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[esper]

Silfren wrote...

esper wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

As this series kicked off with you sticking a big old sword in a big Old God's head, I would say any whinging about how the gods should stay immaterial in Dragon Age is moot by this point.

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.
Old gods are big dragons that have some magical powers. The Tevinter revered them so there is a good chance they were/are sentinent at one point. and could communicate with them.
But they are not a god in the sense we think of when we think god.
I can easily compare them to titans... powerfull, archaic, chaotic beings, that were at one point revered for power they gave, but actual deities... no. 
Old god, is just a name. What they are precisely we don't know, but I am waging a guess and saying that they proberly have something to do with dragons and I guess they are immortal.

Firstly, what's with the silliness in playing with terms?  "Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity"?  Um.  Well, yes, if they are gods, then they ARE deities, as that's what a god is.

Going further, to be honest, you can't incontrovertibly claim that they are not "really" Gods.  The Old Gods may very well BE actual, sure-nuff Gods, in your sense of the term, and they are indeed considered to have been Gods in the "sense" of deities by the Tevinters of old.  The plain fact is that we don't know yet just exactly WHAT they are.  It's as fallacious to claim they are not Gods as to insist that they definitely, irrefutably, are.

My whole point is that Old Gods are a name. Nothing more. If they are a god, monster, the source of all the dragons or perhaps the lid that keeps them away (after all there gets less old gods and more dragons) we don't know.

People have in real life  and Thedas have revered sillier things than magical beings who was willing to give them powers. We don't know if they are gods and monsters, it is improveable, and thus a matter of faith.

But the Maker suddenly physically appearing would make the whole faith thing out of the question.

Anyway, I am getting a little tired to debate well it seems.

[Henioo]

Old Gods are demons who possesed bodies of High Dragons. Demons love to be worshipped and thus they become gods to the Tevinters.

[Silfren]

esper wrote...

Silfren wrote...

esper wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

As this series kicked off with you sticking a big old sword in a big Old God's head, I would say any whinging about how the gods should stay immaterial in Dragon Age is moot by this point.

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.
Old gods are big dragons that have some magical powers. The Tevinter revered them so there is a good chance they were/are sentinent at one point. and could communicate with them.
But they are not a god in the sense we think of when we think god.
I can easily compare them to titans... powerfull, archaic, chaotic beings, that were at one point revered for power they gave, but actual deities... no. 
Old god, is just a name. What they are precisely we don't know, but I am waging a guess and saying that they proberly have something to do with dragons and I guess they are immortal.

Firstly, what's with the silliness in playing with terms?  "Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity"?  Um.  Well, yes, if they are gods, then they ARE deities, as that's what a god is.

Going further, to be honest, you can't incontrovertibly claim that they are not "really" Gods.  The Old Gods may very well BE actual, sure-nuff Gods, in your sense of the term, and they are indeed considered to have been Gods in the "sense" of deities by the Tevinters of old.  The plain fact is that we don't know yet just exactly WHAT they are.  It's as fallacious to claim they are not Gods as to insist that they definitely, irrefutably, are.

My whole point is that Old Gods are a name. Nothing more. If they are a god, monster, the source of all the dragons or perhaps the lid that keeps them away (after all there gets less old gods and more dragons) we don't know.

People have in real life  and Thedas have revered sillier things than magical beings who was willing to give them powers. We don't know if they are gods and monsters, it is improveable, and thus a matter of faith.

But the Maker suddenly physically appearing would make the whole faith thing out of the question.

Anyway, I am getting a little tired to debate well it seems.

My own point is that you plainly stated that the Old Gods are not "really" Gods in the sense of being deities, and you don't know that to be true.

[esper]

thats1evildude wrote...

esper wrote...

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.

I don't know what definition of deity you're following, but in my mind, the Old Gods were just that: gods. They had massive followings, showed immense power beyond any other mortal being, and bestowed miracles upon their followers in exchange for their worship.

They could be killed, but Kratos spent three God of War games showing us that even deities can die if you yank their heads off.

I am following the defintion of being tired and thus accidently mering two thoughts at once before finish writing the first.

In a way the Titans were gods, the certainly created the world through some... Yes, let's not finsih that description, I am not sure the word I would have to use would actually be allowed here. And kratos killing the gods = absolutely not how the stories went.

But when I make the Titan comparision I simply meant, ancient, locked away, eternal and part of the world, but not necessarily a real god. The Eqyptians reverded their Pharoes at some point. I am sure that most of us today would say that the Pharos still were ordinary humans with no creative or destructive power that any human with an army and a country at their beck and call didn't have. It think it was the same with Tevinter, the old gods offered the magister powers of some form. The revered them for that power, perhaps they even believed them to be gods. But that still doesn't mean they were/are anything, but magical dragons of some sort. Remember we don't actually know what dragons really are, we don't know what the taint are.

[esper]

Henioo wrote...

Old Gods are demons who possesed bodies of High Dragons. Demons love to be worshipped and thus they become gods to the Tevinters.

That could certainly be, but I prefer to think they are the dragon equivelent of mages...

[Earthborn_Shepard]

Glad to see this developed into a religious discussion

[esper]

Silfren wrote...

esper wrote...

Silfren wrote...

esper wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

As this series kicked off with you sticking a big old sword in a big Old God's head, I would say any whinging about how the gods should stay immaterial in Dragon Age is moot by this point.

Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity.
Old gods are big dragons that have some magical powers. The Tevinter revered them so there is a good chance they were/are sentinent at one point. and could communicate with them.
But they are not a god in the sense we think of when we think god.
I can easily compare them to titans... powerfull, archaic, chaotic beings, that were at one point revered for power they gave, but actual deities... no. 
Old god, is just a name. What they are precisely we don't know, but I am waging a guess and saying that they proberly have something to do with dragons and I guess they are immortal.

Firstly, what's with the silliness in playing with terms?  "Old gods are not gods in the sense of a deity"?  Um.  Well, yes, if they are gods, then they ARE deities, as that's what a god is.

Going further, to be honest, you can't incontrovertibly claim that they are not "really" Gods.  The Old Gods may very well BE actual, sure-nuff Gods, in your sense of the term, and they are indeed considered to have been Gods in the "sense" of deities by the Tevinters of old.  The plain fact is that we don't know yet just exactly WHAT they are.  It's as fallacious to claim they are not Gods as to insist that they definitely, irrefutably, are.

My whole point is that Old Gods are a name. Nothing more. If they are a god, monster, the source of all the dragons or perhaps the lid that keeps them away (after all there gets less old gods and more dragons) we don't know.

People have in real life  and Thedas have revered sillier things than magical beings who was willing to give them powers. We don't know if they are gods and monsters, it is improveable, and thus a matter of faith.

But the Maker suddenly physically appearing would make the whole faith thing out of the question.

Anyway, I am getting a little tired to debate well it seems.

My own point is that you plainly stated that the Old Gods are not "really" Gods in the sense of being deities, and you don't know that to be true.

Yes, and I claritfied what a meant. God and deity of course means the same thing, I am simply being tired.
But I doubt the old gods were anymore actual gods than any human who have claimed that titel over the course of our history.

[LolaLei]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Glad to see this developed into a religious discussion

Lol, doesn't it always?

Guess we need more info to talk about.

[esper]

LolaLei wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Glad to see this developed into a religious discussion

Lol, doesn't it always?

Guess we need more info to talk about.

We are not in no way discussing real world religion here.

[LolaLei]

esper wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Glad to see this developed into a religious discussion

Lol, doesn't it always?

Guess we need more info to talk about.

We are not in no way discussing real world religion here.

I didn't say you was. 

[esper]

BrotherWarth wrote...

esper wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Glad to see this developed into a religious discussion

Lol, doesn't it always?

