512 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

xsdob wrote...

I never understood the whole "I'm not getting a full game" argument, I completed dragonage origins, mass effect 1, mass effect 2, and fallout new vegas long before I even knew dlc existed, it still felt like I played a full and complete game.

Hell, I even deleted the day one free dlc I had, the exiled prince, for dragonage 2 because I didn't like choosing between anders and sebastian, and guess what? The game was still full and complete.

When you buy a bethesda game, do you complain that you weren't sold a complete game when the game of the year edition comes out? When you buy a movie, do you complain you didn't get the full movie when a directors or extended version comes out for sale? It's the same thing, a nice addition that helps to enhance the story but whose subtraction does not hurt the overall story.

And yes, just to give it a shot I played mass effect 3 without the from ashes dlc, and guess what? It was still a complete game. The only time this argument will ever be valid in my eyes is if you buy a game and need to buy the start menu as a dlc, or need to buy a program to run it seperate, that is where I draw the line.

Ah but heres the problem with some stuff like dlc is that it wasn't really downloadable content it was locked content on the disc if the player bought the game or the disc then the player should receive all the content that is currently on that disc not have to pay more money for what he or she already bought

Computer players that unfiled the ashes dlc on the disc the content was already their you just had to pay what was already on the disc

See, that is actually a lie.

From what I have seen, files regarding From Ashes in a DLC is basically datamined assets that were added before the game went gold, including placeholder for the character, the character in the menu, the dialouge and flags for dialouge changes, and so forth.  What was not found on the disk, but in the DLC was the actual mission, several dialouge scenes with Javik (mostly alone scenes with him and Shepard, and I believe two scenes with Liara as well)

So what is on-disk is basically the flags for it to be activated when you download the disk, which is a common thing. It saves time for developers to do that, to put assets on the main disk, because they would take up a LOT of room on DLC, especially when you have a 2 gig limit. 

So really, its hard to judge what was on disk and what wasn't. Most of the assets on disk were flags for the DLC, which was not acessible at all. You can't recruit Javik as you normally would, nor have conversations with him in-game. You can use him on missions and he will say stuff, but then you have an incomplete character to contend with. So is the DLC really on disk in this case, or is it half-complete by design?

Just using what capcom did as a reference to why day 1 dlc may probably be bad espically if it was locked content on the disc like some pc players have reported it to be

And that is Capcom, not BioWare. 

Capcom has also said that they won't be pushing out DLC after the reception Ashura's Wrath and Street Fighter X Tekken recieved. Dragons Dogma is supposed to be the last game in that category at the moment.

So honestly, if people were a bit more informed on this whole thing, then I think a lot of the DLC fervor would just die down. One can hope, at least. 

[LinksOcarina]

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

Ok.

How is he essential? 

[LiarasShield]

LinksOcarina wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

Ok.

How is he essential? 

Well alot of things have changed since bioware partnered up with ea I know I loved bioware alot more when they worked with black isles ^^ they made awesome games and talked to the fanbase fairly often during those times


But now in the forums they barely speak if at all that and I just hope they do not end up following the same trend as capcom also the false interviews and misleading advertizement for me3s release and then dragon age 2....
I worry about dragon age 3 fans for the sole reason that the same claims pre me3 release are being made again.

[LinksOcarina]

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

Ok.

How is he essential? 

Well alot of things have changed since bioware partnered up with ea I know I loved bioware alot more when they worked with black isles ^^ they made awesome games and talked to the fanbase fairly often during those times

But now in the forums they barely speak if at all that and I just hope they do not end up following the same trend as capcom also the false interviews and misleading advertizement for me3s release and then dragon age 2....
I worry about dragon age 3 fans for the sole reason that the same claims pre me3 release are being made again.

The bolded part is honestly irrelevent to the grand scheme of things, since BioWare has done thing since Jade Empire.

As for false advertising and all that...that is also debatable. And Dragon Age II never had false advertising from what I remember, since it did go through his rise to power under a guy named Hawke. 

