503 réponses à ce sujet

[Memnon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy would like to talk to you.

Again - give an example from those universes that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy ... 

Element Zero giving all Asari magic powers.  Another example are the Control and Destroy options.

Again - give an example from those universes that you specifically mention - Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy - that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy .

[Reorte]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy would like to talk to you.

Again - give an example from those universes that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy ... 

Element Zero giving all Asari magic powers.  Another example are the Control and Destroy options.

Asari powers are part of the early established rules that have been mentioned plenty of times before on this thread. I've not heard anyone deny that Control and Destroy are space magic, they just get less hate because they don't go as far in their implausible, irrational nonsense . Control in fact could simply be exploiting some weakness in the Reapers' software so may fall into "implausibly far-fetched" instead of "space magic". Destroy would do the same if it only affected the Reapers, having Reaper hardware and / or software affected in the geth and EDI is taking it a step too far beyond plausibility and into the space magic realm.

[Memnon]

JBPBRC wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy would like to talk to you.

Again - give an example from those universes that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy ... 

Q's powers in Trek pretty much are. I'm not quite sure how Trek managed to get away with it to be honest, other than it not being a key universe-shaking plot point.

That is exactly why. Typically Q was used to deliver some kind of big point on human nature and that despite how far humans have come, they're still in the little leagues. Trek never used Q to magically stop the Borg from invading the Federation, for instance.

Thanks JB - from those, Q was the only thing that I could think of that was near that level, but you hit on what my response was going to be. He wasn't used to magically solve their problems. Truth be told, I was never a fan of Q

[Blueprotoss]

Reorte wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
It doesn't matter if Q, the Force, normal magic, rampent robotic technolgy, more normal magic, more rampent robotic technolgy, and even more normal magic is involved.  Btw if you're talking about the magnitude of Synthes is then you also need to talk about Destroy and Control as well.

Of course - plenty of people thing the whole lot is a load of nonsense, it's just that Synthesis is orders of magnitude above the others even though any magic win button was going to result in a facepalm at best (I suppose Destroy could trigger some self -destruct mechanism, it's the way it takes out things other than the Reapers that make it a bigger common sense failure than it could be).

I would say Q did a better job then having a miracle to kill Reapers.

Reorte wrote...

Q's powers in Trek pretty much are. I'm not quite sure how Trek managed to get away with it to be honest, other than it not being a key universe-shaking plot point.

Same here while they're normally less reasonable then ME "fans".  In all seriousness, it seems that most of the Star Trek fans aren't surprised based on th sci-fi of old that they grew up on like most of the sci-fi fans grew up on.  I could see less lashing out on ME if more "fans" looked at more examples from the sci-fi genre.

Reorte wrote...

Asari powers are part of the early established rules that have been mentioned plenty of times before on this thread. I've not heard anyone deny that Control and Destroy are space magic, they just get less hate because they don't go as far in their implausible, irrational nonsense . Control in fact could simply be exploiting some weakness in the Reapers' software so may fall into "implausibly far-fetched" instead of "space magic". Destroy would do the same if it only affected the Reapers, having Reaper hardware and / or software affected in the geth and EDI is taking it a step too far beyond plausibility and into the space magic realm.

It doesn't need to be explained or established to be magic or not while thats not only biotic related.  Most of the people that I have encountered only mention or focus on Synthesis, which all 3 options aren't surprising like Luke destroying the Death Star with some Force use. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 août 2012 - 05:39 .

[Memnon]

Blueprotoss wrote...
It doesn't need to be explained or established to be magic or not while thats not only biotic related.  Most of the people that I have encountered only mention or focus on Synthesis, which all 3 options aren't surprising like Luke destroying the Death Star with some Force use. 

Just to be clear - your contention is that Luke destroying the Death Star with some assistance from the force is the same level of magnitude as the green beam altering organics and synthetics in the entire galaxy?

[Blueprotoss]

Stornskar wrote...

Again - give an example from those universes that you specifically mention - Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy - that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy .

Star Wars has the Force and the origin of the Sith.  Warhammer: 40K has the Chaos.  Too Human, Shhadowrun, and Deus Ex has technology and magic as the samething.  Final Fantasy has Jenova in FFVII, Sin in FFX, and the fel'Cie in FFXIII.  I love how you avoided John Carter and Flash Gordon.

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
It doesn't need to be explained or established to be magic or not while thats not only biotic related.  Most of the people that I have encountered only mention or focus on Synthesis, which all 3 options aren't surprising like Luke destroying the Death Star with some Force use. 

Just to be clear - your contention is that Luke destroying the Death Star with some assistance from the force is the same level of magnitude as the green beam altering organics and synthetics in the entire galaxy?

Using a power that you just noticed a couple days ago to destroy an undestroyble super base and weapon is a miracle in its self.  Either way you shouldn't be nippicking based on how you didn't specify an equal equalavent to Synthesis. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 août 2012 - 05:48 .

[Memnon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Again - give an example from those universes that you specifically mention - Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy - that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy .

Star Wars has the Force and the origin of the Sith.  Warhammer: 40K has the Chaos.  Too Human, Shhadowrun, and Deus Ex has technology and magic as the samething.  Final Fantasy has Jenova in FFVII, Sin in FFX, and the fel'Cie in FFXIII.  I love how you avoided John Carter and Flash Gordon.  

What in the hell are you talking about? A science fiction franchise establishes a theme, framework, and rules, and the story is told within those rules; we are arguing that Synthesis, in particular, widely diverges from the rules and framework established in the setting. I'm asking you to give me an analogy from those settings that you specifically mentioned that are on the same level of magnitdue as Synthesis. I'm NOT asking you to tell me what those frameworks and rules are ...

Modifié par Stornskar, 17 août 2012 - 05:48 .

[Blueprotoss]

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Again - give an example from those universes that you specifically mention - Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy - that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy .

Star Wars has the Force and the origin of the Sith.  Warhammer: 40K has the Chaos.  Too Human, Shhadowrun, and Deus Ex has technology and magic as the samething.  Final Fantasy has Jenova in FFVII, Sin in FFX, and the fel'Cie in FFXIII.  I love how you avoided John Carter and Flash Gordon.  

What in the hell are you talking about? A science fiction franchise establishes a theme, framework, and rules, and the story is told within those rules; we are arguing that Synthesis, in particular, widely diverges from the rules and framework established in the setting. I'm asking you to give me an analogy from those settings that you specifically mentioned that are on the level of magnitdue of Synthesis. I'm NOT asking you to tell me what those frameworks and rules are ...

You asked and you recieved while Fantasy isn't restricted to Lord of the Rings just like how Sci-Fi doesn't restrict Stargate.  You act as if Synthesis is a huge thing while its a small thing compared to a lot of magic use in the Sci-Fi genre as a whole. 

[Memnon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Again - give an example from those universes that you specifically mention - Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy - that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy .

Star Wars has the Force and the origin of the Sith.  Warhammer: 40K has the Chaos.  Too Human, Shhadowrun, and Deus Ex has technology and magic as the samething.  Final Fantasy has Jenova in FFVII, Sin in FFX, and the fel'Cie in FFXIII.  I love how you avoided John Carter and Flash Gordon.  

What in the hell are you talking about? A science fiction franchise establishes a theme, framework, and rules, and the story is told within those rules; we are arguing that Synthesis, in particular, widely diverges from the rules and framework established in the setting. I'm asking you to give me an analogy from those settings that you specifically mentioned that are on the level of magnitdue of Synthesis. I'm NOT asking you to tell me what those frameworks and rules are ...

You asked and you recieved while Fantasy isn't restricted to Lord of the Rings just like how Sci-Fi doesn't restrict Stargate.  You act as if Synthesis is a huge thing while its a small thing compared to a lot of magic use in the Sci-Fi genre as a whole. 

That is not what I asked at all - in fact, I've asked about 4 times for the same thing and you have yet to provide an answer ...

[Blueprotoss]

Sion1138 wrote...

Q for example was introduced in the VERY FIRST episode of TNG and from that moment on we had quite a few episodes dealing with his escapades.

Green beam "New DNA" was introduced in the last few minutes of Mass Effect, along with the entirety of the organic/synthetic conflict and all the other tripe. Last few minutes.

It is not nearly the same.

Synthesis was introduced by Saren in the beginning of ME1 and we all knew there would be a magical super weapon to kill the Reapers just like how Element Zero is the basis for magic in ME.

Sion1138 wrote...

Also on the side, Q was a fun character, unlike the Catalyst.

Yet thats all opinion and I only liked Q based on his actor not his character just like how I liked the Catalyst for his character not his voice. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 août 2012 - 05:57 .

[Blueprotoss]

Stornskar wrote...

That is not what I asked at all - in fact, I've asked about 4 times for the same thing and you have yet to provide an answer ...

Again you asked for examples and I gave them to you while its not up to me for you to pay attention.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 août 2012 - 05:55 .

[Memnon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Q for example was introduced in the VERY FIRST episode of TNG and from that moment on we had quite a few episodes dealing with his escapades.

Green beam "New DNA" was introduced in the last few minutes of Mass Effect, along with the entirety of the organic/synthetic conflict and all the other tripe. Last few minutes.

It is not nearly the same.

