LiarasShield wrote...
Biotic_Warlock wrote...
Balance...
Because a single wapon should not outclass another.
Then their is not point to getting better guns if better guns don't exist
Counter Arguement
I mean within rarity tiers of course.
Why do people care for Nerfing?
Débuté par
CivvieWarrior20
, août 16 2012 01:47
#101
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:04
Biotic_Warlock
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I mean within rarity tiers of course.
Retour en haut
#102
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:11
all_thumbs
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For those of us that see ME3 MP as an extension of the SP RPG, the progression of weapons and gear is key. Take it away with balancing and you ruin it for us. Everything being equal would be boring as hell and reduce enjoyment and make us stop playing. Those that think everything should be virtually equal and viable on all difficulties are playing the wrong game.
In my opinion uncommon X should be about as powerful and useful as rare V within the same weapon class. Use of commons in higher level matches should be for those that like a challenge. Just because you are used to playing with something, doesn't mean you should keep using it when playing higher difficulties. Learn something new, display some %&*$ing adaptability.
In my opinion uncommon X should be about as powerful and useful as rare V within the same weapon class. Use of commons in higher level matches should be for those that like a challenge. Just because you are used to playing with something, doesn't mean you should keep using it when playing higher difficulties. Learn something new, display some %&*$ing adaptability.
#103
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:19
Ice Cold J
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Lunaticsmith wrote...
Ice Cold J wrote...
If you don't like the game, don't play it. Don't demand it be changed just to satisfy YOUR own, singular wants.
Develop new tactics of your own. I'm SICK of having all my time playing this game and figuring out strategies, builds, and tactics to do well all to have them ruined by people complaining.
Play more, get better, then use your creds to buy these OP weapons yourself.
Why people shouldn't bring up their own opinions of the game? Wanting something changed in a game doesn't mean that you don't like it, just that there is a way to make it more enjoyable for you. Who would care about a game they don't like? And again why is it so horrible to give feedback about the game? Everyone can give out feedback here but everyone can talk only for themselves. Its not always "I WANT IT NOW" it can be also "I would like this better."
There's a difference between voicing feedback and complaining and demanding balance changes. You are obviously in the former group while, sadly, there are enough in the latter to force EA/Bioware's hand in the matter.
#105
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:31
Ice Cold J
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nhcre8tv1 wrote...
Being god is boring.
I'll let you know when someone actually gets there.
#106
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:31
CapnManx
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Ice Cold J wrote...
Lunaticsmith wrote...
Ice Cold J wrote...
If you don't like the game, don't play it. Don't demand it be changed just to satisfy YOUR own, singular wants.
Develop new tactics of your own. I'm SICK of having all my time playing this game and figuring out strategies, builds, and tactics to do well all to have them ruined by people complaining.
Play more, get better, then use your creds to buy these OP weapons yourself.
Why people shouldn't bring up their own opinions of the game? Wanting something changed in a game doesn't mean that you don't like it, just that there is a way to make it more enjoyable for you. Who would care about a game they don't like? And again why is it so horrible to give feedback about the game? Everyone can give out feedback here but everyone can talk only for themselves. Its not always "I WANT IT NOW" it can be also "I would like this better."
There's a difference between voicing feedback and complaining and demanding balance changes. You are obviously in the former group while, sadly, there are enough in the latter to force EA/Bioware's hand in the matter.
BioWare's hand gets forced by nothing. All the community can do is draw BioWare's attention to something; it's up to them if and how to address it.
#107
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:32
Folgor
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@OP
there needs to be a level of Balance in the game, like you cannot have one weapon that is truly supreme over all others, However I do agree that sometimes the nerfs go too far and in a coop game the need for balance is less than a competitive one. What confuses me about the balance stuff is if you have stuff that is labeled "rare" and "ultra-rare" that stuff should be better than the rest. Now I do not think that these should be absurdly better, but better because of the rarity of said goods. I would be more supportive of a total balance if you could just buy guns like any other game, but because it's RNG and rarity really certain things should be more powerful.
so In short, yes things need to be balanced, but the balance needs to be built around how the game is played. (in this case RNG store, rarity, class skills, etc.)
im done
there needs to be a level of Balance in the game, like you cannot have one weapon that is truly supreme over all others, However I do agree that sometimes the nerfs go too far and in a coop game the need for balance is less than a competitive one. What confuses me about the balance stuff is if you have stuff that is labeled "rare" and "ultra-rare" that stuff should be better than the rest. Now I do not think that these should be absurdly better, but better because of the rarity of said goods. I would be more supportive of a total balance if you could just buy guns like any other game, but because it's RNG and rarity really certain things should be more powerful.
so In short, yes things need to be balanced, but the balance needs to be built around how the game is played. (in this case RNG store, rarity, class skills, etc.)
im done
#108
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:33
KnoxZone1
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Balance has made this game so much better. It feels like just two weeks ago that every gold/plat lobby was just Destroyers w/Typhoons and GI w/Piranhas. Seeing those classes in every match was just silly. Now you will see Vorcha, Krogan, and Asari running around in Platinum.
#109
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:34
Elecbender
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Its THIS thread again...
Why do you care? None of us have the "final say" in what gets changed.
Why do you care? None of us have the "final say" in what gets changed.
#110
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:36
Rokayt
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LiarasShield wrote...
Again the people who always demand constant rebalances have not played very many co op games
People don't demand balance changes in games that don't have them.
Surly, Dead Island players didn't say that SamB was overpowered and needed a nerf. However, there were four characters, and all of them fit their role rather well. The lack of variety (And the fact that dis stuff be randomly generated,) allowed roles to be filled without balance issues.
Surly, Killing Floor players never felt the SCAR needed a nerf. Limited ammo means something in a game where there are no magical ammo boxes, and there were enemies that it would be suicidal to attack with a scar. *No Mr. M4! Don't shoot the fleshpound, surely, you must realize its suicide.*
-- The Game Explicitly countered different playstyles. (That isn't Melee......)
Nothing blows you up for using the Kyrase?
4X ranger Pirhanners dont die for using their black tracers of DOOM.
This game, would kill you for using a certain weapon on a certain foe. Explosives on a Scrake? Yeah, Buddy, You Auuu deaaaddd. A FLESSSSHHHHHHPOOOOUUUNNND buuuuuudddeeeyyyy. That FaL/Hunting shotgun/MK23 no longer is going to look so hot. Gorefasts and Sirens? Tring to blow them up will result in your bombs getting disarmed, and them rushing into your no-explosion range.
- In fact, The only perk that had counters to every foe built into it was..... Drumroll..... The Berzerker.... Cause you were already dumb enough to run in and start hitting the thing with an axe. You don't need a nigh immune boss mob to remove yourself from the Genepool. (You need a medic to stay in the genepool.)
However. Mass Effect 3 is quite messed up balance wise. A large number of weapons do not fill their intended roles well, with guns of an identical weight filling their own roles FAR better. Tremendous numbers of weapons need buffs.
We have also had a large string of weapons that have trivialized massive numbers of roles. They got nerfed. (+1)
We should care about these weapons, since they ruin the experience for who play the game to actually PLAY THE GAME.
Players who are not RNG store addicts.
Players who enjoy playing, and rightfully so.
#111
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:37
Eriseley
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I want to enjoy the content of the game, same as you, same as the people who express that they want want URs and DLC "to mean something", same as in fact everyone on this forum. The common refrain is "if you don't like it, don't use it/care about it", yet no one applies this logic to themselves or follows its implications through for the person they are talking to. This topic exists, after all, because of decisions BioWare made which you don't like, not anybody on this forum.
#112
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:38
ME3 Fury
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Hate when people confuse balance with equality.
#113
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:38
The BLVD Knight
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AND besides, if you really want to drag you Preadator X into a platinum match...didn't they just release like 30 gear bonuses? Not to mention level IV bonuses? Neither are fool proof solutions(looking at you densified ammo as an uncommon). But it has to help. Not sure whatelse bioware has to do besides add a "create-a-weapon" station or something
#114
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:41
cuzIMgood
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It has nothing do do with score. Some people just like to see the game balanced promoting more variety. You may disagree but Bioware clearly does agree otherwise they wouldn't be doing weekly balance changes.
#115
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:41
Ice Cold J
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CapnManx wrote...
Ice Cold J wrote...
Lunaticsmith wrote...
Ice Cold J wrote...
If you don't like the game, don't play it. Don't demand it be changed just to satisfy YOUR own, singular wants.
Develop new tactics of your own. I'm SICK of having all my time playing this game and figuring out strategies, builds, and tactics to do well all to have them ruined by people complaining.
Play more, get better, then use your creds to buy these OP weapons yourself.
Why people shouldn't bring up their own opinions of the game? Wanting something changed in a game doesn't mean that you don't like it, just that there is a way to make it more enjoyable for you. Who would care about a game they don't like? And again why is it so horrible to give feedback about the game? Everyone can give out feedback here but everyone can talk only for themselves. Its not always "I WANT IT NOW" it can be also "I would like this better."
There's a difference between voicing feedback and complaining and demanding balance changes. You are obviously in the former group while, sadly, there are enough in the latter to force EA/Bioware's hand in the matter.
BioWare's hand gets forced by nothing. All the community can do is draw BioWare's attention to something; it's up to them if and how to address it.
Then why SOOOOOOOO many "balance updates" and changes?
#116
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:47
Taritu
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Why do some people find it interesting to have 3 out of 4 people in a lobby use the same weapon? Why do some people want to face-roll through the game?
#117
Posté 16 août 2012 - 05:54
ryoldschool
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Taritu wrote...
Why do some people find it interesting to have 3 out of 4 people in a lobby use the same weapon? Why do some people want to face-roll through the game?
Obviously Bioware does not want this - a given reason why Cloak was changed. It will be interesting to see what the make-up of weapons/classes is just before the next dlc, because right now anyone getting one of the new weapons/classes is trying them out all over the place.
#118
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:01
Pavs719
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nerfing is a load of bollocks, why they do it, is beyond me. I ask you in real wartime would they nerf weapons and missiles etc NO. I can understand now why multiplayer has bitten the dust and why there are no longer that many people in the lobby's, It is because of idiots asking for nerfs and for EA/bioware nerfing knowing you will spend more money for level IV ammo.
#119
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:04
iplay222
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Pavs719 wrote...
nerfing is a load of bollocks, why they do it, is beyond me. I ask you in real wartime would they nerf weapons and missiles etc NO. I can understand now why multiplayer has bitten the dust and why there are no longer that many people in the lobby's, It is because of idiots asking for nerfs and for EA/bioware nerfing knowing you will spend more money for level IV ammo.
People in this thread have given you multiple reasons as to why nerfs/buffs happen, you just refuse to listen.
This isn't a real war, it is game, never compare the two.
Tell me please, if they added a weapon that did 99999999999 damage and wiped all enemies of the map in an instant and won you the game, would that be fun to you?
#120
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:07
RGFrog
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They call for nerfing because they believe it will bring balance, enjoyment, and longevity to the game.
They are wrong on all accounts.
Peeps are going to use whatever is the best combination no matter what. Nerfing that just means they will do one of two things: quit or move on to the next best thing. So, you gain one change for those that stick around. That's not balance. Forcing others to play the way you want isn't balance it's ego based selfishness. It's the child crying to his mother about big brother getting the better water gun until mom takes it away. The child merely learns that he/she can cry to someone else rather than learning to figure out how to enjoy things within the paradigm or change it on their own aka entitlement.
Enjoyment doesn't increase except for the nerfer that now believes everything is right with the world. This usually means they are making more points, getting more kills, seeing fewer "noob" players using what they consider OP builds. They don't get enjoyment from the game per se, but enjoyment from everyone else playing poorly so they feel better about their skillz.
But, don't tell a nerfduck that there's nothing keeping them from using another weapon, class or build. There should be absolutely no responsibility laid in their laps for ensuring enjoyment. Nor should they be bothered to think that others enjoy something they don't. It's the game's fault and BW's responsibility to make sure they are having fun and damn the opinion of the other 95%.
As for longevity. That pretty much takes care of itself. Players take breaks or outright quit when what they enjoy is taken away. A nerfduck won't ever quit as what they enjoy is for things to be taken away from others at their behest. However, for the game to have true longevity, BW would have to come up with new classes, kits, ideas on a regular basis. Otherwise, it's all just a grind.
Nerfducks do not come to the forums and post that they've found something new or some new fun way to do something. BW doesn't have the manpower/right team to do that either. So, the only thing there is to do since it's all the same enemy and same ai all the time is grind for credits and gamble vs. the random car generator. Can't nerf that and it's pretty much killing the game as grinding gets really old fast.
As for the Krysae... yep that was an OP weapon from the start but didn't deserve the 'balance' it received. Just as the inf. and TC were severely cut up. Neither of those were balance. Balance involves minor changes to dial in the intended use or to fit something in it's intended niche. Something nerfducks will never understand. To them, balance is nuking something to uselessness so they can feel good about their opinions.
They are wrong on all accounts.
Peeps are going to use whatever is the best combination no matter what. Nerfing that just means they will do one of two things: quit or move on to the next best thing. So, you gain one change for those that stick around. That's not balance. Forcing others to play the way you want isn't balance it's ego based selfishness. It's the child crying to his mother about big brother getting the better water gun until mom takes it away. The child merely learns that he/she can cry to someone else rather than learning to figure out how to enjoy things within the paradigm or change it on their own aka entitlement.
Enjoyment doesn't increase except for the nerfer that now believes everything is right with the world. This usually means they are making more points, getting more kills, seeing fewer "noob" players using what they consider OP builds. They don't get enjoyment from the game per se, but enjoyment from everyone else playing poorly so they feel better about their skillz.
But, don't tell a nerfduck that there's nothing keeping them from using another weapon, class or build. There should be absolutely no responsibility laid in their laps for ensuring enjoyment. Nor should they be bothered to think that others enjoy something they don't. It's the game's fault and BW's responsibility to make sure they are having fun and damn the opinion of the other 95%.
As for longevity. That pretty much takes care of itself. Players take breaks or outright quit when what they enjoy is taken away. A nerfduck won't ever quit as what they enjoy is for things to be taken away from others at their behest. However, for the game to have true longevity, BW would have to come up with new classes, kits, ideas on a regular basis. Otherwise, it's all just a grind.
Nerfducks do not come to the forums and post that they've found something new or some new fun way to do something. BW doesn't have the manpower/right team to do that either. So, the only thing there is to do since it's all the same enemy and same ai all the time is grind for credits and gamble vs. the random car generator. Can't nerf that and it's pretty much killing the game as grinding gets really old fast.
As for the Krysae... yep that was an OP weapon from the start but didn't deserve the 'balance' it received. Just as the inf. and TC were severely cut up. Neither of those were balance. Balance involves minor changes to dial in the intended use or to fit something in it's intended niche. Something nerfducks will never understand. To them, balance is nuking something to uselessness so they can feel good about their opinions.
#121
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:08
CapnManx
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Ice Cold J wrote...
Then why SOOOOOOOO many "balance updates" and changes?
Because they don't believe they have gotten it right yet; if BioWare thought the balance was just right then their response to cries of 'OP' would be 'working as intended'.
#122
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:08
Legendaryred
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Because some people are new to multiplayer games, or the internet in general.
#123
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:09
seedubya85
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Holy-Hamster wrote...
seedubya85 wrote...
Because people want the game to get to the point where missiles do no damage to bosses, guns are insanely heavy with damage if about 10 to 21, I'm not sure why though, making the game more boring is the goal I think.
Because people want the game to get to the point where every gun shoots missles and instantly kills everything (lol pre-nerf Krysae), I'm not sure why though, making the game more boring is the goal I think.
I can make ridiculous claims too.
Guns and powers just get weaker, enemies get stronger, they take longer to kill and it gets a bit boring, I don't want OP weapons or powers, but I dont want under powered weapons that are useless either.
#124
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:13
KalilKareem
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Gais! I have a great idea! Instead of nerfing a gun 10% we can just buff all other guns by 10%! If the game gets to easy we can just buff enemy health by 10% to compensate!
#125
Posté 16 août 2012 - 06:17
BouncyFrag
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Because, unfortunately, the game is a single mode experience grind with a fickle store system that offers the only 'carrot' for you to play the game and people need to focus on something that can extend this experience further. I like ME3 mp a lot, but I don't think Bioware expected it to last this long and hadn't planned for expanding it further than being able to provide new maps/classes.
