181 réponses à ce sujet

[RamsenC]

Scorpion w/ ULM has made Stasis unnecessary. Definitely not the easiest thing to level, but if you have it Phantoms should be no problem. It's also pretty good on hunters. Good dps weapon + scorpion > Asari Adept.

[Bleachrude]

I'm not sure any of those nerfs actually need to be rolled back...

I mean, seriously, when two opponents 10 metres from each other can be affected by the same biotic explosion between them?

Similarly, take Stasis...As of right now, you can still spec Stasis to be able to put up 3 bubbles at once (true, the 3rd one can be created just as the first one breaks)...the old version you could do 4 at once (with the 1st one still having over 2s when the 4th one is formed)

The main problem is AoE attacks when used by 3 or 4 characters at the same time...

[sliverofamoon]

ANY fully Biotic team is INSANELY good, if everyone works together. The key thing though is working together.

[Immortal Strife]

The AA used to be one of the best classes in the game but along came new characters, nerfs, and enemy buffs...she now resides on the upper part of the mid-line.

The HS can carry a Piranha and have basically a 200% cooldown, so yeah, he/she is not bad.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 17 août 2012 - 02:25 .

[Star fury]

Air Quotes wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Asari adept and poor man's asari adept were gimped hard by power creep and most importantly by enemy buffs and nerfs of stasis and BE. 100% dodging chance of mobs made biotic's life miserable(if you don't have instant biotic power i.e. reave, dark channel, annihilation field).

Now AA is more like support character - invaluable vs Cerberus and useful in combination with another biotic vs any race. Oh, btw Geth make asari and HS cry.

My AA does very well on Gold vs Cerberus and Reapers (120k+ usual). It's tougher with Geth, but that is because Geth cheat way too much. 

And what did I write? "invaluable vs Cerberus".

Your team was bad if they let you get high score with reapers, usually when I play with friends they kill most mobs, so I just help them here and there. Especially with new classes.

[t3hTwinky]

I stopped using my Human Sentinel after Rebellion came out. I don't know if it was just my imagination, but my God, Warp just would not land on anything.

[friedricethem0n]

ToaOrka wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Same for Krogans and Batarians, and to a lesser extent Turians unless you have a very specific build.

I dunno, a cooldown-less Krentinel with a Typhoon is a force to be reckoned with, even on higher difficulties.

+1.

I also equipped my Krentinel with Typhoon and also a Reegar X....

Grenade spam for the win..

[KyreneZA]

What a lot of AAs (or AVs) also don't realise is that with it's current (nerfed) cooldown, the Bonus Power evo 5 of Stasis is actually better than the Recharge Speed evo 5. Also, if they dodge too much, like the cheating Geth, you replace Warp with Stasis even if it takes longer on average to get your BEs on mobs. At least you get them and I almost think two Warps-one Throw takes longer to execute than one Stasis-one Warp/Throw.

Another thing to evaluate is choosing Recharge Combo evo 5 over Detonate evo 5 on Throw. X BE damage executed every Warp cooldown vs. 1.5X BE damage executed every Warp+Throw cooldown. I think the former wins and can be used more effectively when reacting to anyhting post-BE (Throw a Hunter that crept up to you, start another BE cycle sooner, etc.)

[ShepGrimr]

i too feel this way about AA. Sometimes people can kill this faster than i can detonate. I love using BE's. Again some things dodge but they don't dodge if i fire a weapon at them. Stasis seems ok for me i only stasis phantoms and sometimes geth huntards. I have it set up where it's 200% with the weapon equiped but its not enough.

[staindgrey]

Nissun wrote...

The N7 guys outclass everybody. Well, maybe the Paladin doesn't. And the Shadow/Slayer could be debated, but even they have one ridiculously effective ability.

What they have to do now, however, is buff the previous classes. Because the N7 guys are crazy fun to play. Imagine if the rest were up to their level, specially the soldier class.

It's hard to say that they outclass EVERYBODY. Most of the earlier classes can outdo N7 classes in some aspect of the game. The N7 classes are just easier to learn and play effectively.

I topped in points on a Platinum run with a basic Human Soldier against two N7 Destroyers and a Geth Infiltrator once. Felt good.

[Fortack]

Wow, the AA and HSen have to use a weapon in a TPS game to own - blasphemy! They ought to kill everything with spamming Warp-Throw all day long safe and comfy behind cover ... Seriously, learn to play (or more precisely, to shoot). Every class in this game owns, only poor players are outclassed by better ones. Deal with it or get better.

