189 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

well in response to ppl that **** about ppl ****ing, ironic kinda

forums, they were made for qq

[jla0644]

Joccaren wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

Lots of people who haven't played ME1 recently, and don't remember that all of that dialogue you got to choose was basically like listening to codex entries. Liara telling you about the asari, Tali telling you about the quarians, Wrex telling you about the krogan and the genophage, Kaiden telling you about human biotics, and Ashley talking about human/alien relations.

There were very few really interesting conversations to have, I don't care how many options you got to choose from.

Stop idealizing ME1, understand that it was great, but flawed, and your life will be much better.

ME1 is the most recent ME game I have actually played, as it was the most entertaining IMO.

The dialogue was a lot of background information, yes, but that's what some people want and it fits with ME1. That also says nothing about dialogue vs autodialogue, merely the content of the conversations.

ME3 could have had more relevent content in its dialogue than who the Quarian's are and still had fully choice driven dialogue. It didn't. It just went for the "Player interactivness is too videogamey' sort of path.

And yeah, the options in ME1 lead to the same end most of the time. We were fine with that. It allowed us to roleplay though. It allowed us to define our Shepard through how they acted, rather than watching them like a movie character. Even when the lines were the exact same, the subconcious perception we had of our Shepard's meaning behind the words still carried through. Autodialogue lacks this feature, and is highly disappointing IMO.

LOL, listening to Liara explain asari reproduction helps you roleplay? Whatever you say. It's info about the universe your character is in, but it has zero to do with your character.

Again, I've already said it works fine for ME1. They had to introduce the game universe to us somehow. But imagine that same kind of dialogue in ME3. Earth is burning, the Reapers are ravaging the galaxy, and your Shep is listening to Tali drone on about the quarian conclave. Exhilirating.

The dialogue in all 3 games was hit and miss at times. There were points where my Shep couldn't say what I wanted him/her to, times where the selection was nothing like what I thought it would be, and times when the dialogue was disjointed and awkward. This is no more true in ME3 than in the first two games.

And before someone else feels the need to dismiss my post by insinuating I should be playing CoD (as if that is supposed to be an insult) I can't remember the last time I played a FPS, and I have never played a single Halo or GoW title.

Modifié par jla0644, 16 août 2012 - 12:53 .

[SpamBot2000]

What's with all the comments about Liara explaining Asari reproduction? Don't see what's so bad about that.

[Joccaren]

jla0644 wrote...

LOL, listening to Liara explain asari reproduction helps you roleplay? Whatever you say. It's info about the universe your character is in, but it has zero to do with your character.

1. Asking Liara about her people allows my Shepard to gain in game knowledge about the Asari, as well as showing an interest in Liara and her people.
2. I was largely, with that point, refering to the people saying that all options lead to the same outcome anyway, and thus choice wasn't really important.

Again, I've already said it works fine for ME1. They had to introduce the game universe to us somehow. But imagine that same kind of dialogue in ME3. Earth is burning, the Reapers are ravaging the galaxy, and your Shep is listening to Tali drone on about the quarian conclave. Exhilirating.

Pretty sure I addressed this, but just in case: No, they did not need excess exposition. Some exposition is of course necessary at times. However, less exposition does not mean less choice dialogue, which is a large portion of what many people found wrong with ME3's dialogue. You couldn't pick what to say, and that screwed up a number of Shepards for a number of people.

The dialogue in all 3 games was hit and miss at times. There were points where my Shep couldn't say what I wanted him/her to, times where the selection was nothing like what I thought it would be, and times when the dialogue was disjointed and awkward. This is no more true in ME3 than in the first two games.

That really depends on your Shepard. For my Shepards it was far more hit and miss, as it no longer reflected who I'd made their characters to be, and they said pretty much the exact opposite of what they'd said in previous games at times. It all depends on the Shepard though.

I can't remember the last time I played a FPS, and I have never played a single Halo or GoW title.

You've played ME3 haven't you? [/obligatory poke fun at ME3 comment]

Modifié par Joccaren, 16 août 2012 - 08:50 .

[o Ventus]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

What's with all the comments about Liara explaining Asari reproduction? Don't see what's so bad about that.

Because it's tied to a comment that makes Shepard out to be a mouth-breathing idiot who presumably thinks that some people don't or cannot mate with others of their own species.

[KiwiQuiche]

o Ventus wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

What's with all the comments about Liara explaining Asari reproduction? Don't see what's so bad about that.

Because it's tied to a comment that makes Shepard out to be a mouth-breathing idiot who presumably thinks that some people don't or cannot mate with others of their own species.

At least Shepard's bouts of retard are few in ME1 and 2; in ME3 she's in fullretard mode nearly every dialogue.

[o Ventus]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

What's with all the comments about Liara explaining Asari reproduction? Don't see what's so bad about that.

