512 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

DukeOfNukes wrote...


That's debatable. DLC is required to "Complete" Mass Effect 2, because without Arrival and LotSB, Mass Effect 3 makes even less sense than it already did. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I bought both, and don't regret either one...as they were both better than the main game content. But the fact remains, I don't get all of Shepards story without it.

I didn't work for NASA in the 1960's either, but I still believe man has been on the moon. Proof has been mentioned several times. Javik was included in the leaked script from nearly a half year before the finalized product. Rumours were going around for as long as I can remember about a Prothean squadmate. You can enable Javik by changing 2 lines in the games code (admittedly, probably a glitchy, unbalanced version of him.) You're right, I don't have any 100%, clear cut evidence that Javik was cut for the expressed purpose of selling him off...but you don't have any 100% clear cut evidence that he wasn't. I'm not burning BioWare at the stake here, I'm asking that they consider the implications of their decisions.

So...did that DLC prevent you from finishing the Suicide mission? Or are you talking about the story of Mass Effect 2?

Because last I checked, most DLC for RPGs is story driven, and complete sidequests. For example, the New Vegas DLC for Obsidians Fallout game were all extra bits. You had the gunrunners arsenal which added a ton of weapons, Old World Blues, Dead Money, and Honest Hearts which were story-driven, campaign modules basically in the setting, and Lonesome Road, which is tied to the storyline of Fallout: New Vegas, but in a sort of subliminal way. None of which is needed to beat the game and get an ending to it. 

And that is one example. with the exception of the Extended Cut for ME 3, Broken Steel for Fallout 3, and General Knoxx for Borderlands, no dlc for an RPG has been necessary for the game that was made. The above three extended the game in it's current form, because they directly connected to the ending of those games and changed it.

So your examples above are good DLCs, but they are unecessary. Knowing Liara is the Shadow Broker now when she can explain to you  what she did off-screen to rescue Feron, or what you, as Shepard did that got you grounded early on with Anderson, works around that issue. Having it makes it gravy and more complete. Not having it does not affect a thing since they tell you what happened. 

As for 100% proof that someone is right or not, well, here it goes.

There are two things that you need to remember. First, is the pre-order bonuses. About a year before Mass Effect 3 was to come out, they showed us the pre-order for the collectors edition, which included all the little bits plus an secret mission and character, that remained classified for the longest time. 

This is about a year before the game comes out, early 2011. 

We also have previous precedence. BioWare has included DLC characters for every game since Jade Empire, with the exception of Mass Effect. You had the Monk Zhang, Shale, Zaeed, and Sebastian. You also had Kasumi, who was incomplete and decided to make her a DLC character to finish her up. The rumor also goes that Shale was supposed to be a character as well, but was cut towards the end and made free DLC because they finally got her working correctly for the game. 

So, with previous precedence, and a promise for pre-orders, who would be good DLC? Here is my theory, and the facts support it. 

Javik was an idea they had that was cut sometime after the leaked script, but revamped to fit the new story, by making it a DLC character. They decided to keep it under wraps for the pre-orders, and made sure to put assets into the disk (a common practice in most games, mind you) to cut down on download costs. Such assets include functionality on the menu screen, combat avatars, a majority of his dialogue, and so forth. This is why it was so easy to "unlock him," that is the bare of the character, since Javik is only usable in combat, and has no personality outside of it. And let's face it, thats not the character as a whole. 

Here is what we know is added from the DLC. 1. Eden Prime and the mission with Javik there, was primarily built right after Mass Effect 3 went gold. the loophole in the development codes let's them get away with that without a lengthy certification, and since it is a DLC it can get certified and rated after Mass Effect 3 is ready to ship. 

We also know that conversational dialogue between Javik, Shepard and Liara comes from From Ashes, as well as cut-scenes involving javik elsewhere in-game, such as the Citadel, the final mission, and so forth.

So based off of the timeline of evidence here, there is more in favor of javik being cut content re-shaped as DLC, versus purposeful content cut to be made as DLC. Of course, no proof. But at the same vein, this is standard practice in the industry outside of Capcom, which got lambasted over it and has vowed not to do it again. Plus, we need to remember that BioWare has done this before, Shale being the primary example above. 

But yeah, thats my two cents on this all. To be honest, it again is irrelevent. The sad fact is that the myth is more popular than the truth, irregardless of what the truth is. 

