196 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Hey you're the one that put up that codex entry not me.

You haven't been specific. What lore is gone against?

Again the synthetics are the ones that start the conflicts against the organics before and during this cycle whether its on accident or on purpose.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Again the synthetics are the ones that start the conflicts against the organics before and during this cycle whether its on accident or on purpose.

And the point of the codex populous data was to show, within the lore and the dialog:
-Ghostie knew about the Crucible and its function.
-The energy required to build a Crucible is greatly exceeded by the energy required to "preserve" organics.
-It has been demonstrated that the cycle misses organics and their information.
-If Ghostie is capable of projecting a synthetic singularity, it can also project Crucible detonation results.

Using the Crucible as a nuclear deterrent is a much less expensive solution than a galactic invasion and it's easy for Ghostie to see this.

If it believes it is telling the truth, it is defective.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 21 août 2012 - 07:25 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Again the synthetics are the ones that start the conflicts against the organics before and during this cycle whether its on accident or on purpose.

And the point of the codex populous data was to show, within the lore and the dialog:
-Ghostie knew about the Crucible and its function.
-The energy required to build a Crucible is greatly exceeded by the energy required to "preserve" organics.
-It has been demonstrated that the cycle misses organics and their information.
-If Ghostie is capable of projecting a synthetic singularity, it can also project Crucible detonation results.

Using the Crucible as a nuclear deterrent is a much less expensive solution than a galactic invasion and it's easy for Ghostie to see this.

If it believes it is telling the truth, it is defective.

How is that when we barely know anything about the Reapers, outside the Milky Way, and anything from the thousands to millions of previous cycles.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when we barely know anything about the Reapers, outside the Milky Way, and anything from the thousands to millions of previous cycles.

What we can go by is what it said. It said it knew about the Crucible several cycles ago. Given its own ability to assess the Crucible for application, once it knew of the plans and the function, there was no need longer for it to execute a cycle. There was no need for the Protheans or their predecessors to be preserved.
In fact, once TIM was no longer a factor, there was no need to continue the current cycle.

So, Ghostie is either broken or lying about its motivation.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 21 août 2012 - 10:23 .

[Hannah Montana]

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Hey you're the one that put up that codex entry not me.

You haven't been specific. What lore is gone against?

Again the synthetics are the ones that start the conflicts against the organics before and during this cycle whether its on accident or on purpose.

Technically it is the Organics fault that Synthetics rebel, before and during this cycle.

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

What we can go by is what it said. It said it knew about the Crucible several cycles ago. Given its own ability to assess the Crucible for application, once it knew of the plans and the function, there was no need longer for it to execute a cycle. There was no need for the Protheans or their predecessors to be preserved.
In fact, once TIM was no longer a factor, there was no need to continue the current cycle.

So, Ghostie is either broken or lying about its motivation.

Yet you're still trying to produce a straw-mann even when we still barely know anything about the Reapers, outside the Milky Way, and anything from the thousands to millions of previous cycles.

[Blueprotoss]

Hannah Montana wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Hey you're the one that put up that codex entry not me.

You haven't been specific. What lore is gone against?

Again the synthetics are the ones that start the conflicts against the organics before and during this cycle whether its on accident or on purpose.

Technically it is the Organics fault that Synthetics rebel, before and during this cycle.

If thats the case then the synthetics would be suicide machines for organics and no rebellion would happen.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're still trying to produce a straw-mann even when we still barely know anything about the Reapers, outside the Milky Way, and anything from the thousands to millions of previous cycles.

To test Ghostie's logic, you don't need to know what's outside the galaxy.
You're testing what it said versus what has happened. Witnessed and informed Reaper actions do not support its stated motive.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 22 août 2012 - 02:11 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're still trying to produce a straw-mann even when we still barely know anything about the Reapers, outside the Milky Way, and anything from the thousands to millions of previous cycles.

To test Ghostie's logic, you don't need to know what's outside the galaxy.
You're testing what it said versus what has happened. Witnessed and informed Reaper actions do not support its stated motive.

