87 réponses à ce sujet

[ervanol]

The other recruit for the Grey Wardens. It seems he is recruited for his fighting abillities, his excelence as a warrior. He thinks he can serve a good cause and probably sees it as an honour to become part of the ordre of Grey Wardens. He doesn't know that he has to submit himself to a spooky ritual that can kill you.

When he finds out the truth it is too late and Duncan kills him. I think it is a weird story. The guy makes totally sense. I think it would be nice if he could walk away and chooses to fight in the battle of Ostragar. He is one of the few survivors and later in the game you can take him as a companion.

Because of this incident I have second thoughts about the Grey Wardens and want to get rid of it. Together with Alistair you are the only survivors, so why not let Alistair die in some heroic fight and continue your quest as a normal adventurer?

[Original182]

Heh, then Bioware has done their job well. They put the "Grey" in Grey Wardens, literally and figuratively. The Grey Wardens are not knights in shiny armor, they do whatever it takes to stop the Blight, even questionable "grey area" things like blood magic. They're doing that on purpose to emphasize the mature content of the game. Not all things are black and white.

Don't worry too much about it. What Duncan did has no bearing on you. You can always roleplay a Grey Warden that rejects Duncan's methods.

Modifié par Original182, 22 décembre 2009 - 10:53 .

[Arkaelis]

Not sure what Alister dying has to do with anything, but anyway...
Jory freaked and got his sword out. Granted that Daveth had just died a few seconds earlier, but they were told repeatedly that there was no backing out. I'm certainly not condoning Duncan's actions -- I do think that they were a bit drastic, Jory was probably too spooked to be reasoned with by then.
Honestly I felt worse for Daveth than Jory.

Modifié par Arkaelis, 22 décembre 2009 - 12:36 .

[SarEnyaDor]

I felt worse for Daveth, too, I never even got a chance to tumble him...



Jory had to die, he knew the secret of the Joining, to keep a secret, you can't have anyone with knowledge of it outside the circle. Many, many times he was told that joining was a dangerous thing, that you could die, that becomming a Grey Warden meant leaving behind your old life completely.



It is not Duncan's fault Jory was too stupid to believe what he had been repeatedly told and he thought that he could just go back to his pregnant wife when everything was all done.



I just wish I had Duncan's knife of instant death - his gives better death scenes than mine does.

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

Good Girl. Duncan did what he had to do to preserve the secret. It wasn't pretty, A little shocking, but everyone was warned.

[robertthebard]

Not to mention that Jory was a coward. Any time you have deny something more than once, when nobody has accused you of it, there's a problem.

[JabberJaww]

Jory drew sword first. I did feel bad for him. He had an epic underbite.



I would kill anyone that found out my dark secret and was getting ready to run too.



What would suck even more for Jory would be if Duncan used the right of conscription and got him against his will.

[Sabriana]

Jory was never Grey Warden material from the outset. He saw the whole thing as a glory thing, some sort of round table of noble knights. That was plainly obvious to me on my first play-through, and Duncan should've seen it too and send him home to Helena.



Daveth, on the other hand, was a great character. I was so bummed out when he died.



Jory did draw first, but he backed away. He only lunged forward after Duncan drew as well. I'm guessing that all Jory wanted was to get the heck away from there.



Aside from that, if the PC goes with Loghain (for whatever reasons, I don't wish to start another pro/contra Loghain debate), Alistair quits the Wardens as well. Simply because he feels betrayed by one of its members. What happened to "Serve the Grey Warden, a duty never to be foresworn" oath Alistair recites at the joining?



Jory dies because he tries to leave, Alistair quits in a huff, and doesn't. No fair.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Duncan definitely did not kill Ser Jory in self defense. While Ser Jory did draw his sword first, he was very clearly backing up, and was not seeking a confrontation. He just didn't want to go through with the Joining, and if allowed to leave he probably would have done so. Duncan advanced on him and killed him in cold-blood.