[Alijah Green]

corporal doody wrote...

i love them both...the AA much more so. Back when, they were the artillery you wanted....but alas...they are outmoded when compared to the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, Drell Adept, Asari Justicar, and especially the N7 Fury in terms of quick BOOM-BOOM (aka BE) and Death by Adept (DBA)...rather Death by Biotic (DBB).

warp and throw set-ups take too long...with warp only being able to hit a single target per cast...and 50% of the time the badguy dodges it...so cooldown...retoss and hope it lands. But with powers that cant jump or hit multiple targets, quicker powers, and  better weapons... the baddie is long dead before the much faster throw is tossed.

and yeah...the Asari Adept still has the stasis thing....but WHO doesnt automatically go after the thing stasised?

and yeah....a AA and HE should be fine when teamed another biotic....but how often in PUGS do you see a well coordinated pair of randoms doing the BE thing? it is uncommon to rare imho.  Then you still have to contend with the "individuals" that think it is funny to kill the baddie with the warp effect.

it is a sad day indeed when the once mighty (but still beloved) Asari Adept is last on the scoreboard when facing cerberus or the reapers in a gold match with team of only biotics.


I miss you awesome Asari Adept  (and to a lesser extent Human Sentinel). Will I ever see you again?

/sigh:(


EDIT...i neglected to mention overload, energy drain, and disruptor ammo SCREWING them up too

your doing it wrong OP, 
overload, energy drain, and disruptor ammo doesn't SCREW anything them up. you need to double up (throw) to get your BE.

[CitizenThom]

I've actually seen more Human Sentinels of late, with their ability to create biotic detonations every few seconds, they're not outclassed in my opinion. The Fury is a close quarters biotic more or less, it seems uber close up, but an Asari Adept and Human Sentinel have the flexibility of working from a distance.

edit: and yes, Furys can work from a distance, but not as effectively as the Asari Adept or Human Sentinel.

Modifié par CitizenThom, 17 août 2012 - 06:22 .

[JackieLee13]

Air Quotes wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Asari adept and poor man's asari adept were gimped hard by power creep and most importantly by enemy buffs and nerfs of stasis and BE. 100% dodging chance of mobs made biotic's life miserable(if you don't have instant biotic power i.e. reave, dark channel, annihilation field).

Now AA is more like support character - invaluable vs Cerberus and useful in combination with another biotic vs any race. Oh, btw Geth make asari and HS cry.

My AA does very well on Gold vs Cerberus and Reapers (120k+ usual). It's tougher with Geth, but that is because Geth cheat way too much. 

And what did I write? "invaluable vs Cerberus".

Your team was bad if they let you get high score with reapers, usually when I play with friends they kill most mobs, so I just help them here and there. Especially with new classes.

If your team is good - everyone has a similar score.

This kind of generalization isn't valid.  When I was first doing white/geth/gold runs, I was with a team that included a player who knew his job was to be the Salarian Engineer bait.  He stayed behind the counter most of the time, throwing Energy Drains and bullets around when he could, but his job was to keep the decoy going, and he did his job very well.  His score often stayed in the 20k range, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a valuable member of the team.

I also remember another game of all biotics with myself as the Justicar.  I Reaved every enemy I saw, and the two ex-Cerb guys Smashed everything, and the other char (don't remember who it was) applied whatever detonator as well.  The three of them ended up with scores in the 80k range, and I ended up with 160k.  Does that mean I did way more than everyone else on the team?  No (even though I joked around that I did).    But me having such a higher score had to do with who the game was awarding the kills to, and that ended up being me most of the time for whatever reason.

Score doesn't *always* matter when it pertains to how good your team is.  I think a better generalization would be - if you succeeded, that means your *team* is good.    And AA's can fit just fine in a team-oriented squad.

Modifié par JackieLee13, 17 août 2012 - 06:32 .

[JackieLee13]

Alijah Green wrote...

corporal doody wrote...

i love them both...the AA much more so. Back when, they were the artillery you wanted....but alas...they are outmoded when compared to the Ex-Cerberus Vanguard, Drell Adept, Asari Justicar, and especially the N7 Fury in terms of quick BOOM-BOOM (aka BE) and Death by Adept (DBA)...rather Death by Biotic (DBB).

warp and throw set-ups take too long...with warp only being able to hit a single target per cast...and 50% of the time the badguy dodges it...so cooldown...retoss and hope it lands. But with powers that cant jump or hit multiple targets, quicker powers, and  better weapons... the baddie is long dead before the much faster throw is tossed.

and yeah...the Asari Adept still has the stasis thing....but WHO doesnt automatically go after the thing stasised?

and yeah....a AA and HE should be fine when teamed another biotic....but how often in PUGS do you see a well coordinated pair of randoms doing the BE thing? it is uncommon to rare imho.  Then you still have to contend with the "individuals" that think it is funny to kill the baddie with the warp effect.

it is a sad day indeed when the once mighty (but still beloved) Asari Adept is last on the scoreboard when facing cerberus or the reapers in a gold match with team of only biotics.


