182 réponses à ce sujet

[CivvieWarrior20]

I'm confused as to why people call for nerfs on weapons/abilities/etc.

If this were a competative game (i.e. PvP) then yes balance issues are commen.

But this is a co-operative game, where the groups success is more important than individual successes.

So what if the guy with "insert gun name here" scored higher than you, maybe he's better at the game than you.

So what if the girl with "insert power name here" scored higher than you, maybe you'll score higher than someone else in the next game.

Please, someone explain the reason for people calling for nerfs.....

[RGFrog]

Ego

[Spirit Keeper]

Because some peoples' lives are meaningless unless they have something to complain about? Seriously I do not understand it either.

[CivvieWarrior20]

Lathrim wrote...

*sighs*

Balance is important to add longetivity to a game. If every single weapon, character and power in the game has it's own uses, the game will be played for a longer amount of time as there is more variety. Then there's the challenge. Why have Gold and/or Platinum if it is easy when the correct weapon/character is used? It should be hard no matter what you use.

Doesn't that fall to the developers to make the content challenging not reducing the effectiveness of equipment/abilities?

[ABjerre]

I've tried asking this question too, but no clear answer was given, and it quickly derailed into a flame war.

I am still curious though...

[LiarasShield]

because everything seems to need to be rebalanced or actually having powerful stuff in a co op game is a no no I mean I could understand this concept more if mass effect was was a call of duty shooter but it isn't and never was so this seems foreign to me

[L-train32]

Lathrim wrote...

*sighs*

Balance is important to add longetivity to a game. If every single weapon, character and power in the game has it's own uses, the game will be played for a longer amount of time as there is more variety. Then there's the challenge. Why have Gold and/or Platinum if it is easy when the correct weapon/character is used? It should be hard no matter what you use.

Then why not buff everything to match the "OP" weapons and characters? Simple.

It would remove the challenge from the higher difficulties. You'd fix that by buffing the enemies accordingly. Okay... that is a massive undertaking. Buffing 70~80% of the weapons/characters so they match the most powerful ones and then buffing enemies so it's not an easy-peasy game would require manpower the balance team does not possess.

<_

[Imp of the Perverse]

Even single player games need balance. Overcoming the challenge that a game puts forward using the tools at your disposal is a lot of fun. If one weapon or play style trivializes things, it gets rid of that. Yes, you can choose to avoid that overpowered element, but then you're competing against your own challenge and not the game's. In a role playing game it's especially immersion breaking, since you're acting out of character.

In a co-op game it can be the same, you want to see if you can put together a combination that works for a given difficulty. If there's a definitive answer (use the gun with 60% higher dps than anything else, duh) it becomes a lot less interesting. Plus you can't control what your teammates use. If you're playing gold for the challenge, then land in a game where everybody else is using overpowered stuff, you're forced into easy mode.

[LiarasShield]

Resistance 2 had awesome co op game and had good weapons or powers that you unlocked further down the level progression and they never need to rebalance a million things Like I've seen in this game

[KalilKareem]

The question is easily reversed: Why do you care if a weapon or power is nerfed?

[LeandroBraz]

Lathrim wrote...

*sighs*

Balance is important to add longetivity to a game. If every single weapon, character and power in the game has it's own uses, the game will be played for a longer amount of time as there is more variety. Then there's the challenge. Why have Gold and/or Platinum if it is easy when the correct weapon/character is used? It should be hard no matter what you use.

Then why not buff everything to match the "OP" weapons and characters? Simple.

It would remove the challenge from the higher difficulties. You'd fix that by buffing the enemies accordingly. Okay... that is a massive undertaking. Buffing 70~80% of the weapons/characters so they match the most powerful ones and then buffing enemies so it's not an easy-peasy game would require manpower the balance team does not possess.

This. Sometimes, nerf is the only way to achieve balance (actually something more close to balance. We will never achieve perfect balance).

 Don't forget that we have a lot more buffed guns than nerfed guns, but the buffs pass unnoticed, since it happen in weapons almost nobody was using, and most players won't try it after the buff. Nerfs receive a lot of attention, since it happen in weapons a lot of people is using, so they feel the difference and start calling it "useless".

[KalilKareem]

L-train32 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

*sighs*

Balance is important to add longetivity to a game. If every single weapon, character and power in the game has it's own uses, the game will be played for a longer amount of time as there is more variety. Then there's the challenge. Why have Gold and/or Platinum if it is easy when the correct weapon/character is used? It should be hard no matter what you use.

Then why not buff everything to match the "OP" weapons and characters? Simple.

It would remove the challenge from the higher difficulties. You'd fix that by buffing the enemies accordingly. Okay... that is a massive undertaking. Buffing 70~80% of the weapons/characters so they match the most powerful ones and then buffing enemies so it's not an easy-peasy game would require manpower the balance team does not possess.

<_

Yes, logical and clear arguments can be annoying at times, in particuar when you have none of your own. 

[MoirDing]

Because if you see 99% of the players using a Quarian Infiltrator specced 6/6/6/6/0 using a Avenger X because that's the best (yes, I'm pulling a random spec/kit out of my ass), it would get really boring, really fast.
People actually like playing a biotic/tech/whatever, but if it performs like an ass, they will stop playing for not being usefull.