The only possibly valid reason I can see Dunan killing Ser Jory for, is to protect the secret of the Joining. The general public seems to know nothing at all about what is involved, and I assume the Grey Wardens have their reasons for keeping it secret. Perhaps the Grey Wardens fear a post-Blight backlash if people discovered they drank Darkspawn blood in a Dark Ritual, and that they carry the taint of the Darkspawn?

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 22 décembre 2009 - 09:31 .

[SarEnyaDor]

They have their reasons alright - 1.) It is a form of blood-magic. 2.) If everyone knew they were tainted NO ONE would trust them 3.) Secret clubs are cooler than ones open to the public.

[JabberJaww]

Actually, Jory swung first too as Duncan approached.. i mean, yeah, Duncan was going to kill him no matter what, but Jory did make the first swing... unfortunatly being a 2H warrior, the swing was EXTREMEMLY slow.

[Aedan_Cousland]

JabberJaww wrote...

Actually, Jory swung first too as Duncan approached.. i mean, yeah, Duncan was going to kill him no matter what, but Jory did make the first swing... unfortunatly being a 2H warrior, the swing was EXTREMEMLY slow.

Duncan was advancing on him rather aggressively.

If anything Ser Jory was trying to defend himself, not the other way around.

[SarEnyaDor]

Who cares who swung first??



Even if Jory just stood there saying "No, I wilt not partaketh of thoust foul drink!" and did nothing else, he CAN NOT BE ALLOWED to walk away now. He's seen too much, knows things that only a Grey Warden is supposed to know, and cannot be allowed to spread that around.



He had his head in the clouds and IGNORED what was repeatedly told him about what becomming a Grey Warden meant for his life. He abandoned his wife and child in search for glory, despite what he says, that is what he did. Duncan did not conscript him, he walked into it because he wanted to, and then didn't want to play anymore.



Well, no - you can't go home and take your toys.

[Taleroth]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Who cares who swung first??

Even if Jory just stood there saying "No, I wilt not partaketh of thoust foul drink!" and did nothing else, he CAN NOT BE ALLOWED to walk away now. He's seen too much, knows things that only a Grey Warden is supposed to know, and cannot be allowed to spread that around.

I don't see why not.  It'd probably be a marked improvement for the world if Grey Wardens didn't hold a forced monopoly on saving it from Blights.  It's like the only reason they killed Jory was to prevent other people from taking their glory.

[SarEnyaDor]

You, sir, are just the Devil's Advocate.



If anyone else but a grey Warden strikes the killing blow the Archdemon just gets a darkspawny make-over.

[Herr Uhl]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

You, sir, are just the Devil's Advocate.

If anyone else but a grey Warden strikes the killing blow the Archdemon just gets a darkspawny make-over.

But if they dispose of their little club and make it a commonly known thing (how to kill it, ergo joining), just being you and Alastair wouldn't be a problem.

[Taleroth]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

You, sir, are just the Devil's Advocate.

If anyone else but a grey Warden strikes the killing blow the Archdemon just gets a darkspawny make-over.

No, I'm serious.  You just seem to have completely missed my point.

Grey Wardens are an organization.  There's nothing inherently unique about Grey Wardens outside of the monopoly they are forcing by not sharing the ritual.

If the ritual became known by others, Grey Wardens would, as an organization, be completely unnecessary.

[Layn]

its a well done part of the game which still makes me angry.

Daveth was all accepting and died for it. Ser Jory wielded his sword on impulse to defend himseld and could maybe have been talked down but Duncan just killed him. It really marred my image of Duncan.

[SarEnyaDor]

I think I am missing the point, because I was pretty sure that if say Sten had killed the archdemon the soul/essence would just go into the nearest darkspawn and start the whole Blight over agian as soo n as it got more powerful. That the reason the Grey Wardens were necessary was to make the essence go into them, a vessel already filled with a soul, thus obliterating the archdemon's essence preventing the rebirth cycle.



So unless you are planning on making everyone in the army partially tainted, don't you need Grey Wardens still?