I miss you awesome Asari Adept  (and to a lesser extent Human Sentinel). Will I ever see you again?

/sigh:(


EDIT...i neglected to mention overload, energy drain, and disruptor ammo SCREWING them up too

your doing it wrong OP, 
overload, energy drain, and disruptor ammo doesn't SCREW anything them up. you need to double up (throw) to get your BE.

Some people don't know that something like Energy Drain doesn't remove the primer.  I only recently found this out from a friend who read it on these forums.  Up until that point, I always thought Salarians were my worst enemy with their heavy use of Energy Drain, but that was because someone told me Energy Drain cancels out something like Reave.  I know now that Energy Drain only masks Reave briefly, and the biotic has to be a little more patient when going for the Biotic Explosion.

So, then I thought Salarians were just a misunderstood friend...until last night when I had two of them seemingly working against me on purpose by Energy Draining everything that stepped into my Annihilation Field.  I marvelled at how many Biotic Explosions I was not getting in close-quarter combat, when I needed them most.

[Fortack]

JackieLee13 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

If your team is good - everyone has a similar score.

This kind of generalization isn't valid.  When I was first doing white/geth/gold runs, I was with a team that included a player who knew his job was to be the Salarian Engineer bait.  He stayed behind the counter most of the time, throwing Energy Drains and bullets around when he could, but his job was to keep the decoy going, and he did his job very well.  His score often stayed in the 20k range, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a valuable member of the team.

I also remember another game of all biotics with myself as the Justicar.  I Reaved every enemy I saw, and the two ex-Cerb guys Smashed everything, and the other char (don't remember who it was) applied whatever detonator as well.  The three of them ended up with scores in the 80k range, and I ended up with 160k.  Does that mean I did way more than everyone else on the team?  No (even though I joked around that I did).    But me having such a higher score had to do with who the game was awarding the kills to, and that ended up being me most of the time for whatever reason.

Score doesn't *always* matter when it pertains to how good your team is.  I think a better generalization would be - if you succeeded, that means your *team* is good.    And AA's can fit just fine in a team-oriented squad.

A Salarian Engineer who only deploys his decoy in a FBW Geth farming match is a horrible player. He obviously didn't use ED much and must have been a terrible shot. If you can't shoot you are a poor player, anyone who can shoot will be (close to) topping the scoreboard and a great contributor to the team effort b/c (s)he kills sh-t - which is what matters most. Spamming Smash or whatever power only is equally bad.

If you have to rely on your teammates to do well you are a poor player too. Every single character in this game can be a death machine on their own if, and only if, they use all available means which means both powers and weapons. Air Quotes is completely right in saying that a good team makes it irrelevant who or what anyone is playing. Everyone will have more or less the same score in the end.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Fortack wrote...

A Salarian Engineer who only deploys his decoy in a FBW Geth farming match is a horrible player. He obviously didn't use ED much and must have been a terrible shot. If you can't shoot you are a poor player, anyone who can shoot will be (close to) topping the scoreboard and a great contributor to the team effort b/c (s)he kills sh-t - which is what matters most. Spamming Smash or whatever power only is equally bad.

If you have to rely on your teammates to do well you are a poor player too. Every single character in this game can be a death machine on their own if, and only if, they use all available means which means both powers and weapons. Air Quotes is completely right in saying that a good team makes it irrelevant who or what anyone is playing. Everyone will have more or less the same score in the end.

 

A lot of people who top the scoreboards suck as players. They deliberately kill targets primed for explosions, won't stop shooting to res anyone, won't participate in hacking objectives, pizza delivery, escorts, ect.

Repeat after me. Spamming weapons does not make you are more skilled player than spamming powers.

There are overpowered shooty classes with overpowered guns who will usually top the scoreboards.

Weapons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caster Powers.  But not everyone wants to be a weapon spammer.

[Fortack]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

A lot of people who top the scoreboards suck as players. They deliberately kill targets primed for explosions, won't stop shooting to res anyone, won't participate in hacking objectives, pizza delivery, escorts, ect.

Killing targets is what this game is all about. Saying someone sucks b/c they kill something you wanted to kill is silly. You should be happy the target is death and if that bothers you learn to kill things faster yourself. Ignoring objectives has nothing to do with this discussion which is about the AA / HSen being "outclassed".

Repeat after me. Spamming weapons does not make you are more skilled player than spamming powers.

How does one spam weapons?

There are overpowered shooty classes with overpowered guns who will usually top the scoreboards.

Weapons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caster Powers.  But not everyone wants to be a weapon spammer.

Those "Overpowered" weapons are available to everyone. If you don't use weapons that's your problem not the game's. If you don't like to shoot things I have no idea why you're even playing ME anyway, since shooting has been an indispensable part of all 3 games.