[ElementL09]

Its not justifiable. From a financial perspective, you make more money on launch, but that still doesn't make Day 1 DLC justifiable.

When a game releases, people expect the full game, not a game thats release alongside with paid Day 1 DLC. A standard and expensive 60$ game could reasonable go for 70$ because consumers feel like there missing a part of the game that developers decided to charge them for.

Again, I don't think Bioware/EA is thinking from a consumer standpoint. Day 1 DLC isn't that bad if its free at launch for new copies of the game, development time was spent on making additional content for players before release and in turn, shouldn't charge players additionally for making that day 1 purchase of the title.

[AsheraII]

ElementL09 wrote...

Its not justifiable. From a financial perspective, you make more money on launch, but that still doesn't make Day 1 DLC justifiable.

When a game releases, people expect the full game, not a game thats release alongside with paid Day 1 DLC. A standard and expensive 60$ game could reasonable go for 70$ because consumers feel like there missing a part of the game that developers decided to charge them for.

Again, I don't think Bioware/EA is thinking from a consumer standpoint. Day 1 DLC isn't that bad if its free at launch for new copies of the game, development time was spent on making additional content for players before release and in turn, shouldn't charge players additionally for making that day 1 purchase of the title.

The From Ashes DLC was free. At least for me and a few hundred thousand other people it was.
People who didn't order the N7 edition simply got the opportunity to aquire part of its contents through different means.

[ElementL09]

AsheraII wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

Its not justifiable. From a financial perspective, you make more money on launch, but that still doesn't make Day 1 DLC justifiable.

When a game releases, people expect the full game, not a game thats release alongside with paid Day 1 DLC. A standard and expensive 60$ game could reasonable go for 70$ because consumers feel like there missing a part of the game that developers decided to charge them for.

Again, I don't think Bioware/EA is thinking from a consumer standpoint. Day 1 DLC isn't that bad if its free at launch for new copies of the game, development time was spent on making additional content for players before release and in turn, shouldn't charge players additionally for making that day 1 purchase of the title.

The From Ashes DLC was free. At least for me and a few hundred thousand other people it was.
People who didn't order the N7 edition simply got the opportunity to aquire part of its contents through different means.

It was in limited quantities and not everyone could get it.  Also I think its fair estimate to say that the contents in the N7 edition more the make up the 20$ difference without From Ashes.

[Yate]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 20 août 2012 - 07:32 .

[Yate]

AsheraII wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

Its not justifiable. From a financial perspective, you make more money on launch, but that still doesn't make Day 1 DLC justifiable.

When a game releases, people expect the full game, not a game thats release alongside with paid Day 1 DLC. A standard and expensive 60$ game could reasonable go for 70$ because consumers feel like there missing a part of the game that developers decided to charge them for.

Again, I don't think Bioware/EA is thinking from a consumer standpoint. Day 1 DLC isn't that bad if its free at launch for new copies of the game, development time was spent on making additional content for players before release and in turn, shouldn't charge players additionally for making that day 1 purchase of the title.

The From Ashes DLC was free. At least for me and a few hundred thousand other people it was.
People who didn't order the N7 edition simply got the opportunity to aquire part of its contents through different means.

hahahahhahahahhaa

[Shatterhand1701]

Yate wrote...

lotta loyal brainwashed fanboys in here...

face it morons, BW is now EA, and EA only cares about the short-term gain, i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ahh, yes...the "fanboy" argument; the last refuge of someone who isn't getting instant agreement from everyone and has to resort to the sort of namecalling one usually expects on an elementary school playground.

Well done.

This community is poisoned.  Whether it's by EA/Bioware or self-inflicted is going to be perpetually open to argument, because all that ever happens here.  And spare me the "Welcome to a gaming community, that's what happens" argument; I've not seen anywhere NEAR the amount of greedy, venom-filled nastiness on other gaming community forums that has spread here like mold in a leaky basement.

I'm done with the lot of you.  I'll continue to support EA/Bioware, but its so-called community can...ugh, never mind.

[LinksOcarina]

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

Yate wrote...

lotta loyal brainwashed fanboys in here...

face it morons, BW is now EA, and EA only cares about the short-term gain, i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ahh, yes...the "fanboy" argument; the last refuge of someone who isn't getting instant agreement from everyone and has to resort to the sort of namecalling one usually expects on an elementary school playground.

Well done.