[AkuIaTubShark]

I actually just got done talking about this very issue, with this very game on Skype about 10 minutes ago.
He pre-ordered the N7 Collector's Edition about.. 3 weeks before the game was released (Yeah, ME3 N7 Version wasn't popular at the store we get our games from) - while as I pre-ordered the normal edition back in October (October 14th, to be precise) and I'll FLAT out admit.. As soon as I heard about the 'From Ashes' DLC, I literally ran up to the neared GameStop and preordered about 4 copies of it.. (Had a few friends who didn't want to buy it) and I'll admit it - I personally love the DLC.
I also don't see the complaint about not getting the full game, your missing like.. at MOST 90minutes of gameplay of a 30 HOUR PLUS game.. How in the world is that even missing a part of the game? All your missing is insight into what happened 50,000 years ago, honestly it's not much.
I also love BioWare and it's development team, I mean, their one of the few companies who actually listens to their customer's and does things to refine then (Also - to the people complaining that the game was crap due to the ending(s), if memory serves correct EA Games rushed BioWare to get the game out [Don't quote me on that] and the mere fact that they released the 'Extended Cut' DLC [For free at that when they could have charged us 5-10$ for it] was a huge plus for us consumers.)
Now - look at other companies like.. for example, Bethesda - for every single game that I've ever bought from them it takes them udder months to get out even some kind of DLC.. Look at Skyrim and Dawnguard, it just came out what, a month ago? And the game has been out since 11/11/11, I personally beat the game and had all it's secrets done within 3 weeks of owning the game, as a result of being being on medical leave from work and having to cancel my college classes. While.. I'm STILL playing 'Mass Effect 3' and getting more and more of it's secrets found everyday, mainly because I refuse to use a Wikia site unless I absolutely need too.

I know, I went a bit off topic in comparisons, and did not in anyway mean to bring disrespect to BioWare for bringing up Bethesda and 'Skyrim' but was making a point..

If you don't want the Day One DLC, then don't buy it, if it's disc locked - at SOME points it's understandable.

While it's true, most gamers don't give a crap about profit margin and such.. Yet, they know that the margin from us, customers, lets the company pay their developers for these games that they release.

Does Mass Effect as a whole have it's problems? Yes, it's natural. There's not one completely bug free, prefect game out there on the market - so holding that against them is bull at most, in my opinion.

But really, sometimes these DLC's don't even get out there until the games already been approved, and sometimes a company stops the copying of the game and re-does them with the content on them, and yes, they charge us. But honestly, is 10$ really going to hurt you THAT much (Some situations, it's understandable that it would, but not for every single person out there).

But seriously... Don't "QQ" about something that's out of your control - honestly there's not a huge effect it'll have - and day one DLC's? You don't agree with them then simply don't buy them unless it's something that you absolutely HAVE to have to play the game..
So they released 'From Ashes' - and maybe it was a large seller (Note: Just checked 'From Ashes' DLC on the Xbox Live Game Marketplace - and 10793 people have paid and downloaded it. So let's do some simple math!:
10793*10.69 = 115377.17$ USD, give or take - using the Sales Tax of the state I live in as a baseline for maximum amount possible without taking other states/countries into account.
Now, that 115,377.17$? It goes to pay possibly the BioWare company itself and the Mass Effect team, which has made a series that many people world wide have fallen in love with. I still play ME1 and ME2 just for old times sake. I also own every DLC except for Pinnacle Station for ME1 (Because I personally found it pointless) and the FireFight Pack because I have not been able to purchase MicroSoft Points lately.

But it goes without saying...
If you love the game enough, or get caught up in the hype, you'll buy Day One DLC - whether it's Disc-Locked or not - so there's no real point in complaining about something that's a completely OPTIONAL choice, it's not as if BioWare is holding a gun to your head saying "BUY THIS RIGHT NOW OR WE'LL KILL YOU AND AREA BAN YOUR ENTIRE STATE FROM PLAYING OUR ONLINE SERVERS." So yes really... Stop complaining.