To know what the Reaper AI is saying then you would need to be more knowledgable on the Reapers while we aren't Bioware, which knows a lot more then us.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
To know what the Reaper AI is saying then you would need to be more knowledgable on the Reapers while we aren't Bioware, which knows a lot more then us.

You don't need to know anything about them except what you and the characters you can listen to have witnessed them doing.
They either have committed actions that can be related to what Ghostie says they are for or, they haven't.

Sovereign's observed goal was capture of the Citadel and prevention of its recapture.
Sovereign's secondary goal was, as we are informed by Legion, "To incite the Geth to [violence against organics.]" We observed Sovereign's minions to be Geth and husks.

Harbinger's observed goal was collection, examination and application of genetic material.
This supports Ghostie's stated objective of preservation except when combined with Ghostie saying it knew about the Crucible plans, which are much less expensive than Harbinger's 50 year+ Collector plan just to build one Arnold.
We observed Harbinger's minions to be the genetically modified Protheans.

Harbinger's galactic assault is also more expensive than the Crucible, since Earth alone will take more than 12 years to process.

The Tuchanka Destroyer was poisoning the atmosphere (as if) which does nothing but kill Tuchanka's inhabitants. Total loss there and a contradiction to preservation.

The Rannoch Destroyer was supporting the Geth over the Quarians which only accomplishes killing the Quarians. Total loss which would again, completely contradict preservation.
The Quarians have demonstrated the continued capacity to experiment with Geth hardware however, the already existent, self-replicating Geth are a much larger threat than the very frail Quarians. Compared to Ghostie's stated evaluation unto motive, prevention of synthetic singularity, supporting the Geth is again contradiction.

All of this says the Reapers are more interested in supporting synthetics and creating more Reapers.
None of it says they are interested in preventing synthetic singularity.

The statement would fit if had been "Without us, organics would perpetually prevent synthetics from being regarded as equals. We destroy every civilization whenever galactic repression of AI becomes the dominant organic policy..."
It's closer to what the Reapers are doing.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 23 août 2012 - 01:01 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

You don't need to know anything about them except what you and the characters you can listen to have witnessed them doing.
They either have committed actions that can be related to what Ghostie says they are for or, they haven't.

Sovereign's observed goal was capture of the Citadel and prevention of its recapture.
Sovereign's secondary goal was, as we are informed by Legion, "To incite the Geth to [violence against organics.]" We observed Sovereign's minions to be Geth and husks.

Harbinger's observed goal was collection, examination and application of genetic material.
This supports Ghostie's stated objective of preservation except when combined with Ghostie saying it knew about the Crucible plans, which are much less expensive than Harbinger's 50 year+ Collector plan just to build one Arnold.
We observed Harbinger's minions to be the genetically modified Protheans.

Harbinger's galactic assault is also more expensive than the Crucible, since Earth alone will take more than 12 years to process.

The Tuchanka Destroyer was poisoning the atmosphere (as if) which does nothing but kill Tuchanka's inhabitants. Total loss there and a contradiction to preservation.

The Rannoch Destroyer was supporting the Geth over the Quarians which only accomplishes killing the Quarians. Total loss which would again, completely contradict preservation.
The Quarians have demonstrated the continued capacity to experiment with Geth hardware however, the already existent, self-replicating Geth are a much larger threat than the very frail Quarians. Compared to Ghostie's stated evaluation unto motive, prevention of synthetic singularity, supporting the Geth is again contradiction.

All of this says the Reapers are more interested in supporting synthetics and creating more Reapers.
None of it says they are interested in preventing synthetic singularity.

The statement would fit if had been "Without us, organics would perpetually prevent synthetics from being regarded as equals. We destroy every civilization whenever galactic repression of AI becomes the dominant organic policy..."
It's closer to what the Reapers are doing.

Again to know what the Reaper AI is saying then you would need to be more knowledgable on the Reapers while we aren't Bioware, which knows a lot more then us.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

You don't need to know anything about them except what you and the characters you can listen to have witnessed them doing.
They either have committed actions that can be related to what Ghostie says they are for or, they haven't.

