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[teh DRUMPf!!]

I don't think I ever realized how truly lulzy the Crucible is until now. 

[Wayning_Star]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

I would be willing to bet it was Leviathan who designed the crucible. From the trailer it seems Leviathan has been in the background for a long time, considering the Reapers wiped out its entire race, it definitely has a dog in this fight. Now why it would want anything other than destroy to be its purpose, well, artistic integrity.

?!?, have you been channeling Bioware writers again?..

(cool call, imho sans the 'integritty' comment;)

[Taboo]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I don't think I ever realized how truly lulzy the Crucible is until now. 

It's a giant phallus that fires one of three different colored beams when you stimulate a certain part.

What's so hard to understand?

[The Angry One]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Well, *somebody* already laid out the blueprint for Crucible to pair with the Citadel as the catalyst. It's built now. Why waste time trying to figure out a non-issue?

Who did that? Why? How? Why didn't they just build one?

And we didn't know what the catalyst was until after Cerberus HQ, after which point they've already committed to using as it was made.

I'm not talking about the current patsies, am I.

No, there are only four in both. The picture of it on the Citadel doesn't reflect the layout in the game, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the other two prongs sitting behind Control/Destroy that are labeled (they are directly behind it). Whoever made the pic was just making things more visible.

Every shot I see in game looks like there's more than four, and if you're saying the image you posted is doctored then there's no point in going over it any further.

I guess whichever cycle determined that the Citadel is the catalyst.

Ah yes this mysterious cycle that was allegedly brilliant enough to design the Crucible to perfectly interface with the Citadel but so rock stupid as to not leave any hints whatsoever in these revised designs that the Citadel is a component.

What part is more accessible than the one that lands on the Citadel?

Considering the Citadel should be assumed to be in the control of the Reapers and therefore hostile at all times, literally anywhere else.

Modifié par The Angry One, 16 août 2012 - 12:46 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

That doesn't answer the question, because you can't. No one knew the Catalyst was GlowBoy, at best, they thought it was the Citadel.

Agreed. Nobody knew the functions of the Citadel/Crucible either. At best the civilizations used plans left by others. Even Shepard's cycle, who completed the device and deployed it, didn't have a clue, until the brat explains the functions. Therefore it is likely that the reapers dropped the plans and refinements for the Crucible, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to force the civilizations to develop along the paths they required. This time the Citadel was not a trap to start the harvesting, but to force the three options down the civilization's throat. That would explain why the brat had extensive knowledge of the ins and outs of the device. The brat also explains that its eugenics experiments failed, but it ensures Shepard that this time synthesis is safe to use. The control and destroy options must have been much easier to include in the plans.

It's one thing humans are good at, guessing whats the best choice.<(key in sarcasm) There is no ugenics experiment,ever..that's projecting 20th century ideals on alien technology, of which we admit that the MEU are clueless. The reapers didn't plant the crucible or the citadel, the original creators did it.. but many of the facts are lost in time, it all started so very long ago.

That's another interpretation. The brat tells you about its eugenics experiments. It acts as if it is its own option. Shepard even asks "Why couldn't you do it sooner?" It responds to Shepard that the earlier experiments failed, but that this time it will succeed. That's my interpretation.

[Wayning_Star]

Taboo-XX wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I don't think I ever realized how truly lulzy the Crucible is until now. 

It's a giant phallus that fires one of three different colored beams when you stimulate a certain part.

What's so hard to understand?

well, I DID have to look up the word lulzy...sooo.

[The Angry One]

Taboo-XX wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

I don't think I ever realized how truly lulzy the Crucible is until now. 

It's a giant phallus that fires one of three different colored beams when you stimulate a certain part.

What's so hard to understand?

Men. :3

[AtreiyaN7]

From approximately 5:08 in the video ():

Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Catalyst: The device you refer to as the Crucible is little more than a power source. However, in combination with the Citadel and the relays it is capable of releasing tremendous amounts of energy throughout the galaxy. It is crude but effective and adaptive in its design.
Shepard: Who designed it?
Catalyst: You would not know them, and there is not enough time to explain. We first noted the concept for this device several cycles ago. With each passing cycle, the design has no doubt evolved.
Shepard: Why didn't you stop it?
Catalyst: We believed the concept had been eradicated. Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized.

1) The Catalyst states that the Crucible is a power source.
2) Neither the Catalyst nor the Reapers designed the Crucible.
3) The Catalyst believed that the Crucible design had been eradicated, which he flat-out says.