Synthesis was introduced by Saren in the beginning of ME1 and we all knew there would be a magical super weapon to kill the Reapers just like how Element Zero is the basis for magic in ME.

Wow, okay ... thanks, I think we're done here

[Ticonderoga117]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Synthesis was introduced by Saren in the beginning of ME1 and we all knew there would be a magical super weapon to kill the Reapers just like how Element Zero is the basis for magic in ME.

Uh, no.
Because that's stupid.

[Blueprotoss]

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Sion1138 wrote...

Q for example was introduced in the VERY FIRST episode of TNG and from that moment on we had quite a few episodes dealing with his escapades.

Green beam "New DNA" was introduced in the last few minutes of Mass Effect, along with the entirety of the organic/synthetic conflict and all the other tripe. Last few minutes.

It is not nearly the same.

Synthesis was introduced by Saren in the beginning of ME1 and we all knew there would be a magical super weapon to kill the Reapers just like how Element Zero is the basis for magic in ME.

Wow, okay ... thanks, I think we're done here

We were done when you only looked at the Catalyst.

[Blueprotoss]

Sion1138 wrote...

Oh, come on now. Pulling Saren on me, are you? He mentioned it once and then he killed himself. It was a footnote.

If it was only a footprint then Saren wouldn't have lead the Geth and started his synthetic changes in the beginning of ME1.

Sion1138 wrote... 

I'm not vehemently against the concept at all, but it just wasn't explored at all within the story.

Thats okay while Synthesis had a lot of background like Destroy and Control.

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Synthesis was introduced by Saren in the beginning of ME1 and we all knew there would be a magical super weapon to kill the Reapers just like how Element Zero is the basis for magic in ME.

Uh, no.
Because that's stupid.

How is that unless if you wanted a conventional victory.  It would be asking a conventional victory against Skynet, Cthulu, or general Extinction.

[ShepnTali]

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

Again - give an example from those universes that you specifically mention - Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer: 40K, Too Human, Shadowrun, Deus Ex, and Final Fantasy - that is on the level of the green beam altering DNA in the galaxy .

Star Wars has the Force and the origin of the Sith.  Warhammer: 40K has the Chaos.  Too Human, Shhadowrun, and Deus Ex has technology and magic as the samething.  Final Fantasy has Jenova in FFVII, Sin in FFX, and the fel'Cie in FFXIII.  I love how you avoided John Carter and Flash Gordon.  

What in the hell are you talking about? A science fiction franchise establishes a theme, framework, and rules, and the story is told within those rules; we are arguing that Synthesis, in particular, widely diverges from the rules and framework established in the setting. I'm asking you to give me an analogy from those settings that you specifically mentioned that are on the level of magnitdue of Synthesis. I'm NOT asking you to tell me what those frameworks and rules are ...

You asked and you recieved while Fantasy isn't restricted to Lord of the Rings just like how Sci-Fi doesn't restrict Stargate.  You act as if Synthesis is a huge thing while its a small thing compared to a lot of magic use in the Sci-Fi genre as a whole. 

That is not what I asked at all - in fact, I've asked about 4 times for the same thing and you have yet to provide an answer ...

You're wasting your time. This fella is notorious for this. 

[SackofCat]

If the writers say Dragon Age occurs in the future, does that make it science fiction?

Magic, blight, dwarves, elves, dragons, all of it either highly advanced technology or the result of highly (or sufficiently, if you will) advanced technology without any further explanation.

Maybe the old god kid (dark ritual was science) stumbles upon the Statue of Liberty.

Science fiction?

[Ticonderoga117]

Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that unless if you wanted a conventional victory.  It would be asking a conventional victory against Skynet, Cthulu, or general Extinction.

But wait, what's that? We already have beaten Skynet and Cthulu? You don't say? Well, it wasn't as impossible as you thought.

However, something better executed and made sense would also suffice. Sadly, the Crucible doesn't make sense. At all.

[Blueprotoss]

Sion1138 wrote...

How can you like a character you know most nothing about? The only exposition you get is at the very end. With some very skimpy dialogue.

The Reaper leader has always been around and everyone has their tastes like Harbinger.

Sion1138 wrote... 

Again, I'm not even against the Catalyst, if only it had been introduced EARLIER and had more exposition.

Thats okay while he was shown in the begining of ME3.

Sion1138 wrote... 

Plus, the way it's presented in the end is just terribly annoying. You did all this fighting and struggling for three damn games and then this thing appears out of nowhere and gives you three choices. Spouting it's eternal doctrine and... Just complete nonsense.

How is that when the Reapers outnumber you and have the better technolgy, which a miracle would be needed for a victory.

Sion1138 wrote... 

How can you like that? I just don't get it.

How do people like Harbinger because its personal taste.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 août 2012 - 06:11 .