512 réponses à ce sujet

[casamar]

Extra Credtis made an entire episode about this specific piece of DLC. It's worth a watch

(opens in new window)

[JaegerBane]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I don't care if it were made two months, two weeks or two days before the release of the game. Charging people for extra content on day-1 feels like a slap to the face, no matter how hard you try to sugarcoat it.

People keep saying this, but is this honestly the attitude you take when you purchase extra toppings for a pizza, or a cookie with your coffee? Do you really bang on about being 'slapped in the face' when you're expected to pay extra cash for extra stuff?

[Ninja Stan]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I don't care if it were made two months, two weeks or two days before the release of the game. Charging people for extra content on day-1 feels like a slap to the face, no matter how hard you try to sugarcoat it.

Given that conclusion, where does the consumer's right to choose fit in? In what way is the consumer's power affected? Regardless of whether you, as a consumer, like the day 1 DLC or not, who ultimately makes the purchasing decision?

In my opinion, placing all the blame on the publisher/developer is a way of abdicating your right as a consumer to make educated purchasing decisions and taking responsibility for it.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I don't care if it were made two months, two weeks or two days before the release of the game. Charging people for extra content on day-1 feels like a slap to the face, no matter how hard you try to sugarcoat it.

Given that conclusion, where does the consumer's right to choose fit in? In what way is the consumer's power affected? Regardless of whether you, as a consumer, like the day 1 DLC or not, who ultimately makes the purchasing decision?

In my opinion, placing all the blame on the publisher/developer is a way of abdicating your right as a consumer to make educated purchasing decisions and taking responsibility for it.

I'm not placing all the blame on the publishers/devs. If gamers didn't buy this stuff, it wouldn't exist. I just find it sad that entire squadmates are being sold as day-1 DLC, when clearly in ME3's case, the content was developed at the same time as the rest of the game. Seriously, don't tell me that you got every single voice actor back in the studio in those two weeks before release, to record all the dialogue related to the DLC character. Hell, he was even mentioned in the script that leaked back in late 2011!

Just because us gamers are unbelievably stupid and actually buys this stuff, doesn't make it right. Especially not with such an important character as the DLC character turned out to be. Sure you can play the game without him, but damn do you miss out on some important lore.

You got every hardcore fan by the balls with day-1 DLC like that, and you know it!

Modifié par Brovikk Rasputin, 14 août 2012 - 07:35 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

JaegerBane wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I don't care if it were made two months, two weeks or two days before the release of the game. Charging people for extra content on day-1 feels like a slap to the face, no matter how hard you try to sugarcoat it.

People keep saying this, but is this honestly the attitude you take when you purchase extra toppings for a pizza, or a cookie with your coffee? Do you really bang on about being 'slapped in the face' when you're expected to pay extra cash for extra stuff?

The day-1 DLC for ME3 was more than just extra topping. It contains some damn interesting lore and backstory that isn't explained anywhere else in the game. Hell, without it, you learn VERY LITTLE about a certain race in the entire game. 

[AlexMBrennan]

In what way is the consumer's power affected?

First, you make a purchase decision - buy the game for $base price. Having done that, you are then faced with another choice - spend another $10 to experience the full game you thought you had just bought for $base, or call it a day and play the incomplete game.

Humans rarely think rationally, and odds are that people will just hand over the $10 - sunk cost fallacy in action.

Day 1 DLC is psychological manipulation. Don't expect me to feel good about it.

Plus, it's also a thinly disguised price hike - the game now effectively costs $10 more. Think milk going from pint (0.568l) going to half litre bottles without changing the price to reflect this. Do you want me to feel good about that too?

Sure, consumers have choice, but THEY are using every trick in the book to manipulate you. Do you want me to feel good about that too?

[Tipsyfresh]

@ ninja

U are right about the necessity for the consumer to make their own choices. But I think some people in this thread find it wrong on principle for the video game industry to have this practice. So it would be especially sad if companies are just taking advantage of fandom and hiding behind the consumer's choice argument.

That said, u still are correct that I can chose whether or not I purchase dlc or anything else, but you cant pretend that the industry doesn't understand how marketing and scheduling can manipulate the fan/player base. Collectors editions that have add-ons only available as pre-orders can attest to this.
And the manipulation is what is a big part of the problem not to mention if the dlc isn't worth it (I.e. robo dog).

Plus it sounds like you may know that some dlc isn't worth the purchase but you put it out anyway. (not u personally but just the industry in general)

Modifié par Tipsyfresh, 14 août 2012 - 07:41 .

[Ninja Stan]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The day-1 DLC for ME3 was more than just extra topping. It contains some damn interesting lore and backstory that isn't explained anywhere else in the game. Hell, without it, you learn VERY LITTLE about a certain race in the entire game. 

