182 réponses à ce sujet

[Holy-Hamster]

Quarian_Lover wrote...

Most of the nerfers are US citizens, which tell us a lot about the little big ego eagerness.

Seriously?

/facedesk

Modifié par Holy-Hamster, 16 août 2012 - 03:33 .

[CivvieWarrior20]

Thing is, the whole idea behind the gear is progression. Day 1 N7 1 Level 1...you have a Avenger 1 and a Pistol (forgot the name) 1. No mods, no class upgrades,no ammo upgrades. The first few matches are difficult (but not impossible). With time and a few upgrades, the Bronze missions become easy. Now you step into the Silver arena. Again armed with some upgrade weapons and a few starter mods, Silver is difficult (but not impossible). After a few matches you start getting into the better guns/mods/classes/etc....and so on and so on.

The bigger and badder guns (especially their X versions) are not meant for farming the crap out of Bronze missions, they are meant for taking on Gold/Platinum missions. Crying for Nerfs because you saw a Lvl 20 N7 9000 with an X gun dripping in X mods destroy your Bronze mission does nothing for the natural progression of the content. Don't blame the gun, blame the maxed out uber gamer for ruining your Bronze mission.

[P51Mus7ang]

This topic has been beat to death, if you find a logical answer let us know......I am going through SP again....probably 10th time, I don`t recall anyone ever crying for a nerf to a SP weapon yest some abilities and weapons are more powerful in SP than MP....go figure

[LiarasShield]

P51Mus7ang wrote...

This topic has been beat to death, if you find a logical answer let us know......I am going through SP again....probably 10th time, I don`t recall anyone ever crying for a nerf to a SP weapon yest some abilities and weapons are more powerful in SP than MP....go figure

Well shepards the best hero in the galaxy they expect him or her to have the most powerful weapons or abilities because he or she is the best in his or her class

[Lunaticsmith]

Ice Cold J wrote...

If you don't like the game, don't play it. Don't demand it be changed just to satisfy YOUR own, singular wants.
Develop new tactics of your own. I'm SICK of having all my time playing this game and figuring out strategies, builds, and tactics to do well all to have them ruined by people complaining.
Play more, get better, then use your creds to buy these OP weapons yourself.

Why people shouldn't bring up their own opinions of the game? Wanting something changed in a game doesn't mean that you don't like it, just that there is a way to make it more enjoyable for you. Who would care about a game they don't like? And again why is it so horrible to give feedback about the game? Everyone can give out feedback here but everyone can talk only for themselves. Its not always "I WANT IT NOW" it can be also "I would like this better." 

[Tipsyfresh]

LiarasShield wrote...

Xerorei wrote...

So if they keep nerfing the guns and such for "balance" why do they keep making the enemies so much harder, it goes two ways, you can have powerful guns and powerful enemies, you keep making the enemies powerful and the guns less powerful and everyone is going to switch to biotics, then that will get nerfed and everyone quits.

The funny thing is it will be a dark day and a real powerful realization when the ones who demand endless rebalances only find empty lobbies or no one else to play with lol

Liarashields...PREACH!   Really. That's why we miraculously succeeded at this weekends OPeration. The numbers just weren't there but if bioware hadn't done some  then it'd be brutally obvious that they ruined the game with "balance" and whatnot (deadly rng, hoarde mode for years etc)
 

[Poison_Berrie]

Why?

Because some people hold the same opinion as the devs that weapons and classes should overall be viable.
All classes and powers should be viable to use on all difficulties and no one (or few) class should stand above all.
Likewise all weapons should have a function in the meta-game. There is very little use in creating dozens of weapons if in the end only a handful of those (of the Rare and Ultra-Rare) get constantly used because they stand so far above the others.
So when they use these weapons/classes/powers and find that they upset this balance, they might call for a nerf.

Other people see an overabundance of one character or weapon as boring or a sign that something might be OP and call for a nerf.

Again others believe that if a class and or weapon is outscoring them (and others) a lot (and by a lot) that something is OP. Some of these people might just call it OP after one time.

The possible reason why people would care enough to start such a thread are numerous as people are not of a singular mind. Just as people who's favorite color is blue, don't all hold that preference for the same reason.

I have a two questions for you, though.
1) Did you ask this question to confirm your own bias or could really not comprehend at least two reasons why someone would call for a nerf?
2) Why did you not use the search function to look for such a thread? (seriously am I the only one who actually looks to see if a thread is already created before making one)

Xerorei wrote...

So if they keep nerfing the guns and such for "balance" why do they keep making the enemies so much harder, it goes two ways, you can have powerful guns and powerful enemies, you keep making the enemies powerful and the guns less powerful and everyone is going to switch to biotics, then that will get nerfed and everyone quits.

