512 réponses à ce sujet

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

It's justified because people buy it. It's as simple as that.

[FlamingBoy]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Perhaps you should read this.

It is infuriating that you link sends us to ign

Edit: the most pro- developer and anti-consumer site on the gaming net

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 15 août 2012 - 03:03 .

[xsdob]

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

[LiarasShield]

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

[LinksOcarina]

I can justify this simply.

1. Did you buy the DLC?

If yes, then DLC is a valid way to extend content for a game, extend the life of a game, extend job time for the dev team, and to offer incentive for day one buyers, where most games make their money.

If you did not buy it, then that's your choice. That's capitalism for you.

Ergo, DLC is valid. The OP just doesn't agree with it and cries foul, when in reality the OP has no real case to say it is invalid at all.

[LiarasShield]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I can justify this simply.

1. Did you buy the DLC?

If yes, then DLC is a valid way to extend content for a game, extend the life of a game, extend job time for the dev team, and to offer incentive for day one buyers, where most games make their money.

If you did not buy it, then that's your choice. That's capitalism for you.

Ergo, DLC is valid. The OP just doesn't agree with it and cries foul, when in reality the OP has no real case to say it is invalid at all.

If it was really downloadable content then I would agree with you but it was locked content that was already on the disc therefore it doesn't really count as dlc

[AresKeith]

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

thats why Capcom is getting yelled at lately

[LiarasShield]

EntropicAngel wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

You are wrong, unfortunately.

The character was on the disc.

The DLC was not.

You don't remember the 700 MB download? I sure do.

"From Ashes" isn't just a character, it's the story of how we got that character as well.

But the content was already on the disc it was locked until you paid a microtransaction a fair amount of computer players were able to get the content without paying any money just by unfileing the locked content on the disc


It was the same problem capcom has been doing by having locked characters or fighters in street fighter x tekken by having locked content on the disc and it not be actually dlc and the players didn't get all the content that they paid for that was on that disc


So some of the ops points make sense if the content wasn't actuallt dlc but locked content on the disc that players already paid for

Modifié par LiarasShield, 15 août 2012 - 03:23 .

[xsdob]

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

Yes, but the same thing happened with kasumi and zaeed, and like I ask how does it signify an incomplete game? Because an game will never be complete until it is dead and no dlc is ever made for it, otherwise you'll always have more content that you don't possess and need to buy.

It all just seems like it blows the problem out of proportion, and to answer another response I got here, would you really miss it if the easedropping quest were not included? Or the none priority missions?

[AresKeith]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I can justify this simply.

1. Did you buy the DLC?

If yes, then DLC is a valid way to extend content for a game, extend the life of a game, extend job time for the dev team, and to offer incentive for day one buyers, where most games make their money.

If you did not buy it, then that's your choice. That's capitalism for you.

Ergo, DLC is valid. The OP just doesn't agree with it and cries foul, when in reality the OP has no real case to say it is invalid at all.

the complaint isn't about DLC, its about having some of the content already on the disc and making you pay extra for something you already paid for

[LiarasShield]

xsdob wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

Yes, but the same thing happened with kasumi and zaeed, and like I ask how does it signify an incomplete game? Because an game will never be complete until it is dead and no dlc is ever made for it, otherwise you'll always have more content that you don't possess and need to buy.

It all just seems like it blows the problem out of proportion, and to answer another response I got here, would you really miss it if the easedropping quest were not included? Or the none priority missions?

If it is locked content on the disc it is not downloadable content therefore you're not getting the full package or the full game if the content that is already on that disc is not completely presented to you it is the reason why capcom is taking so much fire right now

[hypnotizedmind]

Bioware can justify the fact that they're making money.

Simple. As. That.

[LinksOcarina]

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

See, that is actually a lie.

From what I have seen, files regarding From Ashes in a DLC is basically datamined assets that were added before the game went gold, including placeholder for the character, the character in the menu, the dialouge and flags for dialouge changes, and so forth.  What was not found on the disk, but in the DLC was the actual mission, several dialouge scenes with Javik (mostly alone scenes with him and Shepard, and I believe two scenes with Liara as well)

So what is on-disk is basically the flags for it to be activated when you download the disk, which is a common thing. It saves time for developers to do that, to put assets on the main disk, because they would take up a LOT of room on DLC, especially when you have a 2 gig limit. 

So really, its hard to judge what was on disk and what wasn't. Most of the assets on disk were flags for the DLC, which was not acessible at all. You can't recruit Javik as you normally would, nor have conversations with him in-game. You can use him on missions and he will say stuff, but then you have an incomplete character to contend with. So is the DLC really on disk in this case, or is it half-complete by design?