So the DLC contained interesting content that encouraged people to purchase it? ARen't you kind of blaming the developer/publisher for making something you want to buy, and then complaining that you want to buy it and shouldn't have to? What should BioWare/EA do, create DLC that people don't find interesting and want to buy?

[Tipsyfresh]

Nice post AlexMB


Not true angel. Since this is a no spoilers thread its hard to show the relevance of Javik's add-on in this thread but I am 110% sure that without Javik you should be mostly  clueless during the final moments ( with certain choices to say the least).

Modifié par Tipsyfresh, 14 août 2012 - 07:46 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

BioWare, and any company, has the right to make DLC for games and release it whenever they dang well feel like it.

You, as a consumer, have a right not to buy it.

There's no "justification" needed here, and honestly any "justification" they tried to give you would just be sneered at as yet another "slap in the face" or whatnot.

I bought Javik because I thought he sounded effing cool. And he was absolutely worth the purchase price. There have been other games where they launched with day 1 DLC that I did not buy because they did not sound interesting to me. Just because a publisher releases something does not mean you automatically have to buy it.

[Ninja Stan]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

First, you make a purchase decision - buy the game for $base price. Having done that, you are then faced with another choice - spend another $10 to experience the full game you thought you had just bought for $base, or call it a day and play the incomplete game.

Humans rarely think rationally, and odds are that people will just hand over the $10 - sunk cost fallacy in action.

Day 1 DLC is psychological manipulation. Don't expect me to feel good about it.

Plus, it's also a thinly disguised price hike - the game now effectively costs $10 more. Think milk going from pint (0.568l) going to half litre bottles without changing the price to reflect this. Do you want me to feel good about that too?

Sure, consumers have choice, but THEY are using every trick in the book to manipulate you. Do you want me to feel good about that too?

So you no longer have that choice to purchase or not purchase? Your free will has been sapped by BioWare/EA's "psychological manipulation"? Come on, AlexMBrennan, companies don't have mind control rays and telekinetic wallet-opening powers. Whether you "feel good about" the price or the content, where exactly does your power to choose break down? Because you seem pretty capable of making that choice that you believe millions of others are incapable of making. I would hazard a guess that no everyone who enjoys DLC, day 1 DLC, and/or microtransactions is a mind-controlled, drooling "durrrrr" zombie.

[NKKKK]

[If you're not going to discuss the topic in good faith, regardless of your stance, it would be better if you didn't post at all.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 14 août 2012 - 07:55 .

[Imp of the Perverse]

casamar wrote...

Extra Credtis made an entire episode about this specific piece of DLC. It's worth a watch

(opens in new window)

Interesting video. It also might explain why they've been pushing the multiplayer - it'll keep people interested in the game longer, leading to more single player DLC sales. Not a bad thing - if they're expecting higher DLC sales they're likely to put more money into their development, and offer more of them. I didn't get much from the IGN article though beyond "we make day 1 dlc because people buy it."

I wasn't really offended by From Ashes. I played through ME3 before buying that DLC, and it felt complete. From Ashes did include some interesting background on the protheans, but none of it was really key to ME3's story, it was just some nice additional detail. I'd rather DLC have some new information to offer than have it be just be an empty excuse for more combat.

[Atakuma]

JaegerBane wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

I don't care if it were made two months, two weeks or two days before the release of the game. Charging people for extra content on day-1 feels like a slap to the face, no matter how hard you try to sugarcoat it.

People keep saying this, but is this honestly the attitude you take when you purchase extra toppings for a pizza, or a cookie with your coffee? Do you really bang on about being 'slapped in the face' when you're expected to pay extra cash for extra stuff?

The problem I have with it, is that it's not really extra at all,. It was written at the same time as the main game, the voice over was recorded at the same time, and the character himself is already on the disc. There is no reason they could not have just included this content with the main game, they simply chose to use it to squeeze some extra cash out of people. 

Now, this is some sort of heinous act, or that i've been slapped in the face.  It does however, rienforce the Idea that Bioware only see me as a cash cow to be milked, and that's not a good feeling.

[Father_Jerusalem]

NKKKK wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

BioWare, and any company, has the right to make DLC for games and release it whenever they dang well feel like it.

You, as a consumer, have a right not to buy it.

There's no "justification" needed here, and honestly any "justification" they tried to give you would just be sneered at as yet another "slap in the face" or whatnot.

I bought Javik because I thought he sounded effing cool. And he was absolutely worth the purchase price. There have been other games where they launched with day 1 DLC that I did not buy because they did not sound interesting to me. Just because a publisher releases something does not mean you automatically have to buy it.

Get of your sock puppet account, devs

Nothing valuable to contribute, I see?

I wish I was a dev. I do. Then I'd know what was up with Leviathan right now instead of waiting like everyone else. I'd have my voice directly contributing to the future of the Mass Effect universe instead of only posting on these forums. I'd have a very nice job instead of struggling to pay off college loans.

