22 réponses à ce sujet

[Steel Majere343]

so im seeing a lot of posts that are talking about troubles with the game, i know this has been done before but some of the actual tip threads out there arnt that helpfull in some of the ways i think some people want.
a lot of tip threads out there just tell people how to play but dont really adress or acknowledge the problems many people have.
idk how well this thread will work but whynot post it.

First id like to TRY to adress the difficulty debate. which is, essentially, made up of those who think the game is too easy, and those who are wondering how it is possible for those people to think that. If you find yourself cursing that guy who says he played it on hard without ever turning down the difficulty, letme explain.

most of the time these people simply throw that out there without actually telling any of the tricks they employ to do so.
for one, people who find normal too easy, or even hard, plan their builds. They may not be elitists but they already know where the power is in this game and they go for that. Everything from having a spirit healer, then hording potions, then using loads of CC, then certain spells (like misdirection hex or forcefield) are all looked at here.
If you are either new to this game or have no desire to micro-manage your skill progression (which is to map out what skills are the best/most usefull then actively persue them in the progression trees) you are, more then likely, not going to be complaining that its too easy.

so im going to try to give some tips without telling you what to do but revealing some options to you and what you maybe should do. Without telling you to do something like get this specific spell or this weapon.

For one most people will need healing. there are ways around healing through the use (in some ways exploitation) of the forcefield spell or other spells. But generally you will want to look at the two forms of healing VERY closely.

we've got potions and magical healing. For most people to survive on normal you will either need to employ one of these to their fullest potential or use a moderate amount of both methods.

if you decide to persue just one you wont need to focus on the other at all (that is generally speaking, this game has A LOT of variables so you may still find some parts really difficult). A full fledged spirit healer, with all talents learned and the first tree of creation learned will have you using almost no potions. It is essential you have BOTH though. the spirit healing spells and the first line of creation spells. The first line of creation includes vitals like healing and regeneration, spirit healer has group healing, lifeward and a constant regeneration spell. all of these together should make potions a thing of the past.

If you dont want to go the spirit healer rout you can do a little of both by teaching one of your mages the first line of creation and using the potions you find. You should find enough to wear you can get by, though this is a little less reliable then focusing on one form, it still works great.

if you want to rely on potions you will need to make friends with the vendor at the dalish camp. Make sure you do not attack the dalish or else you will lose him and be forced to rely on magical healing methods. This is usefull if you just want to play unorthadox and play without a mage, potions can, if you make enough, effectively replace a healer completely. be sure to constantly stock up.

any other general tips to add here?

[Sereaph502]

That's kind of a weak tip, to be honest.



Just because you have a healer doesn't mean you can instantly go through nightmare, for example.

[Alphakiller]

after reading that entire chunk of text, the only thing you retained is healer advice...?

he was giving far more advice than that, and he also said that he was only stating things that he had noticed were missed in most other posts of a similar type.

[Dragon Age1103]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

so im seeing a lot of posts that are talking about troubles with the game, i know this has been done before but some of the actual tip threads out there arnt that helpfull in some of the ways i think some people want.
a lot of tip threads out there just tell people how to play but dont really adress or acknowledge the problems many people have.
idk how well this thread will work but whynot post it.

First id like to TRY to adress the difficulty debate. which is, essentially, made up of those who think the game is too easy, and those who are wondering how it is possible for those people to think that. If you find yourself cursing that guy who says he played it on hard without ever turning down the difficulty, letme explain.

most of the time these people simply throw that out there without actually telling any of the tricks they employ to do so.
for one, people who find normal too easy, or even hard, plan their builds. They may not be elitists but they already know where the power is in this game and they go for that. Everything from having a spirit healer, then hording potions, then using loads of CC, then certain spells (like misdirection hex or forcefield) are all looked at here.
If you are either new to this game or have no desire to micro-manage your skill progression (which is to map out what skills are the best/most usefull then actively persue them in the progression trees) you are, more then likely, not going to be complaining that its too easy.

so im going to try to give some tips without telling you what to do but revealing some options to you and what you maybe should do. Without telling you to do something like get this specific spell or this weapon.

