18 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkchaos]

I've been trying to decide on a which weapon talents to give my warrior PC, but can't make up my mind between going sword/shield or dual-wielding.  I plan to have my PC as the main tank character (don't feel like keeping Alistair in the party all the time) and I've read around that DW warriors can still do that just about as good as sword/shield can.  What do you all think?  What would be the differences between the two?  How would you recommend allocating the stats?

[Funker Shepard]

Looking at the sustained abilities, I'd say the best tanks are sword and shield > 2-handed (due to indomitable etc.) > dual wield.



In fact, the trees pretty much correspond to 'tank', 'off-tank' and 'dps'. OTOH, at least on normal, you'll probably get by with basically any warrior-type with high armor (for the increased threat) to draw fire from your squishier targets.

[BanditGR]

Dual Wielding :

Pro : Amazing damage capability, amazing threat generation (important), excellent avoidance due to high dexterity, excellent and relatively fast scaling, level-wise.

Con : Lack of knockdown immunity, limited interrupts.

Main stats to focus : Str and Dex. At least enough dex to get all DW talents (except maybe the final DW talent, since 2x full weapons will hinder your attack speed if not using dual daggers). At least 31 Str. Willpower is not really needed if you intend to abuse DLC items with +stamina.

Sword/Shield :

Pro : Knockdown immunity with shield wall + expertise, decent interrupts, very good mitigation and avoidance in endgame.

Con : Worst damage capacity from all the warrior specs (from a min/max PoV), abysmal threat due to low damage, especially early on, need to potentially focus on more stats early on.

Main stats to focus : Dex, Str and later on perhaps some Willpower and Con if absolutely necessary. Get the stats for all the defensive talents first (plus threaten and taunt from the warrior tree), ignore the offensive talents until that point (since the character will be a tank).

I think the differences are fairly obvious from the above descriptions. DW is a monster in terms of DPS but it simply doesn't work that well against opponents that primarily use knockback/knockdown attacks (when you spend most of the time facing the floor, you can't do damage, so your threat is low). High physical resistance can compensate for this to some degree but there are simply attacks that will knock you down without immunity. Sword and shield is very decent as you progress through the game but probably has the slowest character development due to the necessity of shield wall and expertise. Early on, it is problematic in many ways when compared to DW and even 2H. Speaking of 2H, it is a very decent choice for tanking and people tend to overlook its utility due to the slow swing time and the relative inaccuracy attack wise, early on. Since I've tanked the game on Hard with a 2H warrior, I'm of the opinion that it handles better than sword and shield early on, IF you play it properly, meaning focus on micromanaging the swings, prioritize the sunder talents due to their double hit potential etc. The added pain for a 2H tank is the fact that you need to focus on dexterity as well (instead of just pumping Str to ridiculous amounts) and Champion is pretty much a no brainer (which is actually true for all the tank specs). The fact however that you can get Indomitable as early as level 2-3 and you can construct the 2H version of Starfang again relatively early, makes it very worthwhile.

Modifié par BanditGR, 22 décembre 2009 - 09:51 .

[termokanden]

Well I can tell you what I've learned from completing the game with a DW warrior.



Throughout 95% of the fights, I would end up tanking most of the room, with Alistair tanking more or less nothing. I simply did so much damage that Alistair couldn't really tank anything for me unless I was holding back. No point wasting time on it then.



The thing is, a DW warrior can wear the heaviest armor and has quite good dex as well. On normal difficulty (haven't tried anything else), I can promise you that a correctly built DW warrior can tank, and tank well. They also do a lot more damage than you ever would with sword and board. You WILL take a lot of damage, but it's healable, particularly if you use all your tools. Lifeward and Regeneration as well, not just Heal and Group Heal.



Now there is one big weakness with DW warriors though: knockdowns. These are not a problem for sword and board warriors.



I would build a DW warrior like this:



BEFORE Fade bonuses you should make sure you have 32 dexterity and 11 cunning. The Fade bonuses will bring you to the needed 36 dexterity and 16 cunning so you can have all skills and so you can get all DW talents.



Everything else into strength.



As for talents:



- The first 3 from Berserker (the fourth one is extremely bad and should really never be used).

- The whole line from your second specialization, Templar or Champion.

- Every single DW talent.

- All warrior talents. Not all are good, but you have enough points if you buy all tomes.

[Dragon Age1103]

termokanden wrote...

Well I can tell you what I've learned from completing the game with a DW warrior.

Throughout 95% of the fights, I would end up tanking most of the room, with Alistair tanking more or less nothing. I simply did so much damage that Alistair couldn't really tank anything for me unless I was holding back. No point wasting time on it then.

The thing is, a DW warrior can wear the heaviest armor and has quite good dex as well. On normal difficulty (haven't tried anything else), I can promise you that a correctly built DW warrior can tank, and tank well. They also do a lot more damage than you ever would with sword and board. You WILL take a lot of damage, but it's healable, particularly if you use all your tools. Lifeward and Regeneration as well, not just Heal and Group Heal.

Now there is one big weakness with DW warriors though: knockdowns. These are not a problem for sword and board warriors.

I would build a DW warrior like this:

BEFORE Fade bonuses you should make sure you have 32 dexterity and 11 cunning. The Fade bonuses will bring you to the needed 36 dexterity and 16 cunning so you can have all skills and so you can get all DW talents.

Everything else into strength.

As for talents:

- The first 3 from Berserker (the fourth one is extremely bad and should really never be used).
- The whole line from your second specialization, Templar or Champion.
- Every single DW talent.
- All warrior talents. Not all are good, but you have enough points if you buy all tomes.

 I couldn't agree more the first time I solo'd a Revenant on nightmare was with a dual wileding warrior. Once your dex is high enough you evade most attacks while dealing massive DPS & ridiculous crits.

[borelocin]

I would go Sword and Board with Guardian and Reaver as my specs.

Between Taunt, War Cry and the Warden's Keep AOE (if you have that DLC) you have 3 nice attention grabbers. Two of them are PBAOEs that also incapacitate several mobs for several seconds while also putting you higher up the hate list.

Aura of Pain does sweet bugger all damage but it draws aggro like crazy. An AOE DoT with a fast tick lets you run around the room gathering everyone in a tight little bundle. Wear Wade's Dragonbone and let your party fireball you - it tickles.

Against easy enemies engage the reaver dps toggle mode and the warden's keep dps toggle mode ( again if you have it ). Against hard enemies concentrate on durability.

Modifié par borelocin, 22 décembre 2009 - 11:13 .

[DragoonKain3]

Yeah, knockdowns are a problem, as you can't quaff potions while you're knockdowned. Particularly Ogres using their battering ram (whatever its called) attack over and over again, since it has a ridiculously low cooldown (if at all in nightmare) that they can use it repeteadly to perma-down your DW tank.

That said, DW does offer significantly higher DPS while they almost tank as well as shield users against most mobs. All of this is of course assuming that DW tank is going 100% DEX (you don't need armor if you can't get hit, while enemy mages can be taken out by your mages so no need for Spell resist gear either), but I think you already knew that.

Specs btw should be Champion, since you desperately need Rally for more sources of DEF. Second spec should either be Berserker or Reaver; I tend towards the latter since the health drain is usually not a problem due to your ridiculously high DEF, while Berserk gives you more mana drain on top of momentum which means less taunts.

Modifié par DragoonKain3, 22 décembre 2009 - 02:13 .

[menasure]

well shields are the only pieces of material which can prevent damage, armor just lowers the damage you get and this makes shield wielders the best tanks when it purely comes to taking damage and in that sence they are the only real tanks but eventually the gear and the healing matters more.

then again as long as you can keep the opponents under control and kill them fast enough you do not need any tank ... just going dps will complicate matters against though bosses though.

