45 réponses à ce sujet

[BjornDaDwarf]

PaunchyCyclops wrote...

Liefglinde wrote...

PsychoticBiotic wrote...

PaunchyCyclops wrote...

There is no need to boost grenade capacity if you have the demolisher and a high cooldown boost.

There is no need to boost grenade damage by a marginal amount when you can have twice as many grenades instead.

It would be far better to boost weapon damage, shields, or something else than have a useless capacity for extra grenades that will be left unfilled.

My Demolisher routinely gets down to zero, and back up to 10 with no problem, that capacity is never wasted, particularly easy when on a grenade rich map.  And the high capacity comes in handy on objective waves, when resetting a pylon or hitting a grenade box may not be possible. 

[Yajuu Omoi]

Seerezaro wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

All grenades (I think) count as combat powers. Items that boost plain power damage increase grenade damage, but Tech and Biotic power boost items don't.

As was said before, all grenades except cluster and lift which are considered biotic.

Dude seriously? Do you pay attention at all?

EVERY GRENADE IS A COMBAT ABILITY
Now, lets look at what a "combat" ability IS exactly...
Its a power that is neith biotic nor tech, and yet can have properties or after effects of either. Grenades, are all combat powers, Arc and Inferno are inherintly tech related, ie electrical and fire damage. Lift and cluster nades are inherintly biotic related, ie LIFT after effect and BE's.
But NONE of them are Biotic nor Tech, as you cannot get the tech/biotic kills medals just by spamming them.
Concussive Shot is a combat, and if it worked properly would give off the effects of your ammo powers.
Do you call a Harrier with Warp ammo a Biotic gun? No. How about a Widow With Cryo ammo? Is it suddenly a Tech weapon? Nope.
Its because the tech/biotic effects are AFTER EFFECTS.

tl;dr Nades are neither tech or biotic, ALL nades are combat powers.

[Podboq]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Seerezaro wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

All grenades (I think) count as combat powers. Items that boost plain power damage increase grenade damage, but Tech and Biotic power boost items don't.

As was said before, all grenades except cluster and lift which are considered biotic.

Dude seriously? Do you pay attention at all?

EVERY GRENADE IS A COMBAT ABILITY
Now, lets look at what a "combat" ability IS exactly...
Its a power that is neith biotic nor tech, and yet can have properties or after effects of either. Grenades, are all combat powers, Arc and Inferno are inherintly tech related, ie electrical and fire damage. Lift and cluster nades are inherintly biotic related, ie LIFT after effect and BE's.
But NONE of them are Biotic nor Tech, as you cannot get the tech/biotic kills medals just by spamming them.
Concussive Shot is a combat, and if it worked properly would give off the effects of your ammo powers.
Do you call a Harrier with Warp ammo a Biotic gun? No. How about a Widow With Cryo ammo? Is it suddenly a Tech weapon? Nope.
Its because the tech/biotic effects are AFTER EFFECTS.

tl;dr Nades are neither tech or biotic, ALL nades are combat powers.

The power damage passive skills increase grenade damage though, not just the tech after affects, but grenade impact damage.

I thought it was an accepted fact that grenades fall under the power damage category.

[spudspot]

Liefglinde wrote...

PsychoticBiotic wrote...

PaunchyCyclops wrote...

There is no need to boost grenade capacity if you have the demolisher and a high cooldown boost.

There is no need to boost grenade damage by a marginal amount when you can have twice as many grenades instead.

This and the fact that anything above ~100% cd bonus doesn't make sense on the Demolisher.

[Cake Tasty]

I played a quick game to test this.

Lvl 20 Demolisher
6/6/6/6/0
Arc Grenade DoT
Homing Grenade DoT

Reegar VIII (shredder, barrel)
Predator X (ULM, no mod )

no consumables

Grenade spam exclusively except when they got close and I'd use the Reegar



The grenades themselves definately don't give tech kills but I got those 10 from somewhere (probably the DoT)

[ABjerre]

PsychoticBiotic wrote...

PaunchyCyclops wrote...

There is no need to boost grenade capacity if you have the demolisher and a high cooldown boost.

There is no need to boost grenade damage by a marginal amount when you can have twice as many grenades instead.

Capacity (5) x Damage (200) = Total Damage 

10 x 200 = 2000

5 x 400 = 2000

The numbers are merely examples, they could just as easy be index numbers, or actual values - they are merely there to demonstrate that boosting one other the other makes no difference, the final amount of damage is still the same.

[Mariachi 43]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Does not boost the explosion of them, but boost any tech attributes they may have ie Inferno or Arc. But ONLY the tech after effects. the detonation of the grenade will remain the same, as they are combat powers.

Mariachi 43 wrote...

Using capacity over engineering kit is unhelpful when answering this question. OP didn't ask which gear was better.

But to answer your question, I am inclined to say that the engineering kit v does NOT increase grenade damage. Grenades, such as the ones used on the demolisher, do not count towards tech kills. They can however create tech combos and the combos will count as tech kills but not the grenades themselves.

This does not apply to biotic grenades (cluster and lift) as thes DO in fact count as biotic kills. So the adaptive war amp would probably boost their damage. Hope this helps.

Actually no...cluster and lift nades do NOT count as biotic kills...if the lift effect FROM the nade kills the target? THEN its a biotic kill, but if the explosion kills the target, its a regular kill. Just FYI.

Actually they do. Ever since a vorcha sentinel get 10 biotic kills? I have. Know how? Cluster grenades.

[PhalanxForMe]

ABjerre wrote...

PsychoticBiotic wrote...

PaunchyCyclops wrote...

There is no need to boost grenade capacity if you have the demolisher and a high cooldown boost.

There is no need to boost grenade damage by a marginal amount when you can have twice as many grenades instead.

Capacity (5) x Damage (200) = Total Damage 

10 x 200 = 2000

5 x 400 = 2000

The numbers are merely examples, they could just as easy be index numbers, or actual values - they are merely there to demonstrate that boosting one other the other makes no difference, the final amount of damage is still the same.

What kind of nonsense is this?
Youre only correct because you pulled out some arbitrary numbers that arent actually achievable in game.
Going by your example, a more realistic version is:
5 x 230 = 1150
2000>1150 so grenade cap IS the better choice.

Where did i get the 230 you ask? Well using your 200 damage and using the +15% gear you get 230 damage per. There is no gear that outright doubles your power damage <_<

[PsychoticBiotic]

Mariachi 43 

Actually they do. Ever since a vorcha sentinel get 10 biotic kills? I have. Know how? Cluster grenades.

I've also gotten the 50 biotic kills with my Asari Vanguard just by spamming lift grenades.

[Holy-Hamster]

ABjerre wrote...

PsychoticBiotic wrote...

PaunchyCyclops wrote...

There is no need to boost grenade capacity if you have the demolisher and a high cooldown boost.

There is no need to boost grenade damage by a marginal amount when you can have twice as many grenades instead.

Capacity (5) x Damage (200) = Total Damage 

10 x 200 = 2000

5 x 400 = 2000

The numbers are merely examples, they could just as easy be index numbers, or actual values - they are merely there to demonstrate that boosting one other the other makes no difference, the final amount of damage is still the same.

/facedesk

If you don't understand why grenade capacity is better than there's something seriously wrong with your thinking.....

[PaunchyCyclops]

/facedesk

If you don't understand why grenade capacity is better than there's something seriously wrong with your thinking.....

Seriously wrong because we actually play the game and think about it? If you can't keep your grenades maxed, then having a high capacity that remains unused isn't worth it. Having a reliable constant stream of grenades makes having a high capacity not worth very much.

[Holy-Hamster]

So if you can't keep your ammo maxed anyway, having more ammo is a waste right? Derp.

[Aeqytas]

What about shocktrooper V(shotgun and gren cap) with pirahna vs GrenCap V?

[ErrorTagUnknown]

I think the point they are making is, with the demolshers pylon, you can replentish your grenades fast enough that the extra capacity is unecessary. Having 6 or 7 grenades or whatever you can get is plenty since you can replentish them almost as fast as you can use them.... ergo the damage boost would net you higher dps than having the extra grenades because you don't need a buffer of five additional grenades to keep yourself constantly stocked thanks to the pylon.

[PsychoticBiotic]

Aeqytas wrote...

What about shocktrooper V(shotgun and gren cap) with pirahna vs GrenCap V?

That makes more sense, but I guess it depends how much you use each.

[Pedactor]

Arc Grenades, Inferno Grenades, Lift Grenades, and perhaps cluster grenades have explosions (initial detonations) that are combat power damage, but I believe the slam on Lifts, Flame DoT damage on Infernos, and Arc Grenade DoT are in fact considered Biotic, Tech, and Tech for each specific grenade type.

Clusters are weird because they detonate biotic explosions, but they aren't considered a Biotic power.

The DoT on Organics for Frags (if anybody specs that) should theoretically also be considered tech, since I assume you can detonate a Tech Burst of Fire Explosion with it.

[ETDM]

...funny how a "Does X boosts damage of Y" becomes a battle of "I like more booms!" vs "I like powerful booms!"...

[PaunchyCyclops]

ErrorTagUnknown wrote...

I think the point they are making is, with the demolshers pylon, you can replentish your grenades fast enough that the extra capacity is unecessary. Having 6 or 7 grenades or whatever you can get is plenty since you can replentish them almost as fast as you can use them.... ergo the damage boost would net you higher dps than having the extra grenades because you don't need a buffer of five additional grenades to keep yourself constantly stocked thanks to the pylon.

While this might be true on bronze or silver that the demoloisher can constantly keep to their maximum capacity, it is not always the case on all maps on gold or platinum.

Indeed, it is true that if one cannot come close to maximum ammunition, then having the ability to have extra ammunition doesn't do any good. Ammunition is far less limited than grenades in ME3.

[weezer1201]

I'm a big advocate of grenade production, but I like the buffer of grenade capacity when I'm not using an assault rifle(don't have shock trooper high enough to use it yet). Sometimes you run into a stretch on platinum where it is risky to spend time exposed dropping a new pylon and you can get low on grenades. Regular pylon placement and 100% bonus can keep you in grenades constantly, but it isn't always a good time to place a new pylon. 

I don't see why tech boost would effect anything but the electrical and flame effect and tech bursts, which is a decent amount of damage, but it isn't the same as being able to throw four more grenades.

Modifié par weezer1201, 16 août 2012 - 07:39 .

[Hackulator]

Always Grenade Capacity. Cause sometimes, throwing 10 grenades in a row is really fun.

[Cake Tasty]

If you have too many grenades, you're not killing them fast enough. A demolisher can throw grenades much faster than they get replenished.

Plus you get so much more out of thermal clip packs its not funny