For one most people will need healing. there are ways around healing through the use (in some ways exploitation) of the forcefield spell or other spells. But generally you will want to look at the two forms of healing VERY closely.

we've got potions and magical healing. For most people to survive on normal you will either need to employ one of these to their fullest potential or use a moderate amount of both methods.

if you decide to persue just one you wont need to focus on the other at all (that is generally speaking, this game has A LOT of variables so you may still find some parts really difficult). A full fledged spirit healer, with all talents learned and the first tree of creation learned will have you using almost no potions. It is essential you have BOTH though. the spirit healing spells and the first line of creation spells. The first line of creation includes vitals like healing and regeneration, spirit healer has group healing, lifeward and a constant regeneration spell. all of these together should make potions a thing of the past.

If you dont want to go the spirit healer rout you can do a little of both by teaching one of your mages the first line of creation and using the potions you find. You should find enough to wear you can get by, though this is a little less reliable then focusing on one form, it still works great.

if you want to rely on potions you will need to make friends with the vendor at the dalish camp. Make sure you do not attack the dalish or else you will lose him and be forced to rely on magical healing methods. This is usefull if you just want to play unorthadox and play without a mage, potions can, if you make enough, effectively replace a healer completely. be sure to constantly stock up.

any other general tips to add here?

This is a good idea for a thread but sadly I can't think of anything to add some ppl use exploits. Like casting spells from very far away, summoning a wolf, bear, or spider with the archer specialization & running it in a room until it falls in battle just so rinse & repeat until victory.
   Sadly this game isn't for everyone, you do NOT have to plan out your char every step of the way but it helps to know a general direction.
   I don't know what to really add just do what you like & play on a difficulty that is fun for you. For example Nightmare is too easy for me but I use everything to my advantage not really any exploits but i lay traps in a narrow corridor so they can't be avoided, stealth an enemy & hit him hard with arrow of slaying then they run threw the traps, throw a couple bombs. pull aggro with my tank then focus on DPS with my dual wielding warrior all while Wynne manages healing on her own usually from afar.
   If you have patience & can pick up on the learning cuve then this game will become pretty easy rather quickly but if you lack patience don't worry about playing on nightmare just play & enjoy the game at your level.
   Back to tips, save all your money sell anything you do not need & always have someone in your party to make potions for you. Spend a good chunk of change of ingrediants for those potions & get a good tactics set up experiment with the tactics tab see what works!!!

[Steel Majere343]

Sereaph502 wrote...

That's kind of a weak tip, to be honest.

Just because you have a healer doesn't mean you can instantly go through nightmare, for example.

..i didnt say anything about nightmare  lol.

im talking about normal difficulty and just some things that might actually help give some options to those that are having difficulty.

of course just getting a healer wont make nightmare easier but having a good healing method will make normal that much more fun for those that are frusterated.

i could have added more but i tend to ramble, and the txt was long enough as it was so i didnt want to make it so long as to turn people away from the thread.

so for now i just added some healing tips that i think a lot of people may miss or not think thoroughly about.

ya theres the exploits, post those if you want as well. i just want to throw options out there so that people dont think there is only  one way to play the game. but there are options and diffrent ways to achieve the same things.

such as the ways to heal.

that way if there is someone frusterated and they come by this post they wont think that the ONLY WAY to play the game and be good is to get one specific spell or make a specific choice. but options that every player can access.

Not just tips like..oh.well. get juggernaut armor.