This community is poisoned.  Whether it's by EA/Bioware or self-inflicted is going to be perpetually open to argument, because all that ever happens here.  And spare me the "Welcome to a gaming community, that's what happens" argument; I've not seen anywhere NEAR the amount of greedy, venom-filled nastiness on other gaming community forums that has spread here like mold in a leaky basement.

I'm done with the lot of you.  I'll continue to support EA/Bioware, but its so-called community can...ugh, never mind.

To be honest though, this is mostly due to your assessment above, and the fact that RPG fans are the hardest of the core. It is a sub-culture thing that frankly, annoys me. But we need some Sylvus's in this world to be a voice of things, agree or disagree. 

the difference is we need them to be coherent, thoughtful voices who are open to opinions, and not drowning out those who go against them. Hell, I struggle with that too because i'm sick of the entitlement and the teacher in me wants the truth to come out, but hey, baby steps.

[Shatterhand1701]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

Yate wrote...

lotta loyal brainwashed fanboys in here...

face it morons, BW is now EA, and EA only cares about the short-term gain, i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ahh, yes...the "fanboy" argument; the last refuge of someone who isn't getting instant agreement from everyone and has to resort to the sort of namecalling one usually expects on an elementary school playground.

Well done.

This community is poisoned.  Whether it's by EA/Bioware or self-inflicted is going to be perpetually open to argument, because all that ever happens here.  And spare me the "Welcome to a gaming community, that's what happens" argument; I've not seen anywhere NEAR the amount of greedy, venom-filled nastiness on other gaming community forums that has spread here like mold in a leaky basement.

I'm done with the lot of you.  I'll continue to support EA/Bioware, but its so-called community can...ugh, never mind.

To be honest though, this is mostly due to your assessment above, and the fact that RPG fans are the hardest of the core. It is a sub-culture thing that frankly, annoys me. But we need some Sylvus's in this world to be a voice of things, agree or disagree. 

the difference is we need them to be coherent, thoughtful voices who are open to opinions, and not drowning out those who go against them. Hell, I struggle with that too because i'm sick of the entitlement and the teacher in me wants the truth to come out, but hey, baby steps.

You'll never get that here.  "Coherent, thoughtful voices who are open to opinions" has never, nor will it ever, work here at the BSN.  The community, especially since ME3, is all about "what I say is fact and if you disagree, you're not only wrong, but you're a *insert mild-to-vicious derogatory term here*, too".  Stir that up with a liberal dose of "I didn't get what I wanted when I wanted it, therefore EA/Bioware = FAIL", and you've got the consensus of this community.  It's a lost cause here.  If it's not about the endings, it's about DLC.  If it's not about either of those, just shake a Magic 8-Ball and the community will find something else to argue bitterly about or blame Bioware for.  Bioware isn't saintly; they're not innocent by any means of grievous errors in judgment, but that doesn't begin to excuse the BSN community for their atrocious behavior of late.

I could almost excuse the endings fiasco because for many people it was about what the Mass Effect series has meant to the players.  They wanted endings that fit the characters and the level of storytelling they'd come to expect from Bioware.  But then BW gives them the Extended Cut for free when they could've just as easily stood their ground and done nothing, and still people complain.  For some, they're even MORE unhappy.  And now this argument about Day-1 DLC...AGAIN, nearly seven months after ME3's release.  And you know bloody well this wouldn't be an issue in the slightest if BW had offered "From Ashes" for free.  Everyone would be right as rain about the whole thing if they didn't have to spend a dime, despite how quickly they are to use Javik's importance to the story, etc. as ammo for their arguments.  One wonders how important everyone would consider Javik if the DLC was free.  Well, it doesn't matter anyway, does it?  I'll be wrong no matter what I say, because I'm not towing the line.

I've been here since ME2, and it has never been as soul-crushing here as it is now.  And what's more sickening is that people use their alleged love of the Mass Effect franchise as a wall of cover from which to fire their spittle-flecked rages, that same franchise they're all too eager to dump all over if Bioware doesn't satisfy them.

The jadedness and bitterness of this community is as damning to Bioware/Mass Effect's future as anything EA or any other corporate entity could machinate. 

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

Modifié par Shatterhand1701, 20 août 2012 - 02:31 .

[DukeOfNukes]

You know, I can tell you're unbiased because you're repeatedly using words to describe the community like "Greedy", "entitled", "soul-crushing", "bitter", "poisoned", etc.

