I've been trying my hand at porting DA2 body models into DAO. I imported the DA2 mesh, applied a material, imported a similar DAO mesh, mashed up them all up, copied the skin and normal modifiers to the DA2 model from the DAO model, moved some weird-looking vertices around, and exported it once it looked good enough to test. (Some of the bones seem too long and out-of-place, but I assumed I could adjust that later.) The model looks fine in 3ds max, in gmax, even in DATool, but I cannot figure out why it won't show up correctly in the toolset. I extended APR_base and even tried extending clothing_variation. If I write in a different model variation into either GDA, the model will show up. I checked all the references in the mmh, msh, phy, and mao. What am I doing wrong? I'm guessing it has something to do with the UVW map and the related modifiers, but I have no idea how to fix it beyond what I've already tried.
Model not showing in toolset
Débuté par
Karma
, août 15 2012 05:21
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#2
Posté 15 août 2012 - 06:00
DarthParametric
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You won't be able to directly copy a skin modifier from a completely different mesh and have it work in-game, but I doubt that is your issue here, unless the mesh has been wildly distorted to the extent of being off-screen.
I'm assuming you have tried it both as a creature body and as an item if you have extended both APR_base and the clothing variation GDAs. For items it's easy enough to overlook the sex/race appearance drop down at the bottom of the item tab. If your model is not the default male human then it won't show up unless you pick the correct sex/race you have a model for. As for the creature, you might want to post the line you added to APR_base.
I'm assuming you have tried it both as a creature body and as an item if you have extended both APR_base and the clothing variation GDAs. For items it's easy enough to overlook the sex/race appearance drop down at the bottom of the item tab. If your model is not the default male human then it won't show up unless you pick the correct sex/race you have a model for. As for the creature, you might want to post the line you added to APR_base.
#3
Posté 15 août 2012 - 06:03
Karma
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I'm sure it's neither the APR_base nor the creature file. When I change the various UVW map modifiers, I can get the body to show up in the toolset without changing either APR_base or the creature properties, but the texture looks wonky.
If I remove the "Unwrap UVW" modifier (and just go with Skin, Edit Normal, and Editable Mesh), the body shows up in the toolset, but the texture is really messed up. The colors are mostly in the right places, but it looks like he's wearing pinstriped skin. If I add in the "Unwrap UVW" modifier and/or add in the "UVW Map" modifier, the body disappears from the toolset. (When I have both modifiers, the UVW map doesn't look flattened out anymore; it looks like I'm looking down on the model from above.)
If it helps to see what I've done, I've been using this tutorial:
http://forums.nexusm...ns/page__st__10
I stopped at step #14 to test my progress. The remainder of the steps shows how to re-weight the bones, but that doesn't seem necessary to test the exporting process. Or is it?
The script I've been using to import the DA2 mesh only imports the mesh. No skeleton, collision, etc. But if I use Eshme's tool, I can import the collision and skeleton of the DA2 model if I uncheck the import mesh option. Obviously the weights are all messed up or missing, but if I can reweight the DA2 bones to the DA2 model, will it still work in DAO? Is there a way to get the proper bone weights of the DA2 model in text format (like getting them from an XML file or using a Gff Editor), or do I have to edit the envelopes one at a time visually?
If I remove the "Unwrap UVW" modifier (and just go with Skin, Edit Normal, and Editable Mesh), the body shows up in the toolset, but the texture is really messed up. The colors are mostly in the right places, but it looks like he's wearing pinstriped skin. If I add in the "Unwrap UVW" modifier and/or add in the "UVW Map" modifier, the body disappears from the toolset. (When I have both modifiers, the UVW map doesn't look flattened out anymore; it looks like I'm looking down on the model from above.)
If it helps to see what I've done, I've been using this tutorial:
http://forums.nexusm...ns/page__st__10
I stopped at step #14 to test my progress. The remainder of the steps shows how to re-weight the bones, but that doesn't seem necessary to test the exporting process. Or is it?