AresKeith wrote...


the complaint isn't about DLC, its about having some of the content already on the disc and making you pay extra for something you already paid for

See above. And considering Javik was planned in early drafts, was removed in later drafts, and then was chosen to be a DLC character that everyone knew existed when Mass Effect 3 went on Pre-order (not Javik himself, but a DLC character in general, as the bonus character was one item touted through pre-order ads) I find it hard for people to say DLC like this is not justfiyable, when they told you about it beforehand.

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 15 août 2012 - 03:29 .

[Killateral DMG]

Day 1 DLC is justifiable. Sometimes they just have ideas that they can't complete by the time they put the game into certification and start actually producing discs but they can finish by the launch date. The Ashes to Ashes (that is what it is called right?) DLC didn't feel like it was something that was missing from the main game, it just felt like more content and story. I would rather have day 1 DLC than have them delay the game by months.

[LiarasShield]

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

See, that is actually a lie.

From what I have seen, files regarding From Ashes in a DLC is basically datamined assets that were added before the game went gold, including placeholder for the character, the character in the menu, the dialouge and flags for dialouge changes, and so forth.  What was not found on the disk, but in the DLC was the actual mission, several dialouge scenes with Javik (mostly alone scenes with him and Shepard, and I believe two scenes with Liara as well)

So what is on-disk is basically the flags for it to be activated when you download the disk, which is a common thing. It saves time for developers to do that, to put assets on the main disk, because they would take up a LOT of room on DLC, especially when you have a 2 gig limit. 

So really, its hard to judge what was on disk and what wasn't. Most of the assets on disk were flags for the DLC, which was not acessible at all. You can't recruit Javik as you normally would, nor have conversations with him in-game. You can use him on missions and he will say stuff, but then you have an incomplete character to contend with. So is the DLC really on disk in this case, or is it half-complete by design?

Just using what capcom did as a reference to why day 1 dlc may probably be bad espically if it was locked content on the disc like some pc players have reported it to be

[LiarasShield]

if it isn't disc locked content then yes day one dlc is fine if is then it isn't it

[Zjarcal]

Nyoka wrote...

xsdob wrote...

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

By that logic, you could strip ME3 of every single side quest and it would still be a complete game. Every non essential interaction could be bought separately and you could still finish the game with none of it.

That's true, it just boils down to what feels like a "complete game" to the player. If I miss out on one character and one side quest, while still getting dozens of other side quests and non essential content, on top of a fully developed main campaign, I feel I got my money's worth and that the game is complete, even if one side quest was held back to be sold as day 1 dlc.

Obviously to other people, the game will only feel complete if every single piece of content that was done before release is included.

On topic, day 1 dlc would only annoy me if it's essential content to the story, or if you can see the remnants of the cut content in game and got a big fat message "pay to see the rest", sort of like Warden's Keep in DAO, where Levi Dryden gives you the quest but it can only be done after installing the DLC. And yeah, yeah, it was free to those who bought the game new on release, but not for everyone who bought it afterwards, I bought it during a steam sale about 5 months after release and had to buy Warden's Keep separately.

[LiarasShield]

Basiclly bioware just don''t do locked content on the disc like capcom did and everybody will be mostly happy


Also for future references please don't do misleading interviews or false adveritizments for games still love you


From A Baldurs gate II fan

Modifié par LiarasShield, 15 août 2012 - 03:36 .

[Bluebeam2012]

Modifié par Bluebeam2012, 15 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[Bluebeam2012]

Bluebeam2012 wrote...

Extra Credits, a very good Youtube channel talked about it in one of their episodes:
www.youtube.com/watch

hopefully it will help us understand the rationale behind the day 1 DLC

[AresKeith]

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

See, that is actually a lie.

From what I have seen, files regarding From Ashes in a DLC is basically datamined assets that were added before the game went gold, including placeholder for the character, the character in the menu, the dialouge and flags for dialouge changes, and so forth.  What was not found on the disk, but in the DLC was the actual mission, several dialouge scenes with Javik (mostly alone scenes with him and Shepard, and I believe two scenes with Liara as well)

So what is on-disk is basically the flags for it to be activated when you download the disk, which is a common thing. It saves time for developers to do that, to put assets on the main disk, because they would take up a LOT of room on DLC, especially when you have a 2 gig limit. 

So really, its hard to judge what was on disk and what wasn't. Most of the assets on disk were flags for the DLC, which was not acessible at all. You can't recruit Javik as you normally would, nor have conversations with him in-game. You can use him on missions and he will say stuff, but then you have an incomplete character to contend with. So is the DLC really on disk in this case, or is it half-complete by design?

AresKeith wrote...


the complaint isn't about DLC, its about having some of the content already on the disc and making you pay extra for something you already paid for

See above. And considering Javik was planned in early drafts, was removed in later drafts, and then was chosen to be a DLC character that everyone knew existed when Mass Effect 3 went on Pre-order (not Javik himself, but a DLC character in general, as the bonus character was one item touted through pre-order ads) I find it hard for people to say DLC like this is not justfiyable, when they told you about it beforehand.

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc