181 réponses à ce sujet

[corporal doody]

Disagree

[himegoto]

corporal doody wrote...

Disagree

Still in denial I see. Anyway,

himegoto wrote...

Play however you will, but dont complain the class is outclassed or how your biotic attacks always get dodged.

[corporal doody]

himegoto wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

Disagree

Still in denial I see. Anyway,

himegoto wrote...

Play however you will, but dont complain the class is outclassed or how your biotic attacks always get dodged.

Denial about what? I slap a Typhoon or Claymore or Piranha ON ANY class....never have to use a power and ROCK.

this thread isnt about that.


but whatevaz. 

I can rock the HS with a Harrier or Saber and never use a Power....and pwn...so yeah...you are right.

But again.....this thread aint about that.

[Hulk Hsieh]

The problem of enemy dodging power is that it is almost pure by chance.
If I miss with a Widow, I know it is usually my own fault.
If an enemy dodge my warp/throw, I'm punished by luck, which isn't fun at all.

[Tallgeese_VII]

Asari = Stasis = Unique

I will never choose Fury over my Asari adept. Especially now we have those +40% headshot damage mod for paladin and carnifex.

[ME3 Fury]

I love when the enemy has its back to you and still dodges. Or watching warp or throw going right through Geth Hunters is always fun.

[yarpenthemad21]

himegoto wrote...

No problem.
But that's the whole point I am trying to make though.

What makes human sentinel great is because of his sturdyness. And focusing on weapon damage maximizes his strength. As I said he has a completely different role than an AA.

His abilities syncs greatly with weapons. Again, throw then finish off the trash mobs on the ground/warp on heavy armor units, gain an armor bonus, and finish them off with weapons and throw.

I can see this thread is about warp and throw, which I tend to agree.
But you cannot justify the class as outclassed by having not play it to its potential.

50% dr from ta is 37,5 effective dr.
shields of HS with 3 fitness is 625. 625+37,5% = 859 shields.

6 fitness gives 825 shields on any human. you "tank" have  24 shields more than any other human class with maxed fitness. great tank.
for example krentinel have 1850 shields with max fitness + TA = 2543. geth rocket from rocket trooper deal 1445 damage on plat.
which class is tank now?

[AsheraII]

Cyonan wrote...

The main issue with Warp -> Throw is how unreliable it is to actually land either of those abilities on a target that's capable of dodging.

My current record is 10 Warps on a Phantom in a row that didn't land due to dodge, hand of denial, or the game just deciding that despite the Warp hitting, it wasn't going to apply the effect.

It probably would have been more, but at that point I gave up and figured my Eagle would just kill her faster than my Biotics would.

Non Phantoms I've gotten as high as 4-5 Warps before it sticks.

Taking the radius evolution for Throw instead of the damage one helps solve the dodge issue a little bit, but I do see a LOT of my warps hitting-but-not-really these days. At times the target even gets its distinct blue visual layer, but repeatedly following up with throw still won't trigger the Biotic Explosion.
I also noticed that very often now, an enemy killed with the follow up throw will NOT trigger the Biotic Explosion. So you get:
1. mook takes damage from warp
2. mook turns blue
3. mook takes damage from throw
4. mook dies
5. kill list says "X killed mook (Throw)
5. all mooks around dead mook are still at full health since there was no BE.

BE's not triggering happens more often when the detonator kills the target than when the detonator doesn't kill the target, but I still see it happen very often on targets that didn't die from the detonator to not BE as well.

[AsheraII]

DoubleHell wrote...

Dodge rates vs warp and throw need to be reduced by at least half, or damage done by warp/throw/BE needs to be increased.

Warp damage definitely shouldn't be increased, those are fine as they are already. The higher damage your warp deals, the bigger the chance of your target being already dead before your throw hits. And we don't want that, since we need that live warped enemy to make a Biotic Explosion.
Throw damage could maybe use a slight buff, but that isn't really necessary either. Maybe make it harder to dodge, by increasing the radius a little more.

The things that do need fixing though:
Targetting and Detonation code needs to be optimized.
-The amount of failed hits went up tremendously the past 2 months. This was always an issue on laggy games, but it's becoming an issue on all games by now: the game simply doesn't register hits, especially warp is often unregistered or only partially registered.
-Biotic Explosions not triggering is the other issue. Warp + throw = BE, right? Well How come a freshly warped target takes damage from a throw without triggering a BE? I'd say that either the warp didn't register properly (even though the enemy does appear blue layered and did take damage from the warp) or the BE code somehow doesn't find the connection between the enemy being warped and then being hit by throw.

[St3v3H]

It all depends against what enemy you play. The Asari Adept rocks against Cerberus. Shes still a powerfull class overall I just think people like to use the new classes more because they're new. I have played alot of Gold matchs with the AA and I still like her so I'll be mixing it up more once I get tired of the N7 classes

[KyreneZA]

My AA has been class-less since she first strapped on that stripper outfit... and then the Reapers arrived. It's hard to be a classy commando when your azure is hanging in the breeze, so yeah, she's outclassed...

What?

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

corporal doody wrote...
so i should play a biotic(ish) class like a light-soldier? better to just play a soldier(ish) class

Sadly Weapons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caster Powers. Yeah, more and more people are either no longer playing biotics or are just mostly shooting with biotics because biotic powers have been very outclassed by weapon spamming.

Maybe the next patch will bring some balance back to the game, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Felhand]

Nissun wrote...

What they have to do now, however, is buff the previous classes.

*Steeples fingers together* Yesssss make it so number one, make my turian soldier even more powerful. Bwuahahahahaherk *cough cough*

[rmccowen]

himegoto wrote...

What makes human sentinel great is because of his sturdyness. And focusing on weapon damage maximizes his strength. As I said he has a completely different role than an AA.

Focusing on weapon damage minimizes his strengths by substantially delaying BEs, and maximizes his weaknesses. It's a trap.

Human Sentinel can get a +27.5% bonus to weapon damage from Alliance Training... and that's it. You can't spec out of cooldowns, so you're still limited by weapon weight. You don't gain any other bonuses--and there's a reason the list of classes that gain RoF bonuses is the same as the list of the best weapon classes in the game.

Furthermore, the build you're listing doesn't take advantage of the actual strengths of an HS over an AA--which is, in fact, the massive "sturdyness". 6 in Tech Armor is a good start, but 3 in Fitness is much less effective than 4 Fitness, and it's a different world in comparison to 6 in FItness.

...I'll expand this into a post of its own later today, I think.

yarpenthemad21 wrote...

50% dr from ta is 37,5 effective dr.
shields of HS with 3 fitness is 625. 625+37,5% = 859 shields.

6 fitness gives 825 shields on any human. you "tank" have  24 shields more than any other human class with maxed fitness. great tank.
for example krentinel have 1850 shields with max fitness + TA = 2543. geth rocket from rocket trooper deal 1445 damage on plat.
which class is tank now?

That's not how the math works; 37.5% DR isn't equivalent to a 37.5% bonus to shields/health.

Think of it this way: if you have B base shields/health and a bonus of +F% from Fitness, you don't die until you take B(1+F) damage. The enemy deals D base damage reduced by your DR of R%, so it does D(1-R).

So in order to kill you, the enemy needs to put out B*(1+F)/(1-R) damage. Your total durability is given by (1+F)/(1-R), where F is your bonus from Fitness + gear and R is your (real, not tooltip) DR. Himegoto's build gets an effective (1+0.25)/(1-0.375) = 200% of its base health/shields, for an effective total of 1000 health and 1000 shields.

Which is why it needs more durability.

***

@OP: The AA and HS aren't outclassed for three reasons.

1) There is still no biotic class that matches AA/HS for powerful, self-detonating BEs at range. Every other class gives up (at least) one of those things.

2) Both classes are still more than viable on Gold (I haven't tried either in Platinum).

3) Speaking as someone who's bought 40+ PSPs since the Earth release for a total of ONE FREAKING N7, not everyone has the Fury--but everyone has the HS.

Modifié par rmccowen, 16 août 2012 - 01:13 .

[Pedactor]

The Asari Adept is fine. Yeah warp doesn't land sometimes, but it's still completely viable. 2nd best adept in my mind next to the Drell, who depends heavily on grenades and his weapon, much more than any other Biotic.

I am not a Fury fan. But many swear by her. The Phoenix Adept is outclassed by the Vanguard since Singularity is such garbage. Shockwave is still bugged on PC so humans are out for me.

