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#601
Ianamus

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BrotherWarth wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

 With DA2 they basically said "**** it, they're all bisexual" and then had to constrain interactions around that decision. I'm very much opposed to making all love interests bisexual for the sheer fact that it's stupid for everyone to be so enamored by this person we're playing that their sexuality can be swung. I am bisexual, but if I were straight I don't think I would jump Hawke's bones were we of the same sex just because he's this adventurer type.


The most important thing in any RPG is player choice, and just like Heterosexual players homosexual players should get a choice in who they  romance. In DA:O it was fantastic that Zevran and Leliana was availible for people who wanted s/s romances, but unlike a straight player you only had one choice and if you didn't like their character or preferred Alistair/Morrigan it did not matter because they were the only choice you had. 

Ideally there would be a straight LI of each gender, a bisexual LI of each gender and a homosexual LI of each gender, so that everybody got equal choice, but having 6 NPC's with full romances is a lot of work, and is not practical. 4 Bisexual LI's gives everyone as much choice as possible, while not putting too much development time into romances alone. It may not make the most sense setting-wise but things like that come second to just providing the choice that people want. I thought that Bioware was right to do that with DA:2 and I hope they do it again in the future and in Dragon Age 3. 


It all comes down to resource management. Gay/lesbian/bi gamers make up a minority of their customers so content geared toward that base will be played by fewer people than content geared toward everyone else.
When it comes down to it, Leliana and Zevran being bisexual made sense, whereas every LI in DA2 being bisexual made none. I mean come on, Anders was obviously striaight before DA2 came along. Is it nice that everyone gets more than 1 or 2 choices? Sure. But it's nonsensical and as I said earlier lead to less substantial romances.


There are many female players who romanced Merrill, and many male who roamnced Fenris. Should all of those people not have been allowed to play the romances they wanted to because having 4 Bisexual LI's is "Nonsensical"? It's incredibly selfish to deny others the choices they want just because having the choice exist bugs you. 

In no way does being Bisexual make the romance "less substantial". For characters like Isabela it adds to their character, and was already a part of their character to being with, and if Merrill and Fenris were straight Li's their romances would be no different at all, and no deeper than they are currently. 

In the same way Alistair and Morrigans romances would not be very different were they bisexual- Alistair would likely reject you if he becomes king because you are male the same way he rejects you if you are a female elf or dwarf, and Morrigans would be exactly the same save for the dark ritual, which could play out nearly exactly the same as it does for a female character anyway. In no way would these romances be less substantial than they were to begin with. 

Modifié par EJ107, 18 août 2012 - 01:56 .


#602
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EJ107 wrote...

There are many female players who romanced Merrill, and many male who roamnced Fenris. Should all of those people not have been allowed to play the romances they wanted to because having 4 Bisexual LI's is "Nonsensical"? It's incredibly selfish to deny others the choices they want just because having the choice exist bugs you.


I would prefer my games make a bit of sense.

In no way does being Bisexual make the romance "less substantial".


I already explained that they do.

For characters like Isabela it adds to their character, and was already a part of their character to being with,


And I specifically mentioned Isabela was the one LI that wasn't constrained by being bisexual for no reason.

and if Merrill and Fenris were straight Li's their romances would be no different at all, and no deeper than they are currently.


You can't know that. Unless you have a device that lets you view alternate realities that's just baseless speculation.

In the same way Alistair and Morrigans romances would not be very different were they bisexual- Alistair would likely reject you if he becomes king because you are male the same way he rejects you if you are a female elf or dwarf, and Morrigans would be exactly the same save for the dark ritual, which could play out nearly exactly the same as it does for a female character anyway. In no way would these romances be less substantial than they were to begin with.


Again, baseless speculation. The fact remains, a female Warden can marry Alistair and become queen and a male Warden can father a child with Morrigan. Events like these are not possible in DA2 because they decided everyone in Thedas is bisexual.

Modifié par BrotherWarth, 18 août 2012 - 02:05 .


#603
Emzamination

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Wait nevermind

Modifié par Emzamination, 18 août 2012 - 02:53 .


#604
Ianamus

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BrotherWarth wrote...

I would prefer my games make a bit of sense.

 

Because obviously having 4 bisexual LI's suddenly makes the game make no sense, even though two of them don't even indicate that they are unless you start a romance with them in the first place. 

BrotherWarth wrote... 

You can't know that. Unless you have a device that lets you view alternate realities that's just baseless speculation.

  

Or just actually play one of those romances. They never even mention liking the opposite sex, so those romances play out exactly how they would have anyway. Bioware were not going to have Merrill get pregnant or Fenris have a huge new subplot were those romances avalible for one sex only, nor was there anything stopping Bioware doing those things with the romances as they currently stand. 

BrotherWarth wrote...


Again, baseless speculation. The fact remains, a female Warden can marry Alistair and become queen and a male Warden can father a child with Morrigan. Events like these are not possible in DA2 because they decided everyone in Thedas is bisexual.

   

Amazingly the game can actually keep track of what gender your character is, so those events are possible, and they would have been possible had Morrigan and Alistair been bisexual in Dragon Age Origins. If the player is male alistair cannot Marry him and become king, the same way they cant if they are a female elf or dwarf- but if they are a female Noble then they can. If the player is female Morrigan can only perform the Dark ritual with Alistair or Loghain, and the implications their romance have on this are discussed, while if the player is male they can perform the ritual. 

The fact that the LI's are bisexual isn't stopping Bioware from doing those plots, it's the time, money and the lack of writing anything like that into the story. There was nothing stopping them from doing it with Dragon Age 2 whatever sexuality the LI's were and theres nothing stopping them doing it with Dragon Age 3 if all LI's are bisexual there. 

Modifié par EJ107, 18 août 2012 - 02:25 .


#605
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It is my opinion, however unpopular or whatever, that there is no reason on earth all of the characters you romance should not be available for either sex to romance. The romance does not change based on what sex you are (except for a few throw-away lines from Anders or whatever) and I feel that it should be equal for all to enjoy. It's not like if you're playing a lesbian, Merrill has a totally different interaction or questline than if you're playing straight and frankly, I don't know why people continue to beat a dead horse since I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed in length and with developers on other threads. I'm all for including more interaction but do not feel that cutting out a character being available for all players is what ruined it. I think personal stigmas color this more than people would like to think.

#606
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EJ107 wrote...

a bunch of stuff


They couldn't even make different doors in Darktown to lead to 5 different areas(that's one magical door) but you think they would have made completely different content for each sex with the LIs if they felt like it? Dude, get real.

#607
Ianamus

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BrotherWarth wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

a bunch of stuff


They couldn't even make different doors in Darktown to lead to 5 different areas(that's one magical door) but you think they would have made completely different content for each sex with the LIs if they felt like it? Dude, get real.


To quote myself:

"The fact that the LI's are bisexual isn't stopping Bioware from doing those plots, it's the time, money"

What part of this sentence don't you understand? Is it the word "time" or the word "money"?

#608
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Avejajed wrote...

It is my opinion, however unpopular or whatever, that there is no reason on earth all of the characters you romance should not be available for either sex to romance. The romance does not change based on what sex you are (except for a few throw-away lines from Anders or whatever) and I feel that it should be equal for all to enjoy. It's not like if you're playing a lesbian, Merrill has a totally different interaction or questline than if you're playing straight and frankly, I don't know why people continue to beat a dead horse since I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed in length and with developers on other threads. I'm all for including more interaction but do not feel that cutting out a character being available for all players is what ruined it. I think personal stigmas color this more than people would like to think.


Well, I'm bisexual so I don't think my "personal stigma" is my problem. My problem is that the romances are more like companionships than love affairs. The romances are just as boring the rest of DA2.

#609
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EJ107 wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

a bunch of stuff


They couldn't even make different doors in Darktown to lead to 5 different areas(that's one magical door) but you think they would have made completely different content for each sex with the LIs if they felt like it? Dude, get real.


To quote myself:

"The fact that the LI's are bisexual isn't stopping Bioware from doing those plots, it's the time, money"

What part of this sentence don't you understand? Is it the word "time" or the word "money"?