Oh wait, here come the whole "the Catalyst is a liar!" thing, I'm sure.

Now because the Crucible is not of Reaper-design, how exactly can you possibly claim that its only true function was to power Synthesis? Are you seriously going to try to say that the other unknown civilization that first designed the Crucible did so in order for the Catalyst to use it to make Synthesis happen?

That is completely illogical and makes zero sense, so I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. The Crucible's "only true function" is exactly what the Catalyst says: as a power source that can release massive amounts of energy under the right conditions. How that power is distributed in each ending, beam or no beam, waveforms or rings, or whatever else you can come up with, is probably completely irrelevant.

/endthread

[Wayning_Star]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

we don't the crucible designers do, we're just the hired help...

That doesn't answer the question, because you can't. No one knew the Catalyst was GlowBoy, at best, they thought it was the Citadel.

Agreed. Nobody knew the functions of the Citadel/Crucible either. At best the civilizations used plans left by others. Even Shepard's cycle, who completed the device and deployed it, didn't have a clue, until the brat explains the functions. Therefore it is likely that the reapers dropped the plans and refinements for the Crucible, just as they dropped knowledge and technology to force the civilizations to develop along the paths they required. This time the Citadel was not a trap to start the harvesting, but to force the three options down the civilization's throat. That would explain why the brat had extensive knowledge of the ins and outs of the device. The brat also explains that its eugenics experiments failed, but it ensures Shepard that this time synthesis is safe to use. The control and destroy options must have been much easier to include in the plans.

It's one thing humans are good at, guessing whats the best choice.<(key in sarcasm) There is no ugenics experiment,ever..that's projecting 20th century ideals on alien technology, of which we admit that the MEU are clueless. The reapers didn't plant the crucible or the citadel, the original creators did it.. but many of the facts are lost in time, it all started so very long ago.

That's another interpretation. The brat tells you about its eugenics experiments. It acts as if it is its own option. Shepard even asks "Why couldn't you do it sooner?" It responds to Shepard that the earlier experiments failed, but that this time it will succeed. That's my interpretation.

before those were just attempted assembly via borglike manifestation. Eugenics revolves around ONE race, superior to all other races. What is presented with synthesis, isn't that at all. It's a kind of a 'share' scenerio.

eu·gen·ics   /yuˈdʒɛnɪks/ Show Spelled[yoo-jen-iks] Show IPA

noun ( used with a singular verb )
the study of or belief in the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population, especially by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics).
http://dictionary.re...browse/eugenics

[Fawx9]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

From approximately 5:08 in the video ():

Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Catalyst: The device you refer to as the Crucible is little more than a power source. However, in combination with the Citadel and the relays it is capable of releasing tremendous amounts of energy throughout the galaxy. It is crude but effective and adaptive in its design.
Shepard: Who designed it?
Catalyst: You would not know them, and there is not enough time to explain. We first noted the concept for this device several cycles ago. With each passing cycle, the design has no doubt evolved.
Shepard: Why didn't you stop it?
Catalyst: We believed the concept had been eradicated. Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized.

1) The Catalyst states that the Crucible is a power source.
2) Neither the Catalyst nor the Reapers designed the Crucible.
3) The Catalyst believed that the Crucible design had been eradicated, which he flat-out says.

Oh wait, here come the whole "the Catalyst is a liar!" thing, I'm sure.

Now because the Crucible is not of Reaper-design, how exactly can you possibly claim that its only true function was to power Synthesis? Are you seriously going to try to say that the other unknown civilization that first designed the Crucible did so in order for the Catalyst to use it to make Synthesis happen?

That is completely illogical and makes zero sense, so I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. The Crucible's "only true function" is exactly what the Catalyst says: as a power source that can release massive amounts of energy under the right conditions. How that power is distributed in each ending, beam or no beam, waveforms or rings, or whatever else you can come up with, is probably completely irrelevant.

/endthread

The indoctrinated agents of the prothean cycle knew about the crucible. How did the star brat not know about it?

[The Angry One]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Oh wait, here come the whole "the Catalyst is a liar!" thing, I'm sure.

Now because the Crucible is not of Reaper-design, how exactly can you possibly claim that its only true function was to power Synthesis? Are you seriously going to try to say that the other unknown civilization that first designed the Crucible did so in order for the Catalyst to use it to make Synthesis happen?

