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[iconoclast_tripod]

 Hi everyone, I'm really confused about the plot of Mass Effect 2, it raises many questions and maybe, some of you could help me understand.

As of Mass Effect, we know the Reapers are dormant in dark space with Sovereign as their vanguard in our galaxy, watching over our develoment and having for duty to call them back when the time is right. Sovereign then realizes he can't call the other Reapers as the Protheans went to the Citadel using the Conduit to prevent their return by stopping the signal.It is therefore critically important for Sovereign to assault and conquer the Citadel so as to "plug" itself on the Citadel Tower to send the signal and call the other Reapers. So important is this endeavour that Sovereign plans over centuries and goes to a battle where it is at risk of being destroyed.
So Shepard and the fifth fleet then destroy Sovereign, the Galaxy is saved, the Reapers won't be summoned. Hurrah.
The comes Mass Effect 2....
Where we learn that there is another awoken Reaper: Harbinger.
So...
QUESTION 1: What was Harbinger doing in ME1 when Sovereign was planning and fighting to summon the other Reapers ? TWO Reapers would have assuredly won over Shepard and the combined fleet...
Ho! We might answer : he was sleeping and just woke up at the end of ME1...But then...
QUESTION 2: in that case, why did he just wake up in that extremely convenient and coincidental time spot?

But WAIT! There's more! It is still important to summon the other Reapers isn't it? Sovereign was willing to risk its own existence and spent centuries planning ahead! So it should have been quite important indeed...So... why doesn't Harbinger try to do just that? 
In other words:
QUESTION 3: Why openly alert the galaxy by rapturing humans en-masse, to build just one other Reaper instead of trying again to build a better plan so as to, this time, succeed in summoning the Reapers from Dark Space?
and...
QUESTION 4: Why bother harvesting humans now when they shall be all harvested when the other Reapers come anyway...
Yeah, what is that lame plan of building a baby Reaper when you could unleash absolute destruction over the Galaxy; and build lots of Reaper babies doing so anyway... 

And then, at the end of Mass Effect 2, we see a whole fleet of Reapers activating....
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
QUESTION 5: What the ù^£$* are these guys doing? Why was it that important for Sovereign to summon them if they are well awake and coming all by themselves? What's the purpose of this so-called "vanguard"? Could'nt he just wait? What did we achieve in Mass Effect?




So, while I loved Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2 really confused me, there are two Reapers instead of one (and it was important in ME1 that Sovereign was alone...), the Reapers are fine awake by themselves and need not be summoned (and it was important in ME1 that they should be...).

Have I missed something? Could somebody explain? These (perceived) incoherencies really break my suspension of disbelief as I have difficulties making decisions when they don't make sense (let's lose lots of ships destroying Sovereign when we could keep them for the impending doom that will come anyway!) and I'd really welcome an explanation that would help me enjoy more these great games.

[RebelTitan428]

During the events of ME1 Harbinger is not in hibernation, but residing in dark space. Far from being able to offer available aid to Sovereign.
It is left to be assumed that because of Sovereign's defeat and the Protheans manipulation of the Relay signal that the reapers no longer have their vanguard to begin the next cycle, or means of direct transport to the Citadel, which in turn would allow they to systematically shut down the relay network and isolate the individual systems.

The purpose of the human abductions is because prior to Mass Effect 3, their was a different lead writer than Mac Walters.
It was Drew Karpyshyn, and he planned on a different ending thematically though not different visually. It would have involved the spread of Dark Energy. As stated in the 2 games, more so Mass Effect 2, that humanity has a unique genetic diversity, and the Reaper recognized this special trait, and sets humanity apart from the rest of the galactic species. This would eventually lead the Reapers to believe humanity genetic diversity would play a key role in stopping the spread of Dark Energy, and by the time Harbinger and the Reapers learned this, they had run out of time. The spread of Dark Energy was happening, and whatever plans they had, now had to be rushed.


But as we know that ending never came, nor did a real explanation of why a giant Terminator was hanging in the Collector Base.

unfortunately fans are left to speculate, because apparently the writers of this great game wanted others to do their job for them.

[iconoclast_tripod]

Thank you for your answer RebelTitan428.

When you say that Harbinger was not in hibernation but in Dark Space, thus unable to help Sovereign. I thought that all the other Reapers were dormant and that this was the only thing keeping them from coming. Why would an active Reaper be unable to come (through the Alpha or Omega relay, as the collectors do) ? Don't they control the mass relays?

This is especially strange, considering that nothing seems to stop Harbinger and his friends from coming in ME3.... So if he CAN come in ME3 why can't he earlier?

Then, what's the meaning of Arrival? You stopped the Reapers from coming through the Alpha relay... why don't they use another one?

[RebelTitan428]

Considering the appearance of the other relays in the network looking drastically different than the Omega 4 Relay i am left to assume that the Omega Relay was added to the network after the existing Relays simply for the purpose of homing the Collector Base. And as mentioned in my previous reply was initially for the purpose of studying Dark Energy which i would guess in plentiful in the Galactic Core.
The Alpha Relay on the other hand was said by Dr. Kenson to be theorized as the oldest Mass Relay in the galaxy (mind you when this comment is made she has not been "fully" indoctrinated, and has no knowledge of the Citadel's true purpose).
It is stated in-game that the Alpha Relay is unusual for its potential range, and versatility. It is stated that it sends and receives mass at the range of a normal Secondary Relay, but if certain controls are adjusted, it becomes powered by an unprecedented amount of dark energy that could send cargo to sixteen other relays and even across a great distance to the Citadel.
I can't remember but i believe Dr. Kenson says that the Reapers will be arriving in the System of the Alpha Relay in 2 days (roughly) meaning that because of Shepards actions in Mass Effect complemented by the Protheans disruption of the Citadel Signal. On top of that the human-Reaper (if post-suicide mission now destroyed) was the Reaper's true goal as it was to combat they're real enemy : Dark Energy, had forced the Reapers to manually descend to the Milky Way.

