2251 réponses à ce sujet

[esper]

brushyourteeth wrote...

esper wrote...

The one thing I really don't want to see is the Maker being real. If we get any kind of confirmation of that... I'll... I don't know. Stop loving Thedas so much, because it will lose that which makes it unique and just be another fantasy setting were myth = reality and it all comes down to who can find the right version of the myth.

I don't see the devs ever confirming that he's real, but if they it'll be because he's not at all what we've been expecting. So I wouldn't worry about it.

That's not a plot twist. That's predictable, because the Maker's as right now is sufffering from some severe personality problems.

But why can't religion, just for once in a fantasy setting, stay religion?

[Eternal Phoenix]

^
Most likely it will.

[esper]

I hope so. I like that with Thedas.

[Silfren]

Giltspur wrote...

So this is what I can find on Inquisitors in Dragon Age lore:

http://dragonage.wik...Nevarran_Accord

But that's the old group.  They probably inspire the new group.  Bringing back an old name when the current order starts to fall apart.  So the Chantry has faced a calamity, and this group is investigating who's at the root of it. The answer may not be as simple as "mages".  If there is a new Inquisition, I hope they can have mages as members.  If their guiding principle is to find "terror" then it seems believable some mages might be motivated to do that.  Since there's no set lore on a group that hasn't actually been introduced, we can't really rule it out, can we?

I don't really see mages freely being a part of the Inquisition, given how paranoid and anti-magic such individuals would be, although there of course is always the possibility for the occasional nutjob or undercover spy situation.  But I could definitely see the Inquisitors taking a page from the Qunaris' book and having mage "pets" as it were.  After all, send a mage to catch a mage, right?  That would be very demoralizing for hunted mages to face.

[brushyourteeth]

esper wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I don't see the devs ever confirming that he's real, but if they it'll be because he's not at all what we've been expecting. So I wouldn't worry about it.

That's not a plot twist. That's predictable, because the Maker's as right now is sufffering from some severe personality problems.

But why can't religion, just for once in a fantasy setting, stay religion?

I guess if your real-life definition of religion is "some stories and rules about a made-up higher power that isn't based on fact and will never prove to be so" then I can definitely see where having religion in a fantasy setting always turn out to be factual would be annoying.

But for lots of people, real-life religion is based on something real, so it's not that hard to accept a world where a god/gods make their existence known.

Anyway, in Dragon Age even without the deities DG has made up, we'd still have "magic" to blame for everything supernatural, in which case "magic" would end up basically playing the part of god. There's not really any avoiding it. 

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EJ107 wrote...

I
like how "inquisitor" is vague enough to imply we might be able to play as one of the other races this time, if any of this is true, although I struggle to see how a dwarf would get involved in a chantry matter.

Get mages to fight the Darkspawn, try and play both sides for the lyrium trade so as to increase Orzammar's profits, be blackmailed into assisting, be a mercenary, etc.

But that works more for the Seeker group under Justinia V then it does an anti-Chantry group such as the New Inquisition. At least, until I find out more about this idea the thread is discussing.

Silfren wrote...

There's a ton of rich, compelling material for a many-sided conflict sooo much more complex than just having one pro, one con, and one neutral side. 

Perhaps, but I doubt Bioware will follow through with such a concept, considering how they couldn't even handle DAII's and MotA's viewpoints and concepts.

I could see a dwarf like the Chantry convert you meet in Orzammar being part of the Inquisition.  His existence is proof enough that surface dwarves are potential Chantry adherents just as are elves that live within human cities.  Any one of them with sufficient indoctrination could be zealous enough to be an Inquisitor.  That would actually be an interesting role to play. 

TEWR, Oh, I have no illusions about Bioware giving us a realistically complex conflict.  I HOPE they at least make the attempt, but even without the issues of DA2, I get that a video game, like a movie, has limitations in how much complexity it can offer before the story gets bogged down.  But hey, a gal can dream, can't she?  I'd be happy if Bioware just gave us two or three options beyond the three obvious ones.  Even if we only got to "see" it through dialogue, a couple throwaway quests, and some codices.  I can forgive not being able to make everything front-and-center, so background info would be fine.  I actually find myself very hopeful for DA3.  In any event, I wouldn't mind playing an Inquisitor.  Just as with Seekers, I see potential for something other than a zealot.  Someone undercover?  Some complex political espionage being masterminded by Empress Celene or someone else playing the Grand Game?  Then again maybe I'm a tad too hopeful for a deliciously complex and highly involved plot.

Modifié par Silfren, 15 août 2012 - 08:48 .

[brushyourteeth]

Silfren wrote...

Giltspur wrote...

So this is what I can find on Inquisitors in Dragon Age lore:

http://dragonage.wik...Nevarran_Accord

But that's the old group.  They probably inspire the new group.  Bringing back an old name when the current order starts to fall apart.  So the Chantry has faced a calamity, and this group is investigating who's at the root of it. The answer may not be as simple as "mages".  If there is a new Inquisition, I hope they can have mages as members.  If their guiding principle is to find "terror" then it seems believable some mages might be motivated to do that.  Since there's no set lore on a group that hasn't actually been introduced, we can't really rule it out, can we?

