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[Emzamination]

esper wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

I rather doubt they will broke peace so quickly, that just sound weird. But I am all for replacing the chantry.

But as I said, I doubt will get to have such a meaningfull decision. Also someone behind everything is just bad. The whole point of da2 was that there was no evil master mind, and I really think less lyrium riddled idols would make it all better.

Some of those Chantry apologist like wynne and the warden's mentor for example might be the ones trying to broker peace and the pc might just be an Apprentice forced to fix everything

Isn't Wynne pretty much out of the picture past Asunder? And Irving I can't see be important, unless you meant Duncan of course in which case. he is out of the picture.

I just can't see a peace meeting having any real man power 10 years past da:o which is so close to da2 and Asunder.

And actually I am not sure I want to be pro-peace. If we are to participate in civil war with more, I want to be able to expres an opinion to take sides - sure I might in the end be forced to not broke peace, but I want to be able to express any political opinion I want. And if that is the case why would the apologists ever come to me to fix everything?

The only thing I can see being part of a political group working is if I get to form the group what its political stance is. If not, they need to have more than one political group for us to be part of.

No, I don't mean they specifically would be at the meeting but other mages of their mindset could be. Commander shepard from mass effect was forced into joining a certain faction but She/he still had the free will to broker peace or break it as She/he saw fit.In a scenerio like I mentioned above you might not be pro peace but if you had a mentor, they likely would be. The mage warden could be anti peace while her/his mentor was pro peace even tho they both belonged to the same faction

[esper]

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

I rather doubt they will broke peace so quickly, that just sound weird. But I am all for replacing the chantry.

But as I said, I doubt will get to have such a meaningfull decision. Also someone behind everything is just bad. The whole point of da2 was that there was no evil master mind, and I really think less lyrium riddled idols would make it all better.

Some of those Chantry apologist like wynne and the warden's mentor for example might be the ones trying to broker peace and the pc might just be an Apprentice forced to fix everything

Isn't Wynne pretty much out of the picture past Asunder? And Irving I can't see be important, unless you meant Duncan of course in which case. he is out of the picture.

I just can't see a peace meeting having any real man power 10 years past da:o which is so close to da2 and Asunder.

And actually I am not sure I want to be pro-peace. If we are to participate in civil war with more, I want to be able to expres an opinion to take sides - sure I might in the end be forced to not broke peace, but I want to be able to express any political opinion I want. And if that is the case why would the apologists ever come to me to fix everything?

The only thing I can see being part of a political group working is if I get to form the group what its political stance is. If not, they need to have more than one political group for us to be part of.

No, I don't mean they specifically would be at the meeting but other mages of their mindset could be. Commander shepard from mass effect was forced into joining a certain faction but She/he still had the free will to broker peace or break it as She/he saw fit.In a scenerio like I mentioned above you might not be pro peace but if you had a mentor, they likely would be. The mage warden could be anti peace while her/his mentor was pro peace even tho they both belonged to the same faction

The warden is as a group official anti-political, but doesn't follow it. That gives the characther a opening to say what they want because the group called warden is only unified in 'let's kill darkspawn'.

Any political group is not. And it would be riducules to have a Wynne-like mentor, who didn't know I didn't shared her/his opinion and thus tried to make me broke peace if I was not inclined to it.

And I have already decided, I am to be called inquestior I will be ruthless and extreme (those are the accossiations I get with that name) and I always play a honest person. I just doesn't make sense.

[Brockololly]

esper wrote...
I am actually hoping that the inquestion ends up discovering that there is not big bad, just a lot of foolish humans (and elves, dwarves and kossiths) and the whole thing ends with the downfall of Orlais or something like that.

Maybe. But the impression I'm getting from everything post DA2 is that BioWare seems to think one of the failings of DA2 or one of the reasons it failed was that it wasn't a typical "Save the world from Big Bad!" type story. Which I don't think was necessarily the case, just that the story DA2 was trying to tell was very poorly told.

I'm just guessing DA3 will be very traditional in how it adheres to the typical BioWare story fomula of joining secret elite order of badasses--> travel to several places across the world to uncover mystery/gather allies--> confront Big Bad--> make heroic sacrifice--> end game.

Not that that formula is intrinsically bad, but I'm getting the impression DA3 might be a kneejerk reaction type game back to a super safe, by the numbers BioWare story.

[esper]

Brockololly wrote...

esper wrote...
I am actually hoping that the inquestion ends up discovering that there is not big bad, just a lot of foolish humans (and elves, dwarves and kossiths) and the whole thing ends with the downfall of Orlais or something like that.

Maybe. But the impression I'm getting from everything post DA2 is that BioWare seems to think one of the failings of DA2 or one of the reasons it failed was that it wasn't a typical "Save the world from Big Bad!" type story. Which I don't think was necessarily the case, just that the story DA2 was trying to tell was very poorly told.

I'm just guessing DA3 will be very traditional in how it adheres to the typical BioWare story fomula of joining secret elite order of badasses--> travel to several places across the world to uncover mystery/gather allies--> confront Big Bad--> make heroic sacrifice--> end game.

Not that that formula is intrinsically bad, but I'm getting the impression DA3 might be a kneejerk reaction type game back to a super safe, by the numbers BioWare story.

I fear that, I hope not. The more I hear the more I fear I won't like da3

[TEWR]

brushyourteeth wrote...


Oh, good call. Though we've never heard anything from that.

Not true. We have actually, in Awakening. 

So yep. Probably some investigating in musty old Tevinter libraries in our future if this theory's correct. 

I'd like to read more of the Canticle of Shartan. We know so little about it, aside from the Dark Moon's codex segment telling us about it.

Hell, just give me more Shartan in general. I was astounded to learn that the blade he used -- the blade Andraste herself handed him -- was forged with a blood magic ability. That, to me, supports my belief that Andraste was at the very least a blood mage.

[brushyourteeth]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...


Oh, good call. Though we've never heard anything from that.

Not true. We have actually, in Awakening. 

Do you remember where/how/what? I'd love to go back and check it out.

[deuce985]

How can you assert this as "fact" based on a survey? Even if Bioware is allowing these surveys, nothing is set in stone. It's simply feeling opinions.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
I'm honestly disappointed, TEWR - I thought you were a writer.

Aspiring writer, really. But calling myself The Ethereal Aspiring Writer Redux isn't as catchy.

You honestly can't think of any reason the Inquisition might not be all Chantry?

None. If the idea was to play as a Seeker, that'd be a different matter. There are plenty of reasons why one would be a Seeker and not be pro-Chantry, but the Inquisition is by default anti-Mage and anti-Chantry -- or at least pro-Chantry in a warped sense of the mindset.

And I edited my post to remove the pro-Chantry segment, as in the past I've said the New Inquisition was by default anti-Chantry so I wanted to remain consistent. They defected from the Chantry, planned to kill the Divine, and want to slaughter the Mages. By going against the Divine, they are going against the Chantry itself.

Well. There's high potential for a split within the Chantry itself, because we already know that there are people who resent Justinia having ascended to the seat of the Divine.  I could see a sect arising within the Chantry in support of the Seekers under Lambert, specifically in opposition not to the Chantry per se, but to Justinia, on the belief that she is poisoning the Chantry with her radicalism.  So Justinia will have her supporters, of course, who believe that they are pro-Chantry, but you can bet there will be those who believe themselves to be pro-Chantry because they are anti-Justinia.  There's a ton of rich, compelling material for a many-sided conflict sooo much more complex than just having one pro, one con, and one neutral side. 

[Emzamination]

esper wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

I rather doubt they will broke peace so quickly, that just sound weird. But I am all for replacing the chantry.

But as I said, I doubt will get to have such a meaningfull decision. Also someone behind everything is just bad. The whole point of da2 was that there was no evil master mind, and I really think less lyrium riddled idols would make it all better.