[bas273]

You can use exploits and/or cheats, this is a singleplayer game after all.
For example: when facing a large group of enemies, you can lure them to the rest of your party one-by-one by simply attacking them at a long range (archer/mage). IMO you're using an exploit if you do this and it makes the game much easier.
What if you let your main tank use Taunt and some other talents to attract attention and then you cast Force Field on him? I don't think that's an exploit, Force Field is a spell. So this can be considered as a tip how to make the game easier.
Now then, here are some tips
- Don't rush. If you beat the game in less than 60 hours, that is bad. You don't have to read all the Codex entries but don't ignore sidequests! Sidequests make you stronger and you get some money and loot from them. Don't leave Lothering before you've completed all the quests on the Chanter's Board. As a matter of fact, I usually go to Denerim right after Lothering to complete the sidequests there.
- Save! Quicksave after every battle and create new saves every hour or so. Sometimes you'll have to reload because you either died or made a wrong choice. If your last save was more than an hour ago, all that playing time was for nothing.
- On Nightmare difficulty, a party of four Warriors will not suffice. The best party includes a main tank, rogue and two damage dealers. You need the Rogue to open locked chests, make him either a backstabber or an archer (actually the Rogue is also a damage dealer). You'll also need a Mage with some devastating attacks (Tempest, Blizzard, Cone of Cold, Lightning...) and good healing spells. Wynne is an excellent healer and if you teach her some Primal spells she can also be a damage dealer. Having both Wynne and Morrigan in your party is actually a very good idea . Some party layout examples:
a) Alistair (main tank), Leliana (archer, rogue), Wynne (healer and damage dealer) and Oghren/Sten (damage dealer). Teach Alistair all the Sword & Shield talents, Leliana needs Lockpicking, Dirty Fighting and all Archery talents, Wynne needs Group Heal, Heal and some Primal spells and Oghren/Sten are Two-Handed Warriors.
 Shale (main tank), Zevran (backstabber, rogue), Wynne (healer and damge dealer) and Morrigan (damage dealer). Specailise Zevran in Dual Wielding. Teach Morrigan some Primal spells and Crushing Prison, Glyph of Repulsion etc.

[Steel Majere343]

bas273 wrote...

You can use exploits and/or cheats, this is a singleplayer game after all.
For example: when facing a large group of enemies, you can lure them to the rest of your party one-by-one by simply attacking them at a long range (archer/mage). IMO you're using an exploit if you do this and it makes the game much easier.
What if you let your main tank use Taunt and some other talents to attract attention and then you cast Force Field on him? I don't think that's an exploit, Force Field is a spell. So this can be considered as a tip how to make the game easier.
Now then, here are some tips
- Don't rush. If you beat the game in less than 60 hours, that is bad. You don't have to read all the Codex entries but don't ignore sidequests! Sidequests make you stronger and you get some money and loot from them. Don't leave Lothering before you've completed all the quests on the Chanter's Board. As a matter of fact, I usually go to Denerim right after Lothering to complete the sidequests there.
- Save! Quicksave after every battle and create new saves every hour or so. Sometimes you'll have to reload because you either died or made a wrong choice. If your last save was more than an hour ago, all that playing time was for nothing.
- On Nightmare difficulty, a party of four Warriors will not suffice. The best party includes a main tank, rogue and two damage dealers. You need the Rogue to open locked chests, make him either a backstabber or an archer (actually the Rogue is also a damage dealer). You'll also need a Mage with some devastating attacks (Tempest, Blizzard, Cone of Cold, Lightning...) and good healing spells. Wynne is an excellent healer and if you teach her some Primal spells she can also be a damage dealer. Having both Wynne and Morrigan in your party is actually a very good idea . Some party layout examples:
a) Alistair (main tank), Leliana (archer, rogue), Wynne (healer and damage dealer) and Oghren/Sten (damage dealer). Teach Alistair all the Sword & Shield talents, Leliana needs Lockpicking, Dirty Fighting and all Archery talents, Wynne needs Group Heal, Heal and some Primal spells and Oghren/Sten are Two-Handed Warriors.
 Shale (main tank), Zevran (backstabber, rogue), Wynne (healer and damge dealer) and Morrigan (damage dealer). Specailise Zevran in Dual Wielding. Teach Morrigan some Primal spells and Crushing Prison, Glyph of Repulsion etc.

oh this reminds me, this game possibly does the worst job of preparing the player and clueing them in on how to play.

and this game does require a very specific way of play. (at least in comparison to most games out there). if you are playing on normal, you'll want a tank, dps, and healer, unless your going the potions rout. but generally i always have at least one spirit healer. i dont like drinking a whole bunch of potions, its not fun to me.