I don't really see mages freely being a part of the Inquisition, given how paranoid and anti-magic such individuals would be, although there of course is always the possibility for the occasional nutjob or undercover spy situation.  But I could definitely see the Inquisitors taking a page from the Qunaris' book and having mage "pets" as it were.  After all, send a mage to catch a mage, right?  That would be very demoralizing for hunted mages to face.

Since the point of the first Inquisition was to hunt down blood mages, abominations, and people who just had weird and morally iffy practices (like the dragon cult in Haven), I could easily see someone like Regalyan from Dawn of the Seeker or even Wynne joining in. So there have to be more mages out there who'd be interested in finding the bad and killing it, maybe even especially to show the world that magic is a gift from the Maker and not something every single mage should be locked up for.

[meanieweenie]

I have it on good authority that the companion 'survey' is a key mapper. Don't fill it out.

[drake heath]

They could easily have mages willingly join the Inquisition, mages that fervently believed that mages needed to be controlled.

Kinda like how in 40k there's psyker  Inquisitors, but they also hunt down psykers and what not.

Modifié par drake heath, 15 août 2012 - 08:47 .

[Apollo Starflare]

When I saw the previous thread my gut feeling was that there was at least a heady dose of truth in this. I think we can stamp a big ole 'subject to change' marker on it all, but it certainly seems to give us a broad outline of what to expect.

Frankly I think it sounds like an exciting direction to take the franchise, and yet in keeping with what we should be expecting at this point. If all that proves to be accurate and makes the final cut then we should see continuations of both the Ferelden and Kirkwall events, as well as getting plenty of new stuff. Very pleased to see Asunder tie ins too, despite being a fan of Mr Gaider's writing I must admit to being surprised just how much I enjoyed reading that.

The most negative thing I have to say about all this, is that it's a real shame if this is how such major info on DA3 emerges. It's going to put extra pressure on the marketing team to really hit the ball out of the park with the announcement too. If there is truth to all this it would be great to see an official post on the matter that goes beyond 'we don't comment on rumours' etc.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

meanieweenie wrote...

I have it on good authority that the companion 'survey' is a key mapper. Don't fill it out.

Right.

[Milan92]

Nobody expects the Orlesian Inquisition! 

Modifié par Milan92, 15 août 2012 - 08:54 .

[esper]

brushyourteeth wrote...

esper wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I don't see the devs ever confirming that he's real, but if they it'll be because he's not at all what we've been expecting. So I wouldn't worry about it.

That's not a plot twist. That's predictable, because the Maker's as right now is sufffering from some severe personality problems.

But why can't religion, just for once in a fantasy setting, stay religion?

I guess if your real-life definition of religion is "some stories and rules about a made-up higher power that isn't based on fact and will never prove to be so" then I can definitely see where having religion in a fantasy setting always turn out to be factual would be annoying.

But for lots of people, real-life religion is based on something real, so it's not that hard to accept a world where a god/gods make their existence known.

Anyway, in Dragon Age even without the deities DG has made up, we'd still have "magic" to blame for everything supernatural, in which case "magic" would end up basically playing the part of god. There's not really any avoiding it. 

In real life we are not ever going to meet our gods on this side of life. In a physical form.

That happens more time than not in fantasy settings and those gods tends to be very human or complete eldrich abormination. Either way the moment a god provable exist it stops being a question of faith and instead becomes a question of how rebellious the characters are.

I do not wish to see even a hint of the Maker, the dalish gods and who know what else they can think up. (Demon who thinks they are gods doesn't count, and Archdemons doesn't count either because we don't know what it are).
 
I want religion in a fantasy setting to be a question of faith, not a question of do you dare to cross the omnipotent being who is standing right there.

It is not a question of a world where gods maker there existence provable known - if they do that, it is no longer a question of faith.It is a question of authority and praying. 
And besides it happens in 8 out of 10 fantasy settings, I just hope that Thedas does not cross that line. 

[esper]

drake heath wrote...

They could easily have mages willingly join the Inquisition, mages that fervently believed that mages needed to be controlled.

Kinda like how in 40k there's psyker  Inquisitors, but they also hunt down psykers and what not.

yeah, but many who play mages are not interested in playing such a mage.

[thats1evildude]

As this series kicked off with you sticking a big old sword in a big Old God's head, I would say any whinging about how the gods should stay immaterial in Dragon Age is moot by this point.

[brushyourteeth]

esper wrote...

In real life we are not ever going to meet our gods on this side of life. In a physical form.

That happens more time than not in fantasy settings and those gods tends to be very human or complete eldrich abormination. Either way the moment a god provable exist it stops being a question of faith and instead becomes a question of how rebellious the characters are.

I do not wish to see even a hint of the Maker, the dalish gods and who know what else they can think up. (Demon who thinks they are gods doesn't count, and Archdemons doesn't count either because we don't know what it are).
 