I bought the CE of all 3 ME games, both DA, and even SWTOR. I've spent money on strategy guides, art books, DLC, I have a large collection of ME lithographs, I STILL try to convince everyone I meet to play ME1. I've been a die hard fan of BioWare since I played KOTOR nearly 10 years ago, and to many of the people here, that makes me late to the party. I'm not telling you this because I feel I "deserve" anything from them, I'm telling you because I reward good work. I will purchase whatever they push out, so long as the quality is there.

I feel the quality is going downhill since EA has bought them out...and many of their long term fans would agree. Their priorities have CLEARLY shifted...if nothing else. They are the ones claiming humility right now..."We are but poor, starving artists."

Day 1 DLC MIGHT be an unfortunate but necessary part of the current video game industry...but that's not what Melo said. He said that fans clamour for it...that we demand it. As a consumer, I find it offensive. As someone with a degree in Sociology, I find it to be fallacy. Just because I give them money, doesn't mean I love everything they do.

I recently was forced to agree to Steams new terms of service, otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to play the games I'd already purchased from them. That doesn't mean I hate class action lawsuits, it just means I want to play the games I've already paid for.

[LinksOcarina]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Day 1 DLC MIGHT be an unfortunate but necessary part of the current video game industry...but that's not what Melo said. He said that fans clamour for it...that we demand it. As a consumer, I find it offensive. As someone with a degree in Sociology, I find it to be fallacy. Just because I give them money, doesn't mean I love everything they do.

I recently was forced to agree to Steams new terms of service, otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to play the games I'd already purchased from them. That doesn't mean I hate class action lawsuits, it just means I want to play the games I've already paid for.

Except that it's not, because economically it justifies the creation of more DLC, irregardless of fan's opinion. It's basically the George Lucas affect, you market the content into a huge, expanded world, and you sell said content and have others bring their own interpretations, ideas, art into the mix. Market that too, make more money, franchise born.

It is actually good buisness sense, especially considering the changing climate of gaming on a historical scope. Since 2000 gaming has shifted to console titles, and has also shifted gears towards inter-connectivity through online features. We have also seen new avenues for monetization, indie titles, Steam and DRM free downloads, internet subscription services and yes, DLC to extend a game's lifespan. 

The consumer can find it as offensive as he likes, but its far from a fallacy because their opinion is irrelevent to the effect. In essence, buying the DLC, buying the books, the comics, the games, and so forth allows them to continue to make DLC, comics, books and so forth as they see fit because the consumer is a creature of habit, and soak up the content like a sponge like they did last time. The consumer can voice their opinion but it won't change anything, unless if they stop buying the said product. And the sad truth is, fans always will demand for it, because they are fans.

They will buy the next Mass Effect game, they will buy the Leviathan DLC, and they will continue to come here, and either praise, bash, or be indifferent about the people in the trenches. It is what fan's do. I will bet money that Leviathan will be released and have strong sales, and people will praise it for it being fun, or bemoan the fact it is missing something or causes a retcon or some other BS excuse to bash it, justifiable or not. That is what fans do, they will moan about it being ten bucks, but buy it anyway because they want more. Others will not buy it, others will be first time DLC buyers. 

But everyone who buys it justifies DLC, and everyone who buys it is in effect, giving BioWare the proof of what they want, that  "clamouring for content" that is so elusive it seems, they shall provide it for those who do demand it, wether they like it, or not. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 20 août 2012 - 03:23 .

[Shatterhand1701]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

You know, I can tell you're unbiased because you're repeatedly using words to describe the community like "Greedy", "entitled", "soul-crushing", "bitter", "poisoned", etc.

Oh, I've stopped trying to remain unbiased...that ship has sailed.  I'm fully against the actions and attitudes of the BSN community now, and I don't plan on being shy about it anymore.  The content of this thread and the "endings are still BS" thread in the Story & Campaign section have planted me firmly in this position, and at this point it'll take a Herculean effort to unroot me.

[Onishiro]

I personally do not mind DLC in anyway, even day one DLC, what bothers me is the lack of fixing exsisting problems with the game. Though the console manufacturers push to reduce the number of patches, this still does not explain the gross number of issues exsisting that should have been fixed... FIVE TO SIX months ago.

[DanielsMind]

[spam posts removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 20 août 2012 - 07:35 .

[TAlTAl]

butthurt. butthurt everywhere

[DukeOfNukes]

LinksOcarina wrote...

