before the game went gold, the idea that the developers actually have time to go around and remove stuff and then QC it to make sure the code still works after removal is laughable.

Teach yourself some code, get a job as a programmer and do some of the wonderful 12 hour days that happen in the closing weeks of delivering a piece of software, and ask yourself whether that sounds realistic. Its the equivalent of saying that cars are built with the full extras package as part of the design and then someone goes round the finished models with a screwdriver frantically pulling out all the bling. It's downright stupid.

Far more likely is that the DLC code was written in advance and planned as a DLC to begin with, so it could be factored into design. As a seperate piece of work its really a no-brainer that it comes with a price tag.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 18 août 2012 - 04:54 .

[JaegerBane]

Gemini1179 wrote...

@LinksOcarina The anger comes from the fact that it actually was, in fact, already shown that the From Ashes DLC was indeed on the retail discs.

I've no doubt something from a Day 1 DLC would be on the disk - what would be the point of intentionally increasing the size of the DLC download?

From Ashes already weighs in as 600+ mb of extra data, are you suggesting that's all just junk designed to trick unsuspecting customers by the dastardly Bioware Evil Empire?

[DukeOfNukes]

Tocquevillain wrote...

Stop circle jerking, you're just flat out wrong.

One could easily say the same to you.

What blows me away here is that there are people actually trying to justify this practice with anything more than "It's an unfortunate reality of the business." It's a loathsome idea, no matter how you put it. I'm not even going to argue whether Javik was content they cut for the purpose of selling DLC. Javik SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE MAIN GAME, if he were included at all. Period, end of story. He was better developed than most your other squadmates, he had extremely important insights into the game and lore.

The fact that he wasn't included in the game is another misstep on BioWares part...and proof that they care more about the bottom line than they do about making a quality product.

What's amazing about ALL of these controversies is that people want SOOO BAD to love BioWare again, but we're actively being taunted and insulted by the company.

"You didn't like the ending? It was just too artistic for you to comprehend."
"You don't like auto-dialog? We did it because you had too much control in the other games, and it decreased the 'flow'."
"You don't like Day 1 DLC? YES YOU DO, DUMMY."

[Zaidra]

 In addition to my previous posts, I'm just going to throw this out there...

Bioware doesn't need to justify the day 1 DLC. (Aside from this, many people have already posted many reasons that justify it. Either way, it happened, so quit your b-tching.)

[Ninja Stan]

Tocquevillain wrote...

"For their Part, EA has issued an official statement that puts the inclusion of Javik in context, sticking to the claim that the DLC was in fact not completed until after the main game went gold:

From Ashes is a 600 MB+ download with all new content, including the mission on Eden Prime, new dialogue options and conversations with Javik, new cinematics, the Prothean weapon, and new appearances for all squad members. All of the above content was completed while the main game was in certification and are not available on the disc.

“As stated previously, in order to seamlessly integrate Javik into the core campaign, certain framework elements and character models needed to be put on disc. We did something similar with Zaeed and Kasumi in Mass Effect 2."

End of story.

Yes, the model was on the disc, so what? The entire mission where you find him, with its associated cutscenes, dialogues, mission planning and design, creation of art assets, or modification of existing ones, not to mention quality assurance testing in house and then Microsoft's own quality testing, had to be done, and that's what you downloaded.

It's almost like that's what I've been telling people in this thread all along, isn't it? Kind of like I know what I'm talking about, having been, you know, part of of the company and being familiar with how things work. Some people, however, prefer to pay less to get more and get upset when the world stubbornly refuses to work the way their fantasies tell them it should. Whether people like it or not, agree with it or not, videogames are made a certain way. It's okay to disagree or to dislike the way it works, but that's a far cry from plugging one's ears and hoping that being louder, more insistent and more indignant will somehow change the way things are done.

[KBomb]

Snypy wrote...
Just because you don't like paying for Day One DLC, the rest of us shouldn't be able to buy it?

That makes no sense. He isn’t asking that day one dlc be free only for him, but for everyone. If it’s free for everyone, why would you still want to fork out cash for it?
 

Also, this shtick about the programmers working so very hard being a justifiable reason why people should buy dlc is arguing semantics. Children in sweatshops work incredibly hard with shamefully long hours and no benefits. The clothes are sold at knockdown prices and people gobble them up. By the logic of the argument, we should support sweatshops and be happy they’re giving us such wonderful prices!
 

Instead of supporting sweatshop business practice, I would rally for better conditions. That’s what most people are doing with day one dlc and Bioware. No one is arguing how hard they work on their product, just the business practice behind it.
 

Edit: The second and third paragraph is not directed at you. Just left here for the purpose of keeping it on one single post.

[AlexMBrennan]

Yes, the model was on the disc, so what? The entire mission where you find him, with its associated cutscenes, dialogues, mission planning and design, creation of art assets, or modification of existing ones, not to mention quality assurance testing in house and then Microsoft's own quality testing, had to be done, and that's what you downloaded.

Well, true, but it's the model you're paying for. You're paying to have Javik as a squadmate. You don't pay for that one mission that's merely an excuse for giving you another squadmate (think Zaeed on Omega)

[JaegerBane]

KBomb wrote...
Also, this shtick about the programmers working so very hard being a justifiable reason why people should buy dlc is arguing semantics. Children in sweatshops work incredibly hard with shamefully long hours and no benefits. The clothes are sold at knockdown prices and people gobble them up. By the logic of the argument, we should support sweatshops and be happy they’re giving us such wonderful prices!

Give me a break. People are saying that DLCs come with a price tag because they required effort to make - trying to use some nonsensical strawman about sweatshops isn't going to change the fact making software is hard, it requires a certain skillset, and someone ultimately has to pay for that effort. Shouting that you should 'get it for free' implies that either the developers work for free (which is basically being ignorant about... well, everything) or that the publishing company absorbs its cost, which only makes sense from a promotional angle (i.e. like what happened with the EC DLC).

Instead of supporting sweatshop business practice, I would rally for better conditions. That’s what most people are doing with day one dlc and Bioware. No one is arguing how hard they work on their product, just the business practice behind it.

What, the business practice of selling things?

I sometimes wonder whether all these self-appointed moral crusaders actually act like this in real life. Do they go down to McDonalds and loudly shout that they expect fries for free because, uh, they want them? Do they wander into Starbucks and simply refuse to pay on the basis that they expect it for free? Do they refuse to pay for their last bag of shopping because of 'business practices aren't to their liking'?

They must get booted out of a lot places.

[Cainne Chapel]

Look I get some people dont like DLC period, or day one DLC, etc etc. There's tons of arguments for and against it.

But you know what? I'm a smart consumer, I make choices based on what I do and dont like. I;ve bought ALL DLC assocaited with ME, why? because I LIKE the content therefore the money is worth it to me. Do I do that for all games? Heavens no, never bought Dawnguard for skyrim (didnt particularly care for skyrim) or the DLC for Reckoning, or much DLC otuside of a few things for Dragons Dogma.

Point being, I could moan that Bioware should of included all DLC for free for ME2 or ME3, but the fact of the matter is, they're DLC takes time and resources to make, it doesnt just come out of the blue and their reasoning for charging is sound, so I dont complain too much, after all they ARE a business and deserve to profit off of their sales.

Its no different than my job of selling things at a higher price than I purchase them for, yet some people call the very basics of that deceiving and dishonest as well, but I shrug and go about my business.

[Cainne Chapel]

Now that is not to say i wouldnt enjoy getting all the DLC for free, hell I'd enjoy getting a lot of freebies in life, but thats not always the case so I dont particularly stress over it.

Bioware has every right to charge for extras (especially non essentials) and so on, just like other companies have every right to release DLC for free or even whole games for free, doesnt mean its exactly always a sustainable model and EVERYONE should follow suit.

[KBomb]

JaegerBane wrote...

What, the business practice of selling things?

I sometimes wonder whether all these self-appointed moral crusaders actually act like this in real life. Do they go down to McDonalds and loudly shout that they expect fries for free because, uh, they want them? Do they wander into Starbucks and simply refuse to pay on the basis that they expect it for free? Do they refuse to pay for their last bag of shopping because of 'business practices aren't to their liking'?

They must get booted out of a lot places.

Hah, talk about a strawman. Pot, meet kettle.
 
Stanley, is Jaeger's response the kind of loud and indignant manner you were talking about?


And to answer your question, if I were paying sixty bucks for a hambuger, no. I wouldn’t demand free fries. If I were paying sixty bucks for a combo meal and told that the fry cook only had enough fries made for half the order, and to get the rest of the fries I would have to pay extra for his effort of frying the rest—yeah. I’d want it to be free.


I guess that’s the kind of conscientious consumer I am. You know, the moral crusading kind as opposed to the kind who will throw their money at anyone for any reason with glee in their eye—the kind who has opened the door for microtransactions and day one dlc.