And the game never really tells you this nor is the healer role even set up very well.

impo it would have been way WAY better to have the class archtypes include healer along with mage, tank, and rogue. That would have made it clearer. having proper party balance is integral to success and, generally, the fun level of the game. You would think that since it is so essential it would be explained to the player that a proper  party consists of a tank, dps, dps, and healer. i cant say how many friends of mine were so irritated they sold the game back on ebay because they had no idea why they kept dying, even on easy, to the point it wasnt even fun.

come to find out they were missing important elements. Some of them would have parties made up of entirely warriors, because thats how they wanted to play, some of them were building their warriors to have high magic because it said that effects potion healing which they figured thatd make the game easier.

all in all there SHOULD be more direction given to the players on how to approach this game instead of just throwing them out there and hopefully they have played an MMO before.

even on casual if you do too many things unorthedox then you wont have very much fun being tossed around the room lol.

[Blazing Impact]

its good that people like you are willing to help people like me. thank you

[Steel Majere343]

lol hey so this thread is working, good stuff.

[Ambaryerno]

I use a combination of heal spells and potions for one very good reason:

Heal and Group Heal are really pretty weak. Targeted heal isn't much better, if any, than a lesser poultice, and while group heal can heal your entire party the amount of heal isn't much better than the targeted heal. This is ESPECIALLY important when fighting some of the higher-level enemies who can wipe out the effects of a heal spell with ONE HIT.

Standard Poultices don't require a big chunk of change to get the components to make, and are more than double the effectiveness of heal spells.

I feel more confident having a combination of poultices and heal spells than one or the other alone. With the spells I can heal a party member who may be uncontrollable (Horror, CoC'ed, etc) and I have a reserve in case I'm out of potions. But the potions keep me alive LONGER because of their greater effectiveness.

There REALLY needs to be more powerful heal spells, or it needs to level a LOT better than it does.

Modifié par Ambaryerno, 23 décembre 2009 - 03:43 .

[Steel Majere343]

i agree with that point. as i was saying elsewear i believe healer should be an archtype all on its own. i hate making all those potions though. and yes heal barely even heals for much when you tank is being mobbed by 10-15 enemies at once. every game i have to rely on an obscene amount of potions to get me through a majority of the fights, especially random encounters. if i run out i just immediately turn down the difficulty until i get more. i dont feel like being frusterated due to my lack of supplies lol.

[AiTenshi1]

I want to post a couple general comments, then offer a couple tips.



A lot of the results depends on a person's specific style of play, including specific party composition and member development. I play all female (except near the beginning when you don't have all four females, of course). No problems even on Nightmare (aside from the broken Tactics and specific bugs, etc, but that's true for any difficulty and is not related to strategy and/or tips, per se). In addition, I only play on Hard or Nightmare in order to obtain the Friendly Fire concern (very silly of Bioware to not include that as an option on Options screen rather than attaching it to difficulty settings).



Despite what some people claim, including the official guide, I am happy to state that NO, you do not need to have the stereotypical party of tank, DPS, healer, etc, and especially not in Easy or Normal mode (and I'd even add Hard mode, myself, as this approach not being necessary at all). Even for Nightmare mode, you don't really need to worry much about tanking, per se. Morrigan and Leliana can handle almost anything if handled properly and strategically.



