2251 réponses à ce sujet

[Ilidan_DA]

What do you think?

[ElitePinecone]

That was a DA2 developer mockup made before it even entered production, as an example of how Hawke's escape from the Blightlands with Flemeth's "airstrike" could have looked.

I mean, they might've taken some concepts and characters and used them for The Next Thing (it seems Sera is represented there, or at least an elf that looks remarkably like her) but it's at least two years old.

I think it's mistaken to speculate much about anything from that video.

[Dagr88]

I like the "Horse" character.

Modifié par Dagr88, 23 août 2012 - 09:43 .

[Ilidan_DA]

Dagr88 wrote...

I like the "Horse" character.

Me too.

[Knight of Dane]

Sera looks horrible

Why are biowares artists so intent on that grim witchy look for their female elf concepts. They are supposed to be pure and cute, not glum and dark.

[DarthChicken]

Knight of Dane wrote...
They are supposed to be pure and cute, not glum and dark.

Riiiight. Except when, you know, they're not. 

[ElitePinecone]

DarthChicken wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...
They are supposed to be pure and cute, not glum and dark.

Riiiight. Except when, you know, they're not. 

This.

Also isn't it kinda the point that DA's elves subvert the tropes? They're hardly Tolkienesque paragons of virtue and honour and warm fuzzy magic. They have an underclass, probably even more so because the rest of the world deliberately supresses them. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Actually, the DA2 elves fit the trope for poor oppressed goblins. Hence, at this moment forth, that's what they shall be called Dragon Age goblins. I wonder if we'll get to play a goblin in DA3?

[Knight of Dane]

But that's not how they are supposed to look. Elven women descriped in the books and as the exotic beings nobles all dream about, is not like that in the games.

Why would any noble want to screw one of those they draw.
But perhaps that is the point - to avoid the lusty wrath of the nobles 

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 23 août 2012 - 11:35 .

[syllogi]

DarthChicken wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...
They are supposed to be pure and cute, not glum and dark.

Riiiight. Except when, you know, they're not. 

I'd really hope that each and every elf we meet has a unique and distinct personality, even the ones who are female and potential love interests. What if the female elf party member is a bit older and worldwise, and GASP has had sex with other people before the big strong player character comes along to rock her world, but she's still good and kind and wants to help others? Is she not "pure and cute"?

[DarthChicken]

Knight of Dane wrote...

But that's not how they are supposed to look. Elven women descriped in the books and as the exotic beings nobles all dream about, is not like that in the games.

Why would any noble want to screw one of those they draw.
But perhaps that is the point - to avoid the lusty wrath of the nobles 

The games are the primary source of what DA elves are "supposed" to look like, though. When I think DA elves I don't think, nor do I think I am supposed to think, of perfect little quasi-mystical beings. I think of wild and/or oppressed beings, who wouldn't live as second class citizens if all nobles dreamt about them. 

syllogi wrote...

I'd really hope that each and every elf we meet has a unique and distinct personality, even the ones who are female and potential love interests. What if the female elf party member is a bit older and worldwise, and GASP has had sex with other people before the big strong player character comes along to rock her world, but she's still good and kind and wants to help others? Is she not "pure and cute"?

 
Hey, I agree with you. I don't think any group of people in any form of media should be able to be summed up with a bullet point or two. Whether that be "pure and cute" or something else entirely. To answer your question, when I think of a character that fits your description I don't think of "pure and cute."

Modifié par DarthChicken, 23 août 2012 - 11:48 .

[syllogi]

Knight of Dane wrote...

But that's not how they are supposed to look. Elven women descriped in the books and as the exotic beings nobles all dream about, is not like that in the games.

Why would any noble want to screw one of those they draw.
But perhaps that is the point - to avoid the lusty wrath of the nobles 

Yeah, I read all the books and played both games, and at no point were they described as pure and cute. 

Elves are described as being attractive to humans, but nothing about the concept art we've seen shows a female elf who is purposely unattractive. 

[Wulfram]

Well, the idea that elves are good looking is in the games too. "many people find them pleasing to look at", as Leliana says in one of her less diplomatic moments.

And there's all those elvish prostitutes.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 août 2012 - 11:49 .

[Knight of Dane]

syllogi wrote...

DarthChicken wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...
They are supposed to be pure and cute, not glum and dark.

Riiiight. Except when, you know, they're not. 

I'd really hope that each and every elf we meet has a unique and distinct personality, even the ones who are female and potential love interests. What if the female elf party member is a bit older and worldwise, and GASP has had sex with other people before the big strong player character comes along to rock her world, but she's still good and kind and wants to help others? Is she not "pure and cute"?

This is not about personlality, this about elves matching their description as they are potrayed when characters talk about them or in the books.

Everywhere you read about elves both in in-game lore and in the novels they are descriped like this:
"Exotic, Slender, Beautiful, Nimble, Gentle, Pure"

Exotic is a matter of where you are from I'm not exotic to other danes, but Chinese women might see me as such.
They are slender. This is what the DA2 model does good. They picture the elves slimmer and longer limbed than humans, i liked that part of it.
The new elven models are far from beautiul though, but i feel indifferent about them compared to the DA:O elves, i still don't think they have been made justice.
Nimble they can be, but is a matter og role.
Gentle... Well, some of them are.
Pure can be seen as both personality and.. aura i guess. Tallis is not pure, nor is she a lesser character for that, but she's not "elfish" as in the dream description. Merrill is pure as she's naive i guess, her looks are somewhat pure, but not what i personally imagine the word as first hand. Lia is pure, but she's a kid. Nyssa has a pure soul for her hope, but given her age and experience she's far from pure in that regard.
But we have yet to meet an elf like this:



And I'm not saying every elf from now on should be like that, I'd just like for bioware to at least try.