Note: Sorry for going all over the place, I have had about 6 full Monster Import cans today so forgive me for being ADHD and high on caffine/energy blend!

/rant over

[LiarasShield]

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

Ok.

How is he essential? 

Well alot of things have changed since bioware partnered up with ea I know I loved bioware alot more when they worked with black isles ^^ they made awesome games and talked to the fanbase fairly often during those times

But now in the forums they barely speak if at all that and I just hope they do not end up following the same trend as capcom also the false interviews and misleading advertizement for me3s release and then dragon age 2....
I worry about dragon age 3 fans for the sole reason that the same claims pre me3 release are being made again.

The bolded part is honestly irrelevent to the grand scheme of things, since BioWare has done thing since Jade Empire.

As for false advertising and all that...that is also debatable. And Dragon Age II never had false advertising from what I remember, since it did go through his rise to power under a guy named Hawke. 

ment about the false advertizement and the false interviews for me3 and ment how badly implemented dragon age 2 was because it kept reusing the same environements for most of the game

Misleadinng or lieing to the customer is a bad way to lose money and not a smart way to gain profit if they pull some of the stunts they did pre me3 release or only recylce stages or evironments like they did in dragon age 2 things may not go so well for them though I can imagine battlefield 3 and the new medal of honor advanced war fighter will keep them afloat for awhile

Modifié par LiarasShield, 15 août 2012 - 04:00 .

[LinksOcarina]

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

Ok.

How is he essential? 

Well alot of things have changed since bioware partnered up with ea I know I loved bioware alot more when they worked with black isles ^^ they made awesome games and talked to the fanbase fairly often during those times

But now in the forums they barely speak if at all that and I just hope they do not end up following the same trend as capcom also the false interviews and misleading advertizement for me3s release and then dragon age 2....
I worry about dragon age 3 fans for the sole reason that the same claims pre me3 release are being made again.

The bolded part is honestly irrelevent to the grand scheme of things, since BioWare has done thing since Jade Empire.

As for false advertising and all that...that is also debatable. And Dragon Age II never had false advertising from what I remember, since it did go through his rise to power under a guy named Hawke. 

ment about the false advertizement and the false interviews for me3 and ment how badly implemented dragon age 2 was because it kept reusing the same environements for most of the game

Sorry, didn't understand what you meant.

As for Dragon Age II, yeah the enviroments were re-used a lot. I honestly didn't care so much about it but it was clear they had little time to develop the game like that. 

Mass Effect 3 on the other hand is whole kettle of fish that I think is overblown personally. Hell I once disected the pre-release quotes from interviews people tout as a "lie" and basically came to the conclusion that it was all a confirmation bias for the most part. As I said, somewhat debatable. 

[LiarasShield]

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

Ok.

How is he essential? 

Well alot of things have changed since bioware partnered up with ea I know I loved bioware alot more when they worked with black isles ^^ they made awesome games and talked to the fanbase fairly often during those times

But now in the forums they barely speak if at all that and I just hope they do not end up following the same trend as capcom also the false interviews and misleading advertizement for me3s release and then dragon age 2....
I worry about dragon age 3 fans for the sole reason that the same claims pre me3 release are being made again.

The bolded part is honestly irrelevent to the grand scheme of things, since BioWare has done thing since Jade Empire.

As for false advertising and all that...that is also debatable. And Dragon Age II never had false advertising from what I remember, since it did go through his rise to power under a guy named Hawke. 

ment about the false advertizement and the false interviews for me3 and ment how badly implemented dragon age 2 was because it kept reusing the same environements for most of the game

Sorry, didn't understand what you meant.

As for Dragon Age II, yeah the enviroments were re-used a lot. I honestly didn't care so much about it but it was clear they had little time to develop the game like that. 

Mass Effect 3 on the other hand is whole kettle of fish that I think is overblown personally. Hell I once disected the pre-release quotes from interviews people tout as a "lie" and basically came to the conclusion that it was all a confirmation bias for the most part. As I said, somewhat debatable. 