Because it's tied to a comment that makes Shepard out to be a mouth-breathing idiot who presumably thinks that some people don't or cannot mate with others of their own species.

At least Shepard's bouts of retard are few in ME1 and 2; in ME3 she's in fullretard mode nearly every dialogue.

And for ME1+2 you had to deliberately choose the dialogue to make Shepard into an idiot. Here in ME3 you can't avoid because it's 99% automated.

[SpamBot2000]

o Ventus wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

What's with all the comments about Liara explaining Asari reproduction? Don't see what's so bad about that.

Because it's tied to a comment that makes Shepard out to be a mouth-breathing idiot who presumably thinks that some people don't or cannot mate with others of their own species.

Hmmm... Can't remember ever being struck by that myself. Of course, there's always the possibility that I am a bit dim myself. But really, the Asari not mating with other Asari at this point of their evolution would make about as much sense as them mating with other species. Which they do. So I guess people are a little hard on Shep in this regard. Mostly, it seems, people who argue that Shep acting like an idiot in ME3 is ok because he acted like an idiot before. 

[xsdob]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

What's with all the comments about Liara explaining Asari reproduction? Don't see what's so bad about that.

Because it's tied to a comment that makes Shepard out to be a mouth-breathing idiot who presumably thinks that some people don't or cannot mate with others of their own species.

Hmmm... Can't remember ever being struck by that myself. Of course, there's always the possibility that I am a bit dim myself. But really, the Asari not mating with other Asari at this point of their evolution would make about as much sense as them mating with other species. Which they do. So I guess people are a little hard on Shep in this regard. Mostly, it seems, people who argue that Shep acting like an idiot in ME3 is ok because he acted like an idiot before. 

The line is "I thought asari needed an outside partner to reproduce" or something like that, implying that the asari have never needed to mate with eachother at all.

Another line that's bad, the wrex conversation where you are not allowed to simply have sympathy for the krogan, you are forced to say a very incinsitive line, "We humans are getting a more spread out population, what's the difference?" in response to wrex talking about the genophage. That's like talking to a world war 2 holohcaust survivor and saying "One time I went two days without eating, I don't see what makes you so special."

Also, the fake dialouge choice is a real pain in the ass, like when I'm forced to tell the council "You've made your decision, I won't waste my breath." no matter which option I pick, and I always say it in a whiny tone even if it was supposed to be paragon or renegade, it's irratating, more so than the auto-dialouge to me.

ME2 did it the best.

[SpamBot2000]

xsdob wrote...

The line is "I thought asari needed an outside partner to reproduce" or something like that, implying that the asari have never needed to mate with eachother at all.

Another line that's bad, the wrex conversation where you are not allowed to simply have sympathy for the krogan, you are forced to say a very incinsitive line, "We humans are getting a more spread out population, what's the difference?" in response to wrex talking about the genophage. That's like talking to a world war 2 holohcaust survivor and saying "One time I went two days without eating, I don't see what makes you so special."

I don't think the Asari line implies anything beyond their current reproductive system. But I totally agree about the genophage dialogue, I do recall being quite aghast at Shepard's belittling attitude about that atrocity.

[Neizd]

Very true OP. the autodialoque did kill the ME as RPG. Also I don't know about others but when I buy RPG game I want to play it and not watch the game play by itself...

[Helios969]

Didn't have a problem with autodialogue as it saved me from all those dead end conversations I experienced in ME2. I do see why others do not like it. I would have liked more "real" conversations though. Ashley was kinda just there on the ship taking up space. She was about as much of a companion as Allers was...

[Astralify]

Neizd wrote...

Very true OP. the autodialoque did kill the ME as RPG. Also I don't know about others but when I buy RPG game I want to play it and not watch the game play by itself...

Amen, brother!

[Conniving_Eagle]

Dialogue is one of Mass Effect's selling points. It's one of the things that make Mass Effect such a unique game. Why tone that down? It would be like Epic toning down the blood, gore and violence in GoW.

[AxStapleton]

Rule of thumb. Any thread which starts with "To those who say" tend to more volatile.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
Ah yes the "I bought an RPG but don't want to play through an RPG" arguments...

Well honestly calling ME3 an RPG is a bit much.
It does come with an "Action Mode", a "Story-lite Mode", and a "RPG-lite Mode".

Sad part is that even "Story-lite Mode" has the dumbed down dialogue system. I had to double check which game setting I was playing on when I saw ME3's butchered dialogue.

[SpamBot2000]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Sad part is that even "Story-lite Mode" has the dumbed down dialogue system. I had to double check which game setting I was playing on when I saw ME3's butchered dialogue.

Is there a single player that didn't at some point check if they were accidentally in "Action" mode? I'm actually curious.

[Baronesa]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Sad part is that even "Story-lite Mode" has the dumbed down dialogue system. I had to double check which game setting I was playing on when I saw ME3's butchered dialogue.