The script I've been using to import the DA2 mesh only imports the mesh. No skeleton, collision, etc. But if I use Eshme's tool, I can import the collision and skeleton of the DA2 model if I uncheck the import mesh option. Obviously the weights are all messed up or missing, but if I can reweight the DA2 bones to the DA2 model, will it still work in DAO? Is there a way to get the proper bone weights of the DA2 model in text format (like getting them from an XML file or using a Gff Editor), or do I have to edit the envelopes one at a time visually?
Modifié par satans_karma, 15 août 2012 - 06:05 .
#4
Posté 15 août 2012 - 06:53
DarthParametric
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You can't use DA2 rigs in DA1 - they are different.
You really should properly weight the mesh, but if you want to "cheat" Max already has in-built tools to interpolate skin weighting between two meshes. I covered the process in this post. It's illustrated there using heads, but it's the same for any pair of meshes.
You shouldn't need to manually add a Edit Normals modifier by the way. Eshme's script will auto-generate it on export.
You should be using Unwrap UVW. I'm not sure if Eshme's script works with any other UV modifier. If you are getting texture issues then there are 2 possible causes. The first is that DA2 changed the texture format from DA1, most notably normal maps, so they must be converted to work properly in DA1. If they have been converted properly then chances are the UVs have been screwed up somehow, most likely in the extraction/import process. It should be easy enough to confirm that just by looking at the UVs - select the modifier in the stack and hit the Edit button to pop up the UV window. If you have a properly applied Edit UVW modifier, I'm not sure why that would cause the mesh to disappear. The only thing that comes to mind is some sort of screwiness from the import process that essentially "corrupts" the exported model.
You really should properly weight the mesh, but if you want to "cheat" Max already has in-built tools to interpolate skin weighting between two meshes. I covered the process in this post. It's illustrated there using heads, but it's the same for any pair of meshes.
You shouldn't need to manually add a Edit Normals modifier by the way. Eshme's script will auto-generate it on export.
You should be using Unwrap UVW. I'm not sure if Eshme's script works with any other UV modifier. If you are getting texture issues then there are 2 possible causes. The first is that DA2 changed the texture format from DA1, most notably normal maps, so they must be converted to work properly in DA1. If they have been converted properly then chances are the UVs have been screwed up somehow, most likely in the extraction/import process. It should be easy enough to confirm that just by looking at the UVs - select the modifier in the stack and hit the Edit button to pop up the UV window. If you have a properly applied Edit UVW modifier, I'm not sure why that would cause the mesh to disappear. The only thing that comes to mind is some sort of screwiness from the import process that essentially "corrupts" the exported model.
#5
Posté 15 août 2012 - 07:19
Karma
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When I have just the Unwrap UVW modifier, it looks fine both in the view port and on the edit UVW screen. It begins out of place in the editor, but I can easily put it back in place. It doesn't change the appearance of the texture in the viewport though because it was already correctly applied. (I thought that was weird, but maybe not?) When I turn on UVW Map, the texture goes crazy in the view port. If I then turn on Unwrap UVW, when I edit the map, it's messed up. It's no longer flattened.
I'll try converting the normal map and get back to you. And I'll try your tutorial if that doesn't work.
UPDATE: Converting the normal map did not fix the problem.
UPDATE #2: Since I couldn't delete the DAO mesh directly as suggested in your tutorial, I attached the DAO mesh to the DA2 mesh and proceeded to delete the DAO mesh as outlined in the tutorial I linked. The missing model in the toolset problem persists.
UPDATE #3: I have a GOD object and a GOB object. The mesh is connected to the GOB, and the skeleton connected to the GOD. Could this be the problem? Eshme's exporter exports the GOB not the GOD? If so, what should the hierarchy be?
I'll try converting the normal map and get back to you. And I'll try your tutorial if that doesn't work.