Money gets allocated where ever they feel it belongs. They obviously didn't feel like unique content for LIs was important. My argument stands.

#610
Emzamination

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Avejajed wrote...

It is my opinion, however unpopular or whatever, that there is no reason on earth all of the characters you romance should not be available for either sex to romance. The romance does not change based on what sex you are (except for a few throw-away lines from Anders or whatever) and I feel that it should be equal for all to enjoy. It's not like if you're playing a lesbian, Merrill has a totally different interaction or questline than if you're playing straight and frankly, I don't know why people continue to beat a dead horse since I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed in length and with developers on other threads. I'm all for including more interaction but do not feel that cutting out a character being available for all players is what ruined it. I think personal stigmas color this more than people would like to think.


Sooooo much THIS

If Guy A is romancing Isabella in his own private playthrough, What does it matter that Girl B is romancing the same character in her own playthrough?? Is there some deep seated fear that if she's not completely straight, she might wander off with merill? Or is it a fear of Anders potentially checking them out from behind?

#611
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BrotherWarth wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

It is my opinion, however unpopular or whatever, that there is no reason on earth all of the characters you romance should not be available for either sex to romance. The romance does not change based on what sex you are (except for a few throw-away lines from Anders or whatever) and I feel that it should be equal for all to enjoy. It's not like if you're playing a lesbian, Merrill has a totally different interaction or questline than if you're playing straight and frankly, I don't know why people continue to beat a dead horse since I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed in length and with developers on other threads. I'm all for including more interaction but do not feel that cutting out a character being available for all players is what ruined it. I think personal stigmas color this more than people would like to think.


Well, I'm bisexual so I don't think my "personal stigma" is my problem. My problem is that the romances are more like companionships than love affairs. The romances are just as boring the rest of DA2.


I dig what you're planting,I do. But I DONT think that the romances are boring or that they lack depth because they are all bisexual. I think they are boring and lack depth because they ran out of time/energy/inclination to do better. I don't think their sexual orientation has anything to do with it.

#612
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Emzamination wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

It is my opinion, however unpopular or whatever, that there is no reason on earth all of the characters you romance should not be available for either sex to romance. The romance does not change based on what sex you are (except for a few throw-away lines from Anders or whatever) and I feel that it should be equal for all to enjoy. It's not like if you're playing a lesbian, Merrill has a totally different interaction or questline than if you're playing straight and frankly, I don't know why people continue to beat a dead horse since I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed in length and with developers on other threads. I'm all for including more interaction but do not feel that cutting out a character being available for all players is what ruined it. I think personal stigmas color this more than people would like to think.


Sooooo much THIS

If Guy A is romancing Isabella in his own private playthrough, What does it matter that Girl B is romancing the same character in her own playthrough?? Is there some deep seated fear that if she's not completely straight, she might wander off with merill? Or is it a fear of Anders potentially checking them out from behind?


I don't think it's the case with everyone, obviously, but I do feel like this is more of a problem than people would like to admit. I know a lot of guys who got really upset when Anders "hits" on them- as if a video game character would suddenly make them question their sexuality. It's my opinion that a lot of the animosity torward having all characters be bisexual is really stemming from that. Like I said, not everyone, and also it's just my opinion.

#613
Emzamination

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Avejajed wrote...

I don't think it's the case with everyone, obviously, but I do feel like this is more of a problem than people would like to admit. I know a lot of guys who got really upset when Anders "hits" on them- as if a video game character would suddenly make them question their sexuality. It's my opinion that a lot of the animosity torward having all characters be bisexual is really stemming from that. Like I said, not everyone, and also it's just my opinion.


Qft, Couldn't of polished that better 

Modifié par Emzamination, 18 août 2012 - 02:57 .


#614
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Avejajed wrote...

I don't think it's the case with everyone, obviously, but I do feel like this is more of a problem than people would like to admit. I know a lot of guys who got really upset when Anders "hits" on them- as if a video game character would suddenly make them question their sexuality. It's my opinion that a lot of the animosity torward having all characters be bisexual is really stemming from that. Like I said, not everyone, and also it's just my opinion.