Guess we need more info to talk about.

We are not in no way discussing real world religion here.

Religion is central to the DA games. Nothing wrong with discussing the ins and outs of the various religions of the DA world.

Henioo wrote...

Old Gods are demons who possesed bodies of
High Dragons. Demons love to be worshipped and thus they become gods to
the Tevinters.

Seems unlikely. Why wouldn't that keep happening if demons could do that?

Not that I believe the theory, but the obvious answer would be, the same reason not all mages are possed, coupled with the fact that dragons were extinct.

[Henioo]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Henioo wrote...

Old Gods are demons who possesed bodies of
High Dragons. Demons love to be worshipped and thus they become gods to
the Tevinters.

Seems unlikely. Why wouldn't that keep happening if demons could do that?

Because these were more powerful demons. You know, like, archdemons.

See where I'm going with this? 

Modifié par Henioo, 15 août 2012 - 09:44 .

[esper]

Henioo wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Henioo wrote...

Old Gods are demons who possesed bodies of
High Dragons. Demons love to be worshipped and thus they become gods to
the Tevinters.

Seems unlikely. Why wouldn't that keep happening if demons could do that?

Because these were more powerful demons. You know, like, archdemons.

See where I'm going with this? 

Since we are getting out in wild theories land how about this:
The acient Arlanthan elves bound demons to high dragons in order to control the Fade, but the high-dragon's aborminations wanted to be more than just pet and told the humans that if they did this small little favour of completly eradicating the elves they would give them more powers. The humans was more than willing to comply and over time the dragon-abormination begun to convince the humans that they should worhship them.

Nods... yep, that sound perfectly silly 

[esper]

BrotherWarth wrote...

esper wrote...

Not that I believe the theory, but the obvious answer would be, the same reason not all mages are possed, coupled with the fact that dragons were extinct.

Dragons weren't extinct, just near extinction. This ain't Skyrim.

Henioo wrote...

Because these were more powerful demons. You know, like, archdemons.

See where I'm going with this? 

The Archdemon isn't really a demon. Not in the same sense as a desire demon or a pride demon and what have you. Archdemons are Old Gods tainted by Darkspawn and they can only take over Darkspawn hosts when their dragon bodies are destroyed.

Honestly, I think that Old Gods are some immortal beings that have a connection with the fade (the whole singing thing screams of lyrium and they do live underground)

[Henioo]

BrotherWarth wrote...
The Archdemon isn't really a demon. Not in the same sense as a desire demon or a pride demon and what have you. Archdemons are Old Gods tainted by Darkspawn and they can only take over Darkspawn hosts when their dragon bodies are destroyed.

Yeah, cool, cool. But we don't seem to understand each other.

I said archdemons, not Archdemons, with a capital A. Arch, as in highest.

And I think there must be a reason why tainted Old Gods are refered to as ArchDEMONS, too. And I simply think that they were demons all along, but they got tainted and thus stuck in the bodies they possesed.

Anyway, that is just my theory. I'm not saying I am right and everyone one else is wrong. I could very well be wrong. 

P.S. Off Topic-like, same thing happened to the Black Smoke in Lost. It could posses bodies and appear as smoke, but when it had the god killed, it got stuck in the body it was in at the time and when that body died, it died too.

EDIT:

esper wrote...
Since we are getting out in wild theories land how about this:
The
acient Arlanthan elves bound demons to high dragons in order to control
the Fade, but the high-dragon's aborminations wanted to be more than
just pet and told the humans that if they did this small little favour
of completly eradicating the elves they would give them more powers. The
humans was more than willing to comply and over time the
dragon-abormination begun to convince the humans that they should
worhship them.

Nods... yep, that sound perfectly silly 

You might be onto something here. I think the elves of Arlathan were all blood mages because they were immortal.

I think there is a connection to the elven beliefs and the Andrastian Chantry's. Fen'Harel is the Maker, and the elven gods were what the Tevinters called Old Gods.