UPDATE: Converting the normal map did not fix the problem.
UPDATE #2: Since I couldn't delete the DAO mesh directly as suggested in your tutorial, I attached the DAO mesh to the DA2 mesh and proceeded to delete the DAO mesh as outlined in the tutorial I linked. The missing model in the toolset problem persists.
UPDATE #3: I have a GOD object and a GOB object. The mesh is connected to the GOB, and the skeleton connected to the GOD. Could this be the problem? Eshme's exporter exports the GOB not the GOD? If so, what should the hierarchy be?
Modifié par satans_karma, 16 août 2012 - 01:43 .
#6
Posté 16 août 2012 - 01:02
Karma
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Just for future reference, since the DAO skeleton doesn't exactly fit the DA2 mesh, should I attempt to fit the mesh to the skeleton or the skeleton to the mesh? Or neither?
#7
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:45
DarthParametric
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That hierarchy is fine. That's how it is meant to be.
Do not touch the rig. You should always scale the mesh to fit the rig. The bones will protrude in some areas, like fingers. Don't worry too much about that. You're using a DA1 mesh to derive weighting from, so match it as closely to that as possible. If you are scaling the mesh, you'll need to run a Reset XForm before exporting. It's detailed in that thread I linked to earlier.
You appear to still be adding a UVW Map modifier. Do not do that. You only ever add a Unwrap UVW modifier. That's it.
Do not touch the rig. You should always scale the mesh to fit the rig. The bones will protrude in some areas, like fingers. Don't worry too much about that. You're using a DA1 mesh to derive weighting from, so match it as closely to that as possible. If you are scaling the mesh, you'll need to run a Reset XForm before exporting. It's detailed in that thread I linked to earlier.
You appear to still be adding a UVW Map modifier. Do not do that. You only ever add a Unwrap UVW modifier. That's it.
#8
Posté 16 août 2012 - 02:39
Karma
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I added the UVM Map modifier only after not adding it didn't work. When that failed to work as well, I hit undo until before I added that modifier. I did not add it to any models since reading your second post, and I always start fresh in any attempt I make.
EDIT: I'll happily post screenshots or files or whatever is needed so that I can get this right.
EDIT: I'll happily post screenshots or files or whatever is needed so that I can get this right.
Modifié par satans_karma, 16 août 2012 - 05:18 .
#9
Posté 16 août 2012 - 09:09
Eshme
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Have you tried to wiggle some bones on your model, and see what happens?
#10
Posté 16 août 2012 - 11:33
Karma
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The first few times I practiced, moving the bones did nothing to the mesh. The next few times, the mesh moved but very awkwardly. With a combination of Darth's and amycus' tutorials, the mesh moves with the bones with fewer awkward distortions.
EDIT: Instead of messing with the seemingly working .max version of the mesh, I imported the exported version of it. When I move the bones of the exported/imported model, the mesh doesn't move, the skin modifier disappeared, and the material is no longer applied. I don't know if that's normal or not.
UPDATE: I've had some success exporting... finally. The DA2 body I was trying to port was a humanoid unibody (glv, arm, and boo all combined into one). I had been using max to do the exporting and it went through without any errors, but when I tried exporting with gmax, an error message popped up saying that it had too many bones. I split it up, and it appears to have exported now. Now on to testing the in-game skeleton/mesh distortions...
EDIT: Instead of messing with the seemingly working .max version of the mesh, I imported the exported version of it. When I move the bones of the exported/imported model, the mesh doesn't move, the skin modifier disappeared, and the material is no longer applied. I don't know if that's normal or not.
UPDATE: I've had some success exporting... finally. The DA2 body I was trying to port was a humanoid unibody (glv, arm, and boo all combined into one). I had been using max to do the exporting and it went through without any errors, but when I tried exporting with gmax, an error message popped up saying that it had too many bones. I split it up, and it appears to have exported now. Now on to testing the in-game skeleton/mesh distortions...