The consumer can find it as offensive as he likes, but its far from a fallacy because their opinion is irrelevent to the effect.

You misunderstand me. The fallacy isn't in their business plan, it's in the assumptions he is making about Day 1 DLC. He is saying "People bought it, so they must love it." People buy things all the time that they don't enjoy...especially when it comes to gaming.

As far as their policies...I would argue their overall effectiveness. I tend to believe they are short sighted. Sure, they made a lot of money on Day 1 DLC, but they surely chased off a few customers permanantly by doing so. I have more than a few friends that have sworn off BioWare altogether after everything...and not just the ending. One of my closest friends didn't get past Sur'Kesh...and I have to admit, I had a hard time with it myself.

Basically, they might make a little bit of money right now, but at a certain point, they'll begin to lose customers forever. They haven't lost my business, but they have lost my interest. I'm not going to say I'll never buy another of their games or DLC again...but I used to pre-order and purchase everything BioWare the second it was released. That will no longer be the case.

[Snypy]

DanielsMind wrote...

this thread is pointless, just like my post.

Yeah.

This whole discussion is getting absolutely nowhere. Completely pointless to give reasons why the Day One DLC is justifiable. Because no matter how convincing our arguments are, some people are simply unwilling or perhaps unable to accept facts, that's it. They're saying the same thing over and over again, without reading previous pages to actually notice that their points have already been discussed.

lotta loyal brainwashed fanboys in here...
face it morons, BW is now EA, and EA only cares about the short-term gain, i.e. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Give me a break with this... 

Modifié par Snypy, 20 août 2012 - 08:18 .

[LinksOcarina]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

The consumer can find it as offensive as he likes, but its far from a fallacy because their opinion is irrelevent to the effect.

You misunderstand me. The fallacy isn't in their business plan, it's in the assumptions he is making about Day 1 DLC. He is saying "People bought it, so they must love it." People buy things all the time that they don't enjoy...especially when it comes to gaming.

As far as their policies...I would argue their overall effectiveness. I tend to believe they are short sighted. Sure, they made a lot of money on Day 1 DLC, but they surely chased off a few customers permanantly by doing so. I have more than a few friends that have sworn off BioWare altogether after everything...and not just the ending. One of my closest friends didn't get past Sur'Kesh...and I have to admit, I had a hard time with it myself.

Basically, they might make a little bit of money right now, but at a certain point, they'll begin to lose customers forever. They haven't lost my business, but they have lost my interest. I'm not going to say I'll never buy another of their games or DLC again...but I used to pre-order and purchase everything BioWare the second it was released. That will no longer be the case.

Of course they may lose customers later, that is why companies try to reinvent themselves. Remember five years ago when EA was pretty much devoid of any creativity? Their partners program helped in diversing their portfolio, and they have restructured the company into divisions to divide the work-load. the DLC, project ten dollar, free online passes for new buyers,all of this is part of the game of reinvention. 

Pre-orders and loyalty like that is something that flows though. A lot of people cited that Mass Effect 3 was the first game they ever pre-ordered, which for me personally is a strange thing because I tend to pre-order 3-5 games per year. But that also is a personal preference. I mean, the reason they put so much incentive on pre-orders is not only to placate collectors (like me, even though most collector stuff is non-valuable because of mass production) and to try and get as many day one buys as possible.  

I guess my point is that it kind goes in flux all the time, like sand through an hourglass. Overall EA will recoup if they keep reinventing and offering good deals to consumers, so this myth of them doing short-term gains is kind of strange, when a bigger example would be Activision, which has been doing it for nearly seven years but has little to show for it, other than impressive numbers for one game series. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 20 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[Justin2k]

Two thoughts.

Firstly, From Ashes is far better than people give it credit for, as long as you include Javik as part of the DLC and use him.  I used him, and the laser beam rifle throughout the entire game, and it was great.  Yes, the mission sucks, but thats not what the DLC was.. he was the DLC.

Secondly,  I don't care that it comes out on day one.  The only issue I have with Javik, is that he didn't seem like DLC characters such as Kasumi and Zaeed.  He had more conversations and important parts than many of the other characters.  Vega seemed more like a DLC character than Javik.  It's almost certain that Javik was planned right from the beginning to be part of the game.