Also, using the kryase as an example, what if it was buffed moar? People with that abomination of a gun would have 95% of the kills, leaving those without it standing there, just waiting for extraction because it's no use at all to even draw a gun, leeching until the 700th PSP will give them Kryase I.

Or they just quit.

[K_Os2]

a thing called homogenization. You saw it with pre-nerf weapons.

[LiarasShield]

The fact that you have to rebalance things so much every other week in a co op game or not be able to have decent or powerful abilties or gear from level progression in a co op game is madness

There have been alot of decent or good co op games that never needed weekly rebalances or destroy the point of level progression

[LeandroBraz]

Lathrim wrote...

L-train32 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

*sighs*

Balance is important to add longetivity to a game. If every single weapon, character and power in the game has it's own uses, the game will be played for a longer amount of time as there is more variety. Then there's the challenge. Why have Gold and/or Platinum if it is easy when the correct weapon/character is used? It should be hard no matter what you use.

Then why not buff everything to match the "OP" weapons and characters? Simple.

It would remove the challenge from the higher difficulties. You'd fix that by buffing the enemies accordingly. Okay... that is a massive undertaking. Buffing 70~80% of the weapons/characters so they match the most powerful ones and then buffing enemies so it's not an easy-peasy game would require manpower the balance team does not possess.

<_

I can say the same of you... disagrees with me, says I annoy you and yet you don't explain why.

Why he should explain? it's so obvious. You annoy him because it's evident that you are right, while he don't want you to be right, which is f*ck annoying. Some peoples just can't handle the truth 

[tamfa]

Imp of the Perverse wrote...

Even single player games need balance. Overcoming the challenge that a game puts forward using the tools at your disposal is a lot of fun. If one weapon or play style trivializes things, it gets rid of that. Yes, you can choose to avoid that overpowered element, but then you're competing against your own challenge and not the game's. In a role playing game it's especially immersion breaking, since you're acting out of character.

In a co-op game it can be the same, you want to see if you can put together a combination that works for a given difficulty. If there's a definitive answer (use the gun with 60% higher dps than anything else, duh) it becomes a lot less interesting. Plus you can't control what your teammates use. If you're playing gold for the challenge, then land in a game where everybody else is using overpowered stuff, you're forced into easy mode.

This would be true if we all had super awesome net connections or if the code were written with consideration of how the internet works (lag).  The last 3 days I've been glad I've had "OP weapons/characters" to fall back on as about 90% of my matches have been so lagged any of my fragile characters would be dropping like flies. My ping times to google haven't really changed over the last few days. So I don't know what's up with the match making lately.

Want a challenge load your net connection with 100 torrents or something. Then see how hard it is to survive damage bursts, magically appearing enemies, magnetic instan kills, etc.

[Spirit Keeper]

Lathrim wrote...

*sighs*

Balance is important to add longetivity to a game. If every single weapon, character and power in the game has it's own uses, the game will be played for a longer amount of time as there is more variety. Then there's the challenge. Why have Gold and/or Platinum if it is easy when the correct weapon/character is used? It should be hard no matter what you use.

Then why not buff everything to match the "OP" weapons and characters? Simple.

It would remove the challenge from the higher difficulties. You'd fix that by buffing the enemies accordingly. Okay... that is a massive undertaking. Buffing 70~80% of the weapons/characters so they match the most powerful ones and then buffing enemies so it's not an easy-peasy game would require manpower the balance team does not possess.

Balance is important, yes. Nerfing everything to pea shooter levels is not necessary. A good, coordinated team will most likely survive any challenge but just because some weapons are more powerful than others doesn't mean they should all be nerfed to hell and back just people some people can't enjoy themselves unless they are holding a weapon that might as well be firing blanks.

Edit: Besides Gold and Platinum are already a challange, just because some people can complete it with little problem does not mean everyone can. So if you can, good for you but that does not mean enything is OP.

Edit 2: Not to mention that not everyone has great internet. Some people need stronger weapons if they want to even dream of being any use to the team. Furthermore, there are weapon tiers for a reason 'rare', 'ultra rare'. It's there for a reason.

Modifié par SovereignSRV, 16 août 2012 - 02:11 .

[LiarasShield]

I think alot of people who think the co op for this needs to be rebalanced all the time have either never played other co op games or believe that because its singeplayer is rpg that the co op obviouslly needs endless rebalancing

[OuterRim]

KalilKareem wrote...

The question is easily reversed: Why do you care if a weapon or power is nerfed?

having every gun balanced is ridicuous. What is the ponit of the rarity (same can be said of classes as some are harder to unlock then others). Right now, most of the UR's in the game arne't as good as manu UC's - and that should not be the case. Balancing within weapon class is one thing, but across rarities? There is no need for that BS. Might as well give everyone a peashooter and call it a day.

Modifié par OuterRim, 16 août 2012 - 02:11 .

[L-train32]

KalilKareem wrote...

L-train32 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

<_

Yes, logical and clear arguments can be annoying at times, in particuar when you have none of your own. 

I'm not gonna even try to explain because u people will just come up with more unreasonable arguments. All I'll say is that nerfing takes away fun from the game. It's definitely more fun succeeding than failing. That should be obvious.

[LiarasShield]

Again the people who always demand constant rebalances have not played very many co op games