Likewise, I can say that no, using distance spells and various other skills as they are intended to be used is not cheating, exploiting, or anything underhanded. On the contrary, it is roleplaying the characters as they are meant to behave according to having those specific skills and related approach to solving problems/conflicts. Likewise, having a warrior decked out in the heaviest armor with tons of magical protections plow through everything is not cheating, exploiting, or anything else remotely underhanded. These and other examples are allowed by the game because all of them are different approaches to resolving conflicts and obstacles. After all, how else should we roleplay characters who have such skills? Avoiding roleplaying in a roleplaying game or claiming that roleplaying according to certain skill sets is somehow "cheating" or "exploitative" makes no sense.



As for specific tips (according to my play style, character development, and party compositon, mind you), I can offer a couple pointers.



1) Grab everything and sell anything you don't need in order to generate income, especially during the first half or so. This includes stripping everything off NPC who will die or leave the party (for example, Jowan and Lily don't need their equipment once you lead Jowan to his phylactery, and the NPCs who join you for the Joining are going to die, anyway, so they certainly don't need theirs). The economy in this game, like many modern RPGs, is horribly broken and unrealistic, so don't let it get you down or encourage you to waste your very limited resources.



2) Crank out basic "Lesser" health and lyrium poultices. Keep your stock around 90-100 of each. In addition, keep a "resource stock" (elfroot, lyrium dust, and lots of flasks) of around 200-400 each (more of the flasks since they are used for both as well as other stuff such as poison). Why only the "Lesser" even on Nightmare? Well, because the cost/benefit ratio for the higher level potions is incredibly poor, and you'll actually pick up a fair number of the higher items anyway. Of course, near the end game, you may want to make some of the higher potions, but even then you should be able to limit it due to the ridiculously unbalanced cost/benefit of the resources needed to make them (plus the recipes, of course). [see tip #10 below]



3) Buy all tomes and use them before the Landsmeet, but probably just before, as they are not really needed earlier.



4) Do all possible optional/side quests, especially any that result in "bonus" items that are very useful for your PC. For example, the "Key to the City" in Orzammar is a quest and item that gives you +2 on all attributes when equipped.



5) In many encounters, especially ambushes, Hold Position is your friend! This is especially true in the latter part of the game when enemies often have traps laid all over the place. Just pay attention to your party and help them if needed, even taking control of someone if necessary. For example, if Morrigan is surrounded and taking abuse, and if she has her next Cold chain spell (Cone of Cold) after her initial two she always has, switch to her and freeze the enemes solid! Having Wynne's Tactics (and Lelianna's, eventually) set to cast Stone Fist on any enemy who is immobilized is quite helpful. In areas where Ohgren has to be a party member, I have had him take out 3 enemies in one sweep after freezing them. Same thing applies to combos like Grease and Fireball - set the Grease, aggro enemies with a long distance AoE, arrow, etc, and blast them as they run into the Grease. The game gives combo spells for a reason - use them!



6) Max or near max (at least level 3) lines of primary abilities (spells/talents) or you will regret it greatly later when the enemies have maxed abilities. Base notice: you should be able to max 3 chains of spells/talents plus your 2 specializations, and still have a couple of points to spare. Plan ahead or suffer.



7) Don't hesitate to switch equipment so that characters have maximized their capabilities at any point.



8) Go after personal quests and give gifts so as to max approval of party members, thus granting max "plot bonus" rewards for stats. For example, Morrigan gains small bonuses to Magic, Lelianna gains on Cunning, etc. Max the plot bonuses in order to max the potential of your party.



9) Top of Tactics list, place a check for "Self: Health < 25%" and take a "least powerful" health poultice if true. Also, do the same on next line for mana (with lyrium potion). Finally, be sure to set Options for Quick Heal to "least powerful" in order to avoid consuming powerful healing by accident.



10) Do Broken Circle first after Lothering. Be sure to gather all possible "Essence" boosts for attributes during the Fade section of the quest. In addition, this gains Wynne in your party ASAP. By the time she goes up a couple levels, you will not need to make many lesser healing poultices; the usage and rate of finding new ones plus her healing abilities (if set up properly) will keep you clear most of the time.