So, in essence, while I don't care if you give me DLC on the day of release or three months later, cutting content from the game to re-sell as DLC is bad business, and this is evident that is what Bioware did, whatever they tell you.  If Vega was the DLC, they'd get away with it, given he's a weaker character that is more of an afterthought but Javik, the last prothean?  He sells better.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

You know, I can tell you're unbiased because you're repeatedly using words to describe the community like "Greedy", "entitled", "soul-crushing", "bitter", "poisoned", etc.

I bought the CE of all 3 ME games, both DA, and even SWTOR. I've spent money on strategy guides, art books, DLC, I have a large collection of ME lithographs, I STILL try to convince everyone I meet to play ME1. I've been a die hard fan of BioWare since I played KOTOR nearly 10 years ago, and to many of the people here, that makes me late to the party. I'm not telling you this because I feel I "deserve" anything from them, I'm telling you because I reward good work. I will purchase whatever they push out, so long as the quality is there.

I feel the quality is going downhill since EA has bought them out...and many of their long term fans would agree. Their priorities have CLEARLY shifted...if nothing else. They are the ones claiming humility right now..."We are but poor, starving artists."

Day 1 DLC MIGHT be an unfortunate but necessary part of the current video game industry...but that's not what Melo said. He said that fans clamour for it...that we demand it. As a consumer, I find it offensive. As someone with a degree in Sociology, I find it to be fallacy. Just because I give them money, doesn't mean I love everything they do.

I recently was forced to agree to Steams new terms of service, otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to play the games I'd already purchased from them. That doesn't mean I hate class action lawsuits, it just means I want to play the games I've already paid for.

It's refreshing to see someone with sense on BSN.

I've seen BioWare do this before. They try to put the blame on the fans instead of themselves. I don't think I've ever seen the company show humility. One could say that the Extended Cut was a form of humility. Personally, I think it was just a response to the epic backlash that soon followed the game's release.

I haven't forgotten the interviews with Mike Laidlaw blaming the fans for not liking DA2. He was always on the defensive in those interviews and it would have been a nice change of pace for him to admit the game has many flaws.

It's one thing when a company or person can't admit they made some mistakes. It's quite another to blame your fans for those mistakes. I take it personally, and if this sort of thing continues after the release of DA3 I will no longer be purchasing anything BioWare and urge others to do the same.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 20 août 2012 - 05:44 .

[HNNNNNNG]

I like dlc. I have every single mass effect dlc to-date (except for revelations).

But the only day-1 dlc should be bonus stuff from collector's edition/pre-order.

Nothing else.

[LinksOcarina]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

DukeOfNukes wrote...

You know, I can tell you're unbiased because you're repeatedly using words to describe the community like "Greedy", "entitled", "soul-crushing", "bitter", "poisoned", etc.

I bought the CE of all 3 ME games, both DA, and even SWTOR. I've spent money on strategy guides, art books, DLC, I have a large collection of ME lithographs, I STILL try to convince everyone I meet to play ME1. I've been a die hard fan of BioWare since I played KOTOR nearly 10 years ago, and to many of the people here, that makes me late to the party. I'm not telling you this because I feel I "deserve" anything from them, I'm telling you because I reward good work. I will purchase whatever they push out, so long as the quality is there.

I feel the quality is going downhill since EA has bought them out...and many of their long term fans would agree. Their priorities have CLEARLY shifted...if nothing else. They are the ones claiming humility right now..."We are but poor, starving artists."

Day 1 DLC MIGHT be an unfortunate but necessary part of the current video game industry...but that's not what Melo said. He said that fans clamour for it...that we demand it. As a consumer, I find it offensive. As someone with a degree in Sociology, I find it to be fallacy. Just because I give them money, doesn't mean I love everything they do.

I recently was forced to agree to Steams new terms of service, otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to play the games I'd already purchased from them. That doesn't mean I hate class action lawsuits, it just means I want to play the games I've already paid for.

It's refreshing to see someone with sense on BSN.

I've seen BioWare do this before. They try to put the blame on the fans instead of themselves. I don't think I've ever seen the company show humility. One could say that the Extended Cut was a form of humility. Personally, I think it was just a response to the epic backlash that soon followed the game's release.

I haven't forgotten the interviews with Mike Laidlaw blaming the fans for not liking DA2. He was always on the defensive in those interviews and it would have been a nice change of pace for him to admit the game has many flaws.

