171 réponses à ce sujet

[kicsimalac]

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

Terrible against Mooks.

Piranha fills the exact same niche against bosses. I still disagree. PPR is junk. Ramp up kills you.

What are you saying? Melts them to the ground in 3 secs if you point your glorious laser beam at them

On bronze?  What?

Oh you have an X, so your uncharged beam works.  So the PPR is great against mooks at X.  LOL.

I have it at II.  It's terrible against mooks and the charge up leaves you out of cover and on top of that, rotten-egg reload animation of 3 seconds.

Ramp-up needs halved, base damage doubled, multiplier at 2x.

Boom, great gun.  Still has crap range and ridiculously long reload of doom, but I'll take that tradeoff.

Well, in 3 secs after the normal beam, it begins it's charged attack. That is the big gun. That is effective against both mooks and miniboss units.

[Pedactor]

kicsimalac wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

Terrible against Mooks.

Piranha fills the exact same niche against bosses. I still disagree. PPR is junk. Ramp up kills you.

What are you saying? Melts them to the ground in 3 secs if you point your glorious laser beam at them

On bronze?  What?

Oh you have an X, so your uncharged beam works.  So the PPR is great against mooks at X.  LOL.

I have it at II.  It's terrible against mooks and the charge up leaves you out of cover and on top of that, rotten-egg reload animation of 3 seconds.

Ramp-up needs halved, base damage doubled, multiplier at 2x.

Boom, great gun.  Still has crap range and ridiculously long reload of doom, but I'll take that tradeoff.

Well, in 3 secs after the normal beam, it begins it's charged attack. That is the big gun. That is effective against both mooks and miniboss units.

Not disputing that.

Do that on a Platinum, even with a Destroyer with Stronghold V and Cyclonic III and you melt.  Not your target.

Also, lag tracking while continuously firing.

Burst fire capable or worthless as far as I go.  Not disputing its damage isn't great when ramped up.

Simply pointing out that starting to fire behind a wall until ramp up then tracking lag on a moving target is terrible, unless hosting.

Since bosses move slower, it's only really great against them.

High weight, too many drawbacks as I said.  There's far better guns out there, especially at the effective range of the PPR.  And it's not a great boss killer compared to a 12 shot Piranha on a Destroyer, which is just effing crazy and specced for accuracy gives up probably 20 meters with a smart choke on it.

So you give up a possible mook killing slot for a redundant boss killing weapon.

Next time, try a Revenant X in the AR slot and then use a Piranha X against bosses with Smart Choke and Barrel and Piercing + Extended barrel on your Revenant.  Fire the Revenant from cover or hip fire when not in cover.

Or a Hurricane if you hate the Revenant or Indra.  Basically, much better options since the Piranha is such a devastating boss/mini boss killing weapon.

It's simply outclassed for what it is: A boss killing AR with a big ramp-up and limited range.  Piranha does more damage in 8 shots than that thing does fully ramped up and blowing through a whole clip on a target, at least that's what it feels like.  Plus it pierces without a mod.

Modifié par Pedactor, 17 août 2012 - 04:20 .

[kicsimalac]

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

Terrible against Mooks.

Piranha fills the exact same niche against bosses. I still disagree. PPR is junk. Ramp up kills you.

What are you saying? Melts them to the ground in 3 secs if you point your glorious laser beam at them

On bronze?  What?

Oh you have an X, so your uncharged beam works.  So the PPR is great against mooks at X.  LOL.

I have it at II.  It's terrible against mooks and the charge up leaves you out of cover and on top of that, rotten-egg reload animation of 3 seconds.

Ramp-up needs halved, base damage doubled, multiplier at 2x.

Boom, great gun.  Still has crap range and ridiculously long reload of doom, but I'll take that tradeoff.

Well, in 3 secs after the normal beam, it begins it's charged attack. That is the big gun. That is effective against both mooks and miniboss units.

Not disputing that.

Do that on a Platinum, even with a Destroyer with Stronghold V and Cyclonic III and you melt.  Not your target.

Also, lag tracking while continuously firing.

Burst fire capable or worthless as far as I go.  Not disputing its damage isn't great when ramped up.

Simply pointing out that starting to fire behind a wall until ramp up then tracking lag on a moving target is terrible, unless hosting.

Since bosses move slower, it's only really great against them.

High weight, too many drawbacks as I said.  There's far better guns out there, especially at the effective range of the PPR.  And it's not a great boss killer compared to a 12 shot Piranha on a Destroyer, which is just effing crazy and specced for accuracy gives up probably 20 meters with a smart choke on it.

So you give up a possible mook killing slot for a redundant boss killing weapon.

Next time, try a Revenant X in the AR slot and then use a Piranha X against bosses with Smart Choke and Barrel and Piercing + Extended barrel on your Revenant.  Fire the Revenant from cover or hip fire when not in cover.

Or a Hurricane if you hate the Revenant or Indra.  Basically, much better options since the Piranha is such a devastating boss/mini boss killing weapon.

It's simply outclassed for what it is.

I DO that on platinum and I don't get killed. Piranha has lesser DPS. Lost its teeth since nerf

Modifié par kicsimalac, 17 août 2012 - 04:23 .

[funfryfrenzy]

Its called Charge up beforehand... Just hold it down and break cover right as it spins up.

Love this setup for Plat

PPR/Reegar ftw

[Pedactor]

kicsimalac wrote...
I DO that on platinum and I don't get killed.

So you are a good player.  Congratulations.

You could do it with half the effort and stupid ammo/charge up meta-game with multiple other guns if you are good enough to use that.  It's why I stopped using it.  It's not worth the extra annoyances, which is what I've been telling you.

There's no advantages compared to Lolranha.

[Pedactor]

funfryfrenzy wrote...

Its called Charge up beforehand... Just hold it down and break cover right as it spins up.

Love this setup for Plat

PPR/Reegar ftw

What button keeps you in cover while shooting a weapon?

I haven't found that one.

I play on PC.  Is it button Zelbilack?  I don't have a Razer keyboard........

Modifié par Pedactor, 17 août 2012 - 04:23 .

[funfryfrenzy]

Its called hide behind the wall. Dont actually use it just hide behind the wall. i rarely use the small cover i just use the corridors or stand behind larger objects and pop out when its charged up and hide again until its cooled down

[kicsimalac]

You wait more for reloading these weapons you suggested than me waitng the 3 sec cooldwon. And I love unlimited ammo, and I don't like running to ammo boxes. Anyway, I just finished an other platinum outscoring the second with 30k. Again. As always.

Modifié par kicsimalac, 17 août 2012 - 04:34 .

[Pedactor]

kicsimalac wrote...

You wait more for reloading these weapons you suggested than me waitng the 3 sec cooldwon. And I love unlimited ammo, and I don't like running to ammo boxes

Not a piranha.  And ammo's never an issue.

And I'm always grabbing grenades between waves anyway on my Destroyer, which is the only guy I'd use the PPR on.

So my Piranha is restocked.

My Revenant ammo isn't really an issue because it's only used to kill mooks.  Which is my point:

Why are you using the AR slot for a boss killing gun?

Do you realize how many amazing boss killing guns exist in HVB SMGs and Shotguns that are much more effective?

The Piranha is the highest DPS weapon in the game, btw.

[Pedactor]

funfryfrenzy wrote...

Its called hide behind the wall. Dont actually use it just hide behind the wall. i rarely use the small cover i just use the corridors or stand behind larger objects and pop out when its charged up and hide again until its cooled down

So we're sacrificing a 40% damage reduction, too?

Modifié par Pedactor, 17 août 2012 - 04:37 .

[kicsimalac]

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...

You wait more for reloading these weapons you suggested than me waitng the 3 sec cooldwon. And I love unlimited ammo, and I don't like running to ammo boxes

Not a piranha.  And ammo's never an issue.

And I'm always grabbing grenades between waves anyway on my Destroyer, which is the only guy I'd use the PPR on.

So my Piranha is restocked.

My Revenant ammo isn't really an issue because it's only used to kill mooks.  Which is my point:

Why are you using the AR slot for a boss killing gun?

Do you realize how many amazing boss killing guns exist in HVB SMGs and Shotguns that are much more effective?

The Piranha is the highest DPS weapon in the game, btw.

Listen, you haven't seen my playing with it. It is an amazing gun in the right hands. It doesn't kill just bosses. It doesn't work for you? I understand. But don't try to convience me that it doesn't work for me either. I can unleash the hell with it, both on mooks, both on bosses. The piranha loses great DPS because of it's inaccuracy. The PPR doesn't, it focuses all its damage on one point. Good aim= very much damage. Higher then the revenant. And I would use my Typhhon sooner then the revenant. I did, until it was nerfed.

Modifié par kicsimalac, 17 août 2012 - 04:46 .

[funfryfrenzy]

Pedactor wrote...

funfryfrenzy wrote...

Its called hide behind the wall. Dont actually use it just hide behind the wall. i rarely use the small cover i just use the corridors or stand behind larger objects and pop out when its charged up and hide again until its cooled down

So we're sacrificing a 40% damage reduction, too?

Its all about how you play with it then. Nitpick all you want. It works wonders for me. If it doesnt for you use something else.

[Pedactor]

kicsimalac wrote...
So we're sacrificing a 40% damage reduction, too?
 
No we don't just look at my build

What does your build have to do with the loss of the 40% damage reduction (built into the game) you lose from not being in cover since you are precharging behind a wall considering it's a continuous fire weapon to maintain its damage?

I have no issue that you do well with it.

Somebody needs to interject into these threads to make sure somebody reading them for guidance takes those who would do well with ANY weapon and think they can make this gun translate into success.

It has major, killer drawbacks for many of us.  It also is very similar to the Typhoon now in function and it seems redundant, although the Typhoon is admittedly trash compared to the PPR's boss killing capabilities.

As I said and maintain:
If the Ramp up was halved, base damage doubled, multiplier halved it would be OK then.  It still would have a limited range and brutal punishment reload time, which would counter those changes in what most would consider "balance."

Also:

Devastation mode specced for accuracy, smart choke, Piranha doesn't miss unless you do, up to about 30 meters I'd say.

EDIT:  My main reason for my negativity is because so many people bail on matches due to disgust with this gun in my experience leaving my team shorthanded many times on Golds and/or even Silvers while releveling after promotion, or just flat out being worthless since they can't use it effectively.  Which making a gun with such a niche of people who can use effectively is very unfortunate and not really fair for an Ultra-Rare slot, that many of us would like to be spent on something we actually want to use.

Modifié par Pedactor, 17 août 2012 - 04:59 .

[soultaker65]

Pedactor wrote...
Not disputing that.

1. Do that on a Platinum, even with a Destroyer with Stronghold V and Cyclonic III and you melt.  Not your target.

2. Also, lag tracking while continuously firing.
Simply pointing out that starting to fire behind a wall until ramp up then tracking lag on a moving target is terrible, unless hosting.

3. Burst fire capable or worthless as far as I go.  Not disputing its damage isn't great when ramped up.

4. Since bosses move slower, it's only really great against them.

5. High weight, too many drawbacks as I said.  There's far better guns out there, especially at the effective range of the PPR.  And it's not a great boss killer compared to a 12 shot Piranha on a Destroyer, which is just effing crazy and specced for accuracy gives up probably 20 meters with a smart choke on it.

6. So you give up a possible mook killing slot for a redundant boss killing weapon.

7. Next time, try a Revenant X in the AR slot and then use a Piranha X against bosses with Smart Choke and Barrel and Piercing + Extended barrel on your Revenant.  Fire the Revenant from cover or hip fire when not in cover.

Or a Hurricane if you hate the Revenant or Indra.  Basically, much better options since the Piranha is such a devastating boss/mini boss killing weapon.

8. It's simply outclassed for what it is: A boss killing AR with a big ramp-up and limited range.  Piranha does more damage in 8 shots than that thing does fully ramped up and blowing through a whole clip on a target, at least that's what it feels like.  Plus it pierces without a mod.

(Match the numbers)

1. I'm not sure if your kidding or not, after wave 5 when no more mooks spawn it's very easy to shoot the whole clip without taking a single point of damage and even if you do take damage nothing is stopping you from taking cover.

2. I never host and I get lag all the time, but lag has never messed with the PR. You do know if the enemy is moving don't aim-in right?

3. Yes there is almost no reason to burst fire the PR

4. This is one of the reasons it so good on platinum

5. It's about as heavy as the Saber and you keep talking about being out of cover why bring up one of the most close
range weapons in the game when talking about a mid-long range weapon? if your using the PR at the same range as a Piranha your doing it wrong.

6. I'm not sure what your talking about it kills group of mooks just fine, the "cold mode" beam can kill one and when it gets to "hot mode" you can kill at least 4 mooks before you run out of ammo.

7. Now I know your kidding, Are you really comparing the most stable and accurate Assault Rifle in the game to the most Unstable and inaccurate Assault Rifle in the game?

8. If you try to make the PR perform like a close range weapon of course it going to do badly. it a mid-long range Assault Rifle not a close range shotgun. Also the Piranha does not pierce without a mod.

Modifié par soultaker65, 17 août 2012 - 05:13 .

[kicsimalac]

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...
So we're sacrificing a 40% damage reduction, too?
 
No we don't just look at my build

What does your build have to do with the loss of the 40% damage reduction (built into the game) you lose from not being in cover since you are precharging behind a wall considering it's a continuous fire weapon to maintain its damage?

I have no issue that you do well with it.

Somebody needs to interject into these threads to make sure somebody reading them for guidance takes those who would do well with ANY weapon and think they can make this gun translate into success.

It has major, killer drawbacks for many of us.  It also is very similar to the Typhoon now in function and it seems redundant, although the Typhoon is admittedly trash compared to the PPR's boss killing capabilities.

As I said and maintain:
If the Ramp up was halved, base damage doubled, multiplier halved it would be OK then.  It still would have a limited range and brutal punishment reload time, which would counter those changes in what most would consider "balance."

Also:

Devastation mode specced for accuracy, smart choke, Piranha doesn't miss unless you do, up to about 30 meters I'd say.

EDIT:  My main reason for my negativity is because so many people bail on matches due to disgust with this gun in my experience leaving my team shorthanded many times on Golds and/or even Silvers while releveling after promotion, or just flat out being worthless since they can't use it effectively.  Which making a gun with such a niche of people who can use effectively is very unfortunate and not really fair for an Ultra-Rare slot, that many of us would like to be spent on something we actually want to use.

I don't remember the part when I said "Only the PPR can be used effectivly with the destroyer" . Also, this threads function is to show people how to make the PPR useful, and not showing the most effective build (it is effective though) I don't think it would be a good idea to buff it. If it was stronger, more people would use it effectivly. The nerfer company would be annoyed that now they see only PPR users, and would want immidiate nerfs. It would end up worse than before. Saw it with Piranha. 

I also wrote that you are a support unit. Your teammates are in cover, and the enemies shoots their cover, closes at them. You shoot the enemy who are closest to them. You use them as "decoy".

Modifié par kicsimalac, 17 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[funfryfrenzy]

Look if used properly it works wonders.. Ive seen people burst fire it.... Ive seen people charge in and try to use it like a shotgun... Its a Mid-Long Range weapon not a CQC weapon.

Infinite ammo
Applies ammo buffs extremely fast
Melts through armor.
------
Ramp up period
Overheatting a problem unless paying attention
etc

[ryoldschool]

Pedactor wrote...

kicsimalac wrote...
So we're sacrificing a 40% damage reduction, too?
 
No we don't just look at my build

What does your build have to do with the loss of the 40% damage reduction (built into the game) you lose from not being in cover since you are precharging behind a wall considering it's a continuous fire weapon to maintain its damage?

I have no issue that you do well with it.

Somebody needs to interject into these threads to make sure somebody reading them for guidance takes those who would do well with ANY weapon and think they can make this gun translate into success.

It has major, killer drawbacks for many of us.  It also is very similar to the Typhoon now in function and it seems redundant, although the Typhoon is admittedly trash compared to the PPR's boss killing capabilities.

As I said and maintain:
If the Ramp up was halved, base damage doubled, multiplier halved it would be OK then.  It still would have a limited range and brutal punishment reload time, which would counter those changes in what most would consider "balance."

Also:

Devastation mode specced for accuracy, smart choke, Piranha doesn't miss unless you do, up to about 30 meters I'd say.

EDIT:  My main reason for my negativity is because so many people bail on matches due to disgust with this gun in my experience leaving my team shorthanded many times on Golds and/or even Silvers while releveling after promotion, or just flat out being worthless since they can't use it effectively.  Which making a gun with such a niche of people who can use effectively is very unfortunate and not really fair for an Ultra-Rare slot, that many of us would like to be spent on something we actually want to use.

I have been watching this discussion for a while and your most recent statement may explain what is the difference between the people who like the gun and those who have a problem with it.

When I tried it at level 2 I thought it was horrible, and was enjoying the Typhoon pre-nerf.   Once they nerfed the Typhoon I saw some of these threads talking about how good the Particle rifle was and so I gave it another try ( but I had it up to 6 by then ).  I believe the extra ammo and the damage buff helped a lot.  I have tried it on the destroyer and I tend to agree with you that the Piranha is really good there, but the Particle rifle is also good if you have some distance.

Last night I used it on Gold on the GE - throwing out a turret helps to distract the phantom/etc and you can take them down with the particle rifle.   Also Atlases in the distance get melted with the Particle rifle ( takes like two "clips" to totally take out an atlas ), but if far enought away its no problem.


tl;dr   Maybe you will like it better once you get it to a higer level.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 17 août 2012 - 05:15 .

[soultaker65]

I edit my post.

[Pedactor]

ryoldschool wrote...

tl;dl   Maybe you will like it better once you get it to a higer level.

Maybe.  I don't know.  I don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks when there's so many other guns that are rare or even uncommon that simply are easier to use.

If it required the thought it does and did double the damage that it does (aka was OP'd) I'd be tempted to use it despite the drawbacks.

But even then, my issues don't lie with its damage.  My issues lie with its mechanics that have never yielded any noticeable benefit to my team or, competitively, yielded anything beyond what I accomplish with somewhat lesser guns.

[kicsimalac]

Pedactor wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

tl;dl   Maybe you will like it better once you get it to a higer level.

Maybe.  I don't know.  I don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks when there's so many other guns that are rare or even uncommon that simply are easier to use.

If it required the thought it does and did double the damage that it does (aka was OP'd) I'd be tempted to use it despite the drawbacks.

But even then, my issues don't lie with its damage.  My issues lie with its mechanics that have never yielded any noticeable benefit to my team or, competitively, yielded anything beyond what I accomplish with somewhat lesser guns.

Don't bring up how hard is it to use as a fact. I have no problem using it at all. I don't understand why is it hard to use it. It is absolutly easy to use, just watch your ammo remaining, so you don't have to wait 5 secs just 3, don't go rambo with it, but stay behind your teammates and get the bastards off them and the most important is to point it at the enemy.

[ryoldschool]

Pedactor wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

tl;dl   Maybe you will like it better once you get it to a higer level.

Maybe.  I don't know.  I don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks when there's so many other guns that are rare or even uncommon that simply are easier to use.

If it required the thought it does and did double the damage that it does (aka was OP'd) I'd be tempted to use it despite the drawbacks.

But even then, my issues don't lie with its damage.  My issues lie with its mechanics that have never yielded any noticeable benefit to my team or, competitively, yielded anything beyond what I accomplish with somewhat lesser guns.

lol, yeah time will tell.   But don't give up on it, give it a go once you get it higher.  You need to use what works for you and I will agree that some weapons might be good for you but not for me.:happy:

[Pedactor]

soultaker65 wrote...

I edit my post.

I will sum it up like this:

The Revenant fired from cover by a Destroyer, which if you notice is in the title of this post, is fairly accurate.  The PPR is pinpoint accurate.  I know you are a huge proponent of the PPR.  I've read alot of your posts.

But everything you are saying is based on a 20 meter range where the Piranha stops being accurate on an accuracy specced/smart choked destroyer and the PPR drops off.

As for your mook killing: I completely and vehemently disagree, the uncharged gun feels like an automatic predator with a piercing mod on it but no piercing.

And the Piranha has shallow penetration.

[Pedactor]

kicsimalac wrote...

Don't bring up how hard is it to use as a fact. I have no problem using it at all. I don't understand why is it hard to use it. It is absolutly easy to use, just watch your ammo remaining, so you don't have to wait 5 secs just 3, don't go rambo with it, but stay behind your teammates and get the bastards off them and the most important is to point it at the enemy.

I do not hide behind anything but cover on a destroyer.  He's a front-line fighter.  So no, I won't be doing that, and if that's how you play with that gun, I would recommend speccing 6/6/6/6/0 on your destroyer.

Also:

What other gun requires you to sit there for 5 seconds if you run its clip to zero?

What other gun has a 3 second charge up to deal maximum damage via round expenditure?

What other automatic weapon has its bullets fall to the ground at 50 meters?

Modifié par Pedactor, 17 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[ryoldschool]

kicsimalac wrote...

Pedactor wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

tl;dl   Maybe you will like it better once you get it to a higer level.

Maybe.  I don't know.  I don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks when there's so many other guns that are rare or even uncommon that simply are easier to use.

If it required the thought it does and did double the damage that it does (aka was OP'd) I'd be tempted to use it despite the drawbacks.

But even then, my issues don't lie with its damage.  My issues lie with its mechanics that have never yielded any noticeable benefit to my team or, competitively, yielded anything beyond what I accomplish with somewhat lesser guns.

Don't bring up how hard is it to use as a fact. I have no problem using it at all. I don't understand why is it hard to use it. It is absolutly easy to use, just watch your ammo remaining, so you don't have to wait 5 secs just 3, don't go rambo with it, but stay behind your teammates and get the bastards off them and the most important is to point it at the enemy.

Using it is an acquired taste, however.  I can't tell you how many times I kept the trigger down too long because the banshee/atlas/brute/prime was about to drop.  

Also, somebody mentioned somewhere ( maybe not this thread ) that the sound drops off with about 50 "rounds" left in the gun and you can use that to tell when to stop holding the trigger - that way you could keep your eye on the target instead of looking at the ammo count.   --  I was listening for that last night and was unable to detect the audible clue.  Maybe if I played with earphones on I could hear it, but not with my speaker system.

[Cohen le Barbare]

Pedactor wrote...
EDIT:  My main reason for my negativity is because so many people bail on matches due to disgust with this gun in my experience leaving my team shorthanded many times on Golds and/or even Silvers while releveling after promotion, or just flat out being worthless since they can't use it effectively.  Which making a gun with such a niche of people who can use effectively is very unfortunate and not really fair for an Ultra-Rare slot, that many of us would like to be spent on something we actually want to use.

As always, the problem lies with the user. It is indeed detrimental to the team to get used to this weapon on gold. New PPR owners should go solo bronze against reapers to get used to the weapon and understand how to make the most of it.

This weapon is very different from the Piranha, which you can pick on any class and go on your merry killing spree.