Some of those Chantry apologist like wynne and the warden's mentor for example might be the ones trying to broker peace and the pc might just be an Apprentice forced to fix everything

Isn't Wynne pretty much out of the picture past Asunder? And Irving I can't see be important, unless you meant Duncan of course in which case. he is out of the picture.

I just can't see a peace meeting having any real man power 10 years past da:o which is so close to da2 and Asunder.

And actually I am not sure I want to be pro-peace. If we are to participate in civil war with more, I want to be able to expres an opinion to take sides - sure I might in the end be forced to not broke peace, but I want to be able to express any political opinion I want. And if that is the case why would the apologists ever come to me to fix everything?

The only thing I can see being part of a political group working is if I get to form the group what its political stance is. If not, they need to have more than one political group for us to be part of.

No, I don't mean they specifically would be at the meeting but other mages of their mindset could be. Commander shepard from mass effect was forced into joining a certain faction but She/he still had the free will to broker peace or break it as She/he saw fit.In a scenerio like I mentioned above you might not be pro peace but if you had a mentor, they likely would be. The mage warden could be anti peace while her/his mentor was pro peace even tho they both belonged to the same faction

The warden is as a group official anti-political, but doesn't follow it. That gives the characther a opening to say what they want because the group called warden is only unified in 'let's kill darkspawn'.

Any political group is not. And it would be riducules to have a Wynne-like mentor, who didn't know I didn't shared her/his opinion and thus tried to make me broke peace if I was not inclined to it.

And I have already decided, I am to be called inquestior I will be ruthless and extreme (those are the accossiations I get with that name) and I always play a honest person. I just doesn't make sense.

Well yes but we have no indication it's a political group, the goal and agenda of the group could go either way. The description did mention marshalling forces so this could mean the pc is in charge of these new 'inquisitors' and will likely dictate their beliefs and standing in orlais

I do agree that the name inquistor just screams ruthless punisher

[TEWR]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Do you remember where/how/what? I'd love to go back and check it out.

Wending Wood quest given by the Merchant's Guild board in the City of Amaranthine. It's pretty short though and is analogous to the Gospel of Judas in many ways.

These verses were carved into statues in the Wending Wood. They appear to be from the Canticle of Maferath, which the Chantry includes among the Dissonant Verses, unacknowledged in the Chant of Light.)

Spite ate away all that was good, kind, and loving till nothing was left but the spite itself, coiled 'round my heart like a great worm.

And in my darkest hour, I turned from Her and vowed that I would destroy Her.

At the moment of Her death I knew what I had done, and I wept.

I shall bring the lands of my fathers to Her Word. Therein lies their salvation and mine.

And She came to me in a vision and laid Her hand on my heart.

Her touch was like fire that did not burn. And by Her touch, I was made pure again.

Despair not, said She, for your betrayal was Maker-blessed and returned me to His side.

I am forgiven.

What's interesting is that this implies -- or outright states, if you want -- that the Maker not only knew Maferath would betray Andraste, but wanted him to do so.

Which would then by extension suggest he's always been watching the world after Andraste's death, contrary to the Chantry's prevailing belief that He abandoned them and is waiting for them to be worthy again.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 août 2012 - 08:12 .

[esper]

Emzamination wrote...

snip

Well yes but we have no indication it's a political group, the goal and agenda of the group could go either way. The description did mention marshalling forces so this could mean the pc is in charge of these new 'inquisitors' and will likely dictate their beliefs and standing in orlais

I do agree that the name inquistor just screams ruthless punisher

That I could get behind as long as we get the option to take any political side from extreme, to neutral, to modarate and all in between. Somehow though I doubt we will get to do that, but if we did, it would be fun.

I still think something else than Inquistor. I think I will have trouble ever making a nice person who joined (or named) a group that. 

[Big I]

brushyourteeth wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...
Oh, good call. Though we've never heard anything from that.

Not true. We have actually, in Awakening. 

Do you remember where/how/what? I'd love to go back and check it out.