11) Dog will find a very nice "Piece of Wood" that serves as a powerful staff during your time in Lothering. Get it as your first primary weapon of choice because it's better than most anything else you can find (or buy, even if you had the gold, which you do not). You can replace it later with the staff from the Elder Oak in the forest, as well as Harrowmont's staff (if you side with him as Orzammar's new king).



Well, that's enough for now, I think.

[Steel Majere343]

well ya you dont need the classic party if you know how to get a lot of potions lol. you can get through anything with enough potions (unless you are grabbed or something)

[Lord Phoebus]

This is where I put my suggestions.

[AiTenshi1]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

well ya you dont need the classic party if you know how to get a lot of potions lol. you can get through anything with enough potions (unless you are grabbed or something)

Well, it's a matter of roleplaying rather than "gaming the game" so to speak. Taking a party that's dictated by stuff like having a tank et al prevents you from roleplaying unless you just happen to want to roleplay those specific characters and party makeup.

However, even with a tank, healer, ranged DPS, etc type party, you will still need to be focused on making a lot of potions and other helpers for your group. Unless you deliberately avoid doing so, I suppose, but the topic of this post was for tips about how to play the game effectively, not make it needlessly a chore to go through.

Still, having a lot of potions and other help won't allow you to simply get through the game unless you play the characters strategically according to their skills and how you develop them, at least not on Hard and Nightmare modes, especially the latter. The reason that a party such as mine (all female characters) requires a lot of potions, especially lyrium, is because of the specific classes that Bioware made the female characters. To wit, Leliana is an archer (by default, and I prefer her that way) while the other two females (Morrigan and Wynne) as well as my PC are magi. This means they will be needing a lot of lyrium potions because that is what they use most.

It's similar to how a party of all warriors will need a lot of armor and weapons compared to my party. The armor and weapons are mostly sell-off stuff for me because I don't need it or use it, but a party of all warriors would be keeping much of it in order to equip themselves properly.

As I said, tips and suggestions for strategy it really depends on your play style, including your specific party and development of party members. My suggestions would not work for a party of all melee fighters, for example. Such a preferred play style would require different tips and strategy suggestions.

[Ambaryerno]

Tenshi,



I think what people are complaining about being an exploit is when you have ten Darkspawn all massed around a camp fire, plunk one of them with an arrow, and only one comes charging out. Even though his nine buddies just saw him get an arrow in the butt. That's poor AI and I can completely understand why someone would call that exploting or gaming the game.



Roleplaying your character has NOTHING to do with it. If anything, it's a LACK of roleplaying by the AI, because chances are in real life if you just watched your buddy get whacked you'd be charging out there with him, too.



Unless it's meant to be the AI roleplaying that the other nine darkspawn are sitting around laughing hysterically as their companion goes charging off with an arrow sticking out of his ass.

[bas273]

Advice for Mages? Here you go:

Must-have spells:
- Heal, simple but effective. Teach this spell to every Mage in your party.
- Force Field and Crushing Prison. Use Force Field on your main tank to make him unkillable for a short duration which is very useful, some even consider it an exploit. Use Crushing Prison on tougher enemies (bosses).
- Cone of Cold, I find this spell even more useful than Blizzard. It allows you to freeze multiple enemies for a short duration and it does some cold damage. Good for crowd control (read: your mage is attacked by multiple enemies).
- Mind Blast, use this when your mage is surrounded by multiple enemies.
- Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion. Paralyze multiple enemies at once. Very useful spell.

Got to go might post some more tips later 

Modifié par bas273, 23 décembre 2009 - 08:11 .

[khevan]

Shavon wrote...

I'd like to start over, and rebuild my character so that she can focus on duelist/assassin and experiment more with poison making, and NOT make the mistake of putting points in magic (idky). Apparently its better to put everything in cunning and dexterity.
Question, would it be beneficial to put some points in strength and constitution occasionally, or should I put points exclusively in dexterity/cunning?