The Asari Justicar Adept (Sphere/Reave) is outclassed in my mind by the Drell filling the same niche, but the Drell has way more benefits than her, although she is a crazy freaking tank.

Human Sentinel should be considered an adept, really, but you are 100% right here. There's far better Sentinels, basically all of them, even the Batarian at this point.

[lazuli]

I do think the dodging mechanics need some work. Enemies that aren't facing you shouldn't be able to dodge, for instance.

There are ways around dodging, like staggering the target first or feinting with a faster cooldown Throw before tossing a Warp in there. But you're already sacrificing several seconds to land a biotic explosion. Shouldn't that be enough?

It's a pipe dream, but if Bioware introduced equipment or passives that related to biotic projectile speed then maxing that out could be another way to counteract dodging.

[LeandroBraz]

corporal doody wrote...

EDIT...i neglected to mention overload, energy drain, and disruptor ammo SCREWING them up too

I actually like overload, it give me a tech burst + BE combo! When I see someone with this powers, I pay attention to them. If they are using on a enemy I'm trying BE, I just throw twice. Throw cooldown is meanless, so I'm doing more damage.

 Normally on a boss, I see the guy using overload, then I use warp, which do a tech burst but keep the warp effect, then he use overload again, then I throw twice, doing other tech burst and a biotic explosion. 

[tonnactus]

The fury is only good against mooks because neither Annilation Field nor Dark Channel have a evolution that increase the damage of biotic detonations. Against enemies like Atlases, Banshees and Brutes and Ravagers the Asari is miles better. Also the Acolyte solves dodging problems because it staggers enemies. (just use soft cover to charge it)

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 août 2012 - 01:17 .

[LeandroBraz]

They are perfectly viable, just put a vindicator on their hands.. Human Sentinel is one of my favorites on platinum, and I love Asari Dash, make easy to dodge enemies and get out of a flank...

[Taritu]

Yes, compared to the Fury they are underpowered. There is no question about this, because dark channel can't be dodged and it jumps to a new host when you kill the first one. This even before we get to annhialation field. And the Cerberus spam classes can damage enemies without risking themselves.

Viable is meaningless. I can finish gold with any class, even a Drellguard. Every class is viable.

Anyone whot thinks biotics are good against Banshees hasn't tried to kill one with biotics only recently.  You'll wait all day.

Modifié par Taritu, 16 août 2012 - 01:26 .

[ME3 Fury]

Taritu wrote...

Yes, compared to the Fury they are underpowered. There is no question about this, because dark channel can't be dodged and it jumps to a new host when you kill the first one. This even before we get to annhialation field. And the Cerberus spam classes can damage enemies without risking themselves.

Viable is meaningless. I can finish gold with any class, even a Drellguard. Every class is viable.

Anyone whot thinks biotics are good against Banshees hasn't tried to kill one with biotics only recently.  You'll wait all day.

Area Reave is just as effective as Dark Channel, plus Reave can go through Guardian shields. It's all dependent on player style. With Reave and and Pull fully specced, you can wipe out a mob faster from a distance than using DC. However, up close, AH and throw will do the same job.

[lazuli]

Reave is a far better power than Dark Channel, if for no other reason than its capacity for AoE. Yeah, they serve different purposes and Dark Channel has the nifty perk of setting up multiple explosions. But I know which power I'd rather have on my Fury.

Reave and Throw on the same class would probably be absurdly overpowered though.

[Pichsterz]

AA is fine, I played her on Cerberus Gold last night and she can still dominate. Stasis + Paladin = headshots festival, killing a Stasis Phantom with three headshots never gets old.

[UEG Donkey]

Xaijin wrote...

maybe the Paladin doesn't

The Paladin can absorb almost twice the damage a fully defensive geared KSent can, and can roll the **** out of the way of fire.

^This,  Furthermore he's basically a turretless engineer and can tank with his energy drain. 

[MaxShine]

I am pretty sure that the Asari Adept (+ M-77 Paladin) and Asari Vanguard (+ Cerberus Harrier) will do better against Cerberus than the N7 Fury. The Fury is better against the Reapers, against the Geth I would actually prefer the Asari, because you do not want to be in Annhilation Field range vs the Geth.