It's the quest to track down the Canticle from stone monuments in the forest area where you meet Velana. The text is probably up on the wiki; the Canticle deals with Maferath receiveing a a dream after Andraste dies where she absolves him of his betrayal and says her death was necessary. Afterwards he dedicates himself to spreading the Chant to the Alamarri.

[Ianamus]

I really like the concept of an inquisition- although it may be a Bioware cliché now I love the idea of creating an organisation and bringing people into it, increasing it's power, and controlling where it goes. I also think that "Entire chantry leadership killed in huge arcane explosion" is a much better start to a story than DA2's. It even has a mystery element of exactly who/what caused it.

I like how "inquisitor" is vague enough to imply we might be able to play as one of the other races this time, if any of this is true, although I struggle to see how a dwarf would get involved in a chantry matter. Maybe very senior Dwarven nobles/ the King are present at the time of the disaster. That would give them a reason to get involved.

[TEWR]

EJ107 wrote...

I like how "inquisitor" is vague enough to imply we might be able to play as one of the other races this time, if any of this is true, although I struggle to see how a dwarf would get involved in a chantry matter.

Get mages to fight the Darkspawn, try and play both sides for the lyrium trade so as to increase Orzammar's profits, be blackmailed into assisting, be a mercenary, etc.

But that works more for the Seeker group under Justinia V then it does an anti-Chantry group such as the New Inquisition. At least, until I find out more about this idea the thread is discussing.

Silfren wrote...

There's a ton of rich, compelling material for a many-sided conflict sooo much more complex than just having one pro, one con, and one neutral side. 

Perhaps, but I doubt Bioware will follow through with such a concept, considering how they couldn't even handle DAII's and MotA's viewpoints and concepts.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 15 août 2012 - 08:20 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Unsuspecting Idiot wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

I hope, hope, hope, this is not true. Inquestioner holds a very loaded meaning both in game and in real world and the though of going a whole game with people calling me that makes me feel very badly.
If thi turn out to be true, da3 will really be my last dragon age game :-(

THE INQUISITION HAS BEGUN!!!!

Jesus, Emzamination! I didn't expect The Spanish Inquistion.

*Bursts into thread*

Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition!

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 15 août 2012 - 08:20 .

[esper]

BrotherWarth wrote...

I think there's something that some people fail to understand with this. This is a form of focus grouping. It's a common practice with movies, television shows, video games, etc.
I know of several websites that provide this specific service to companies. Some companies have their own in-house focus group systems, but still use outside companies to test different demographics(European consumers, under 18, etc.).
When this sort of thing is done for movies and TV shows it's at a point in production when things are still in flux. Generally when a show is still in the pilot stage and films are still in the early editing stage when new footage can still be filmed/added. I would imagine the process is similar for video games- the game is still very much in development and these ideas can still be altered but not completely changed.

We don't even know it is real. The only reason we are discussing it is because it is a new subject to discuss. And it gives some idea for da3.

[Emzamination]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Unsuspecting Idiot wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

esper wrote...

I hope, hope, hope, this is not true. Inquestioner holds a very loaded meaning both in game and in real world and the though of going a whole game with people calling me that makes me feel very badly.
If thi turn out to be true, da3 will really be my last dragon age game :-(

THE INQUISITION HAS BEGUN!!!!

Jesus, Emzamination! I didn't expect The Spanish Inquistion.

*Bursts into thread*

Nobody expects The Spanish Inquisition!

lol I did not expect that

[brushyourteeth]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

What's interesting is that this implies -- or outright states, if you want -- that the Maker not only knew Maferath would betray Andraste, but wanted him to do so.

Which would then by extension suggest he's always been watching the world after Andraste's death, contrary to the Chantry's prevailing belief that He abandoned them and is waiting for them to be worthy again.

Interesting! There are a few other verses that kind of imply the same thing. Either the Chantry doesn't know what it's about or they're not very good at drawing the distinction between the Maker's refusal to help and his completely turning away from the ones he created.

Those who bear false witness
And work to deceive others, know this:
There is but one Truth.
All things are known to our Maker
And He shall judge their lies.