It's one thing when a company or person can't admit they made some mistakes. It's quite another to blame your fans for those mistakes. I take it personally, and if this sort of thing continues after the release of DA3 I will no longer be purchasing anything BioWare and urge others to do the same.

no one will blame themselves for mistakes, its a prideful thing, especially if you worked hard to make something for fans. That is BioWares flaw.

But no one is innocent on the fan side either, thats the problem too, the fans are just as bad in most instances, especially if you have been paying attention to the **** going on here latey. 

[The Angry One]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 20 août 2012 - 07:36 .

[JaegerBane]

Tipsyfresh wrote...

And jaeger, you're talking about fairies but you're perplexed when other people use hyperbole.

Reveals a lot about u.

If you'd spent more time reading the post and less time trying to craft insults, you'd know that the mention of pixies had nothing to do with the specifics of this thread. Since you were the only one who didn't seem to understand what my point was, I'll leave it to you to figure out. Its really not hard.

Tipsyfresh wrote...

Have you heard of a time before dlc?
Also why does his belief imply that? This is why things like BBB exist
and other consumer protection agencies, to reduce exploitation,
manipulation of a market. If it doesn't make sense to you call your
congressman.

It implies it because Atakuma is arbitrarily deciding what constitutes the product he is buying, and he is expecting further content without an increase in cost. No business on earth (barring bespoke contractors) work on this basis, so the expectation doesn't have any basis.

And yes, I dod remember a time before DLC. They were called expansion packs back then. I great number of them started development before the main game was complete too.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 20 août 2012 - 06:09 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

LinksOcarina wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

DukeOfNukes wrote...

You know, I can tell you're unbiased because you're repeatedly using words to describe the community like "Greedy", "entitled", "soul-crushing", "bitter", "poisoned", etc.

I bought the CE of all 3 ME games, both DA, and even SWTOR. I've spent money on strategy guides, art books, DLC, I have a large collection of ME lithographs, I STILL try to convince everyone I meet to play ME1. I've been a die hard fan of BioWare since I played KOTOR nearly 10 years ago, and to many of the people here, that makes me late to the party. I'm not telling you this because I feel I "deserve" anything from them, I'm telling you because I reward good work. I will purchase whatever they push out, so long as the quality is there.

I feel the quality is going downhill since EA has bought them out...and many of their long term fans would agree. Their priorities have CLEARLY shifted...if nothing else. They are the ones claiming humility right now..."We are but poor, starving artists."

Day 1 DLC MIGHT be an unfortunate but necessary part of the current video game industry...but that's not what Melo said. He said that fans clamour for it...that we demand it. As a consumer, I find it offensive. As someone with a degree in Sociology, I find it to be fallacy. Just because I give them money, doesn't mean I love everything they do.

I recently was forced to agree to Steams new terms of service, otherwise I wouldn't be allowed to play the games I'd already purchased from them. That doesn't mean I hate class action lawsuits, it just means I want to play the games I've already paid for.

It's refreshing to see someone with sense on BSN.

I've seen BioWare do this before. They try to put the blame on the fans instead of themselves. I don't think I've ever seen the company show humility. One could say that the Extended Cut was a form of humility. Personally, I think it was just a response to the epic backlash that soon followed the game's release.

I haven't forgotten the interviews with Mike Laidlaw blaming the fans for not liking DA2. He was always on the defensive in those interviews and it would have been a nice change of pace for him to admit the game has many flaws.

It's one thing when a company or person can't admit they made some mistakes. It's quite another to blame your fans for those mistakes. I take it personally, and if this sort of thing continues after the release of DA3 I will no longer be purchasing anything BioWare and urge others to do the same.

no one will blame themselves for mistakes, its a prideful thing, especially if you worked hard to make something for fans. That is BioWares flaw.

But no one is innocent on the fan side either, thats the problem too, the fans are just as bad in most instances, especially if you have been paying attention to the **** going on here latey. 

I would blame myself and admit my failures if I failed. If I was involved with a team, I wouldn't speak for the whole team, but I could speak for myself, especially if I was in a leadership position. By admitting you made a mistake, you gain trust from your fans. By not doing so, you only gain suspicion and contempt.

How are the fans 'just as bad'? Did they make a product that didn't live up to expectations and then blame others for not enjoying it? Are they all behind day 1 DLC and monetising consumers? I don't think so.

The backlash (which I assume is what you're talking about) towards the company is only a result of the company's failures and a complete absence of humility when confronted with them. It also might have something to do with the company blaming it's fans, but that's just a guess.