Modifié par Henioo, 15 août 2012 - 09:58 .

[esper]

Henioo wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...
The Archdemon isn't really a demon. Not in the same sense as a desire demon or a pride demon and what have you. Archdemons are Old Gods tainted by Darkspawn and they can only take over Darkspawn hosts when their dragon bodies are destroyed.

Yeah, cool, cool. But we don't seem to understand each other.

I said archdemons, not Archdemons, with a capital A. Arch, as in highest.

And I think there must be a reason why tainted Old Gods are refered to as ArchDEMONS, too. And I simply think that they were demons all along, but they got tainted and thus stuck in the bodies they possesed.

Anyway, that is just my theory. I'm not saying I am right and everyone one else is wrong. I could very well be wrong. 

P.S. Off Topic-like, same thing happened to the Black Smoke in Lost. It could posses bodies and appear as smoke, but when it had the god killed, it got stuck in the body it was in at the time and when that body died, it died too.

I think they were high dragons who lived in such a high concentration of lyrium that it made them crazy and immortal, plus gave them demonlike abilites (like possessing bodies).

Seriously, I think lyruim is the root to a lot of things that goes wrong in Thedas, and it is the one thing that the Fade and the Deep Road have in common. (If we really believe the taint came from the fade theory, and not the just the awakneded darkspawn came from the fade theory,). 

[DarthChicken]

Glad to finally get some interesting discussion on the forums, again. So, which one of you two want to spill on those specializations that the survey apparently talked about.
I have cookies...just sayin'.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

One interesting detail is that a customizable mansion seems to be planned, that was mentioned in one of the questions.. like being able to buy decorations for your game house and stuff

Also it was claimed that the story of the game was able to "fill 4 novels" which is a bs statement considering they didn't say how long the novels were...

[esper]

DarthChicken wrote...

Glad to finally get some interesting discussion on the forums, again. So, which one of you two want to spill on those specializations that the survey apparently talked about.
I have cookies...just sayin'.

Ancient Arlthan-Bloodmage-Demom-binder or 'AAbdb' for short.
Now cookie

[Henioo]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

One interesting detail is that a customizable mansion seems to be planned, that was mentioned in one of the questions.. like being able to buy decorations for your game house and stuff

Also it was claimed that the story of the game was able to "fill 4 novels" which is a bs statement considering they didn't say how long the novels were...

How 'bout posting all of it and not piece by piece? 

Anyway, customisation is always welcome. It adds to the replayability. "Hey, I'mma play again, this time my walls are gon' be red, bro! Yeaaaah!"

Modifié par Henioo, 15 août 2012 - 10:16 .

[esper]

Henioo wrote...


EDIT:

esper wrote...
Since we are getting out in wild theories land how about this:
The
acient Arlanthan elves bound demons to high dragons in order to control
the Fade, but the high-dragon's aborminations wanted to be more than
just pet and told the humans that if they did this small little favour
of completly eradicating the elves they would give them more powers. The
humans was more than willing to comply and over time the
dragon-abormination begun to convince the humans that they should
worhship them.

Nods... yep, that sound perfectly silly 

You might be onto something here. I think the elves of Arlathan were all blood mages because they were immortal.

I think there is a connection to the elven beliefs and the Andrastian Chantry's. Fen'Harel is the Maker, and the elven gods were what the Tevinters called Old Gods.

 I do agree with the Arlathan blood-mages theory, it seems logical plus the one elf who was rumoured to have discovered the long livety of the olds were a blood mage or at leas the did blood magic spells.

[LolaLei]

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

One interesting detail is that a customizable mansion seems to be planned, that was mentioned in one of the questions.. like being able to buy decorations for your game house and stuff

Also it was claimed that the story of the game was able to "fill 4 novels" which is a bs statement considering they didn't say how long the novels were...

What did it say about romance and companion interaction?