[Herr Uhl]

SarEnyaDor wrote...
So unless you are planning on making everyone in the army partially tainted, don't you need Grey Wardens still?

You need GW, but there is scarce need in having them being a secretive club. If the joining was common knowledge, you could have averted the crisis of only having 2 GW in Ferelden, that do not know how to make more. And Loghain would probably be cooler with them too.

[robertthebard]

Taleroth wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

You, sir, are just the Devil's Advocate.

If anyone else but a grey Warden strikes the killing blow the Archdemon just gets a darkspawny make-over.

No, I'm serious.  You just seem to have completely missed my point.

Grey Wardens are an organization.  There's nothing inherently unique about Grey Wardens outside of the monopoly they are forcing by not sharing the ritual.

If the ritual became known by others, Grey Wardens would, as an organization, be completely unnecessary.

No, it wouldn't be unncecessary, there would just be either a whole lot of them, or none.  It's my impression that Jory wouldn't have come if he'd known about the Joining.  It's not a secret to keep everyone from doing it, after all, it's not like the Legion of the Dead, where they have a funeral and can die with honor.  It can kill you, and will kill you eventually, even if you don't die when you do it.  Daveth had the right of it, "Would you have come had you known"?

[Taleroth]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I think I am missing the point, because I was pretty sure that if say Sten had killed the archdemon the soul/essence would just go into the nearest darkspawn and start the whole Blight over agian as soo n as it got more powerful. That the reason the Grey Wardens were necessary was to make the essence go into them, a vessel already filled with a soul, thus obliterating the archdemon's essence preventing the rebirth cycle.

So unless you are planning on making everyone in the army partially tainted, don't you need Grey Wardens still?

You need someone tainted, presumably by the ritual.  You do not need Grey Wardens.  There's no reason to make the entire army undergo the ritual, that's just silly.

[Ashlag]

Taleroth wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

You, sir, are just the Devil's Advocate.

If anyone else but a grey Warden strikes the killing blow the Archdemon just gets a darkspawny make-over.

No, I'm serious.  You just seem to have completely missed my point.

Grey Wardens are an organization.  There's nothing inherently unique about Grey Wardens outside of the monopoly they are forcing by not sharing the ritual.

If the ritual became known by others, Grey Wardens would, as an organization, be completely unnecessary.

I don't think that if more people knew about the secret of the Joining, or about why Grey Wardens are the only ones able to defeat the archdemon (which you don't find out from the joing remember, the joining just is the initiation ritual, you only find out about the killing the archdemon thing a lot later) more people would be lining up for the chance to do it.

If anything I think that the grey wardens keep the whole business a secret is because if more people knew the truth about the whole process and the whole deal they wouldn't accept it-it is a lot harder to get recruits when you have a pretty good chance of dying before you even begin. Also, the general populous would probably not like it and just kick grey wardens out (because if they only know about the dangerous Joining ritual, and not the necessity of the grey wardens, then the grey wardens look a lot worse).

[SarEnyaDor]

Well, I see your point, but I think with the Chantry the way it is, that their reasons for secrecy seem kind of valid... I can't see the Chantry approving of the ritual at all, can you?

[robertthebard]

Taleroth wrote...

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I think I am missing the point, because I was pretty sure that if say Sten had killed the archdemon the soul/essence would just go into the nearest darkspawn and start the whole Blight over agian as soo n as it got more powerful. That the reason the Grey Wardens were necessary was to make the essence go into them, a vessel already filled with a soul, thus obliterating the archdemon's essence preventing the rebirth cycle.

So unless you are planning on making everyone in the army partially tainted, don't you need Grey Wardens still?

You need someone tainted, presumably by the ritual.  You do not need Grey Wardens.  There's no reason to make the entire army undergo the ritual, that's just silly.

So if you taint every 100th member of the army with the Joining, aren't they now Grey Wardens?  After all, the Joining is the only thing that seperates a Grey Warden from anyone else.