[Hackulator]

OP is actually talking about score, and not effectiveness, so this post is pretty meaningless.

As for Warp/Throw, there are plenty of units which can't dodge, BE off of them. Or open with a throw to force the dodge. As soon as bosses show up, Warp/Throw owns.

[Star fury]

Fortack wrote...
Those "Overpowered" weapons are available to everyone. If you don't use weapons that's your problem not the game's. If you don't like to shoot things I have no idea why you're even playing ME anyway, since shooting has been an indispensable part of all 3 games.

Oh and why play with HS at all? So everyone must use GI with KrysaePiranha. If you don't use GI, why play ME anyway? Interesting logic and completely missing the point.  

Modifié par Star fury, 17 août 2012 - 07:51 .

[KalilKareem]

CitizenThom wrote...

edit: and yes, Furys can work from a distance, but not as effectively as the Asari Adept or Human Sentinel.

How is a fury less effective than a human sentinel on long distances?

[rmccowen]

KalilKareem wrote...

CitizenThom wrote...

edit: and yes, Furys can work from a distance, but not as effectively as the Asari Adept or Human Sentinel.

How is a fury less effective than a human sentinel on long distances?

There's no Detonate evolution for Dark Channel.

[KiraTsukasa]

When it comes down to building adepts, you need to decide whether you want high power damage or biotic explosions. If you build for biotic explosions, it doesn't matter what each individual power damage is, only the rank of the powers being used, plus any combo modifiers. For the warp/throw combo, for example, you'll want to take Detonate>Expose (this may or may not affect damage of biotic explosions, I'm not entirely sure)>Recharge for warp and Area (this makes it so that if it hits anything near the target, even if they dodge, it will still connect)>Detonate>Recharge (though Force/Damage can be taken as well since throw's cooldown is so small as it is) for throw. Combined with the rank 4 power/weight evolution in the Training tree and light weapons (personally, I use Phalanx and Locust), and cooldown gear/consumables if you have them, this ensures that you can dish out your primer and detonator as fast as possible, and if you happen to miss, then you will have minimal time to wait before trying again.

[JackieLee13]

Fortack wrote...


A Salarian Engineer who only deploys his decoy in a FBW Geth farming match is a horrible player. He obviously didn't use ED much and must have been a terrible shot. If you can't shoot you are a poor player, anyone who can shoot will be (close to) topping the scoreboard and a great contributor to the team effort b/c (s)he kills sh-t - which is what matters most. Spamming Smash or whatever power only is equally bad.

If you have to rely on your teammates to do well you are a poor player too. Every single character in this game can be a death machine on their own if, and only if, they use all available means which means both powers and weapons. Air Quotes is completely right in saying that a good team makes it irrelevant who or what anyone is playing. Everyone will have more or less the same score in the end.

If everyone is only shooting stuff, then yeah, I suppose everyone will be close in score.  But that's not what ME3 is about at all.  The Salarian Engineer did his job just fine since he distracted the enemies like he was asked to do.  Maybe he's not the best player ever, but you can't label him "horrible" without knowing anything about him other than the brief paragraph I used to make a point about how the scoring doesn't matter, so having similar scores or vastly different scores doesn't matter.  And my point still stands.

Fortack wrote...

Those "Overpowered" weapons are available to everyone. If you don't use weapons that's your problem not the game's. If you don't like to shoot things I have no idea why you're even playing ME anyway, since shooting has been an indispensable part of all 3 games.

Those overpowered weapons are NOT available to everyone.  Some people have good luck with the ludicrous RNG system, others do not.  It IS the game's problem when a player can't seem to get decent upgrades to good guns.  And why use a crappy gun?  What's the point?

It sounds like you think this whole game is about shooting.  If that were the case, then why introduce CQC characters like the Fury and the Shadow?  Maybe shooting was more important in ME1 and ME2, but in ME3 with the introduction of combos and stuff, that has become a bigger part of the series than merely pulling a trigger.  To you simply shooting stuff all day every day may be fun, but to others it's not.  Some people's primary weapon is powers, not guns.

I believe the point of ME3 single player is to enjoy a story;  the point of ME3 multiplayer is to kill stuff (with or without squadmates).  It matters less how the enemies die than simply the fact that they are dead.  If you're interested in topping the scroreboard, which may be what the OP was interested in with his disappointment in a char like the AA, that's probably going to limit you in how you play.  If you're more interested in *winning* (Charlie Sheen style), then the characters, even AA and HS, can be played in a lot of different ways, like offensive, supportive, or team combo-ative.  Being a useful member of a team, even if there's not much shooting involved, is important;  not the score.

Modifié par JackieLee13, 17 août 2012 - 08:20 .