But I'm not. And just because you like being anti-establishment doesn't mean that my opinion is any less valid than yours. 

[Ninja Stan]

Tipsyfresh wrote...

Plus it sounds like you may know that some dlc isn't worth the purchase but you put it out anyway. (not u personally but just the industry in general)

The notion of value is subjective. A company doesn't "know that some DLC isn't worth the purchase price." A company prices a product at what it believes it can get for it. Whether a gamer feels the DLC is "worth the purchase price" is completely up to the individual making the choice. This is the disconnect I'm having with some of my opponents in this discussion (and I am proud of the community for arguing their points in a mature, civil manner here, regardless of our ideological differences). Some people believe that corporate marketing, what they are calling "manipulation," somehow prevents the user from exercising their power of choice.

I beleive that some users have forgotten that one aspect of buying something is the assumption of risk, risk that you won't enjoy what you've bought or risk that you will feel like you've made a bad choice. Well, guess what? That's precisely the risk you assume when you pay for anything. There is never a guarantee that you will enjoy something or get the value out of it that you want. But once again, that's not the company's fault. They have a product and are selling it at a certain price. The consumer, ultimately, makes the purchasing decision. Always.

[Tipsyfresh]

@ ninja
Its not news that when a person invests in something they are more likely to keep investing in it even if it's not the most rational plan, see poker strategies etc.

That's why it's hard to just leave it at "purchase or not purchase". Especially when they own the game already. And that goes double for a sequel or trilogy. So you don't have to make fun of people by saying "magic wallet opener" and whatnot. And marketing exist for one reason, to convince the consumer to buy, so as a matter of fact you do have a magic wallet opener, a really really good one.

Modifié par Tipsyfresh, 14 août 2012 - 08:01 .

[Tipsyfresh]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Tipsyfresh wrote...

Nice post AlexMB


Not true angel. Since this is a no spoilers thread its hard to show the relevance of Javik's add-on in this thread but I am 110% sure that without Javik you should be mostly  clueless during the final moments ( with certain choices to say the least).

I have the Collector's Edition. Javik did nothing. He had some Prothean exposition for Liara, but had literally, literally no help for the MQ.

The devils In the dialog. Plainly put Javik tells you about "chaos" and while talking to starchild you learn that destroy will only leave chaos.  I'll leave the rest for u.
"

[Ninja Stan]

Atakuma wrote...

The problem I have with it, is that it's not really extra at all,. It was written at the same time as the main game, the voice over was recorded at the same time, and the character himself is already on the disc. There is no reason they could not have just included this content with the main game, they simply chose to use it to squeeze some extra cash out of people.

This has been argued and proven wrong many times over, including in this very thread. The scheduling of the creation of the content is completely immaterial. There is no regulation, other than your preference, that dictates that "any content produced at the same time as core game content must appear on the disc and/or be included in the base game." None. Once again, if you feel that the price of the content and/or extra content is not worth the asking price, do not buy it. Your power to choose remains unaffected.

Now, this is some sort of heinous act, or that i've been slapped in the face.  It does however, rienforce the Idea that Bioware only see me as a cash cow to be milked, and that's not a good feeling.

As a customer, you are, in fact, a cash cow that a company wishes to milk in order to get more money. This is the case regardless of the industry involved, and at no time do you have to submit to that milking. You have every right to choose to not be milked. Jutt say "no, I won't purchase that product at that price" and you will have exercised your power and responsibility in spades. Done. Both you and the company have fulfilled your job descriptions and the world turns.

[Tipsyfresh]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Tipsyfresh wrote...

The devils In the dialog. Plainly put Javik tells you about "chaos" and while talking to starchild you learn that destroy will only leave chaos.  I'll leave the rest for u.
"

Yeah, I never encountered that in the slightest, so I can't believe it unless you show us proof.

Ill release a dlc for ya.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The day-1 DLC for ME3 was more than just extra topping. It contains some damn interesting lore and backstory that isn't explained anywhere else in the game. Hell, without it, you learn VERY LITTLE about a certain race in the entire game. 

So the DLC contained interesting content that encouraged people to purchase it? ARen't you kind of blaming the developer/publisher for making something you want to buy, and then complaining that you want to buy it and shouldn't have to? What should BioWare/EA do, create DLC that people don't find interesting and want to buy?

There's a difference between something that's interesting, and what BW offered at the release of ME3. The Day-1 DLC for ME3 contained information about the backstory of the entire Mass Effect trilogy, that was nowhere to be found in the base game.

No, I'm not forced to buy anything, but then again, BW knew damn well that they had every hardcore fan of the franchise by the balls with that DLC because of the content. Since this is the no spoiler forum, I can't say much more than that. 

Why did it have to be a character of this species? Why not make James Vega a DLC character? They were clearly developed at the same time, so why pick such an important character as day-1 DLC? 

Modifié par Brovikk Rasputin, 14 août 2012 - 08:07 .