Enemies are made harder when they are too easy. This is not a direct nerf of your guns, but bringing the enemy faction up to how the others fare.
There haven't been a lot buffs to enemies and most of those are simple buffs to enemy hitpoints. The extent of enemy buffing is only big in the minds of people.

[hudder92]

CivvieWarrior20 wrote...

Thing is, the whole idea behind the gear is progression. Day 1 N7 1 Level 1...you have a Avenger 1 and a Pistol (forgot the name) 1. No mods, no class upgrades,no ammo upgrades. The first few matches are difficult (but not impossible). With time and a few upgrades, the Bronze missions become easy. Now you step into the Silver arena. Again armed with some upgrade weapons and a few starter mods, Silver is difficult (but not impossible). After a few matches you start getting into the better guns/mods/classes/etc....and so on and so on.

The bigger and badder guns (especially their X versions) are not meant for farming the crap out of Bronze missions, they are meant for taking on Gold/Platinum missions. Crying for Nerfs because you saw a Lvl 20 N7 9000 with an X gun dripping in X mods destroy your Bronze mission does nothing for the natural progression of the content. Don't blame the gun, blame the maxed out uber gamer for ruining your Bronze mission.

I can't really tell for sure what side you are on by this post. But maybe if they wouldn't nerf all of the usable weapons, you wouldn't see Level X weapons in Bronze and Silver, those players would be playing Gold. I'm just saying.

[CivvieWarrior20]

LiarasShield wrote...

P51Mus7ang wrote...

This topic has been beat to death, if you find a logical answer let us know......I am going through SP again....probably 10th time, I don`t recall anyone ever crying for a nerf to a SP weapon yest some abilities and weapons are more powerful in SP than MP....go figure

Well shepards the best hero in the galaxy they expect him or her to have the most powerful weapons or abilities because he or she is the best in his or her class

But aren't we (the players) meant to be members of the new N7 Elite Special Forces bunch, and as such pretty bad hombres?

[CivvieWarrior20]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

I have a two questions for you, though.
1) Did you ask this question to confirm your own bias or could really not comprehend at least two reasons why someone would call for a nerf?
2) Why did you not use the search function to look for such a thread? (seriously am I the only one who actually looks to see if a thread is already created before making one)

1)  I thought this sort of thing only happened in competative play (such as the nightmare that is MMO PvP) and just wondered how this occured in co-operative play.
2)  If people only used threads that are already open there would be only 4 threads running. 

[Biotic_Warlock]

Balance...

Because a single wapon should not outclass another.

[LiarasShield]

Tipsyfresh wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Xerorei wrote...

So if they keep nerfing the guns and such for "balance" why do they keep making the enemies so much harder, it goes two ways, you can have powerful guns and powerful enemies, you keep making the enemies powerful and the guns less powerful and everyone is going to switch to biotics, then that will get nerfed and everyone quits.

The funny thing is it will be a dark day and a real powerful realization when the ones who demand endless rebalances only find empty lobbies or no one else to play with lol

Liarashields...PREACH!   Really. That's why we miraculously succeeded at this weekends OPeration. The numbers just weren't there but if bioware hadn't done some  then it'd be brutally obvious that they ruined the game with "balance" and whatnot (deadly rng, hoarde mode for years etc)
 

Trust me all them empty lobbies gonna be doing all the preaching for me lol

[Holy-Hamster]

hudder92 wrote...

CivvieWarrior20 wrote...

Thing is, the whole idea behind the gear is progression. Day 1 N7 1 Level 1...you have a Avenger 1 and a Pistol (forgot the name) 1. No mods, no class upgrades,no ammo upgrades. The first few matches are difficult (but not impossible). With time and a few upgrades, the Bronze missions become easy. Now you step into the Silver arena. Again armed with some upgrade weapons and a few starter mods, Silver is difficult (but not impossible). After a few matches you start getting into the better guns/mods/classes/etc....and so on and so on.

The bigger and badder guns (especially their X versions) are not meant for farming the crap out of Bronze missions, they are meant for taking on Gold/Platinum missions. Crying for Nerfs because you saw a Lvl 20 N7 9000 with an X gun dripping in X mods destroy your Bronze mission does nothing for the natural progression of the content. Don't blame the gun, blame the maxed out uber gamer for ruining your Bronze mission.

I can't really tell for sure what side you are on by this post. But maybe if they wouldn't nerf all of the usable weapons, you wouldn't see Level X weapons in Bronze and Silver, those players would be playing Gold. I'm just saying.

What? There's no way you can seriously believe that.....

Aside from the krysae, name me one weapon that isn't "usable" anymore after being nerfed? I dare you.  