Is there a single player that didn't at some point check if they were accidentally in "Action" mode? I'm actually curious.

I checked several times...

auto dialogue did not amused me -.-

[Dr.Freeman]

Yes, I did that too.
I hated the auto dialogue. After playing ME3 for no more than about 5 hours, I wondered where my Shepard had gone. This wasn't my Shepard...
For example, my Shepard (Me !!!) hated Ashley and wanted to punch her in the face, but instead of beeing rude or just emotionless, the Shepard I had to play was all concerned about Ashley. Most of the time I felt like I was completely locked out from the game and had no control over my character.
So... as I played through the game I realised, that every single completely different character I created through ME1 and 2 would basically play out the same. Meh.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I really dislike the first part of the game. As soon as you are on the ship you will be kicked to another location. It takes forever. Pushing me is something I do not like in RPGs. If I want to play a game on rails, I'll play a shooter.

[Xandurpein]

I can really see why auto-dialogue is so tempting to the writers. The less player input they get, the more freedom the writer has to complete the whole scene the way they see fit. What it comes down to is that a good RPG is never complete without the part that only happens inside the head of the player, but that part can probably be difficult to gauge for a writer, so it's easy to neglect.

It's just like with the way they tried to make us feel how tired and sad Shepard was. They didn't make us feel like that, instead they just told us "now Shepard is tired and sad", which just made me think wtf? The main characters emotions should be determined by the player, not the game, but that requries a writer that isn't just a good writer, but also has an intuitive feel for how things will play out in the head of the gamer.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 16 août 2012 - 02:54 .

[The Elite Elite]

xsdob wrote...
The line is "I thought asari needed an outside partner to reproduce" or something like that, implying that the asari have never needed to mate with eachother at all.

Another line that's bad, the wrex conversation where you are not allowed to simply have sympathy for the krogan, you are forced to say a very incinsitive line, "We humans are getting a more spread out population, what's the difference?" in response to wrex talking about the genophage. That's like talking to a world war 2 holohcaust survivor and saying "One time I went two days without eating, I don't see what makes you so special."

Also, the fake dialouge choice is a real pain in the ass, like when I'm forced to tell the council "You've made your decision, I won't waste my breath." no matter which option I pick, and I always say it in a whiny tone even if it was supposed to be paragon or renegade, it's irratating, more so than the auto-dialouge to me.

ME2 did it the best.

I agree with this. As annoying as all the auto-dialogue in ME3 is, ME1 really wasn't much better. Too many times you had three "options" on the dialogue wheel, and they all go to the same exact line. They only difference is ME3 takes away the illusion of choice. ME2 certainly did do it the best of the trilogy. (I also agree with the person earlier who said that Dragon Age 2's dialogue system was very well done. It really was. If you pick the sarcastic options a lot of the time, that would change future dialouge, even when you pick options that aren't labeled as sarcastic. If only ME3 had done the dialogue like that.)

[WindfishDude]

Auto-dialoue is FINE for Story mode or Action mode. I think it's a great idea, to let those who don't want to make constant choices be able to enjoy the game as well.

But why should the die-hard RPG fans have to suffer? That's my problem with the whole thing.

[sharkboy421]

halbert986 wrote...

This is actually something I can safely blame EA for. I feel they've gotten much of the blame for bioware's shortcomings. But the transition from RPG-action game, to shooter with some choices to make bothered me right off the bat and I'm 97% sure it was a push made by EA to appeal to the masses.

God bless em the gameplay in ME3 is awesome. They really nailed it, it's seamless and quick and the controls work beautifully. But the RPG side is tedious and boring because I run around and press A. I don't have conversations, I watch people have conversations.

I apologize for jumping in late here but I really liked your comment.  One of the reason I love ME2 so much is its combination of gameplay and story telling.  I really, really like shooter game play.  GoW and Battlefield are a lot of fun to play but they are lacking in the story department.  GoW is better than most but even then its hard to really get into the story and care about the characters.  But ME had it all.  The gameplay was the style I liked and steadily improved over the series and it was sitting right alongside an entire universe I could lose myself in.  I was in heaven.  ME3's abundance of auto-dialogue really did hurt the experience for me.  That was one of my favorite parts of the game and to see it so limited, that really sucked.

Also while I agree the basics of shooting, taking cover and moving are as good as any game out there, I was very dissappointed that they removed the damage multipliers against different kinds of protection.  Also the number of unshielded enemies was very sad as well.  The change in combat lost some of its ME feeling.

[Conniving_Eagle]

WindfishDude wrote...

Auto-dialoue is FINE for Story mode or Action mode. I think it's a great idea, to let those who don't want to make constant choices be able to enjoy the game as well.

But why should the die-hard RPG fans have to suffer? That's my problem with the whole thing.