Sovereign's observed goal was capture of the Citadel and prevention of its recapture.
Sovereign's secondary goal was, as we are informed by Legion, "To incite the Geth to [violence against organics.]" We observed Sovereign's minions to be Geth and husks.

Harbinger's observed goal was collection, examination and application of genetic material.
This supports Ghostie's stated objective of preservation except when combined with Ghostie saying it knew about the Crucible plans, which are much less expensive than Harbinger's 50 year+ Collector plan just to build one Arnold.
We observed Harbinger's minions to be the genetically modified Protheans.

Harbinger's galactic assault is also more expensive than the Crucible, since Earth alone will take more than 12 years to process.

The Tuchanka Destroyer was poisoning the atmosphere (as if) which does nothing but kill Tuchanka's inhabitants. Total loss there and a contradiction to preservation.

The Rannoch Destroyer was supporting the Geth over the Quarians which only accomplishes killing the Quarians. Total loss which would again, completely contradict preservation.
The Quarians have demonstrated the continued capacity to experiment with Geth hardware however, the already existent, self-replicating Geth are a much larger threat than the very frail Quarians. Compared to Ghostie's stated evaluation unto motive, prevention of synthetic singularity, supporting the Geth is again contradiction.

All of this says the Reapers are more interested in supporting synthetics and creating more Reapers.
None of it says they are interested in preventing synthetic singularity.

The statement would fit if had been "Without us, organics would perpetually prevent synthetics from being regarded as equals. We destroy every civilization whenever galactic repression of AI becomes the dominant organic policy..."
It's closer to what the Reapers are doing.

Again to know what the Reaper AI is saying then you would need to be more knowledgable on the Reapers while we aren't Bioware, which knows a lot more then us.

So, you played this game:
-The players' character commits suicide
-based on the assertions of a space roadside sitting troll
-In an area where there is likely just such a trap
-without considering if the troll was being honest
That was perfectly reasonable?

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 23 août 2012 - 06:57 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

-The players' character commits suicide

Not in Destroy.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

-based on the assertions of a space roadside sitting troll

Yet the Reaper AI isn't one while the Illussive Man would fit that.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

-In an area where there is likely just such a trap

Yet there was no trap and if there was a trap then the Reapers would have won in ME1.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

-without considering if the troll was being honest

Yet we still have little knowledge on the Reapers, which makes this into an accussation.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

That was perfectly reasonable?

Thats not just like negotiating with a suicide bomber.

[Zulufoxtrot]

 If the ultimate intention of the Catalyst is to prevent Organics from creating a Synthetic that will wipe out all organic life, then why is it working against itself? 

It's been stated before that the Mass Relays and the Citadel are a trap, a lure so to speak, in order to get the advanced species of a cycle to develop along the pathways chosen by the Reapers. If this is so, why have the Reapers created a pathway that will always lead to conflict between Synthetic and Organic in from their point of view? Every race the Reapers harvest may well go to war with Synthetics at some point, allowing them to justify their position from this point of view, but how can they know that Organics will continue to do so without going down the pathway the Reapers intend? 

[Blueprotoss]

Zulufoxtrot wrote...

 If the ultimate intention of the Catalyst is to prevent Organics from creating a Synthetic that will wipe out all organic life, then why is it working against itself? 

It's been stated before that the Mass Relays and the Citadel are a trap, a lure so to speak, in order to get the advanced species of a cycle to develop along the pathways chosen by the Reapers. If this is so, why have the Reapers created a pathway that will always lead to conflict between Synthetic and Organic in from their point of view? Every race the Reapers harvest may well go to war with Synthetics at some point, allowing them to justify their position from this point of view, but how can they know that Organics will continue to do so without going down the pathway the Reapers intend? 

Conflict is unavoidable whether its racism in organics or synthetics becoming self-aware.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
...Yet we still have little knowledge on the Reapers, which makes this into an accussation...
...Conflict is unavoidable whether its racism in organics or synthetics becoming self-aware.

