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[thats1evildude]

There are fewer dialogues in DA2 where you run up to a character and say "Hey, I want to talk to you about XXX." That said, there are still quite a few dialogues with companions. And what's more, each companion has one personal quest per chapter. In DAO, you more or less just ran into a character and said "Hey, do you want to come to the Emerald City with us?" and went skipping down the Yellow Brick Road.

In other words, the amount of personal interaction between DAO and DA2 is about equal.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 12:03 .

[ElitePinecone]

^ That might be true, but I felt like we learnt more about Origins' characters from its conversations, and it seemed like there was more depth there in terms of dialogue branching and topics covered.

Even if the amount of lines is roughly the same, something about Origins was more memorable - perhaps it was the campfire, or talking to companions at any time.

[Cutlasskiwi]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Party banter is great, but it's just shallow fun. It doesn't flesh out characters, it's just amusing. I'm talking about actual conversations between the PC and the companions.

I disagree. I think the banter did flesh out the characters. Having both Carver and Merrill or Isabela and Aveline, for example, in the party at the same time did much to explore their relationships. And their banter changed over the years as their relationships grew.

[Dagr88]

BrotherWarth wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

There are fewer dialogues in DA2 where you run up to a character and say "Hey, I want to talk to you about XXX." That said, there are still quite a few dialogues with companions. And what's more, each companion has one personal quest per chapter. In DAO, you more or less just ran into a character and said "Hey, do you want to come to the Emerald City with us?" and went skipping down the Yellow Brick Road.

In other words, the amount of personal interaction between DAO and DA2 is about equal.

A lot of the personal quests do nothing to flech out characters character. Pretty much all of the personal quests in DA2 left me wanting more interaction with the character they center around.

There were also gift conversations. (In DA:O, DA:A and DA2)

And in DA:O non of the characters joined you for "do you want to come along" reason. They joined you because:
- Had nowhere to go (no memories Shale; no soul Sten)
- Your quest is their quest (Alistair is GW; Morrigan for Dark Ritual; Leliana - vision or atleast she thinks thats her reason; Wynne realizes how dangerous Blight is)
- They belong to you (Zevran - pledge of loyalty; Dog...)
- Just a drunken dwarven warrior with an axe (Oghren)

Actually that's is the reason why we didn't see non of them as DA2 companion. By the end of DA:O they had their own life/purpose/coffin and giving that all away just because they met guy/gal named Hawke in some backwater city who has a camera behind his/her head wouldn't be such a good idea.

Modifié par Dagr88, 11 septembre 2012 - 09:36 .

[Rylor Tormtor]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Party banter is great, but it's just shallow fun. It doesn't flesh out characters, it's just amusing. I'm talking about actual conversations between the PC and the companions.

I disagree. I think the banter did flesh out the characters. Having both Carver and Merrill or Isabela and Aveline, for example, in the party at the same time did much to explore their relationships. And their banter changed over the years as their relationships grew.

But again, as the PC, you were merely an observer to this and couldn't actually interact. In the banter between Merril and Fenris during act 2 there were times my PC mage, who wasn't even romancing Merril, would have thrown Fenris up against a wall. In addition, these interactions were almost completely binary. Having Anders or Isabella in the party with Fenris and Merril niether of them would ever come to her defence, when it was made clear that Isabella is protective of Merril and Anders would have defended against Fenris' stereotype attacks. For me at least, it felt like a token attempt. 

[Blackrising]

I like banter and I think it's a fun way to find out more about the character, but...well, it's so easy to miss. If you're like me and can't help but always take the same three characters with you (Varric is my best bro, I have to take him with me! Isabela is awesome, she needs to come with me! I CAN'T LEAVE MERRILL IN THAT DINGY HOUSE IN THE ALIENAGE!) you're bound to miss most of it. I also never take Isabela and Fenris out at the same time, since I don't want them to hook up. (Yes, it's because I don't want Fenris to be happy. I'm vicious like that.)

[thats1evildude]

ElitePinecone wrote...

^ That might be true, but I felt like we learnt more about Origins' characters from its conversations, and it seemed like there was more depth there in terms of dialogue branching and topics covered.

I found quite a few of the conversations in DAO were simply about various worldly topics and not about the characters themselves. "Hey, Alistair, how do templars get their abilities?" "Hey, Morrigan, tell me more about Flemeth." "Hey, Sten, why are all qunari such big f***ing killjoys?" This was all well in fine in a game that was introducing us to the Dragon Age universe, but in a sequel where I'm already conscious of most of the lore, it's just unnecessary exposition.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 04:59 .

[The dead fish]

thats1evildude wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

^ That might be true, but I felt like we learnt more about Origins' characters from its conversations, and it seemed like there was more depth there in terms of dialogue branching and topics covered.

I found quite a few of the conversations in DAO were simply about various worldly topics and not about the characters themselves. "Hey, Alistair, how do templars get their abilities?" "Hey, Morrigan, tell me more about Flemeth." "Hey, Sten, why are all qunari such big f***ing killjoys?" This was all well in fine in a game that was introducing us to the Dragon Age universe, but in a sequel where I'm already conscious of most of the lore, it's just unnecessary exposition.

:huh:

Did you ever talk seriously to your companions ? Or are you just kidding ? There is far more than that. Your learn about the world, personal quests with their personal story, anecdote, details about their lives, what they think, what they miss, what they regret, their past, what they like / dislike, some discussions very serious and other just fun.

And even when for example Sten is talking about the Qunari, you learn about his vision, how he sees your warden and humans, how he thinks. So that's not true.

Really I think there are many guys here who need to replay DAO, It seems quite a lot of you have forgotten what happened in the game.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:35 .

[thats1evildude]

But I already know the lore. That supercedes any insights I may gain into each character from tidbits of world-building exposition.

[The dead fish]

I don't understand. What did you need in DAO you didn't find ? You learn about the characters themself as much as you learn about the lore...  ( if you keep talking to your companions as well )

With Anders, the only thing personal you learn is that he misses his cat, otherwise, it is always about mages, justice, mages, justice, mages.

Try Wynn again and you'll see how it is different. You talk about everything with her. And the same with pretty much every companion in DAO.

And that's why many folks felt DAII conversations lost depth compared to DAO.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 septembre 2012 - 05:57 .

[thats1evildude]

Sylvianus wrote...

Did you ever talk seriously to your companions ? Or are you just kidding ? There is far more than that. Your learn about the world, personal quests with their personal story, anecdote, details about their lives, what they think.

Jesus, I feel like I've spent half my life talking to companions in both games. At the end of DAO, I'd run out of things to talk about without picking options that were either pointlessly antagonistic or contradictory to our established relationship. There were conversations I felt were missing in both games.

BrotherWarth wrote...

You don't know all of the lore. There's an entire continent of lore to be explored. Every nation in Thedas has tons of lore, every age having its own historic events, every cultural/religious group has its own customs and history, etc.

I ask about things I don't know about. I quizzed Fenris pretty extensively about the Tevinter Imperium, for example. But I didn't need to ask Merrill about how the elves got oppressed or Varric about the caste system in Orzammar because I already know this stuff. That's also why I just skimmed Codexes in DA2 that hadn't changed from DAO.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[The dead fish]

thats1evildude wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Did you ever talk seriously to your companions ? Or are you just kidding ? There is far more than that. Your learn about the world, personal quests with their personal story, anecdote, details about their lives, what they think.

Jesus, I feel like I've spent half my life talking to companions in both games. At the end of DAO, I'd run out of things to talk about without picking options that were either pointlessly antagonistic or contradictory to our established relationship.

So Wynn for example didn't talk at all about her past with you, she didn't talk about her mistakes with her first apprentice, her experience with the spirit, the chantry, how she was found by the templars, her experience with the circle ? etc etc

Morrigan didn't tell you anything about her childhood ? Leliana ? Zevran ? Oghren ?

The only one I could agree with you is Sten at the very least. But otherwise, nope, I don't understand.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .

[thats1evildude]

Sylvianus wrote...

So Wynn for example didn't talk at all about her past with you, she didn't talk about her mistakes with her first apprentice, her experience with the spirit, the chantry, how she was found by the templars, her experience with the circle ? etc etc

Been there, done that, have the postcards to prove it. I heard about how Wynne was hauled off to the Circle, how she became infused with the Spirit of Faith while saving one of her students and how she unintentionally drove off one of her early pupils. Hell, I took her to see him. I can also tell you about Morrigan's broken mirror, how Leliana's mother kept Andraste's Grace in her closet, how Alistair was taken to the templar order and so forth.

Sten is the most difficult companion to talk to because much of his dialogue only arises when you bring him to a location and hear him spout off about the Qun or Tal-Vashoth or why children are being allowed to run through the streets and not being brainwashed at the nearest temple.

The only companion I didn't spend much time getting to know in DAO was Oghren, because I came into the series a while after release, had heard he was in Awakening and had also heard about the approval bugs. So I only got Oghren's approval high enough to get his companion quest.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:16 .

[thats1evildude]

No, it's because I ran through most of the dialogues in DAO that I know quite a few of them were simply exposition about the world.

I did all that and I STILL feel that I knew the companions in DA2 as well as those in DAO.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:14 .

[The dead fish]

So when a character talk to you about his past, his personal experience, his life, etc etc, it is just exposition about the world. Nothing to do with the character.
Yeah, that makes sense.

[thats1evildude]

Yeah, that's a completely accurate representation of what I'm saying.

Quit trying to move the goddamn goalposts, Sylvianus. I can tell the difference between character development and exposition.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:42 .

[The dead fish]

No, you don't, obviously. That's what I wanted to find out. Now I know and I don't need to post any more x).

With a character development, you can know accurately why characters are what they are, how, which is pretty much the case for every companion in DAO thanks precisely to their personal stories, their anecdotes, their experience told to you, fun details, their thoughts, and everything they talk about in this game that isn't just exposition to the lore.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 11 septembre 2012 - 06:56 .

[thats1evildude]

Sylvianus wrote...

No, you don't, obviously. That's what I wanted to find out. Now I know and I don't need to post any more x).

With a character development, you can know accurately why characters are what they are, how, which is pretty much the case for every companion in DAO thanks precisely to their personal stories, their anecdotes, their experience told to you, fun details, their thoughts, and everything they talk about in this game that isn't just exposition to the lore.

I knew all of that about the characters in DA2. The approach to character development was simply different than in DAO.

But you go swooping off. You haven't changed my mind or proved me wrong.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 septembre 2012 - 07:04 .

[Cynarra]

I adore DAO. Just finished playing my 4th character and adding mods for the first time. I am hoping the 3rd version of the game has the relationship and banter features of the first. It was really interesting to hear about cutscenes they left out of the game due to time and budget contraints. I would love to see them expand on those things in the next version.

Funny, my family and friends that know me, know my play style, and have played DA2 have all advised me against even purchasing it. They were all very dissatisfied with how it was changed to be more "console" like and the continious clicking on a PC game was another complaint. Hearing it was like Mass Effect was another reason I was uninterested in playing it. My play style is a definite mesh with DAO.

Hopefully they can take the good things in both games and make something even better.

[zyntifox]

Cynarra wrote...

I adore DAO. Just finished playing my 4th character and adding mods for the first time. I am hoping the 3rd version of the game has the relationship and banter features of the first. It was really interesting to hear about cutscenes they left out of the game due to time and budget contraints. I would love to see them expand on those things in the next version.

Funny, my family and friends that know me, know my play style, and have played DA2 have all advised me against even purchasing it. They were all very dissatisfied with how it was changed to be more "console" like and the continious clicking on a PC game was another complaint. Hearing it was like Mass Effect was another reason I was uninterested in playing it. My play style is a definite mesh with DAO.

Hopefully they can take the good things in both games and make something even better.

Yeah, DA2 have more in common with Mass Effect than DA:O unfortunatly.

[Renmiri1]

Sylvianus wrote...
** snip **

With Anders, the only thing personal you learn is that he misses his cat, otherwise, it is always about mages, justice, mages, justice, mages.

Try Wynn again and you'll see how it is different. You talk about everything with her. And the same with pretty much every companion in DAO.

And that's why many folks felt DAII conversations lost depth compared to DAO.

So you never saw that Anders had a hand embroidered pillow given to him by his mother ? That Justice didn't allow him to drink anymore ? That he kissed an ogre while drunk on the Deep Roads ? The he can do a pretty neat naughty trick with electricity that amazed people at the Pearl in Denerin ? That his favorite cat breed is tabby ? That he has had dreams about a naked Grand Cleric and a giant cheesewheel ?

Did you ever find out Merril loves "dirty talk" ? That she loves Isabela's stories ? That she gets lost all the time ? That she visits the Viscount's keep thinking it's an open area ? That she saw someone getting mugged right in front of her house ? That the otehr Dalish elves always kept her at a distance because she was "First" ? That she never had any friends ?

I could go on and on for each character in DA2. They have a rich and nuanced past and personality. You just have to dig more, it isn't as simple as "click to talk".