88 réponses à ce sujet

[twincast]

thats1evildude wrote...

Rhys believes that Cole manipulated him into killing people.

Yeah, there's zero evidence in the text that that actually happened, but I guess Rhys has a need to feel like an accomplice at murder to attone for him not realising (and stopping) what Cole had been doing earlier than he did, so Lambert's ignorant ravings fell on fertile ground in that respect. Either that or David went a bit too far in the opposite direction of its ambiguity.

(That last sentece sounds a bit off, but it's way late and I'm way tired, so I'll just hope people understand what I mean and go to bed.)

[ladyofpayne]

Crazy and weak willed whiny man. And murderer. If he will be in my party I will kill him.

Modifié par ladyofpayne, 17 août 2012 - 08:11 .

[Dave of Canada]

Personally, I'm interested in Cole as a character because his potential for depth and exploration is great. However, there's great problems when you introduce the fact that he isn't even human and his character is highly... irregular, something I fear which only works in the setting of the novel.

My biggest problem stems from the fact that I doubt most individuals would keep him along once they figure out his true nature and I'd fear his character arc would be him just going bat-**** insane.

Those problems could be solved by pulling off an Anders and forcing him along with you and introducing him in critical moments if you throw him away, though that'd be highly annoying.

And I doubt he'd approve of any protagonist who'd side against Rhys.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 17 août 2012 - 08:16 .

[thats1evildude]

You'll always disagree with your companions about SOMETHING. The one exception is Dog.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 août 2012 - 05:01 .

[berelinde]

thats1evildude wrote...

You'll always disagree with your companions about SOMETHING. The one exception is Dog.

What about Ghast?

[thats1evildude]

A ghast companion has two priorities in life: fancy hats and eating people. If given the choice between eating people or not eating people, he will naturally pick the former option. Also, he will speak very strongly against any plan that involves him losing his fancy hat.

As the saying goes: any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 août 2012 - 05:13 .

[brushyourteeth]

thats1evildude wrote...

A ghast companion has two priorities in life: fancy hats and eating people. If given the choice between eating people or not eating people, he will naturally pick the former option. Also, he will speak very strongly against any plan that involves him losing his fancy hat.

As the saying goes: any plan where you lose your hat is a bad plan.

Fancy hats? Were they wearing them? Listen, all I remember about the MotA ghasts is that they looked like mutant majora's masks. Seriously. And if we have a ghast companion, I want one that looks like this:

data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBhQSEBMUEhISFBMWFRQWGBQWFRUXFRYYFRcYFBQVGBwXHSYeHBojGRQVHzAgIycpLCwsFR4xNTAqNSYrLCkBCQoKBQUFDQUFDSkYEhgpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKSkpKf/AABEIAIkAeAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAABBQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAwQFBgcCAf/EADwQAAEDAgMEBQkIAQUAAAAAAAEAAgMEERIhMQUGQVEiMmFxgQcTUpGxssHR8BQkNEJicnOh4RUjM0Px/8QAFAEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP/EABQRAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/ANxQhCAQvCbaprNtADTPt4IHRNtU1m2gB1c+3go2oqC45k93BNKirazrHw4oH0lYSb3PsXf+uNZ1zf3vUoP7RJL1Bgb6R1+u5KwbOa3N3SPN2iCz0tY2QXabj1H1JdVCTaoBtGC53ZopXZ205P8AtAPd1h38EE0hJxVDXaEX5cfUlEAhCEAhCEHhKazbQA0z7eCiztEuPSPyXhbx1Qdz1Bccye7gkkJnUbTa3IdJ3IfNB1W1QaCLm/6dUyoKY4sb2jDrd2vf/wCpQ0kkpvJZo5AZ/XelP9JGhc7DyQezbTF8MYL3dmi4FC+TOV1h6IS7pI4RbIdg1Kb/AGiSXqDA30jr9dyBw6SOIcB2DUpv9okl6gwN9I6/XcuqejjBN3B7hqSV1LtMXtGC93ZogVpqQM6RcS4Z4ibWTyDeQYg2xk7W6/5UWKF8mcrrD0Qn0FMGizRZBYYpw4ZHw4pRVKv2/FB1n3f6Lc3ePLxUlurtt1VE97gBhkwgam2FpzPPMoJtCEIKdKc11FUEdnsScjrlR1VHIHFzDcZdHu7EE5HWgnPLt4JRtO0HEA3PiLKDoqctJcT1rG3InM+1P4ZbIH6bVNexmRNzyGv+F22sBNjl28F2KNt8Qa2/MIIoUb3HE0WGoDsz/acOppJOu7C30QpBeht0DJ2ymEAZ5cb6pzDThos0WTPaG3YoLh5xO9BuZ8eXiqntffGV4Ib/ALbOTese93ysgtm0duRQjpOu70G5nx5eKqm0d6pZLhp823k09I97vlZQUU5dfKwXaBF8j3GwyF9ea0/yb/hpP5T7jFmy0jyan7tJ/MfcYgtyEIQUmquA4jM52Cg2b3wiUxSnzbhbN3UNxfXh4qwznNV/eXYkUzMT2DHcAPGTvXx8UE01wIBBBB0I0K9VC2Zsysp3j7O8yRBzcTNbAmxOE9l82q8z1DWNLnuDWjVxyAztn60CBb5uQuc7ou4Z5H6CkKeotofkmssTZG55g5gg/wBgrijpPN3F7gnJBI1m12xxl72k2tpxJyCqm0965ZLhp823k3rHvd8rKU3g/DH9zfaqcUHrnLhzAdV6vUCMwdkGr1owNz+rpReObfVAnDLiJyyWm+TUfdpP5j7jFm4WkeTUfdpP5j7jEFuQhCDPpIZIybdJv1wXFY4vhuAdRlrpqlmxyRu1xMv6vku6yUtbdoubjL26IFKEANGgJa32JGu2e2eN0T7hrxYkGx55epKxvuAeYB9a7a6xQZ9LRVVBI4U8hkjaeoRftzb8Wm6sm729AqQQ5hje0hpGoJPLiPFP9rQYhiDbm+dtbWSxpGEh2EYsjcZE20vzQNt4X/dnfub7VUCrdvE37uf3N9qqBQcTHolewHoBcuJLgLdHivZr6N1+CDmYuyDfWuomWFiuwuJb2y1QdrSfJv8AhpP5T7jFmMMNrkm5K03yaj7tJ/MfcYgtyEIQUaGJzMQJuL5dy7UhW7Le3Mi45j48kxLEDaor44y1r3taXkhuI2uRa4vpfMJdRm3t346pga8uBbctcOBOtwciMlWPM11B1T5+AcM3WHd1m+FwgudZK5rbtF88xbglHTgEAm10hsqu89DHLbDjbe172zIt/SXlpmvHSyPAoGW8H4c8sTfaqZOHaNVm3gppGQODXXaS3wz7dPBVttwLcbIEwwtbhv0ihkWDMnMrwQhvSc7NDHh5sRkM0HgnLj0RlxKVe8DVKX4AJF1OC659SDtrrrSvJv8AhpP5T7jFnlLSF7msaLucQALgZnQZ5LVN0NiPpoHNkLS5z8dm526LRa/E9FBOIQhAJlVbJY/MdE8x8QnqEFXqtlPZckXb6Q08eSZlllcpGBwIIuCCCOYORCzGsrJaSZ8RONrTkHa4dWkHuQTQFtLBeOZcEc8k0otsRym18Lj+V2XqOhT5zLIIDeCnlZA4A3bib4Z9uiq7I8GbjmVbN5vOeZdhzaSzwz/pVOOj4uNyg7dACbn1LvsAXuBTm6GzIp6gRzYrYS4AG2Ii1weOl9OSCDATSvrHRgENBbfpc1oe9Pk7L3iWkwNIaAYjkDbi06Akc9eaa7sbkGVznVUZaxt2+bdkXnje35RzGqCoRzBzQ5pyOYK1Dc3eb7RH5t5/3mDP9bdMXfz/AMrMNvbDds2qMbrmnku6N55cj2jIHwPFL0dY6GRskZs5puD8DzBQbahR2wttNqoRI3I6Obxa7iPkhBIoQhAKrb47svnLZIgC4Czmk2LhqLcLjPVWlCDKNk7pyzzFjmuja09NzhbD2C+rle9q7ILKf7u0OkjaLNJPTDRbDf0iNDzU4hBlFXvHFUU7mtuyQFt43aixztz+slWpdoYZA1wsD+ZWjylbtmGYVcLTgd/ygaNde2I8g6/r71VamNszBbvB5HkgduCs/k7qAKtzT+aNwHgQfYCqTsypvdj+s3LvA+IU9u9XCCqikcbNDukf0kEE/wB38EGyIXgN16gid593Y62ndDJkdWPtmx40cPYRxBKxdjZIJX004tIw2HIjhY8RbMHkt+UBvNuXT1tjIC2Vos2Vhs8cQORF+B/pBQt09rSQVLPNgvDyGOYPzAnUdo1v3oV23V3NFK5z3vEkmjXBtrN4m3pHivUFlQhCAQhCAQhCBKppmyMcx7Q5jgWuadCDkQsa23upNQyv6LnUxPRlGYAOmO3VI0N8srraknUdR37T7EGQUm5MtVF56GzXNNgTpJbl3aX4+Cm92NypJH4qlromsI6PF5B4fpy1V13b/CQ/t+JUmgEIQgEIQgEIQg//2Q==

But I agree with Dave of Canada - having Cole around will be... interesting, but difficult to implement. And you'd have to somehow make him more loyal to you than to Rhys if you plan to cross the mages. Unless he's actually now all-out demon and his plan is just to eat them, which would be difficult to team up with if you play pro-Chantry. Unless he tricks you, I guess. Like it's been said - lots of variables.

I'm sure they could make him work, but I imagine Cole more as an important NPC - someone we investigate for answers or a potential boss battle maybe.

[Reznore57]

The cool thing would be trouble going on in the Fade.
It seems like Thedas will known major issue related to magic.
So Cole being a link to some stuff going on in the fade would be nice.
A la Justice during Awakening , instead of the "I'm posessed deal " which we already encounter in two main companion.

Maybe something that could explain his current "condition."
The fact that he lost track of what he's supposed to be.

Modifié par Reznore57, 17 août 2012 - 07:20 .

[brushyourteeth]

Reznore57 wrote...

The cool thing would be trouble going on in the Fade.
It seems like Thedas will known major issue related to magic.
So Cole being a link to some stuff going on in the fade would be nice.
A la Justice during Awakening , instead of the "I'm posessed deal " which we already encounter in two main companion.

Maybe something that could explain his current "condition."
The fact that he lost track of what he's supposed to be.

Yeah, I agree that I hope he's not like Justice/Anders. Having him just be from the Fade would be much more interesting. But he has a physical body, so I'd like to know how that works. If it's the magic he uses or if he literally has the original Cole's body still.

You know, this makes me wonder what would happen if you tried to make Cole Tranquil? Not that I'd do it, but that I'm just curious what would happen.

BTW, Reznore57 - every time I see your name I think of this from Super Mario World: 

http://t2.gstatic.co...cm_hVR7yQVskt-U

[thats1evildude]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Fancy hats? Were they wearing them? Listen, all I remember about the MotA ghasts is that they looked like mutant majora's masks. Seriously. And if we have a ghast companion, I want one that looks like this:

Well, they generally wore masks or bandanas. However, "ghast hat" sounds funnier.

[Dave of Canada]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Just like Leliana and Wynne emphatically disapproved of desicrating the sacred ashes?

Seriously, why would that be a reason not to have Cole?

Different scenarios, though. Companions in DA:O tagged along with you for their own reasons and they'd leave / challenge you if you fought against their core beliefs, you could kick them out and not even have them involved with you.

Dragon Age 2's companions were mostly related to their conflict and you were forced to take them along despite disagreeing with everything they support, they were just there to ****** off the player with their presence. Their core beliefs didn't matter until the very end of the game where they finally offered you choices to ****** them off even further.

For fear of the Dragon Age 2 companion system, I'd imagine Cole being similar to Anders in regards to pro-Templar individuals and tagging along for no other reason than being forced to until the game dictates otherwise in the finale based off some arbitrary friendship/rivalry score.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 17 août 2012 - 08:13 .

[Reznore57]

I don't know why people think Cole is pro mage....If Rhys has been a templar , he would have been pro templar.
I think his loyalty lies where his heart is ...
He attacks Lambert because Lambert hurt Rhys and tried to break their friendship.

Though he's scared of templars because of "his " past , he liked Evangeline very much.

I doubt Cole would be the kind of character really interested in mages/templars problem.But I may be wrong.It's the impression i got from the book anyway.

@BrushYouTeeth : I used to play this games as a kid!It's Super Mario 3 , no?
I never noticed the name though lol.
Reznore is inspired by Trent Reznor from the band Nine Inch Nails , I was a big fan like ten years ago ...
But the mario reference might be cooler

[Dave of Canada]

My impression was that the demon/spirit isn't that interested in the affairs of politics, though the spirit/demon once thought it was Cole which would have obvious leanings. I mean, he kills mages out of sympathy to save them from Tranquility or execution.

[Reznore57]

I'm not denying that he had a history with templars , and it would be easier for him to sympathize with mages.
But It seemed to me that all his actions were driven by emotion s, and the affection he had for Rhys.
Like if he didn't meet Rhys , he would have never cared about the mage/templar conflict.

That why i doubt ,he may be a character like Anders , like foaming in the mouth every time he meet a templar.

[brushyourteeth]

Reznore57 wrote...

I'm not denying that he had a history with templars , and it would be easier for him to sympathize with mages.
But It seemed to me that all his actions were driven by emotion s, and the affection he had for Rhys.
Like if he didn't meet Rhys , he would have never cared about the mage/templar conflict.

That why i doubt ,he may be a character like Anders , like foaming in the mouth every time he meet a templar.

I have to agree here. I don't think he would have cared two-bits about Lambert except for the fact that he's the guy that threatened Rhys and humiliated Cole in front of him.

[thats1evildude]

Cole targeted people who wanted to die. It wasn't just mages; he was willing to kill that one girl at Adamant, who only wanted a merciful death instead of being torn apart by demons. It didn't seem to me he particularly cared about his victims' reasons for wanting to die.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 août 2012 - 10:21 .

[brushyourteeth]

My understanding was that Cole killed for no identifiable reason except that he would simply *know* when someone would be able to see him and then kill them. Like it was a sort of compulsion.

Later in the story he murders (or has Rhys murder - who knows) someone who's in some trouble, but that may have been coincidence. He doesn't seem to consistently kill out of pity. He doesn't even seem to be sure what his own reasons are - like there's little to no logic or critical thinking involved whatsoever.

At least that was my interpretation of things.

[Reznore57]

I think his killing habits may simply be a echo of the trauma of murdering his sister.
He killed the girl wanting to protect her , she was scared like most of his victims.
And it seems he lost memory of that for a long time , though he remember templars coming for him and being taken to the circle.

Now i don't know what he really is , something went to him when he was dying ...the question is what is this something?
A spirit or a demon ...perhaps ...i guess the boy was too traumatised and it just tainted whatever took possession of him..
We saw Justice changing because of Anders...Justice in Kristoff body felt the dead man lingering feelings.

The thing is there's also a kind of lost soul feeling to him ...i'm not even sure the real cole is 100 % dead and out of the picture.

Maybe it's something we've never heard of...hard to tell.There's a lot of conflicting stuff about him.
Anyway , I'm giving another shot at the book , maybe i should note down things .

[brushyourteeth]

Reznore57 wrote...

I think his killing habits may simply be a echo of the trauma of murdering his sister.
He killed the girl wanting to protect her , she was scared like most of his victims.
And it seems he lost memory of that for a long time , though he remember templars coming for him and being taken to the circle.

Now i don't know what he really is , something went to him when he was dying ...the question is what is this something?
A spirit or a demon ...perhaps ...i guess the boy was too traumatised and it just tainted whatever took possession of him..
We saw Justice changing because of Anders...Justice in Kristoff body felt the dead man lingering feelings.

The thing is there's also a kind of lost soul feeling to him ...i'm not even sure the real cole is 100 % dead and out of the picture.

Maybe it's something we've never heard of...hard to tell.There's a lot of conflicting stuff about him.
Anyway , I'm giving another shot at the book , maybe i should note down things .

Interesting! I hadn't thought about the connection to his sister! Though I really think he killed her completely by accident. He was just holding her too tight and she suffocated.

But Wynne was joined with a spirit and didn't corrupt it, even though I'd argue she's at least as angry a person as Anders was. I honestly think it was the Taint that changed Justice. It wasn't living and active in Kristoff but it was in him.

So if that happened to be true, maybe Cole could be possessed/joined with a spirit and not change it? Like with Wynne. But then the question is, if it's not a demon, what's that spirit doing with blood magic? Non-demon spirits don't seem to do that.

[Kidd]

Wynne had a Faith spirit and generally lived up to that virtue very natively. The spirit wouldn't change her much. Anders was irresponsible and filled with Justice made him "responsible" - ie he couldn't help but act. There's the big difference I think.

As for Cole living out repetitions of when he killed his sister, that was an amazing idea, Reznore! =) Cole is such a fascinating character ^^

Don't get why some people are worried about having him in their parties and stuff. He seems like the most loyal party member ever. Heck, most loyal person ever. As long as you're nice to him, he seems to be pretty much willing to risk his life for you. He's absolutely harmless in my eyes. Hmmm... if he does end up being a companion, I totally need to roll a self-insert character first in the game. Just to see if what I, personally, feel about him is accurate without already knowing what's coming xD "But... I was so sure you were harmless! Why are you knifing me! Damnit Cooooole!"

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 18 août 2012 - 12:08 .

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

"In the Epilogue, on the night when Lambert prepares for the Seekers and Templars to separate themselves from the Chantry, Cole comes to him while he's sleeping. He presses his knife against Lambert's neck and tells him
"There was a Cole. You forgot him in that cell, and I heard his cries when no one else would. I went to him, and held his hand in the darkness until it was over. When the templars found him, they erased everything to hide their shame and I was helpless to act." Remembering this seems to bring him sorrow. Finally, he commands Lambert to look at him, and we're left to assume that Lambert is murdered."

I think in the very beginning of the book that it is the real Cole that we are told about in the first chapter who prays to the Maker to die and so he does.   I think the real Cole did die in those dungeons, he was starved to death in my view.  The Cole at the end of the book, was someone who took on the persona of Cole and they became Cole in the book.  The very last few pages of the book shows this person (who we think kills Lambert) clearly states the person throughout the book did indeed know that the Templars allowed the real Cole to starve to death or they tortured the real Cole to death.  In my mind, the person who is inpersonating Cole is a warden, who was a prisoner of the Chantry.  My money is on the person at the end of the book with the scene with Lambert is actually my living warden(s).

The Chantry did infiltrate Vigil's Keep to get at Anders (This would be if you keep Anders as a warden).  Which was posted on DA2's offical website before DA2 was released as Anders short-story (pdf file) and how he came to allow himself and Justice to merge. I don't know if it is still on there or not in the character section.   Our living wardens do disappear and this is a possible explanation;  the Chantry got ahold of the Warden Commander of Ferelden.   If it is a Ferelden Warden, then you are indeed alive.  Only a person with somekind of authority could do something about the real Cole's death and if impersonator Cole in the scene with Lambert is our wardens, our warden would have the Divine's ear because of Leliana to gain justice for themselves and Cole.  

Yes, Lambert might have used the Litany of Andralla, but if you did the ritual with Morrigan this could explain the use of blood magic or another mage such as one of the Trevinter mages running around using blood magic to bend people to their will to create havoc.  Even if the warden is a female warden and if she is married to Alistair she still disappears.  Gaider himself said that Alistair didn't love his female/male warden or was he kidding?  Who better to get rid of that problem for the King of Ferelden than the Chantry and Leliana.  This would also work with Anora being Queen.  You being a human noble Couland and one who defeated the blight might be called upon to rule Ferelden if Anora doesn't remarry and produce an heir.  This also plays into the storyline in Kirkwall with the Warden's there.  They were on a mission and it was both or one of two things....hunting the wacko warden who wants to control Corypheus and also the Wardens could be looking for the Warden Commander of Ferelden.  Alistair was to vauge about the Warden Commander in DA2.  This also ties into the old order of Templars that Lambert wants to bring back.  I've always assumed the Wardens and Chantry would have bones to pick with on another once the Chantry tries to kill the Warden Commander over Anders regardless of what a player chooses to do in that quest. 

This can also play in what is happening with Alistair in the comics.  I do believe the Warden Commander of Ferelden if making Alistair King would come to the King's aid if Alistair and Ferelden is under threat from Trevinter and Orlais and even Qunari.  With no word on the whereabouts of the Ferelden Commander then it is a very real possibilty that  someone in the Chantry snatched the Warden Commander.   I've never played the Orleasian Warden yet in Awakening so someone else would have to address that scenerio.  Doesn't he disappear or is rumored to have returned to Orlais?  Also if you take Anders to meet with Alistair at Viscount's Keep, where those really Anders and Alistair.  Wait, hear me out.  Don't forget the mirror in the mages shop in Kirkwall!  With that mirror you can change your face with an Eluvian!

The Chantry could also be responsible for the talk in Ferelden during the first game about the wardens worshipping the Archdemons and the use of bloodmagic for the joining.  This also ties in with the Howes and Loghain both.  

This is who I think the character as Cole really is.  Just my take on it.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Reznore57 wrote...

I think his killing habits may simply be a echo of the trauma of murdering his sister.
He killed the girl wanting to protect her , she was scared like most of his victims.
And it seems he lost memory of that for a long time , though he remember templars coming for him and being taken to the circle.

Now i don't know what he really is , something went to him when he was dying ...the question is what is this something?
A spirit or a demon ...perhaps ...i guess the boy was too traumatised and it just tainted whatever took possession of him..
We saw Justice changing because of Anders...Justice in Kristoff body felt the dead man lingering feelings.

The thing is there's also a kind of lost soul feeling to him ...i'm not even sure the real cole is 100 % dead and out of the picture.

Maybe it's something we've never heard of...hard to tell.There's a lot of conflicting stuff about him.
Anyway , I'm giving another shot at the book , maybe i should note down things .

Once again this person who is impersonating the real Cole could be a warden, and due to torture, and abuse in the Spire's dungeons the images in his/her mind is all messed up.  How many times in the first game did the Warden have to kill people out of mercy with his/her murder knife? Several times and even in Awakenings this happened, and the same thing with Hawke, Aveline, and Wesley in the beginning of DA2.   Wardens do kill those with the taint out of mercy.  Fits Cole to a tee.   Sounds like the person who is impersonating the real Cole....blood magic has been used on them and their mind isn't right and this could be due to the taint if a warden.   With Rhys I think Blood magic was used on him to get him to kill people an it could have been the other female mage in the story who was his friend and his once lover.  She wanted freedom for the mages at any cost the same as Anders.

Edit.

 

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 18 août 2012 - 05:18 .

[Wrathion]

I'm not really for this novel becoming canon. But someone explained to me that these things happened but not always has portrayed in the books so...I'm sort of okay.

This is a conversation I cannot join because I haven't read Asunder but judging from what you've written ,I would really like for him to be a companion in DA3. It's story is so intersting, GIVE IT TO ME.