Bioware

You'll truely be able to choose how shepards story may end and that your actions may affect the end of the game


That mass effect 3 won't end like a abc ending but it pretty much does

how there may be 16 different endings but their are only 3 or 4 with slight differences

how the rachni or war assets would play a big role in the batlle espically the rachni but they dont and you don't see any of your war assets anywhere do I need to continue my rant list about pre me3 release if you don't think they lied they definitly majorly mislead consumers.

[Ghost Lightning]

EntropicAngel wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

WHAT THE HECK PEOPLE, JAVIK WAS NOT ESSENTIAL.

*headdesk*

And neither was Kasumi, in the SLIGHTEST way. That's just absurd.

Well I think this all depends on what you mean by "essential". The LoTR movies would have told the same story had Legolas only been featured if we payed extra, but then we'd have not been given the fullness of the story that the creator aimed to tell. So in a way, one can argue that in order to get the fullness of the story Bioware intended to tell, Javik is very much essential 

[LinksOcarina]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

WHAT THE HECK PEOPLE, JAVIK WAS NOT ESSENTIAL.

*headdesk*

And neither was Kasumi, in the SLIGHTEST way. That's just absurd.

Well I think this all depends on what you mean by "essential". The LoTR movies would have told the same story had Legolas only been featured if we payed extra, but then we'd have not been given the fullness of the story that the creator aimed to tell. So in a way, one can argue that in order to get the fullness of the story Bioware intended to tell, Javik is very much essential 

Ok.

Where was Tom Bombadil in the movie adaptation? 

Bombadil, who is a non-essential character because we only see him once, also has a pivotal scene with Frodo in the book as he is the one who pretty much has no reason to fear the ring, and pretty much spoils th ending to the trilogy because Frodo has a dream in his house about the Gray Havens. 

Now the assertion I have is that the absence of Tom Bombadil in the movie adaptation the equivalent of Javik not being in Mass Effect 3, because Javik adds little to the overall story of 3. Instead, he adds insight and a fascinating take on what the state of the galaxy is. To put it frankly hes a fascinating character, but an unecessary one in the grand scheme of things.

[Ghost Lightning]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I have no idea what you're talking about so I can't agree or disagree.

However, I will say that Javik had nothing to say, other than Sanctuary and other Liara-related infodumps. And the important part is, that wasn't related to the main quest at all.

It was related to the game lore, sure. But no one said all game lore had to be present in-game (books, anyone? comics?). If it was part of the MQ, you'd have a point.

Perhaps, but there was a fair amount of characterization between Liara and Javik. One scene was even akin to the Jack/Miranda or Tali/Legion fights from ME2. Needless to say, had those scenes not been present, an important bit of characterization would have been missed. I feel the same can be said here. However, my only contention with day one DLC is that it begs the question of why, if this content was clearly developt during the same period as the main game, is it sold separately? The only logical answer is that the developer is attempting to make more money. Is it a crime for a business to want more money? Of course not. But to do it in a way that makes consumers feel like they are not getting a finished product upon purchase of a new game really can be seen as a cheap tactic. 

[wymm666]

ZombieGambit wrote...

Let's say the actual development cycle for a game is 1 year and 10 months, but it has another 2-3 months before release, which is mostly bug testing etc. Instead of sending all those programmers home, they are instead tasked with creating extra content that will not be on the disc, because the game is already finished, it's just not "golden" yet.

That is how Day 1 DLC is created and instead of waiting 1 or 2 months before releasing it to keep up appearances, they released is as soon as possible, as both a show of continued game support to the fans and to the fans and it makes good business sense because release is when the game is most hyped up and popular.

It's not a perfect system, but it's also not an evil money grubbing one that most ignorant people think it is either.

