Well, as I said, they've already established that the Chantry's mythology is partially right. I'd like to see more Dalish stuff now.
Flemeth is Fen'Harel (Details that hint at this)
Débuté par
The Night Haunter
, août 14 2012 07:01
Retour en haut
#27
Posté 23 août 2012 - 06:18
hitorihanzo
-
- Members
- 432 messages
I can understand that. I think that there is room in the game (DA3) to show both. They did it in DA:O.
#28
Posté 23 août 2012 - 06:55
The Night Haunter
-
- Members
- 2 968 messages
Personally I think the Maker is just the Elven Gods (and I only call them Elven Gods because the elves worshipped them first, they dont necessarily have to be elven, they are just gods/god-like beings that elves found and worshipped) masquerading (or being misinterpreted) as the Maker. If Fen'Harel's codex is right and he did banish the Creators to the heavens then that could mean the Fade and/or the Black City.
#29
Posté 23 août 2012 - 07:33
Fiacre
-
- Members
- 501 messages
I've always kind of liked the idea that Fen'Harel is the Maker, having himself worshipped as the sole God after banishing his brethren. I don't really count on that being the case though. And I do like the idea that Flemeth is Fen'Harel, as well.
#30
Posté 23 août 2012 - 10:44
Androme
-
- Members
- 757 messages
Renmiri1 wrote...
Why did Morrigan and Flemeth wanted to do it ? Their stated reason was to "preserve" an Old God. Maybe someone else had the same idea 400 years ago ?Androme wrote...
I suspect Flemeth is an Old God Baby from a previous Blight.. Someone made a Dark Ritual and Flemeth was born.. An Old God is a dragon and has powerful magic. OGBs are untainted and are born as humans...
Very very interesting indeed, but lacks purpose.
Why would you do that? To what end?
Yeah, but after the events of DAO they are both working actively against eachother, Flemeth is up to something big, and Morrigan is working against her mother, be it out of vengeance for wanting to use Morrigan as a vessel, or because Morrigan didn't like what she found out about her mother, because she DID learn something about Flemeth that is yet to be revealed to the player, as stated by both Anders and more importantly Morrigan.
Now what I'm trying to get at is, if Morrigan wants to preserve the soul of an old god aswell (as she states is one of the reasons she is out after an OGB), she wouldn't be working against Flemeth for BEING an OGB. That means Flemeth is up to something ELSE than just trying to preserve the soul of an old god herself.
Oh this is all so confusing.. And GW2 is gonna get released in a couple of days, no time for DA!
#31
Posté 06 décembre 2012 - 12:21
lil yonce
-
- Members
- 2 319 messages
If so, the Elven Creators aren't very impressive gods-- being tricked and banished by Fen'Harel, hiding their true nature. Certainly not all-powerful and supreme, which is typically how creators are described. Fen'Harel would be the most powerful being in this situation, but trickster gods aren't usually creators. So, I think the Maker is a single and seperate being that is above Fen'Harel, the Creators, and the Old Gods/Forgotten Ones, and I think he is the Creator. But this theory is very interesting.ghostmessiah202 wrote...
Personally I think the Maker is just the Elven Gods (and I only call them Elven Gods because the elves worshipped them first, they dont necessarily have to be elven, they are just gods/god-like beings that elves found and worshipped) masquerading (or being misinterpreted) as the Maker. If Fen'Harel's codex is right and he did banish the Creators to the heavens then that could mean the Fade and/or the Black City.
Modifié par Youth4Ever, 06 décembre 2012 - 03:00 .
#32
Posté 15 avril 2013 - 05:08
ultimatekotorfan
-
- Members
- 152 messages
Fiacre wrote...
I've always kind of liked the idea that Fen'Harel is the Maker, having himself worshipped as the sole God after banishing his brethren. I don't really count on that being the case though. And I do like the idea that Flemeth is Fen'Harel, as well.
Why not all three? That would be interesting.
#33
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 04:02
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
If she is a god, she doesn't seem the type who cares to be followed or worshipped. So far at least.
#34
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 10:32
Sifr
-
- Members
- 6 796 messages
I'm not sure about Fen'Harel, but I'd wager doughnuts that she's the Lady of the Skies that the Avvar's worship.
The Maker seems more likely to be Fen'Harel to me.
The Maker seems more likely to be Fen'Harel to me.
#35
Posté 19 mai 2013 - 07:54
Exile Isan
-
- Members
- 1 843 messages
Wouldn't it be funny if the Maker, Fen'Heral, the Lady of the Skies, etc where all the same person and all Flemeth?
#36
Posté 22 mai 2013 - 02:42
WhiteKnyght
-
- Members
- 3 755 messages
One thing that belies this argument. Dalish culture treats Fen'Harel like he's the devil and the Dalish are supposed to avoid him like he's the plague.