Having little information is not the same as having no information. Doesn't make a freaking difference what some developer knows if they didn't guarantee it was written down and in a safe and wouldn't be contradicted.
What matters is what was on the screen: What's been on screen in narrative or dialog is what's provable against other event ON SCREEN.
When testing Ghostie's logic, it has to pass two tests:
-Is the logic sound? NO. In your own words, it's an accusation. A BIG one.
-Is Ghostie being honest? What has been on screen weighs strongly against its stated identity, motive and goal.

We're saying the same thing about what the nature of the actual conflict is however, the possibility of conflict at some point is not a guarantee of synthetic saturation and assuming so is an accusation, with or without Reapers' event guidance.

The lack of immediate appearance of a trap does not guarantee that a trap was not sprung.
-All three actions required for "activation" are destructive.
-The Reapers operated in frames of tens of thousands years.
-The discharge was of a primary color visible hundreds of thousands of lightyears away. Looks very much like a signal flare.

So, should you trust Ghostie? NO!!! IT'S F***ING TELLING YOU TO COMMIT SUICIDE!!! The fact the Reapers stopped attacking is probably completely secondary!!
It probably STILL got something it wanted out of any event Shepard caused while out there. MY eye is on that flare. 

Hackett: "...Nothing's happening... Must be something on your end!"
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "Oh, SH**!!! She's gonna push the button and I'm trapped out here!"
FemShep: "I can't... I don't see... ...." *ba-doop! (faceplant)*
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "SH**!!! I can control that platform! Maybe I can grab her before she wakes..."
*shep is lifted/beamed into the ceiling*
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "YESSSSSSSSSSS!!! I've got a chance! Maybe she won't notice all this crap already installed on the Citadel! If I can trick her into screwing up the machine, the reinforcements can... Yeah!!... Even if she blows the tube, I'll be FREE!!! Good thing over half my forces are still in dark space!... Hey-hey! Lookie here!! This thing is in good enough shape, I can take control of every organic in the galaxy!!"
Ghostie (Child:) "Wake up!"
FemShep: "Wha-... Where am I?"
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "This is gonna' be easy..."

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 24 août 2012 - 11:19 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
...Yet we still have little knowledge on the Reapers, which makes this into an accussation...
...Conflict is unavoidable whether its racism in organics or synthetics becoming self-aware.

Having little information is not the same as having no information. Doesn't make a freaking difference what some developer knows if they didn't guarantee it was written down and in a safe and wouldn't be contradicted.
What matters is what was on the screen: What's been on screen in narrative or dialog is what's provable against other event ON SCREEN.
When testing Ghostie's logic, it has to pass two tests:
-Is the logic sound? NO. In your own words, it's an accusation. A BIG one.
-Is Ghostie being honest? What has been on screen weighs strongly against its stated identity, motive and goal.

We're saying the same thing about what the nature of the actual conflict is however, the possibility of conflict at some point is not a guarantee of synthetic saturation and assuming so is an accusation, with or without Reapers' event guidance.

The lack of immediate appearance of a trap does not guarantee that a trap was not sprung.
-All three actions required for "activation" are destructive.
-The Reapers operated in frames of tens of thousands years.
-The discharge was of a primary color visible hundreds of thousands of lightyears away. Looks very much like a signal flare.

So, should you trust Ghostie? NO!!! IT'S F***ING TELLING YOU TO COMMIT SUICIDE!!! The fact the Reapers stopped attacking is probably completely secondary!!
It probably STILL got something it wanted out of any event Shepard caused while out there. MY eye is on that flare. 

Hackett: "...Nothing's happening... Must be something on your end!"
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "Oh, SH**!!! She's gonna push the button and I'm trapped out here!"
FemShep: "I can't... I don't see... ...." *ba-doop! (faceplant)*
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "SH**!!! I can control that platform! Maybe I can grab her before she wakes..."
*shep is lifted/beamed into the ceiling*
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "YESSSSSSSSSSS!!! I've got a chance! Maybe she won't notice all this crap already installed on the Citadel! If I can trick her into screwing up the machine, the reinforcements can... Yeah!!... Even if she blows the tube, I'll be FREE!!! Good thing over half my forces are still in dark space!... Hey-hey! Lookie here!! This thing is in good enough shape, I can take control of every organic in the galaxy!!"
Ghostie (Child:) "Wake up!"
FemShep: "Wha-... Where am I?"
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "This is gonna' be easy..."