The fact that they tried to make a giant feel good conclusion to this massive universe they created within less than two years is in itself a gigantic investment flop. I've posted on various threads many times that, good long lasting games takes at least 3 years to make now days. Better ones takes even longer, 4, 5, even 7 years for some. And that's all good so long as the game delivers. It's not about the development cycle, it's the business model and the corporate culture that's the problem here. Like the OP has said, unjustifiable.

If they can justify this, then by the slippery slope argument, it's conceivable that in the near future, or scratch that, it's already happening, that games will be released in bits and pieces. You'd have a core game, say DragonAge3, with a main story line, $45 say. And all the sideline quests will be released as DLCs for 10-20 bucks each, and there will be 10 of them released over the period of one year, with a third of them on the day of release. Most people at this point, after ME3, will just not buy any DLCs from Bioware, but some will, and since everything is done in bits, the production costs comes down, they'll actually make a profit.

It might make good business sense, but games, as Bioware themselves have defined it, is an art. And pieces of arts are defined by its intrinsic values, not its marketing potentials.

[LinksOcarina]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I have no idea what you're talking about so I can't agree or disagree.

However, I will say that Javik had nothing to say, other than Sanctuary and other Liara-related infodumps. And the important part is, that wasn't related to the main quest at all.

It was related to the game lore, sure. But no one said all game lore had to be present in-game (books, anyone? comics?). If it was part of the MQ, you'd have a point.

Perhaps, but there was a fair amount of characterization between Liara and Javik. One scene was even akin to the Jack/Miranda or Tali/Legion fights from ME2. Needless to say, had those scenes not been present, an important bit of characterization would have been missed. I feel the same can be said here. However, my only contention with day one DLC is that it begs the question of why, if this content was clearly developt during the same period as the main game, is it sold separately? The only logical answer is that the developer is attempting to make more money. Is it a crime for a business to want more money? Of course not. But to do it in a way that makes consumers feel like they are not getting a finished product upon purchase of a new game really can be seen as a cheap tactic. 

Actually, they came out and said that this was stuff cut from the game that didn't fit the main storyline, that they decided to make extra for the fans. And considering that its proven already that the DLC incomplete during the months the game was going gold, and that they planned it to be the first DLC for Mass Effect 3 via re-writes and what not, says a lot about their production and planning of the game overall.

 What the consumers feel regarding it being a finished product or not is irrelevent to the truth of the matter, that this evolved from a primary concept in-game in the planning stages to the DLC bonus they wanted to give to their consumer base. Money is also involved of course, but if money was so important, they would have made the game fully episodic for you in the end as well, or extend Mass Effect 3 into two parts.

THAT would have been a cheap tactic. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 15 août 2012 - 04:36 .

[Ghost Lightning]

EntropicAngel wrote...


You're right. However, never is it necessary.

And I'll agree it's a cheap tactic. I'll agree it's a little sleazy. But I can also accept that it's business.

Yeah. I just wish Devs focused more on making a full product then releasing true expansion packs that actually add to their games. Not to say the Javik DLC didn't. 

[Zaidra]

SP2219 wrote...

Bioware, I hate to break this to you, but your business model, as it stands, is just plain wrong.

Let me start with a quote from an article you and your friends at IGN recently put together, then I can explain to you WHY you are wrong.

"While Electronic Arts and BioWare were a little slow in taking up the free-to-play model in Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare has been experimenting with distribution models for its single-player role-playing games for a while. BioWare has used online passes, day one DLC and significant story additions to build revenue outside of the traditional one-time purchase price. According to Fernando Melo, director of online development at BioWare, having a post-ship plan is “absolutely fundamental to what your team needs to be doing.”
He directly answers questions about why BioWare offers day one DLC at a talk at GDC Europe, showing how despite the displeasure for such an offering, the sales numbers justify the business practice."

What worries me the most is the final paragraph, where the words "displeasure" and "justify" appear in the same sentence.  Though this is somewhat an inferal on Charles Onyett's part, it doesn't matter.  The two words are there in the same sentence.  This is not good.

Bioware, in business, there is no justification for causing your customers any degree of displeasure.  In business, you should be pursuing the opposite.  Displeasing your customers is something you should avoid at all costs.  When 90% of your customers are practically screaming at you NOT to engage in the day 1 DLC practice, it's a good idea to do exactly that.  Why?  Because they are your customers.  They are your sole source of income.  It doesn't matter what YOU think.  If your customers are not happy, you lose.  It really is that simple.

You seem to think this is justified because your sales numbers are low in relation to your production cost.  That's because your games are not of sufficient quality to boost sales numbers to where you want them to be.  The solution is to make your games better, and not release them when they are full of programming bugs, writing inconsistencies and lack of depth.  It is definitely NOT the solution to charge the customers more money for an already below par product.

It really is so simple.  If your game is good, people will buy it.  If your game is bad, people won't buy it.  The game is a single product.  Not a product that's purposefully broken into lots of little bits you have to buy seperately.  Just a single game, on a single disc.  That is all you should be concerned about.

Take a look at games like Zelda, the Metroid Prime series, the Half Life series.  Did they rely on this business practice?  The answer is a resounding no.  This is because the development teams took the time to ensure their games were of the highest quality.  Thus more people bought the game, these games produced greater profits, the money they made on sales eclipsed their production costs.

Take a look at your previous games.  Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1.  These games did not have day 1 DLC.  The first two had no DLC at all, and they were better games for it.

There is writing on the wall here.  Your customers don't care about sales numbers, profit margins, or any other reason you might have for participating in the day 1 DLC practice.  Your customers simply do not want it.  Threfore you should not give it to them.

For the millionth time, it is that simple.

 

 

I can't even begin to....

okay, first.... why are you bringing this up six months after the release?

Secondly, a business is a business, nobody ever said it's the law for a business to please the customer. They made a ton of money. Since their joining with EA, it has been made perfectly clear that making money is Bioware's number 1 goal. They accomplished that goal, so... deal with it. 

Thirdly, this game got five out of five stars. Last I checked, that's the best they can do, so saying that their game isn't good is just your opinion and nobody cares about it. The game is freaking amazing, apart from the ending (which was just a bad writing choice) it was one of the best games I ever purchased, and I'd do it again. 

Also on a sidenote, nobody ever said that a game company has to do all of their games exactly the same. Just because me1 didn't have a day 1 DLC doesn't mean that me3 can't.

Lastly, you're fighting a losing battle. You seem to be threatening Bioware by saying that they're disappointing their soul source of income, but do you realize how many more people purchased this game than me2? Do you realize that even if you talk bad about Bioware's business practices, that's how the world works now and nobody really cares? If Bioware releases a Mass effect 4, people are going to buy it, regardless of whether bioware has a day 1 DLC or not. Just because they're unhappy doesn't mean they're not going to buy a game. Sure a medium amount of people decided to return their copy becasue of the bad ending or because of the DLC, but Bioware made a shiz load more money off of the DLC than they lost to those people leaving. 

Also, where are you getting your numbers? 90%? I don't think so. 

[Zaidra]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

I have no idea what you're talking about so I can't agree or disagree.

However, I will say that Javik had nothing to say, other than Sanctuary and other Liara-related infodumps. And the important part is, that wasn't related to the main quest at all.

It was related to the game lore, sure. But no one said all game lore had to be present in-game (books, anyone? comics?). If it was part of the MQ, you'd have a point.

Perhaps, but there was a fair amount of characterization between Liara and Javik. One scene was even akin to the Jack/Miranda or Tali/Legion fights from ME2. Needless to say, had those scenes not been present, an important bit of characterization would have been missed. I feel the same can be said here. However, my only contention with day one DLC is that it begs the question of why, if this content was clearly developt during the same period as the main game, is it sold separately? The only logical answer is that the developer is attempting to make more money. Is it a crime for a business to want more money? Of course not. But to do it in a way that makes consumers feel like they are not getting a finished product upon purchase of a new game really can be seen as a cheap tactic. 