But the Dalish obey Flemeth when she asks of them. (Bringing Maric to her - performing the ritual to resurrect her from that amulet she gave Hawke)
That fact invalidates the entire theory.
There's also a little gem of dialogue from the Lady of the Forest in Dragon Age Origins that flat out states that Whitherfang is the Dread Wolf. Zathrian bound the spirit of the forest to the Dread Wolf and it became her/Witherfang.
To hear the line, you have to convince the werewolves to eradicate the Dalish tribe.
But the Dalish obey Flemeth when she asks of them. (Bringing Maric to her - performing the ritual to resurrect her from that amulet she gave Hawke)
That fact invalidates the entire theory.
There's also a little gem of dialogue from the Lady of the Forest in Dragon Age Origins that flat out states that Whitherfang is the Dread Wolf. Zathrian bound the spirit of the forest to the Dread Wolf and it became her/Witherfang.
To hear the line, you have to convince the werewolves to eradicate the Dalish tribe.
Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 22 mai 2013 - 02:43 .
#37
Posté 22 mai 2013 - 08:12
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 912 messages
If Flemeth is the Dread Wolf, the Dalish don't know it. They only know her as Asha'bellanar.
Looking over the scene where the Warden sides with the werewolves, I'm pretty certain that The Lady of the Forest isn't talking about Fen'Harel, just a powerful wolf. The subtitles aren't capitalized. She also talks about herself like Witherfang is only powerful because Zathrien bound a spirit into him, not that he bound her to a god. None of the Dalish seem to make note of the fact that Zathrien would have interacted with one of the most feared beings they've ever known.
Looking over the scene where the Warden sides with the werewolves, I'm pretty certain that The Lady of the Forest isn't talking about Fen'Harel, just a powerful wolf. The subtitles aren't capitalized. She also talks about herself like Witherfang is only powerful because Zathrien bound a spirit into him, not that he bound her to a god. None of the Dalish seem to make note of the fact that Zathrien would have interacted with one of the most feared beings they've ever known.
#38
Posté 30 mai 2013 - 05:51
Sashimi_taco
-
- Members
- 2 579 messages
What if Flemeth is Uzura? It would explain why she wanted to save Urthemiel, because then he would be her father. Also would explain her still being the dread wolf, as she might only be part old god.
#39
Posté 14 juin 2013 - 03:15
WhiteKnyght
-
- Members
- 3 755 messages
Sashimi_taco wrote...
What if Flemeth is Uzura? It would explain why she wanted to save Urthemiel, because then he would be her father. Also would explain her still being the dread wolf, as she might only be part old god.
Would make the most sense that Flemeth is a dragon equivalent of a mage who wishes to restore her kind to power.
She talks about a world that wronged her and a hatred and disgust of humans, when humans were the ones who nearly drove Dragons to extinction, and it was seemingly by her own doing that any were preserved.
She opposes the taint and supports the Grey Wardens who battle the Blight, when the taint corrupts the Old Gods, the most powerful of the ancient dragons, and her support of the Wardens had recycling Urthemiel's soul as her ulterior motive.
Also the comics talked about a series of dragons known as the "Great Dragons" the last of which Yavana needed Maric or Alistair's blood to reawaken. It's possible that the Great Dragons are the Old Gods, and with Maric's help they already revived one, and that was the last one, sleeping in Antiva.
#40
Posté 15 juin 2013 - 07:41
Dayze
-
- Members
- 295 messages
Fen'Harel could be the maker I suppose; maybe thats why the Maker "abandoned" his children, maybe he didn't abadon them. maybe he just got bored with being worshipped and decided to do something else that was fun for awhile.
#41
Posté 15 juin 2013 - 08:26
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 912 messages
I've long believed that Flemeth is in some way connected to Fen'harel, although in what way I'm not sure. Servant? Wife? Daughter? Adversary? Fen'Harel himself? It's possible but I hope not. My theory is that Fen'Harel is the mastermind behind the all the chaos in the world and if we ever do run into him, I think he'd be something the likes of which we've never seen before. Flemeth herself even seems to imply that there are far greater powers than her when she first meets the Warden.
The theory that Fen'Harel is the Maker has never made sense to me. From what we know of him, he a villainous figure who "hates kindness and wisdom." Why is the Chant full of things he hates? Why would he intervene in the affairs of mortals to make the world a better place? Because Andraste's Exalted March did make the world a much better place by freeing most of it from Tevinter tyranny.
According to legend he found the Fall of Arlathan to be hilarious. Freeing the elves doesn't seem like it would be his highest priority.
If there are any points in history that I think one might possibly detect his secret influence, it's the First Blight. Perhaps his was the voice that the Magisters thought was Dumat, promising them the Golden City. Maybe he was secretly the images of the Old Gods that appeared to the first Magisters in their dreams allowing them to found the Tevinter Imperium and conquer Arlathan. But I feel like if anything, unleashing the Blights seems more his style.