[Grommash94]

Dual wielders can tank. But sword and boarders can do it better.

[beancounter501]

For tanking it is hard to beat S&B. Shield defense and a good shield can add 20 to 30 points to your defense. Plus the shield line gives protection against flanking attacks which is really nice.



Offensively, the S&B is not that bad. Shield pummel will give two shield bashes followed up with a regular attack. Assault is very nice too.



Threaten is so so, but taunt is massive. Critters will focus on you after a taunt.

[DeathTyrant]

I used a re-spec mod to change Alistair to DW, and he works pretty well as a DPS Tank, if you can call him such a thing.

[Jman5]

Go triple 2h! Sten, Oghren, and myself all run around with 2-handers and we lay waste to everything without getting too hurt. Revanents are a breeze, and the threat is spread out pretty nicely.

One fun thing about it, is the fact that all the melee will crowd into one small space because your DPS/Tanks are melee. You then can hit 2 handed sweep three times for some good damage and major crowd control. Your healer is left alone until everyone is dead or a stray AOE spell hits her.

Edit: This was my inspiration to go the 2 hander route

Modifié par Jman5, 22 décembre 2009 - 05:04 .

[congokurtz]

I imagine S/B are better tanks, but I don't think the game is difficult enough to need a low dps dedicated tank. I prefer a DW warrior, and once you do a whirlwind into DW sweep and annihilate 8 deepstalkers/undead/wolves you will too. 2H warriors are not too bad if played correctly and can be fun too.

[lv12medic]

Weapon and shield is nice for tanking (for me anyways) because of Shield Wall + Shield Expertise (knockdown immunity) and Shield Tactics. I love negating the ability of the enemy to flank/backstab. Keeping the threat on you can be a challenge in drawn out battles though.

[borelocin]

The argument about "pure" tanks and "I hold aggro through DPS" tanks has been raging in MMOs since ... forever !



S+B can avoid and mitigate damage better.



DW would generate more hate and have stickier aggro but be easier to incapacitate and take more damage from many attacks.

[Khumak]

Which is better really depends on your play style. If you like high DPS parties and don't want your mages to get squished, you might be better off with a DW tank because they are aggro machines. If you've got a melee heavy party and either just a weak healer or no healer at all then you might want S&B to minimize the damage you take.

I noticed when I used Allistair as tank, my mages tend to wind up kiting bosses because he can't hold aggro.  With a DW tank, they stay put and a DW warrior can chew through a boss fairly quickly.

The knockdown immunity you can get with either S&B or 2H is more of a situational thing. If you don't have it, some fights become annoying. By the same token certain bosses are a lot easier with the extra DPS you get from a DW warrior.

S&B also tends to give you more reaction time if you don't like to micro manage fights. They're just harder to kill than a DW tank. Personally, I prefer DW Tanks.

Modifié par Khumak, 23 décembre 2009 - 10:53 .

[Time4Tiddy]

DeathTyrant wrote...

I used a re-spec mod to change Alistair to DW, and he works pretty well as a DPS Tank, if you can call him such a thing.

Considering you get Alistair at level 5 with 17 dex and only 3 talents in S/S, it's pretty easy to switch him to DW even without a re-spec mod.  Just saying for those that might not want to mod their game. 

[Time4Tiddy]

The biggest challenge with a standard tank build is that your dps have to give the tank time to get aggro. Sending Morrigan in with Blood Wound, WVB and Storm of the Century assures that she'll get ALL the aggro from whoever is left standing. A higher DPS tank will pick up the aggro faster, especially since you will still have Threaten.

[Tetonica]

I'm playing a dual wield warrior right now and he's absolutely amazing. Most fun class I've played so far. Nice amount of AoE, great dps with momentum and dual striking turned on with two longswords, and very survivable with his high-ish dex(50) and champion talents.