I want religion in a fantasy setting to be a question of faith, not a question of do you dare to cross the omnipotent being who is standing right there.

It is not a question of a world where gods maker there existence provable known - if they do that, it is no longer a question of faith.It is a question of authority and praying. 
And besides it happens in 8 out of 10 fantasy settings, I just hope that Thedas does not cross that line. 

I can understand that viewpoint.

[Silfren]

drake heath wrote...

They could easily have mages willingly join the Inquisition, mages that fervently believed that mages needed to be controlled.

Kinda like how in 40k there's psyker  Inquisitors, but they also hunt down psykers and what not.

I was actually referring to distrust and paranoia of magic on the part of the Inquisitors, not mages wanting to join.  Seems to me it would be very, very close to impossible for any mages who joined up not to eventually find themselves on the bad side of an especially paranoid Inquisitor.  If the Inquisition is meant to at all parallel the one from the real world, then paranoia will be the rule of the day.  We already saw how Meredith even took to believing her own templars controlled by blood magic, after all.  

[esper]

thats1evildude wrote...

As this series kicked off with you sticking a big old sword in a big Old God's head, I would say any whinging about how the gods should stay immaterial in Dragon Age is moot by this point.

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.
Old gods are big dragons that have some magical powers. The Tevinter revered them so there is a good chance they were/are sentinent at one point. and could communicate with them.
But they are not a god in the sense we think of when we think god.
I can easily compare them to titans... powerfull, archaic, chaotic beings, that were at one point revered for power they gave, but actual deities... no. 
Old god, is just a name. What they are precisely we don't know, but I am waging a guess and saying that they proberly have something to do with dragons and I guess they are immortal.

[Silfren]

esper wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

As this series kicked off with you sticking a big old sword in a big Old God's head, I would say any whinging about how the gods should stay immaterial in Dragon Age is moot by this point.

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.
Old gods are big dragons that have some magical powers. The Tevinter revered them so there is a good chance they were/are sentinent at one point. and could communicate with them.
But they are not a god in the sense we think of when we think god.
I can easily compare them to titans... powerfull, archaic, chaotic beings, that were at one point revered for power they gave, but actual deities... no. 
Old god, is just a name. What they are precisely we don't know, but I am waging a guess and saying that they proberly have something to do with dragons and I guess they are immortal.

Firstly, what's with the silliness in playing with terms?  "Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity"?  Um.  Well, yes, if they are gods, then they ARE deities, as that's what a god is.

Going further, to be honest, you can't incontrovertibly claim that they are not "really" Gods.  The Old Gods may very well BE actual, sure-nuff Gods, in your sense of the term, and they are indeed considered to have been Gods in the "sense" of deities by the Tevinters of old.  The plain fact is that we don't know yet just exactly WHAT they are.  It's as fallacious to claim they are not Gods as to insist that they definitely, irrefutably, are.

[brushyourteeth]

Filament wrote...

I dunno about that, was the Dumat shrine just trickery then? It seems as up-in-the-air as the Sacred Ashes, etc.

Dumat's dead, right? Remember that theory about the ashes of Andraste being powered by all the lyrium in the mountain? I'd imagine the same rule applies to that lost thaig, if it applies at all.

[Silfren]

Filament wrote...

I dunno about that, was the Dumat shrine just trickery then? It seems as up-in-the-air as the Sacred Ashes, etc.

I maintain that something responded to a Hawke who left an offering, but it doesn't have to have been Dumat.  Personally I think it was Flemeth, 'cuz she just felt like screwing with Hawke.  

Modifié par Silfren, 15 août 2012 - 09:09 .

[esper]

Filament wrote...

I dunno about that, was the Dumat shrine just trickery then? It seems as up-in-the-air as the Sacred Ashes, etc.

There was demon in the shrine if you defiled it, so yes it is exactly like the sacred ashes, which is one of the magical thing about Thedas.
Faith is about believing in something.

(That said, I am sure the old gods have magical powers,)

[drake heath]

Silfren wrote...
I was actually referring to distrust and paranoia of magic on the part of the Inquisitors, not mages wanting to join.  Seems to me it would be very, very close to impossible for any mages who joined up not to eventually find themselves on the bad side of an especially paranoid Inquisitor.  If the Inquisition is meant to at all parallel the one from the real world, then paranoia will be the rule of the day.  We already saw how Meredith even took to believing her own templars controlled by blood magic, after all.  

The Imperial Inquisition's the same way, worst actually, but they still use magic, ally with aliens, etc.

A mage Inquisitor can be brain washed, or think that their way is the right way. 
Most Inquisitors would probably be crazy to some extent, but I would say they'd be as paranoid as Meredith or someone.

[thats1evildude]

esper wrote...

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.

I don't know what definition of deity you're following, but in my mind, the Old Gods were just that: gods. They had massive followings, showed immense power beyond any other mortal being, and bestowed miracles upon their followers in exchange for their worship.

They could be killed, but Kratos spent three God of War games showing us that even deities can die if you yank their heads off.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 15 août 2012 - 09:13 .