Surprise! Atreiya arrives, immediately invents headcanon then demands I answer questions based on that.
Even if we accept that the Catalyst isn't lying (your basis for this is what, exactly? Since I can prove many ways in which it lies), does the Catalyst deny designing the Crucible? No. In fact, it evades the question using a nonsensical excuse.
Why does it evade it? Why does it claim "no time" when it has all the time in the world?

That is completely illogical and makes zero sense, so I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. The Crucible's "only true function" is exactly what the Catalyst says: as a power source that can release massive amounts of energy under the right conditions. How that power is distributed in each ending, beam or no beam, waveforms or rings, or whatever else you can come up with, is probably completely irrelevant.

I used "Crucible" in the title for simplicity. I immediately made it clear that I regard the functions attributed to the Crucible to be the Citadel's. Did you actually read the first part of my OP?

The way the wave is distributed is very relevant. If control doesn't need the beam and doesn't damage the Citadel, then it clearly requires less power. If the Crucible explodes in destroy but not in Synthesis, then it's clearly being overloaded somehow.

/endthread

You don't get to end my threads, dear.

[Wayning_Star]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

From approximately 5:08 in the video ():

Shepard: What do you know about the Crucible?
Catalyst: The device you refer to as the Crucible is little more than a power source. However, in combination with the Citadel and the relays it is capable of releasing tremendous amounts of energy throughout the galaxy. It is crude but effective and adaptive in its design.
Shepard: Who designed it?
Catalyst: You would not know them, and there is not enough time to explain. We first noted the concept for this device several cycles ago. With each passing cycle, the design has no doubt evolved.
Shepard: Why didn't you stop it?
Catalyst: We believed the concept had been eradicated. Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized.

1) The Catalyst states that the Crucible is a power source.
2) Neither the Catalyst nor the Reapers designed the Crucible.
3) The Catalyst believed that the Crucible design had been eradicated, which he flat-out says.

Oh wait, here come the whole "the Catalyst is a liar!" thing, I'm sure.

Now because the Crucible is not of Reaper-design, how exactly can you possibly claim that its only true function was to power Synthesis? Are you seriously going to try to say that the other unknown civilization that first designed the Crucible did so in order for the Catalyst to use it to make Synthesis happen?

That is completely illogical and makes zero sense, so I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. The Crucible's "only true function" is exactly what the Catalyst says: as a power source that can release massive amounts of energy under the right conditions. How that power is distributed in each ending, beam or no beam, waveforms or rings, or whatever else you can come up with, is probably completely irrelevant.

/endthread

adaptive..hmmm  a smart UPS..lol (sneaky friggen super races, can't live with'em cant shoot'em..grrr

[Conniving_Eagle]

I respect your tenacity.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 16 août 2012 - 01:01 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Dear Wayning_Star, synthesis to me has to do with creating a superior race and the decision can be viewed elitist. So eugenics fits fine. But do not let it anger you. No doubt you have another great term for those failed eugenics experiments. You know that I even don't want to know how they failed?

[AresKeith]

what if the Catalyst used Indoctrinated people from that cycle to make the Crucible design

[AngryFrozenWater]

AresKeith wrote...

what if the Catalyst used Indoctrinated people from that cycle to make the Crucible design

Or just used the knowledge of a harvested civilization.

[Wayning_Star]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Dear Wayning_Star, synthesis to me has to do with creating a superior race and the decision can be viewed elitist. So eugenics fits fine. But do not let it anger you. No doubt you have another great term for those failed eugenics experiments. You know that I even don't want to know how they failed?

I would agree if synthesis provided that everyone became either synthetic beings, or became completly organic, without virtue of individuality. It would help if the actions of it were better explained, but with what the situation says, only a miniscule change would be sufficient to alter the pattern enough to end the pattern. It would be no different than having blue babies.

The big fault would be changing the entire MEU down to the molecular level, that is, intefereing with natural order of things, but then we do mess with atomics, ozone levels and carcenogenic party favors, but no one seems to mind the genetic mutations associated with such tom foolery. They make neat weapons, cheap energy and car parts'n stuff..sooo Two billion wrongs don't make a right,eh?

[zambot]

Control needs the crucible to function. Otherwise it would be an option in low EMS destroy.

Likewise Destroy does as well, because you do not get that option in low EMS control.

Lastly, we know spacecadet tried Synthesis before, but it didn't work.  Perhaps it didn't work because he didn't have a Crucible and "Shepard Essence" (which has proven magical properties).

Modifié par zambot, 16 août 2012 - 01:15 .

[AresKeith]

zambot wrote...

Control needs the crucible to function. Otherwise it would be an option in low EMS destroy.