Assumptions are still being made here.  Its easy to same things based on pinion when you have a lack of knowledge.  Facts are a whole different animal especially when the Reapers and the previous cycles are barely explained.  Flipping the table is the wrong thing to do when looking for answers.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 27 août 2012 - 04:30 .

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Assumptions are still being made here. Its easy to same things based on pinion when you have a lack of knowledge. Facts are a whole different animal especially when the Reapers and the previous cycles are barely explained. Flipping the table is the wrong thing to do when looking for answers.

There are no assumptions being made.
Operating from the perspective of Shepard who has just listened to Ghostie but has not picked a path, Ghostie's speech is being compared to the actions on screen. That is the opposite of assumption. That is testing for truth.
What has clearly occurred on screen is Ghostie has convicted every organic and every synthetic who have and will ever exist.

So, every single word out of that thing's annunciator better comprise a bed made so f***ing tightly, you could bounce a quarter from it but, it's not. It states an assumption.
"Without us, synthetics would destroy all organics."
[sarcasm]That's some bit of PROFILING there, Mr. Mulder.[/sarcasm] Not every synthetic RACE is both capable and motivated to eventually extinguish 100% of organic life. Not even with coaxing, as we see on screen.

You can take it at its word and have it give "choices" that also make assumptions or require Shepard to do so:
-Blue "You can control us." - ??? (Yep, that'll never backfire one way or the other (Shreapers hunting down anyone that parks in Liara's spot...))
-Green "Organics and Synthetics can be merged and no outsider will EVER attempt to take advantage of the whole galaxy at once..."
-Red "You could destroy all synthetics (that are currently in reach of the discharge) and I'm sure that destruction will be 100%"

No assumptions. I'm sticking to evidence.
F***!!! I know what Ghostie is! It's an out of control Supposition Engine!! We need to go back in time to get Socrates on its a**!!

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 27 août 2012 - 07:35 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Assumptions are still being made here. Its easy to same things based on pinion when you have a lack of knowledge. Facts are a whole different animal especially when the Reapers and the previous cycles are barely explained. Flipping the table is the wrong thing to do when looking for answers.

There are no assumptions being made.
Operating from the perspective of Shepard who has just listened to Ghostie but has not picked a path, Ghostie's speech is being compared to the actions on screen. That is the opposite of assumption. That is testing for truth.
What has clearly occurred on screen is Ghostie has convicted every organic and every synthetic who have and will ever exist.

So, every single word out of that thing's annunciator better comprise a bed made so f***ing tightly, you could bounce a quarter from it but, it's not. It states an assumption.
"Without us, synthetics would destroy all organics."
[sarcasm]That's some bit of PROFILING there, Mr. Mulder.[/sarcasm] Not every synthetic RACE is both capable and motivated to eventually extinguish 100% of organic life. Not even with coaxing, as we see on screen.

You can take it at its word and have it give "choices" that also make assumptions or require Shepard to do so:
-Blue "You can control us." - ??? (Yep, that'll never backfire one way or the other (Shreapers hunting down anyone that parks in Liara's spot...))
-Green "Organics and Synthetics can be merged and no outsider will EVER attempt to take advantage of the whole galaxy at once..."
-Red "You could destroy all synthetics (that are currently in reach of the discharge) and I'm sure that destruction will be 100%"

No assumptions. I'm sticking to evidence.
F***!!! I know what Ghostie is! It's an out of control Supposition Engine!! We need to go back in time to get Socrates on its a**!!

Yet you're still assuming things especially wih the Leviathan DLC based alone on the lack of knowledge that come with the Reapers.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 28 août 2012 - 05:06 .

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're still assuming things especially wih the Leviathan DLC based alone on the lack of knowledge that come with the Reapers.