All things in this world are finite.
What one man gains, another has lost.
Those who steal from their brothers and sisters
Do harm to their livelihood and to their peace of mind.
Our Maker sees this with a heavy heart.
-Transfigurations 1:4-5

Transfigurations 10 also says that for the person who is faithful to the maker "The Light shall lead her safely
Through the paths of this world"

So, you know... I don't really know what that could mean for the game, but interesting to think about.

[thats1evildude]

I'll pre-order right now if they give me one of those dashing red robes.

[Emzamination]

esper wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

I think there's something that some people fail to understand with this. This is a form of focus grouping. It's a common practice with movies, television shows, video games, etc.
I know of several websites that provide this specific service to companies. Some companies have their own in-house focus group systems, but still use outside companies to test different demographics(European consumers, under 18, etc.).
When this sort of thing is done for movies and TV shows it's at a point in production when things are still in flux. Generally when a show is still in the pilot stage and films are still in the early editing stage when new footage can still be filmed/added. I would imagine the process is similar for video games- the game is still very much in development and these ideas can still be altered but not completely changed.

We don't even know it is real. The only reason we are discussing it is because it is a new subject to discuss. And it gives some idea for da3.

 Might have something to do with this as well

[Reznore57]

The spanish inquisition!
Always remind of kids playing inquisitor in the book Good Omens :

"Art thou a witch, oh lay?" said the Chief Inquisitor.
"Yes," said Pepper's little sister
"You mustn't say yes, you've got to say no," hissed the Head Torturer, nudging the suspect.
"And then what?" demanded the suspect.
"And then we torture you to make you say yes," said the Head Torturer. "I told you. It's good fun,
the torturin'. It doesn't hurt. Hastar lar visa," she added quickly.

[esper]

brushyourteeth wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

What's interesting is that this implies -- or outright states, if you want -- that the Maker not only knew Maferath would betray Andraste, but wanted him to do so.

Which would then by extension suggest he's always been watching the world after Andraste's death, contrary to the Chantry's prevailing belief that He abandoned them and is waiting for them to be worthy again.

Interesting! There are a few other verses that kind of imply the same thing. Either the Chantry doesn't know what it's about or they're not very good at drawing the distinction between the Maker's refusal to help and his completely turning away from the ones he created.

Those who bear false witness
And work to deceive others, know this:
There is but one Truth.
All things are known to our Maker
And He shall judge their lies.

All things in this world are finite.
What one man gains, another has lost.
Those who steal from their brothers and sisters
Do harm to their livelihood and to their peace of mind.
Our Maker sees this with a heavy heart.
-Transfigurations 1:4-5

Transfigurations 10 also says that for the person who is faithful to the maker "The Light shall lead her safely
Through the paths of this world"

So, you know... I don't really know what that could mean for the game, but interesting to think about.

The one thing I really don't want to see is the Maker being real. If we get any kind of confirmation of that... I'll... I don't know. Stop loving Thedas so much, because it will lose that which makes it unique and just be another fantasy setting were myth = reality and it all comes down to who can find the right version of the myth.

Modifié par esper, 15 août 2012 - 08:28 .

[brushyourteeth]

esper wrote...

The one thing I really don't want to see is the Maker being real. If we get any kind of confirmation of that... I'll... I don't know. Stop loving Thedas so much, because it will lose that which makes it unique and just be another fantasy setting were myth = reality and it all comes down to who can find the right version of the myth.

I don't see the devs ever confirming that he's real, but if they it'll be because he's not at all what we've been expecting. So I wouldn't worry about it.

[TEWR]

esper wrote...

The one thing I really don't want to see is the Maker being real. If we get any kind of confirmation of that... I'll... I don't know. Stop loving Thedas so much, because it will lose that which makes it unique and just be another fantasy setting were myth = reality and it all comes down to who can find the right version of the myth.

All the religions in Thedas are probably true. All the gods believed in exist. The Dalish pantheon is real, the Maker is real, the Stone is a living entity, the Avvar/Chasind gods are probably real (though we know very little about those cultures), and so on and so forth.