The most common complaint I saw regarding Anders hitting on male Hawkes was that he did so whether you dropped any hints or not, and that the only way to decline the romance was to be a **** about it.
But even for the people who were put off by it from the start probably would have been less put off if Anders weren't such a whiny emo ****.

#615
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I always thought it was funny when Anders hit on my male Hawk.......but It's never upset me that everyone goes both ways

#616
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BrotherWarth wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

I don't think it's the case with everyone, obviously, but I do feel like this is more of a problem than people would like to admit. I know a lot of guys who got really upset when Anders "hits" on them- as if a video game character would suddenly make them question their sexuality. It's my opinion that a lot of the animosity torward having all characters be bisexual is really stemming from that. Like I said, not everyone, and also it's just my opinion.


The most common complaint I saw regarding Anders hitting on male Hawkes was that he did so whether you dropped any hints or not, and that the only way to decline the romance was to be a **** about it.
But even for the people who were put off by it from the start probably would have been less put off if Anders weren't such a whiny emo ****.


Well. That's Anders for you. He's a whiny emo **** regardless of who he hits on. There's that character depth you're looking for. ;) That to me again is more of a developer not adding enough choices problem than a sexuality problem.

#617
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Avejajed wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

I don't think it's the case with everyone, obviously, but I do feel like this is more of a problem than people would like to admit. I know a lot of guys who got really upset when Anders "hits" on them- as if a video game character would suddenly make them question their sexuality. It's my opinion that a lot of the animosity torward having all characters be bisexual is really stemming from that. Like I said, not everyone, and also it's just my opinion.


The most common complaint I saw regarding Anders hitting on male Hawkes was that he did so whether you dropped any hints or not, and that the only way to decline the romance was to be a **** about it.
But even for the people who were put off by it from the start probably would have been less put off if Anders weren't such a whiny emo ****.


Well. That's Anders for you. He's a whiny emo **** regardless of who he hits on. There's that character depth you're looking for. ;) That to me again is more of a developer not adding enough choices problem than a sexuality problem.


If only Anders had had some depth in DA2. Sigh. If only.

#618
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BrotherWarth wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Avejajed wrote...

I don't think it's the case with everyone, obviously, but I do feel like this is more of a problem than people would like to admit. I know a lot of guys who got really upset when Anders "hits" on them- as if a video game character would suddenly make them question their sexuality. It's my opinion that a lot of the animosity torward having all characters be bisexual is really stemming from that. Like I said, not everyone, and also it's just my opinion.


The most common complaint I saw regarding Anders hitting on male Hawkes was that he did so whether you dropped any hints or not, and that the only way to decline the romance was to be a **** about it.
But even for the people who were put off by it from the start probably would have been less put off if Anders weren't such a whiny emo ****.


Well. That's Anders for you. He's a whiny emo **** regardless of who he hits on. There's that character depth you're looking for. ;) That to me again is more of a developer not adding enough choices problem than a sexuality problem.


If only Anders had had some depth in DA2. Sigh. If only.


I feel your pain, I do. My point is that Anders is a dick to a female Hawke who turns him down too. There's just no easy way to turn him down regardless of what sex he hits on. :) He's just a jerk that way. Make sense?

#619
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Avejajed wrote...

I feel your pain, I do. My point is that Anders is a dick to a female Hawke who turns him down too. There's just no easy way to turn him down regardless of what sex he hits on. :) He's just a jerk that way. Make sense?


I recall femHawke being much more congenial about it. I may be wrong, but I recall male Hawke being much more snide about the advances.

#620
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Can we not make this the weekly bi LI thread? Please?

#621
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KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Can we not make this the weekly bi LI thread? Please?


Your wish is my command! I've said what I wanted to say. :)

#622
ElitePinecone

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Quick, different speculation topic GO.

#623
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ElitePinecone wrote...

Quick, different speculation topic GO.


Cassandra will be a bisexual LI!

#624
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I speculate that David Gaider will do something horrible to a fan-favorite just because I don't think he likes the forumites much. lol. Go!

#625
BioFan (Official)

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ElitePinecone wrote...

Quick, different speculation topic GO.



ummm... ummm... umm....


how do you think morrigan will appear in DA3!?!?!? :pinched: