184 réponses à ce sujet

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Because you would need some sort of catalyst to start the reaction to make it fire.

Then why not build one?

And, the nubbin unfolded to take the shape that it does.

Yes yes by mashing the models together you see what you want to see.
Except there are only 4 prongs visible in the "plug" model and far more on the Citadel.
Even if that *was* the "plug", the control devices are below the structure. Did they magically fly out and latch into position? How? Who designed it? How would they know? 

Also, why place the controls there of all places? That's horrifically inefficient. Why not place controls in a more easily accessable part of the Crucible? 

Modifié par The Angry One, 16 août 2012 - 12:13 .

[Wayning_Star]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
like totally cooool gizmo pics!!

the functions are part of the "Catalyst" who is the Citadel, that is it's main computer hub.. but, the 'new optional update codes' for that computer that directs the choices and the Shepard/organics interface are within the crucible. Nothing new can happen without the crucible.

How does one update something you do not know exists?

we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

[Ticonderoga117]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
Because you would need some sort of catalyst to start the reaction to make it fire.

And, the nubbin unfolded to take the shape that it does.

But if all the functions are in the Crucible, you wouldn't need anything else. You don't need a catalyst.

Bill Casey wrote...
It enhances dark energy transmissions, and coordinates the mass relay network...
The Prothean VI tells you this...

So then just cause the effect locally.
Oh wait, we can't, because all the functions are on the Citadel.

[Ticonderoga117]

Wayning_Star wrote...
we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

That doesn't answer the question, because you can't. No one knew the Catalyst was GlowBoy, at best, they thought it was the Citadel.

[Wayning_Star]

the pattern is the marks of war between the Catalyst program and it's creator race... not organics vs reapers, they are by products and the harvested races are collateral damage..

[The Angry One]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So then just cause the effect locally.
Oh wait, we can't, because all the functions are on the Citadel.

Yeah, really. If it was the Crucible's functions alone, and the Crucible had the controls, just use it as a mobile destruction platform. Jump into system, fire effect, repeat.

[Fawx9]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Actually, Control/Destroy are built into the Crucible!

You realize that you are suggesting that every known race that has built the crucible didn't know they were building control segments when infact they were?

Just how dumb would those engineers have to be?

[AresKeith]

The Angry One wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So then just cause the effect locally.
Oh wait, we can't, because all the functions are on the Citadel.

Yeah, really. If it was the Crucible's functions alone, and the Crucible had the controls, just use it as a mobile destruction platform. Jump into system, fire effect, repeat.

the Catalyst wouldn't really be needed if the Crucible had all the controls and functions

[Wayning_Star]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...
we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

That doesn't answer the question, because you can't. No one knew the Catalyst was GlowBoy, at best, they thought it was the Citadel.

your statement, though understandable, is irrelevent. The crucible knew and identified the catalyst, similar to the AI on thessia that gave warnings of reaper activity after it scanned the area. It even hid out when KeLing showed. Heck it didn't even like the IM's holo image, could tell he was indoctrinated. Remember, the cycle and crucible and it's designers are not new to the pattern. For some reason,yet to be disclosed, Shepard is the wild card, not the crucible.

[The Angry One]

Fawx9 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Actually, Control/Destroy are built into the Crucible!

You realize that you are suggesting that every known race that has built the crucible didn't know they were building control segments when infact they were?

Just how dumb would those engineers have to be?

Exactly this dumb:



We are strong. We make the Crucible go!

[Ticonderoga117]

AresKeith wrote...
the Catalyst wouldn't really be needed if the Crucible had all the controls and functions

The functions is the important part. If they're part of the Crucible, then we don't need the Citadel. But we do, thus, they aren't a part of it.

[Ticonderoga117]

The Angry One wrote...
Exactly this dumb:



We are strong. We make the Crucible go!

.... Thank you. I forgot that episode and that is now how I imagine every scientist and engineer involved in ME3.
+100 internets

[Xellith]

Fawx9 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Actually, Control/Destroy are built into the Crucible!

You realize that you are suggesting that every known race that has built the crucible didn't know they were building control segments when infact they were?

Just how dumb would those engineers have to be?

Were you even paying attention to the level of retardation in the galaxy at any one of your playthroughs?

[WestLakeDragon]

So, where you meet Starchild is on the Citadel, right? The fact that you have to shoot the tube to choose destroy just tells me that the Starchild doesn't want you to do it. He wants you to choose one of the other 2 options, and that is why he tells you Destroy first. It is a classic move, in conversation, to tell the option you least want to do first, and save the one you want most for last, as to let it sink in with the listener the most.

The Starchild WANTS you to choose Synthesis, which is why I see a problem with it. It is what the Citadel was designed to do, and in my eyes it is a Reaper victory.

[Wayning_Star]

AresKeith wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

So then just cause the effect locally.
Oh wait, we can't, because all the functions are on the Citadel.

Yeah, really. If it was the Crucible's functions alone, and the Crucible had the controls, just use it as a mobile destruction platform. Jump into system, fire effect, repeat.

the Catalyst wouldn't really be needed if the Crucible had all the controls and functions

Hasn't anyone noticed that when first supposedly on the citadel, shep and apperently anderson, noted massive changes in the area they were in, entire blocks of the construction were shifiting, changing? Don't, or can't we easily surmise the matter is probably pretty easy to manipulate by this advanced tech?

Why oo we need big red buttons to know what to do in a panic situation? These things are all totally alien and from a past so vast and distant, making the future look obsolete. They have forgotten much of what we will ever learn, or know.. Face it, its taken normal space, what, millions, no billions of years just to find a hint of what the reapers represent.. muchless what the crucible really is/stands for or capable of. We are their "tools"...