[syllogi]

Hey, I agree with you. I don't think any group of people in any form of media should be able to be summed up with a bullet point or two. Whether that be "pure and cute" or something else entirely. To answer your question, when I think of a character that fits your description I don't think of "pure and cute."

Haha, I agreed with your quote, the question was meant for Knight of Dane, I guess it wasn't clear. 

[Knight of Dane]

syllogi wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

But that's not how they are supposed to look. Elven women descriped in the books and as the exotic beings nobles all dream about, is not like that in the games.

Why would any noble want to screw one of those they draw.
But perhaps that is the point - to avoid the lusty wrath of the nobles 

Yeah, I read all the books and played both games, and at no point were they described as pure and cute. 

Elves are described as being attractive to humans, but nothing about the concept art we've seen shows a female elf who is purposely unattractive. 

Read them again. Maric clearly descripes them in the Stolen Throne, Katriel compared to his imagination. 

[DarthChicken]

syllogi wrote...

Hey, I agree with you. I don't think any group of people in any form of media should be able to be summed up with a bullet point or two. Whether that be "pure and cute" or something else entirely. To answer your question, when I think of a character that fits your description I don't think of "pure and cute."

Haha, I agreed with your quote, the question was meant for Knight of Dane, I guess it wasn't clear. 

Ah, my misunderstanding. 

Knight of Dane wrote...
Read them again. Maric clearly descripes them in the Stolen Throne, Katriel compared to his imagination. 

I care relatively little about the way that they are described. What is significantly more important, in my opinion, is the way that they are treated in the games. 
Let's tally up the amount of times a character belittles versus how many times they are regarded as exotic, gentle, and beautiful. 

Modifié par DarthChicken, 23 août 2012 - 12:01 .

[Knight of Dane]

syllogi wrote...

Hey, I agree with you. I don't think any group of people in any form of media should be able to be summed up with a bullet point or two. Whether that be "pure and cute" or something else entirely. To answer your question, when I think of a character that fits your description I don't think of "pure and cute."

Haha, I agreed with your quote, the question was meant for Knight of Dane, I guess it wasn't clear. 

And i answered further up.
My point is not to make every elf match the beauty-concept, bioware is pretty much doing the opposite as it is.
But make some, or just one. It's tiring that a combatant should look like a thickjawed simpletoon just because of what they are. I like fantasy for being able to break those stigmas.

[Mr Fixit]

Knight of Dane wrote...

But we have yet to meet an elf like this:



And I'm not saying every elf from now on should be like that, I'd just like for bioware to at least try.

But what do these "elves" tell me? All I see are humans with pointy ears. Not a good way to start differentiating a species.

[Knight of Dane]

Mr Fixit wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

But we have yet to meet an elf like this:



And I'm not saying every elf from now on should be like that, I'd just like for bioware to at least try.

But what do these "elves" tell me? All I see are humans with pointy ears. Not a good way to start differentiating a species.

And that is how you feel, good for you. Seriously. 
I don't want all elves to be like that I said, but some. Bioware is harly going out of their way to do so as it is. Does all elves need to be trashy and spent?

[Corto81]

Mr Fixit wrote...

But what do these "elves" tell me? All I see are humans with pointy ears. Not a good way to start differentiating a species.

The Elves, as fantasy Elves have been known, have basically been "beatiful, slender humans" with pointy ears since Norse mythology and especially after Tolkien.

What Bioware did in DA2 isn't that they're humans with pointy ears.

They just went from beautiful, slender humans with pointy ears to run-down, spent fish-eyed humans with pointy ears.

[Jerrybnsn]

For those wondering who Katriel was in the Stolen Throne that stoled King Maric's heart.

http://t0.gstatic.co...R88ojgQSef9A4Pw


Not this

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 23 août 2012 - 12:32 .

[ElitePinecone]

Knight of Dane wrote...

I don't want all elves to be like that I said, but some. Bioware is harly going out of their way to do so as it is. Does all elves need to be trashy and spent?

This is 'gritty fantasy'. Just like in the real world, there are no perfect, angelic individuals of any species. Pretty much everyone is flawed. DA's elves might have pointy ears and magic, but why should they be paragons of virtue and "cuteness"? A one-dimensional character would be incredibly mundane - not to mention the weird fetishisation of innocence. 

Personally I loved the contradictions in Merrill (Welsh-accented virginal elf unleashes hordes of demons) and Zathrian (noble and wise forest leader is actually a mass murderer) - it does a lot to make the characters seem more than literary tropes, and steers the setting far away from the absurdly *un*realistic Tolkien ideal. 

[ladyofpayne]

Wiedzmin182009 wrote...

What do you think?

Sera is like Alien.

[R2s Muse]

I think there's a distinction to be drawn between the elven appearance, pointy ears, human/non-human eyes, and elven demeanor or character, pure, spent. Assuming elven women were intended to be some kind of pure-as-the-driven-snow paragon of beauty doesn't seem to be born out by the game. And, just because Maric has these fantasies that Katriel can capitalize on also doesn't mean they're universal truths about elves. This concept of purity in women is rather gender-laden.