[LiarasShield]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Balance...

Because a single wapon should not outclass another.

Then their is not point to getting better guns if better guns don't exist

Counter Arguement

[Imp of the Perverse]

hudder92 wrote...

CivvieWarrior20 wrote...

Thing is, the whole idea behind the gear is progression. Day 1 N7 1 Level 1...you have a Avenger 1 and a Pistol (forgot the name) 1. No mods, no class upgrades,no ammo upgrades. The first few matches are difficult (but not impossible). With time and a few upgrades, the Bronze missions become easy. Now you step into the Silver arena. Again armed with some upgrade weapons and a few starter mods, Silver is difficult (but not impossible). After a few matches you start getting into the better guns/mods/classes/etc....and so on and so on.

The bigger and badder guns (especially their X versions) are not meant for farming the crap out of Bronze missions, they are meant for taking on Gold/Platinum missions. Crying for Nerfs because you saw a Lvl 20 N7 9000 with an X gun dripping in X mods destroy your Bronze mission does nothing for the natural progression of the content. Don't blame the gun, blame the maxed out uber gamer for ruining your Bronze mission.

I can't really tell for sure what side you are on by this post. But maybe if they wouldn't nerf all of the usable weapons, you wouldn't see Level X weapons in Bronze and Silver, those players would be playing Gold. I'm just saying.

As far as progression goes, the weapons that have been hit hard by the nerf bat were both rares that severely outclassed ultrarares.

[The BLVD Knight]

Nerfs, buffs, balancing issues being addressed left and right...I love it. Seriously, it's all just a testament to all the mad scientists that the Mass Effect 3 MP community has spawned. So maybe it's not bioware dropping the ball constantly, but it's the community pushing the envelope with new builds, startegies and tactics. Personally I love it when I see an Asari adept in my lobby with a Claymore/Talon loadout and then drops 140K. Gonna nerf that? Nope because you can nerf innovation. And buffs are just placebo kids

[CapnManx]

CivvieWarrior20 wrote...

Thing is, the whole idea behind the gear is progression. Day 1 N7 1 Level 1...you have a Avenger 1 and a Pistol (forgot the name) 1. No mods, no class upgrades,no ammo upgrades. The first few matches are difficult (but not impossible). With time and a few upgrades, the Bronze missions become easy. Now you step into the Silver arena. Again armed with some upgrade weapons and a few starter mods, Silver is difficult (but not impossible). After a few matches you start getting into the better guns/mods/classes/etc....and so on and so on.

The bigger and badder guns (especially their X versions) are not meant for farming the crap out of Bronze missions, they are meant for taking on Gold/Platinum missions. Crying for Nerfs because you saw a Lvl 20 N7 9000 with an X gun dripping in X mods destroy your Bronze mission does nothing for the natural progression of the content. Don't blame the gun, blame the maxed out uber gamer for ruining your Bronze mission.

If it were that cut and dry, then Rares and Ultra Rares would be little better than improved version of guns we already have; picking up where the Mk X of the previous weapon in its class left off.  They aren't though.  Each gun is balanced differently.

There is, for example, no Rare or Ultra Rare equivalent to the Phaeston. 

The Phaeston is a lightweight, precision tool; it's accurate, has a decent capacity, and a good rate of fire.  After that?  The Revanent, Harrier, and Typhoon, are heavy.  The Revanent is wildly innacurate, the Harrier has very limited capacity, the Typhoon is unconventional in that it has to get up to speed for maximum effectiveness.  Then there's the Geth Pulse Rifle; which is in the same weight class (broadly speaking), but trades damage for rate of fire resulting in a weapon that is no better that the Phaeston (and could even be considered inferior to it, depending on your point of view).


So what do you do if you find that the Phaeston is the weapon that suits you best?  Stick to Silver forever?

With all the weapons balanced differently, yet still tiered by quality, we are left in a position where the weapons which work for a given individual may not be appropriate for all difficulty levels.  Sure, some people are good enough that they can get by with anything; but that's not everyone.

The only solutions to that are, balance fixes to level the playing field a bit; or enough new high quality weapons, that reflect the capabilities of lower quality weapons, to plug all the gaps in our armoury.

[seedubya85]

Because people want the game to get to the point where missiles do no damage to bosses, guns are insanely heavy with damage if about 10 to 21, I'm not sure why though, making the game more boring is the goal I think.

[Gethzilla-N7SP]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

The game SHOULD be balanced around silver / gold. Rares / Ultra-rares for gold and uncommon / rares for Silver. The game should not be balanced around bronze / platinum because those are the two extremes. One for the newer / average players and one for the really good players who want a harder challenge.

They've done a reasonably decent job of this.

Actually, I disagree with respect to this view that guns should be treated according to their applicability in each level of challenge of the game.

The weapons - all of them - should be recognized as available resources and applicable at all levels of difficulty and also for all players.

The problem is that guns have fixed attributes, and that would be correct to each level of difficulty, would be assigned a type of "modifier" that sets its attributes according to the challenge that the player they propose to deal with.

Thus, even if you fight against Cerberus in Bronze or Platinum, and even if the enemy has more shields / health and cause more damage, his gun still proportionally efficient.

This would have avoided the melancholy end of Krysae. In the Bronze it would be less powerful than the Platinum, but proportionately, it would be useful at all levels of difficulty. Today nobody uses this weapon, except in the hands of N7-Destroyer.

[Zero132132]

It has nothing to do with scoring well or scoring poorly. They're more frequently the elitist, if-you-can't-beat-Platinum-with-an-Avenger X-you-shouldn't-play-Platinum types. Basically, they don't like the idea of people enjoying the game if they're not good enough.

"If you're not good enough to beat Gold with a human soldier and an Avenger, there's a difficulty called 'Silver' that you can play, noob!" is more common of a retort than the **** people always claim on these threads. They're still ass holes that, whether they know it or not, want to ruin the fun of others, and every nerf will diminish the playerbase, so they're absolutely wrong about it adding longevity, but they aren't ****ty players.

[Holy-Hamster]

seedubya85 wrote...

Because people want the game to get to the point where missiles do no damage to bosses, guns are insanely heavy with damage if about 10 to 21, I'm not sure why though, making the game more boring is the goal I think.

Because people want the game to get to the point where every gun shoots missles and instantly kills everything (lol pre-nerf Krysae), I'm not sure why though, making the game more boring is the goal I think.

I can make ridiculous claims too.  

[AresKeith]

because some people are stuck on PvP mode, instead of actual balance

[Holy-Hamster]

UkranyannBR wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

The game SHOULD be balanced around silver / gold. Rares / Ultra-rares for gold and uncommon / rares for Silver. The game should not be balanced around bronze / platinum because those are the two extremes. One for the newer / average players and one for the really good players who want a harder challenge.

They've done a reasonably decent job of this.

Actually, I disagree with respect to this view that guns should be treated according to their applicability in each level of challenge of the game.

The weapons - all of them - should be recognized as available resources and applicable at all levels of difficulty and also for all players.

The problem is that guns have fixed attributes, and that would be correct to each level of difficulty, would be assigned a type of "modifier" that sets its attributes according to the challenge that the player they propose to deal with.

Thus, even if you fight against Cerberus in Bronze or Platinum, and even if the enemy has more shields / health and cause more damage, his gun still proportionally efficient.

This would have avoided the melancholy end of Krysae. In the Bronze it would be less powerful than the Platinum, but proportionately, it would be useful at all levels of difficulty. Today nobody uses this weapon, except in the hands of N7-Destroyer.

While I think your idea could work, it would become even more of a balancing nightmare and take forever to do right.  Will never happen.  

[Grogimus]

http://social.biowar.../index/13578324

[Imp of the Perverse]

UkranyannBR wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

The game SHOULD be balanced around silver / gold. Rares / Ultra-rares for gold and uncommon / rares for Silver. The game should not be balanced around bronze / platinum because those are the two extremes. One for the newer / average players and one for the really good players who want a harder challenge.

They've done a reasonably decent job of this.

Actually, I disagree with respect to this view that guns should be treated according to their applicability in each level of challenge of the game.

The weapons - all of them - should be recognized as available resources and applicable at all levels of difficulty and also for all players.

The problem is that guns have fixed attributes, and that would be correct to each level of difficulty, would be assigned a type of "modifier" that sets its attributes according to the challenge that the player they propose to deal with.

Thus, even if you fight against Cerberus in Bronze or Platinum, and even if the enemy has more shields / health and cause more damage, his gun still proportionally efficient.

This would have avoided the melancholy end of Krysae. In the Bronze it would be less powerful than the Platinum, but proportionately, it would be useful at all levels of difficulty. Today nobody uses this weapon, except in the hands of N7-Destroyer.

I'm not sure I follow this. You're saying weak weapons should be buffed on higher difficulties, and powerful weapons should be nerfed on lower difficulties. I see two issues. One is that it makes weapons of all rarities equivalent, which removes the incentive of unlocking the rarer weapons. Another is that it means weapons are less effective in bronze than in platinum. So in platinum the enemies have more health but your weapons do more damage. In bronze the enemies have less health but your weapons do less damage. That kind of counteracts the whole "multiple difficulties" aspect.