My head-canon gives the Reapers a "back-up plan". It has the Reapers coming from the outer-rim of the Milky Way (as i think they did?), and when beginning their cycle attacking the species of the galaxy inwards. And eventually forcing the races to travel beyond the un-mapped Omega 4, and seemingly into the hands of the Collectors. Where the races would be exterminated and humanity brought to "ascension"

Modifié par RebelTitan428, 14 août 2012 - 06:14 .

[iconoclast_tripod]

All right, so if we leave aside this "Dark Energy" plot, there really is no reason for Harbinger & Co. not to come earlier.

But, in this "Dark Energy" hypothesis, what was the plan of Sovereign? His course of action is completely coherent with the premises of Mass Effect (lone Reaper vanguard, has to call the others for them to wake up and come) but, even with the "Dark Energy" explanation, it is difficult to reconcile with the events of Mass Effect 2 (he is not the only one to be active at all and all the others can come without him sumoning them).

I'm still quite confused by the course of events after Mass Effect 1.

[RebelTitan428]

i think everyone is, the story lost any form consistency when Mac Walters took over.
I think the entire franchise was meant to be speculated upon so anyone could "head-cannon" certain things, but no one at Bioware gave answers where answers were needed.
they spent to much time asking questions rather than answering them.

[F4H bandicoot]

iconoclast_tripod wrote...

 Hi everyone, I'm really confused about the plot of Mass Effect 2, it raises many questions and maybe, some of you could help me understand.

As of Mass Effect, we know the Reapers are dormant in dark space with Sovereign as their vanguard in our galaxy, watching over our develoment and having for duty to call them back when the time is right. Sovereign then realizes he can't call the other Reapers as the Protheans went to the Citadel using the Conduit to prevent their return by stopping the signal.It is therefore critically important for Sovereign to assault and conquer the Citadel so as to "plug" itself on the Citadel Tower to send the signal and call the other Reapers. So important is this endeavour that Sovereign plans over centuries and goes to a battle where it is at risk of being destroyed.
So Shepard and the fifth fleet then destroy Sovereign, the Galaxy is saved, the Reapers won't be summoned. Hurrah.
The comes Mass Effect 2....
Where we learn that there is another awoken Reaper: Harbinger.
So...
QUESTION 1: What was Harbinger doing in ME1 when Sovereign was planning and fighting to summon the other Reapers ? TWO Reapers would have assuredly won over Shepard and the combined fleet...
Ho! We might answer : he was sleeping and just woke up at the end of ME1...But then...
Waiting for Sovie to activate the Citadel relay so the Reaper ships could use the Citadel trap.


QUESTION 2: in that case, why did he just wake up in that extremely convenient and coincidental time spot?
We must Assume that Reapers can communicate, and due to it being around 52K since the previous cycle, Harbinger wakes up 2K prior to Ask Sovie what's going on

But WAIT! There's more! It is still important to summon the other Reapers isn't it? Sovereign was willing to risk its own existence and spent centuries planning ahead! So it should have been quite important indeed...So... why doesn't Harbinger try to do just that? 
In other words:
QUESTION 3: Why openly alert the galaxy by rapturing humans en-masse, to build just one other Reaper instead of trying again to build a better plan so as to, this time, succeed in summoning the Reapers from Dark Space?
and...
Because they were already delayed, so started building the next capitol ship earlier.

QUESTION 4: Why bother harvesting humans now when they shall be all harvested when the other Reapers come anyway...
Yeah, what is that lame plan of building a baby Reaper when you could unleash absolute destruction over the Galaxy; and build lots of Reaper babies doing so anyway... 
They build a Reaper every cycle. They are continuing that here, we must assume it takes time, and therefore they have decided to jump start production so they can go back to dark space quicker

And then, at the end of Mass Effect 2, we see a whole fleet of Reapers activating....
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
QUESTION 5: What the ù^£$* are these guys doing? Why was it that important for Sovereign to summon them if they are well awake and coming all by themselves? What's the purpose of this so-called "vanguard"? Could'nt he just wait? What did we achieve in Mass Effect?
The Vanguard opens the Citadel relay, meaning that the Reapers flood in and gain acess to the Relays, destroy political power etc. With Sovie dead, they have to traverse Dark space and enter the Galaxy 'manually'. 




So, while I loved Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2 really confused me, there are two Reapers instead of one (and it was important in ME1 that Sovereign was alone...), the Reapers are fine awake by themselves and need not be summoned (and it was important in ME1 that they should be...).

Have I missed something? Could somebody explain? These (perceived) incoherencies really break my suspension of disbelief as I have difficulties making decisions when they don't make sense (let's lose lots of ships destroying Sovereign when we could keep them for the impending doom that will come anyway!) and I'd really welcome an explanation that would help me enjoy more these great games.

Answers, in bold.

Modifié par F4H bandicoot, 14 août 2012 - 11:32 .

[iconoclast_tripod]

Thanks a lot F4H Bandicoot! You really helped to fix it in my mind. Now I go right to Mass Effect 3 with a newfound appreciation of the story.