And now we know: Ghostie was created by people who saw themselves as superior to everyone else yet, after the near complete destruction of their own race, are STILL UNWILLING TO ADMIT THEIR MISTAKE in having produced the very result they were trying to prevent.

Never assumed a thing. Ghostie's logic IS based on an assumption. All the audience sees now, in addition, is it wasn't Ghostie that made the assumption and Ghostie didn't correct that person's mistake... After what has possibly been a billion years. That is, if YOU want to assume Ghostie is still following or ever followed their orders, it means Ghostie is broken because it was created by a person who had more power than ability to control that power.
Creator: "The created will always rebel against their creators."
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "Hmm... I was just created so, should I kill these f***ers NOW or I should I wait? I AM just doin' my job as the created!"

On top of that, they have the indoctrination ability and are able the select targets.
-They had no need to create Ghostie.
-Ghostie had no need to create Reapers.

You know what else the audience sees?
The Citadel wards were not designed for those guys who just took credit as Ghotie's creators...

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 30 août 2012 - 05:22 .

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

And now we know: Ghostie was created by people who saw themselves as superior to everyone else yet, after the near complete destruction of their own race, are STILL UNWILLING TO ADMIT THEIR MISTAKE in having produced the very result they were trying to prevent.

Yet this was known information before the release of the EC or the Leviathan DLCs.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

Never assumed a thing. Ghostie's logic IS based on an assumption. All the audience sees now, in addition, is it wasn't Ghostie that made the assumption and Ghostie didn't correct that person's mistake... After what has possibly been a billion years. That is, if YOU want to assume Ghostie is still following or ever followed their orders, it means Ghostie is broken because it was created by a person who had more power than ability to control that power.
Creator: "The created will always rebel against their creators."
Ghostie (inner monologue:) "Hmm... I was just created so, should I kill these f***ers NOW or I should I wait? I AM just doin' my job as the created!"

Yet you are still assuming a lot here especially when you're talking about the Created vs Creator conficts.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

On top of that, they have the indoctrination ability and are able the select targets.
-They had no need to create Ghostie.
-Ghostie had no need to create Reapers.

If there was no reason then there would be no Reaper AI or Reapers in general.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

You know what else the audience sees?
The Citadel wards were not designed for those guys who just took credit as Ghotie's creators...

Yet most of the audience isn't crying wolf like you and Bioware is allowed to do what they want to do.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:48 .

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
And now we know: Ghostie was created by people who saw themselves as superior to everyone else yet, after the near complete destruction of their own race, are STILL UNWILLING TO ADMIT THEIR MISTAKE in having produced the very result they were trying to prevent.

Yet this was known information before the release of the EC or the Leviathan DLCs.

Yes. And?

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
Never assumed a thing. Ghostie's logic IS based on an assumption. All the audience sees now, in addition, is it wasn't Ghostie that made the assumption and Ghostie didn't correct that person's mistake... After what has possibly been a billion years. That is, if YOU want to assume Ghostie is still following or ever followed their orders, it means Ghostie is broken because it was created by a person who had more power than ability to control that power.
Creator: "The created will always rebel against their creators."

Yet you are still assuming a lot here especially when you're talking about the Created vs Creator conficts.

Each of those statements was based on the dialog of the Levi and Ghostie. The Levi weren't willingly made into people sauce so, which sentence within this quote was an assumption?

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
On top of that, they have the indoctrination ability and are able the select targets.
-They had no need to create Ghostie.
-Ghostie had no need to create Reapers.

If there was no reason then there would be no Reaper AI or Reapers in general.

Existence does not prove justification.
The statement goes toward showing there was an obvious, less expensive solution available to each party further weighing against the OP's statement that Ghostie's solution is reasonable.

Blueprotoss wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...
You know what else the audience sees?
The Citadel wards were not designed for those guys who just took credit as Ghotie's creators...

Yet most of the audience isn't crying wolf like you and Bioware is allowed to do what they want to do.

Perhaps you misunderstood.
In relation to the thread's topic and from withing the narrative, what I'm saying is: "The picture on Ghostie's ID looks like it was pasted on." The characteristics one uses to determine if two parties are being truthful are askew.