Modifié par satans_karma, 17 août 2012 - 12:49 .
#11
Posté 17 août 2012 - 07:26
Eshme
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I got a hard time troubleshooting honestly. The max scene wasnt the same as the gmax scene am i right?
You could upload the file and i may be able to tell ,why it reimports wrong without any errors anyway.
(The max file of course, cause the export doesnt help)
You could upload the file and i may be able to tell ,why it reimports wrong without any errors anyway.
(The max file of course, cause the export doesnt help)
Modifié par Eshme, 17 août 2012 - 08:57 .
#13
Posté 17 août 2012 - 04:37
DarthParametric
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Max 2012 I gather?
Modifié par DarthParametric, 17 août 2012 - 04:41 .
#14
Posté 17 août 2012 - 05:05
Eshme
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cant open =(
I cant think of any other files i want to see. If the model exports, and reimports with parts missing, the export is faulty. And this relates to the max scene.
Your problem still is, that skin and materials are missing am i right?
I cant think of any other files i want to see. If the model exports, and reimports with parts missing, the export is faulty. And this relates to the max scene.
Your problem still is, that skin and materials are missing am i right?
#15
Posté 17 août 2012 - 08:08
Karma
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@Darth
It's 2013.
@Eshme
I can upload a different format if that would help.
I managed to get it to work... sort of. Since 3ds max wasn't kicking up any errors when exporting, I didn't realize there were too many bones. When I imported the model I had just exported into gmax, the material was missing as was the skin modifier. Adding them back was easy enough. I then tried to re-export, it kicked up the "too many bones" error. So I opened up the max file again, broke up the mesh into the usual pieces, dispersed the bones amongst the different parts, and re-exported. That export worked in the toolset and in-game (except the bone weights which I haven't altered yet), so I assume the skin and material was maintained on that try.
It's 2013.
@Eshme
I can upload a different format if that would help.
I managed to get it to work... sort of. Since 3ds max wasn't kicking up any errors when exporting, I didn't realize there were too many bones. When I imported the model I had just exported into gmax, the material was missing as was the skin modifier. Adding them back was easy enough. I then tried to re-export, it kicked up the "too many bones" error. So I opened up the max file again, broke up the mesh into the usual pieces, dispersed the bones amongst the different parts, and re-exported. That export worked in the toolset and in-game (except the bone weights which I haven't altered yet), so I assume the skin and material was maintained on that try.
#16
Posté 17 août 2012 - 08:54
Eshme
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Sounds like max 2013 doesnt care for my error checks. Your Skinmod is always on top of the modifier stack yes? Cause thats a limitation.
Probably thats it, are you willing to help so i can fix it?
Then do this step by step
1. Select a Mesh with Skin which apparently has too many bones. (over 67)
2. Switch to Create mode (button on the rightmost panel, pretend you want to create a box)
3. Open the listener by pressing F11
4. Type in the following :"max modify mode" (without quotes)
5. It should switch from Create mode to Modify mode. The Skinmod should now be active on the panel.
6. Type again the following: "skinops.GetNumberBones $.modifiers[1]". What does it say?
Should hopefully give me the answer i need
Probably thats it, are you willing to help so i can fix it?
Then do this step by step
1. Select a Mesh with Skin which apparently has too many bones. (over 67)
2. Switch to Create mode (button on the rightmost panel, pretend you want to create a box)
3. Open the listener by pressing F11
4. Type in the following :"max modify mode" (without quotes)
5. It should switch from Create mode to Modify mode. The Skinmod should now be active on the panel.
6. Type again the following: "skinops.GetNumberBones $.modifiers[1]". What does it say?
Should hopefully give me the answer i need
#17
Posté 18 août 2012 - 12:35
Karma
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Eshme wrote...
Your Skinmod is always on top of the modifier stack yes?