Any other advice for newb rogues? Oh, any advice on mages, too (my sister plays the mage)

There are two majorly accepted rogue builds on these forums, one max cunning with just enough dex to get the DW skills, or roughly 30-40 cunning (for lockpicking, traps and such) and max Dex.

Personally, I prefer to go the Dex route.  You'll technically do slightly less DPS, since CUN also improves armor penetration (1 point of AP for 7 points in CUN, IIRC), but you'll gain the added advantage of a MUCH higher defense.   You'll also have a much higher attack rating, since CUN (with Lethality) adds damage, but nothing to attack, and DEX adds both damage and attack.

Overall, the Cunning build does more pure damage, but the Dex build, in my opinion is the better build.  It has a higher defense, higher attack, and relies less on the party for buffs.  Just my $0.02.  Take it for what it's worth.

Oh, and you'll eventually need 20 points in STR to wear the T7  light armors.  You'll get like 3 or 4 free points in the Fade (During the Broken Circle quest), and you can easily find +STR gear (Key to the City, etc) to get the other points, but if you want to add a couple of points into STR early, it won't hurt your final build by enough to really notice.

[strundler]

You really don't need a 'balanced' party, regardless of the difficulty level. I just finished a nightmare run with 3 mages + rogue and didn't really have any major problems (to be fair, Flemeth and the High Dragon were both impossible until I got shimmering shield). I've done other runs with 3 warriors and I think my next one will be 3 rogues + wynne (or 3 rogues + alistair, but that's going to be a lot of potion chugging).



In the spirit of being constructive, though, here are some tips:

1) Crowd Control is your friend. While every class has some cc, mages really excel at it and have a wide variety of options. Groups (sleep, mass paralyze), individuals (force field, horror, paralyze, crushing prison), or short-term + damage (cone of cold, fireball). With one mage built for cc'ing, you can usually keep everything but a single target cc'ed at a time, except in some very large fights towards the end. With two mages, you can lock down even those large fights.

2) Squishies can take very little punishment, particularly at the beginning and end of the game. In the mid-game, you probably won't care if your mage or rogue takes a few hits from a white mob, but its a bad habit to get into. You can avoid damage with a) proper CC (see item 1), special abilities like stealth/force field that remove the squishy from the equation, or c) proper tanking (see item 3).

3) If you're using a classic 'tank,' WoW-style, set him/her up with support tactics. Use aggro-generating abilities and/or knockdown techniques when your mages/rogues are getting hit by melee. Which leads us to...

4) Work as a team (unless you're doing a solo run, obv). The game's default tactics are built around each person fending for themselves (e.g. Self - Attacked by Melee > Activate Rock Armor). Instead, set people up to cover each other and respond appropriately. Ally getting attacked by a boss? Heroic Defense might be nice. Ally immobilized? Maybe your rogue should stun that mabari that's got him pinned down.

5) Find a way to deal with enemy mages. Some of the spells that are a little overpowered in the hands of PCs (e.g. Crushing Prison) are absolutely overpowered in enemy hands. There are plenty of solutions to this, from the very simple Mana Clash to a quick rogue stunlock/takedown. But identify them and neutralize them, or you'll regret it.

6) In the same vein, recognize that different enemies require different approaches. A group of assassins/shrieks that destealth right on top of you is a really different fight than that well-armored revenant that you spawn at your leisure. Someone above mentioned using Crushing Prison on bosses -- in my experience, this is one of the worst uses of CP. It doesn't lock most bosses down and the damage it does really isn't worth the mana. Now using CP on a boss's white adds, on the other hand, can work wonders.

7) Specialize, specialize, specialize. In almost every case, teching straight to a tier 4 talent is better than picking up two tier 2 talents. Rogues have some exceptions in this area, and of course the stat restrictions may impose some delays.