Likewise Destroy does as well, because you do not get that option in low EMS control.

Lastly, we know spacecadet tried Synthesis before, but it didn't work.  Perhaps it didn't work because he didn't have a Crucible and "Shepard Essence" (which has proven magical properties).

not having Control or Destroy in low EMS is based off of the Collector base

[The Angry One]

I've already amended that the Crucible is likely used in "low power" mode in Control to distribute the effect to the Reapers.
As for why it's not available in low EMS with the Collector Base destroyed... I have no idea. It seems arbitrary and illogical.

The best I can come up with is that perhaps tech from the Collector Base influences it's design, so that when it becomes damaged due to low EMS, the synthesis wave is completely disabled hence even breaking the tube wouldn't do anything, because the energy is just not there.
Whereas without the CB tech, the Citadel's control mechanism can't siphon power from the Crucible due to the damage.

[Eterna]

 Another Brilliant and non biased thread by the Angry one that is supported by fact and truth from valid sources! Bravo The Angry one Bravo!



:innocent:

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Fawx9 wrote...

You realize that you are suggesting that every known race that has built the crucible didn't know they were building control segments when infact they were?

Just how dumb would those engineers have to be?

Maybe that Prothean control-faction was not indoctrinated!

[AngryFrozenWater]

Wayning_Star wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Dear Wayning_Star, synthesis to me has to do with creating a superior race and the decision can be viewed elitist. So eugenics fits fine. But do not let it anger you. No doubt you have another great term for those failed eugenics experiments. You know that I even don't want to know how they failed?

I would agree if synthesis provided that everyone became either synthetic beings, or became completly organic, without virtue of individuality. It would help if the actions of it were better explained, but with what the situation says, only a miniscule change would be sufficient to alter the pattern enough to end the pattern. It would be no different than having blue babies.

The big fault would be changing the entire MEU down to the molecular level, that is, intefereing with natural order of things, but then we do mess with atomics, ozone levels and carcenogenic party favors, but no one seems to mind the genetic mutations associated with such tom foolery. They make neat weapons, cheap energy and car parts'n stuff..sooo Two billion wrongs don't make a right,eh?

I don't have much good to say about synthesis. No rationalization will convince me, because I think it is disgusting to deny the original races their continued existence by altering their racial identities without their consent. All that to implement a solution to a non-existent problem.

[Wayning_Star]

The Angry One wrote...

I've already amended that the Crucible is likely used in "low power" mode in Control to distribute the effect to the Reapers.
As for why it's not available in low EMS with the Collector Base destroyed... I have no idea. It seems arbitrary and illogical.

The best I can come up with is that perhaps tech from the Collector Base influences it's design, so that when it becomes damaged due to low EMS, the synthesis wave is completely disabled hence even breaking the tube wouldn't do anything, because the energy is just not there.
Whereas without the CB tech, the Citadel's control mechanism can't siphon power from the Crucible due to the damage.

I wonder why EMS is connected to the synthesis option? Must be because the crucible cannot be protected from attacking Reaperships?

It does seem that if we don't find all the assets in the fetch and previous game mission decisions affecting the construction, does have an effect on it and other stuff in the end game.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Angry One wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Well, *somebody* already laid out the blueprint for Crucible to pair with the Citadel as the catalyst. It's built now. Why waste time trying to figure out a non-issue?

Who did that? Why? How? Why didn't they just build one?

....

And we didn't know what the catalyst was until after Cerberus HQ, after which point they've already committed to using as it was made.

I'm not talking about the current patsies, am I.

Just saying, they don't have a choice but to go with it after that.

No, there are only four in both. The picture of it on the Citadel doesn't reflect the layout in the game, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the other two prongs sitting behind Control/Destroy that are labeled (they are directly behind it). Whoever made the pic was just making things more visible.

Every shot I see in game looks like there's more than four, and if you're saying the image you posted is doctored then there's no point in going over it any further.

I guess whichever cycle determined that the Citadel is the catalyst.

Ah yes this mysterious cycle that was allegedly brilliant enough to design the Crucible to perfectly interface with the Citadel but so rock stupid as to not leave any hints whatsoever in these revised designs that the Citadel is a component.

...

Welcome to Mass Effect 3's ending.

What part is more accessible than the one that lands on the Citadel?

Considering the Citadel should be assumed to be in the control of the Reapers and therefore hostile at all times, literally anywhere else.

Nobody knew the catalyst actually controls the Reapers. The Citadel controls the relays and something about dark energy.