[AngryFrozenWater]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

That doesn't answer the question, because you can't. No one knew the Catalyst was GlowBoy, at best, they thought it was the Citadel.

Agreed. Nobody knew the functions of the Citadel/Crucible either. At best the civilizations used plans left by others. Even Shepard's cycle, who completed the device and deployed it, didn't have a clue, until the brat explains the functions. Therefore it is likely that the reapers dropped the plans and refinements for the Crucible, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to force the civilizations to develop along the paths they required. This time the Citadel was not a trap to start the harvesting, but to force the three options down the civilization's throat. That would explain why the brat had extensive knowledge of the ins and outs of the device. The brat also explains that its eugenics experiments failed, but it ensures Shepard that this time synthesis is safe to use. The control and destroy options must have been much easier to include in the plans.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 16 août 2012 - 12:31 .

[Lonsecia]

Sometimes the collective intelligence of the ME Universe feels as though it's goal is to be like molasses. Thick, gloopy and if you stick your finger in it and lick, you'll probably be sick.

I'm still trying to work out why they thought the Crucible was a weapon at first, when surely even the schematics would have made it clear it's a battery of some sort. I'm not entirely sure on this, but I suspect the parts would differ in quite a few noticeable ways. And even if to a layperson they'd appear the same, it's being built by supposedly the best of the best in the entire galaxy. Meh.

[AresKeith]

*Shepard shoots the tube and picks destroy*

Catalyst: "you bastard, I wanted Synthesis"

[Fawx9]

Xellith wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Actually, Control/Destroy are built into the Crucible!

You realize that you are suggesting that every known race that has built the crucible didn't know they were building control segments when infact they were?

Just how dumb would those engineers have to be?

Were you even paying attention to the level of retardation in the galaxy at any one of your playthroughs?

It's not just our retarded cycle though. there was nothing left for the protheans to suggest what those 'control' panels do and they didn't figure it out either.

It's like suggesting whoever implements that part goes full retard, and you should never go full retard.

[MattFini]

WestLakeDragon wrote...

So, where you meet Starchild is on the Citadel, right? The fact that you have to shoot the tube to choose destroy just tells me that the Starchild doesn't want you to do it. He wants you to choose one of the other 2 options, and that is why he tells you Destroy first. It is a classic move, in conversation, to tell the option you least want to do first, and save the one you want most for last, as to let it sink in with the listener the most.

The Starchild WANTS you to choose Synthesis, which is why I see a problem with it. It is what the Citadel was designed to do, and in my eyes it is a Reaper victory.

Yes, and this is exactly my problem with the ending.

With destroy, Shepard stiil acquiesces to the StarChild by choosing it.

Had this somehow been presented differently so that Shepard figures out to choose it on his own - while the StarBrat is extoling the virtues of control/synthesis - it would've been much more satisfying and climactic. 

In fact, that almost would've made the whole ending workable in my eyes (if you take away the forced genocide and maybe added in some squad casualties or something). Basically, a way to call the StarChild out on his BS and destroy him and the reapers while he's trying to manipulate you into picking something else.

It's the passive nature of the ending that gets to me the most.  

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Angry One wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Because you would need some sort of catalyst to start the reaction to make it fire.

Then why not build one?

Well, *somebody* already laid out the blueprint for Crucible to pair with the Citadel as the catalyst. It's built now. Why waste time trying to figure out a non-issue?

And we didn't know what the catalyst was until after Cerberus HQ, after which point they've already committed to using as it was made.

Yes yes by mashing the models together you see what you want to see.
Except there are only 4 prongs visible in the "plug" model and far more on the Citadel.

No, there are only four in both. The picture of it on the Citadel doesn't reflect the layout in the game, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the other two prongs sitting behind Control/Destroy that are labeled (they are directly behind it). Whoever made the pic was just making things more visible.

Even if that *was* the "plug", the control devices are below the structure. Did they magically fly out and latch into position? How? Who designed it? How would they know?

I guess whichever cycle determined that the Citadel is the catalyst.

Also, why place the controls there of all places? That's horrifically inefficient. Why not place controls in a more easily accessable part of the Crucible?

What part is more accessible than the one that lands on the Citadel?

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 16 août 2012 - 12:36 .

[Darth Death]

Modifié par Darth Death, 16 août 2012 - 12:48 .

[Sarevok Synder]

I would be willing to bet it was Leviathan who designed the crucible. From the trailer it seems Leviathan has been in the background for a long time, considering the Reapers wiped out its entire race, it definitely has a dog in this fight. Now why it would want anything other than destroy to be its purpose, well, artistic integrity.

[Wayning_Star]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

That doesn't answer the question, because you can't. No one knew the Catalyst was GlowBoy, at best, they thought it was the Citadel.

Agreed. Nobody knew the functions of the Citadel/Crucible either. At best the civilizations used plans left by others. Even Shepard's cycle, who completed the device and deployed it, didn't have a clue, until the brat explains the functions. Therefore it is likely that the reapers dropped the plans and refinements for the Crucible, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to force the civilizations to develop along the paths they required. This time the Citadel was not a trap to start the harvesting, but to force the three options down the civilization's throat. That would explain why the brat had extensive knowledge of the ins and outs of the device. The brat also explains that its eugenics experiments failed, but it ensures Shepard that this time synthesis is safe to use. The control and destroy options must have been much easier to include in the plans.

It's one thing humans are good at, guessing whats the best choice.<(key in sarcasm) There is no ugenics experiment,ever..that's projecting 20th century ideals on alien technology, of which we admit that the MEU are clueless. The reapers didn't plant the crucible or the citadel, the original creators did it.. but many of the facts are lost in time, it all started so very long ago.