Actually, they came out and said that this was stuff cut from the game that didn't fit the main storyline, that they decided to make extra for the fans. And considering that its proven already that the DLC incomplete during the months the game was going gold, and that they planned it to be the first DLC for Mass Effect 3 via re-writes and what not, says a lot about their production and planning of the game overall.

 What the consumers feel regarding it being a finished product or not is irrelevent to the truth of the matter, that this evolved from a primary concept in-game in the planning stages to the DLC bonus they wanted to give to their consumer base. 

Also, this^

[Zaidra]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

the other part about it was that Javik and the mission was still an essential content to the story, just like Kasumi was in ME2, even if they couldn't finish it in time they shouldn't have left part it already on the disc

WHAT THE HECK PEOPLE, JAVIK WAS NOT ESSENTIAL.

*headdesk*

And neither was Kasumi, in the SLIGHTEST way. That's just absurd.

Well I think this all depends on what you mean by "essential". The LoTR movies would have told the same story had Legolas only been featured if we payed extra, but then we'd have not been given the fullness of the story that the creator aimed to tell. So in a way, one can argue that in order to get the fullness of the story Bioware intended to tell, Javik is very much essential 

That's a terrible example. Legolas is a primary character, Javik may have unique dialogue and add to the story, but he's not essential to finish or understand the story or the game. 

[FlamingBoy]

javik was a prothean, apart from the reapers they are the race that defined the mass effect series and everything that there that it was based on, javik being a prothean alone makes him essential to the plot despite what the content was about

javik also provided lore in to our understanding into what the protheans were like and a perspective in to why and how they were defeated, this is also essential to the plot

[Brovikk Rasputin]

FlamingBoy wrote...

javik was a prothean, apart from the reapers they are the race that defined the mass effect series and everything that there that it was based on, javik being a prothean alone makes him essential to the plot despite what the content was about

javik also provided lore in to our understanding into what the protheans were like and a perspective in to why and how they were defeated, this is also essential to the plot

This. Javik should have been in the game to begin with.

[Tishiro88]

SP2219 wrote...

Take a look at games like Zelda, the Metroid Prime series, the Half Life series.  Did they rely on this business practice?  The answer is a resounding no.  This is because the development teams took the time to ensure their games were of the highest quality.  Thus more people bought the game, these games produced greater profits, the money they made on sales eclipsed their production costs.

Take a look at your previous games.  Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1.  These games did not have day 1 DLC.  The first two had no DLC at all, and they were better games for it.

There is writing on the wall here.  Your customers don't care about sales numbers, profit margins, or any other reason you might have for participating in the day 1 DLC practice.  Your customers simply do not want it.  Threfore you should not give it to them.

For the millionth time, it is that simple.

 

most of the reason why most of those did not do what bioware has/is doing is simple because DLC was no ether that big or that feasable at the time there were releshed. I find dlc to be very refreshing when (take skyrim for example) you have but 50 - 100+ hours into a game.

[Maias227]

FlamingBoy wrote...

javik was a prothean, apart from the reapers they are the race that defined the mass effect series and everything that there that it was based on, javik being a prothean alone makes him essential to the plot despite what the content was about

javik also provided lore in to our understanding into what the protheans were like and a perspective in to why and how they were defeated, this is also essential to the plot

Yes he is a prothean but that doesn't make him the heart of the plot. He knows next to nothing about the crucible and isn't directly relevant to the main purpose (to end the reaper threat) of Me3. You can consider him relevant all you want but you can buy the From Ashes dlc and just let him rot on Edens Prime. It wouldn't change anything about the rest of the game.
He is compareable to the Lord of the Rings Special edition with all those extra scenes. You pay to get some extra content there too and it was released at the same time as the standard dvd. I can assure you the main storyline does not suffer but it adds a lot  of context and depth to the movie but it isn't essential to watch the movie.

The crux of the issue likely is what we put into the word essential. For something to be essential by my standards it has to be so absolutely necesarry that everything stops unless its brought back in. Like Frodo or Saroun in Lord of the Rings.