He tricked the most powerful mortals in the world into corrupting themselves and the world. Unleashed a terrible plague upon the world that cost countless lives and even seemed to eliminated potential rivals by turning he Old Gods into Archdemons.
The theory that Fen'Harel is the Maker has never made sense to me. From what we know of him, he a villainous figure who "hates kindness and wisdom." Why is the Chant full of things he hates? Why would he intervene in the affairs of mortals to make the world a better place? Because Andraste's Exalted March did make the world a much better place by freeing most of it from Tevinter tyranny.
According to legend he found the Fall of Arlathan to be hilarious. Freeing the elves doesn't seem like it would be his highest priority.
If there are any points in history that I think one might possibly detect his secret influence, it's the First Blight. Perhaps his was the voice that the Magisters thought was Dumat, promising them the Golden City. Maybe he was secretly the images of the Old Gods that appeared to the first Magisters in their dreams allowing them to found the Tevinter Imperium and conquer Arlathan. But I feel like if anything, unleashing the Blights seems more his style.
He tricked the most powerful mortals in the world into corrupting themselves and the world. Unleashed a terrible plague upon the world that cost countless lives and even seemed to eliminated potential rivals by turning he Old Gods into Archdemons.
#42
Posté 16 juin 2013 - 02:51
Dayze
-
- Members
- 295 messages
Of course; factoring in OGB Fen'harel may have been trying to free the old gods with the blights.
Your also working on the assumption that Fen'Harel has a long term plan, maybe after so long with none of the other Forgotten Ones or the Creators around to do anything with, Fen is simply bored?
On the other hand; he's a trickster god, not quite the same thing as a devil figure, as an entity Fen walked the line between good and evil, thats why both Creators and Forgotten trusted him.
Because he was a morally ambigious creature. So it was still reasonable for one side or the other to trust him.
Of course; Andraste's march also caused much chaos, probably thinned the veil in several places and lead to the oppression of the mages. It could be argued it simply replaced one form of Tyranny with another.
Your also working on the assumption that Fen'Harel has a long term plan, maybe after so long with none of the other Forgotten Ones or the Creators around to do anything with, Fen is simply bored?
On the other hand; he's a trickster god, not quite the same thing as a devil figure, as an entity Fen walked the line between good and evil, thats why both Creators and Forgotten trusted him.
Because he was a morally ambigious creature. So it was still reasonable for one side or the other to trust him.
Of course; Andraste's march also caused much chaos, probably thinned the veil in several places and lead to the oppression of the mages. It could be argued it simply replaced one form of Tyranny with another.
#43
Posté 18 juin 2013 - 12:18
Jedi Master of Orion
-
- Members
- 6 912 messages
As wars go, Andraste's Exalted March was fairly short. I think it has to be fairly low on the list of wars that devastated the face of Thedas, I mean humanity had just survived a 200 year blight by an enemy that sought their extermination. I would think it was pretty minor in contrast. If Fen'Harel really wanted another war to spin the world into chaos I feel like he could have done much better.
The oppression of the Tevinter Imperium is said to be much worse than than even the flaws of the Chantry.
"At the height of its power, the Tevinter Imperium stretched over much of Thedas, uniting the known world under the rule of the tyrannical magisters. It is said that the Old Gods whom the magisters worshipped gave them the knowledge of blood magic, and the magisters used this forbidden power to cement their rule. The blood of elven slaves and humans alike ran down imperial altars to fuel magister greed, the tales of their excesses so horrifying that one can only be grateful that blood magic is prohibited today." - Codex Entry: The First Blight: Chapter 1
More importantly though, the system that oppresses mages came much later. It was a creation of future worshipers of the Maker based on some fairly vauge and benign sections of the Chant of Light. It wasn't said to be a specific part of the Exalted March's end goals.
The oppression of the Tevinter Imperium is said to be much worse than than even the flaws of the Chantry.
"At the height of its power, the Tevinter Imperium stretched over much of Thedas, uniting the known world under the rule of the tyrannical magisters. It is said that the Old Gods whom the magisters worshipped gave them the knowledge of blood magic, and the magisters used this forbidden power to cement their rule. The blood of elven slaves and humans alike ran down imperial altars to fuel magister greed, the tales of their excesses so horrifying that one can only be grateful that blood magic is prohibited today." - Codex Entry: The First Blight: Chapter 1
More importantly though, the system that oppresses mages came much later. It was a creation of future worshipers of the Maker based on some fairly vauge and benign sections of the Chant of Light. It wasn't said to be a specific part of the Exalted March's end goals.
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 20 juin 2013 - 10:44 .