[ijmorris]

I find that keeping your party just around a corner from the enemies is the best fighting tactic...Some might call this kiting or what have you, but anytime I can shield my party from archers I consider that a smart tactic, not an exploit. I will run a long way to make that happen.

[Steel Majere343]

wow this topic really took off since i checked on it last. im glad to see so many great tips about.

in regards to my earlier potion comment to AiTenshi1 i ment no disrespect by saying that if you have potions you can get through anything. i was just justifying myself that thats why i was recomending a party built as such.



one thing i noticed recently is just how much emphasis is put on tanking with a sword and board style. so im inclined to make that a tip as well.

as much as i hate being forced to use a certain role every game, it seems that there are some integral things that the game seems to have been focused around.



one being that the main tank has a shield. You always have at least one character who has shield training due to alistair, and if he leaves, logain takes his place with the same (if not better depending on your skill as a character developer) skills. This can also be seen if you look at the shield line abilities. It is almost spitting on the weapon and shield character if you DONT use him as the main tank (assuming you only have one in the party). Most of the shield lines abilities are all defensive and beef him up for the onslaught.



This is the same reason two handed warriors dont make good tanks. They can be OK but their role is way better suited as damager then damage taker. You could make a good one if you pump him up with dextarity and im sure he'd do fine, but its clear the role that was intended for a two handed warrior. Which is to play backup, only using his threaten talents etc if the main tank falls in battle.



it also seems that duel weapons and archery were meant to be left to the rogues. this is probly because neither have any defensive abilities AT ALL. all attacks for both weapon lines are damage oriented. not to mention having a sturdy warrior stand in the backround with a bow when you could have a rogue do it seems a bit off. So does having the warrior duel wield when, if you want him to be a damager, he could just go with a two handed weapon, saving him from wasting points in dextarity when, as a damager, points would be better spent on willpower to keep bringing the pain.



though again, these options are all possible, im just stating the most logical choices.



so pretty much a classic party SHOULD look something like:



a sword and shield warrior

a mage

a rogue

your choice.

[AiTenshi1]

Ambaryerno wrote...

Tenshi,

I think what people are complaining about being an exploit is when you have ten Darkspawn all massed around a camp fire, plunk one of them with an arrow, and only one comes charging out. Even though his nine buddies just saw him get an arrow in the butt. That's poor AI and I can completely understand why someone would call that exploting or gaming the game.

Roleplaying your character has NOTHING to do with it. If anything, it's a LACK of roleplaying by the AI, because chances are in real life if you just watched your buddy get whacked you'd be charging out there with him, too.

Unless it's meant to be the AI roleplaying that the other nine darkspawn are sitting around laughing hysterically as their companion goes charging off with an arrow sticking out of his ass.

Well, as I pointed out, it's a matter of roleplaying specific character classes and builds, not poor AI (although as I also said, this game has extremely poor AI in general, including your so-called allies). Melee-type strategists may not understand this point, but it's true for anyone who applies ranged strategy, even in real life situations. With respect to the latter issue of poor AI, the enemies do exactly the same behavior as your allies, so it is consistent and you must roleplay accordingly. Specifically, your allies will behave exactly the same way when enemy archers and spellcasters approach just within their range and begin plunking away at your allies; they will sit there dying and not defend themselves at all rather than having any sort of self-preservation or common sense reaction.

In any event, using strategy isn't an exploit. Using a character's abilities is not an exploit. Not unless warriors are supposed to avoid using heavy armor and magic protections, and rogues are supposed to avoid using stealth and other skillls or strategies such as flanking and stealing. Having a mage or archer who is specialized in ranged combat move into melee battle or aggro groups simply because you think doing otherwise is "exploiting bad AI" is not very smart and certainly not roleplaying such a character realistically. In real life, ranged comat specialists pick off enemies by sniping them and staying as far away from detection as possible. Doing otherwise usually results in the injury or death of the ranged combat specialist, and rightly so.