No, it wasn't. Some modifiers disappear when I tweak other modifiers, and then I just add them back afterward without paying any attention to order. I didn't realize skin had to be on top. Good to know. I do get the error pop up when I move the skin modifier to the top.
Eshme wrote...
What does it say?
I'm sure this information is no longer necessary, but... with skin modifier not on top, it gives a runtime error. When I put the skin on top, it states the number of bones.
#18
Posté 18 août 2012 - 03:06
alschemid
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Last year I was helping DahliaLynn to get Fenris' model into DAO, but I have used Blender to add the DA2 model into a DAO skeleton and fix all the UV maps. So I am not sure how much I can help you there. Do you mind if I take a look on your model too?
Also I have noticed that the models I import from DAO into Max 2013 have its bone weights screwed up, not only DAO models, but ME3 too...
Also I have noticed that the models I import from DAO into Max 2013 have its bone weights screwed up, not only DAO models, but ME3 too...
#19
Posté 18 août 2012 - 04:13
DahliaLynn
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@alschemid you forgot to mention Flemeth!
@satans_karma ..I definitely recommend your taking alschemid up on her offer. She did an exceptional job manually converting, though I ended up rigging the face for face fx which turned out to be a major pain, but doing the transfer is indeed possible (thanks to her).
@satans_karma ..I definitely recommend your taking alschemid up on her offer. She did an exceptional job manually converting, though I ended up rigging the face for face fx which turned out to be a major pain, but doing the transfer is indeed possible (thanks to her).
Modifié par DahliaLynn, 18 août 2012 - 04:18 .
#20
Posté 18 août 2012 - 04:46
Karma
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The file is still up, so go for it. I haven't done anything with the bone weights yet.
#21
Posté 18 août 2012 - 06:36
Eshme
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alschemid wrote...
Last year I was helping DahliaLynn to get Fenris' model into DAO, but I have used Blender to add the DA2 model into a DAO skeleton and fix all the UV maps. So I am not sure how much I can help you there. Do you mind if I take a look on your model too?
Also I have noticed that the models I import from DAO into Max 2013 have its bone weights screwed up, not only DAO models, but ME3 too...
If thats true then max2013 will be unsupported. Is the import for ME3 made in maxscript as well? It could be another maxscript bug. Would be nothing new. Perhaps a hotfix helps, as it did for a problem in max2012 i recall.
Are you able to tell whats wrong with the bone weights in 2013? Anything that makes sense or reveals a scheme perhaps.
#22
Posté 18 août 2012 - 07:13
alschemid
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@Eshme: Yeap, the importer for ME3 is a maxscript too, called ActorX Importer. I have the impression that the group of vertices are assigned to different bones that it should be, when I import a heavy armour if I select the LeftElbow envelop the vertices belonging to the left shoulder are the ones with colour, if I select the chest envelop the left elbow vertices are colored, and so on.
@Satans: After a few minutes in Blender and Max (2009) I got this [link removed], it seems to be working, some bone weight to fix and move some bones to fit the mesh, or the other way around, though. What I did:
- exported your model from max 2013 as obj file
- imported the obj mesh into blender 2.49 b
- imported a qunari noble cloth model in blender (using Dragon Blender)
- overlaped the cloth mesh over your mesh to make them fit (mainly the hands)
- copied the bone weight from qunari noble cloth mesh to your mesh (script from Blender called bone weight copy)
- replaced the meshes and saved the msh file (using Dragon Blender)
- edited the mao file using notepad to use your textures
- imported into max 2009, edit the material name to fit the model name
- exported the model and mao file.
If you open the max file you can see the differences between mine and your file... the order of the modifiers, the UWV map in chanel 1, there are some crusts objects in your file that are huge. Also your mesh is using bones from the face that is why it was complaining about the numer of bones, but even removing them max couldn't export your model. I have no idea which problem was not allowing exporting the model. I will try to do it again only using max this time to see if I can get it working.
@Satans: After a few minutes in Blender and Max (2009) I got this [link removed], it seems to be working, some bone weight to fix and move some bones to fit the mesh, or the other way around, though. What I did:
- exported your model from max 2013 as obj file
- imported the obj mesh into blender 2.49 b
- imported a qunari noble cloth model in blender (using Dragon Blender)
- overlaped the cloth mesh over your mesh to make them fit (mainly the hands)
- copied the bone weight from qunari noble cloth mesh to your mesh (script from Blender called bone weight copy)
- replaced the meshes and saved the msh file (using Dragon Blender)
- edited the mao file using notepad to use your textures
- imported into max 2009, edit the material name to fit the model name
- exported the model and mao file.
If you open the max file you can see the differences between mine and your file... the order of the modifiers, the UWV map in chanel 1, there are some crusts objects in your file that are huge. Also your mesh is using bones from the face that is why it was complaining about the numer of bones, but even removing them max couldn't export your model. I have no idea which problem was not allowing exporting the model. I will try to do it again only using max this time to see if I can get it working.
Modifié par alschemid, 27 août 2012 - 03:47 .
#23
Posté 18 août 2012 - 07:17
DarthParametric
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You can use tazpn's DA2 tool if you want to convert DA2 models to OBJs - http://social.biowar...m/project/4253/. Saves having to use Blender.
#24
Posté 18 août 2012 - 08:44
alschemid
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DarthParametric wrote...
You can use tazpn's DA2 tool if you want to convert DA2 models to OBJs - http://social.biowar...m/project/4253/. Saves having to use Blender.
I use Blender because I am more familiar with its interface and I have less steps to go than in Max, and I love the copy bone weight script too.
@Satans: Ok, those are the steps I used to do my Kotor models... seems to work with DAO's too:
- import the qunari noble clothes into Max (I am using the 2009 because of the problem I had mentioned with the 2013)
- hide everything except the mesh
- import the new model as obj file, or any format that brings not only the mesh but the unwrap
- select the new model and Modifier->Editable Mesh->Vertex select all the vertices and proportional scale and move to fit the noble cloth mesh, if it is not yet (I do this in the vertex mode to avoid reset xform thing)
- click in the Modifier-> Editable Mesh to leave the vertex editing
- select the noble cloth mesh Modifier->Editable Poly->Element, select all the elements if they are not selected
- in the modifier rollout click Attach and click over your new model->Match Material IDs to Material
- select all the noble cloth elements and delete them (there is a hide button in the modifier rollout that can help you hide the elements you don't want deleted)
- click in the Modifier->Editable Poly to leave editing
- click Modifier->Skin
- if the mesh gets black spots you should try Modifier->Edit Normals->Reset, if it doesn't work... have no idea how to fix it (without going into blender)
- create a new dragon age character material with all the textures and set it to the model
- export the model and the mao file
Worked here, I don't know if there is an easier way to do it... if anyone find out let me know!
Modifié par alschemid, 18 août 2012 - 09:17 .
#25
Posté 18 août 2012 - 10:53
Eshme
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alschemid wrote...
@Eshme: Yeap, the importer for ME3 is a maxscript too, called ActorX Importer. I have the impression that the group of vertices are assigned to different bones that it should be, when I import a heavy armour if I select the LeftElbow envelop the vertices belonging to the left shoulder are the ones with colour, if I select the chest envelop the left elbow vertices are colored, and so on.
You get any indication of a consistant shift in the bones list? Your description makes it sound like it. The Leftelbow and Shoulder bone are probably next to each other in some models.
And would you do this on a model (save your work first), with the skin mod being active. copy paste in the Listener (F11) the following without quotes and press enter:
"for i = 1 to $.verts.count do skinOps.ReplaceVertexWeights $.modifiers[1] i 1 1"
Should reply OK
With Edit Envelopes active, which bone in the bones list now has all vertices colored red? Should be the first!
Modifié par Eshme, 18 août 2012 - 10:55 .
