503 réponses à ce sujet

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Star Wars is just as much sci-fi as Star Trek

Where is a technology explained in SW?
Find an episode where Data or Spock speak that does not have techno-babble.
What is the limitation of Hyper Drive vs Warp Drive?
There was no defined limitation within the movies 1-6. His own words were "It just didn't need to be about that." He was right.
Warp drive can be found in the Star Trek Bible, has defined limitation/behavior.
So did ME's FTL. That's why the relays were needed then, two dudes wrote: "and all the relays blew like popcorn" and were completely surprised when the audience pointed out "HEY!!! You left all the fleet and Citadel survivors to starve!!" Because the audience was mostly adults. Adults worry about things like "If I go to Japan, where will I stay so I can find beef since I don't eat sea food?"

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet those are red herrings because they're questioned that won't be answered anytime soon.

Whoa! Be careful there, Pal!
One of those two dudes is on public record saying "There will be no cliffhangers."

Blueprotoss wrote...
The problem here is that most of smal outrage is coming from the ending and some didn't like that magic appeared even when Element Zero has been arond since ME1. Its all opinion on the story and writing while its new that some people didn't like something specific.

Outrage was not small. If you say "small," you are in denial.
Consistently, any poll taken here has shown close to 90% of respondents think the ending was so out of place that it needed to be replaced. During the first month of release, it was higher than 90%.
Start a poll and test it.

Those were customers speaking.

[The Spamming Troll]

Blueprotoss wrote...
The problem here is that most of smal outrage is coming from the ending and some didn't like that magic appeared even when Element Zero has been arond since ME1.  Its all opinion on the story and writing while its new that some people didn't like something specific.

i think the opposite of what you wrote is true.

[Blueprotoss]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
The problem here is that most of smal outrage is coming from the ending and some didn't like that magic appeared even when Element Zero has been arond since ME1.  Its all opinion on the story and writing while its new that some people didn't like something specific.

i think the opposite of what you wrote is true.

Yet those are the facts not opinion.

[o Ventus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
and we also learn that human DNA doesn't combind with all of the other races which is what Synthesis did

Synthesis enhanced organic DNA with synthetic material.  Really not that big of a stretch from Reaper spikes turning corpses into cyborg zombies.

Wrong.

Dragons teeth infected the victim with Reaper nano....thingys (forgot the name, see Sanctuary) through direct physical interaction to turn them into husk state over a period of time.

Synthesis does this with a beam of light....instantly.....somehow.....

And that makes me wrong how?  Synthesis enhances organic DNA through mutation caused by an unidentified type of energy that's broadcast everywhere.  I'm not "wrong" in saying it's not much more outlandish than the Dragon's Teeth, it's my opinion, one you happen to disagree with.

What kind of energy can implant cybernetics into organic lifeforms (All organic lifeforms, in the entire galaxy, disregarding any and all biological, physiological, and psychological differences between different species) as well as give synthetics the ability to "understand"?

[ziyon conqueror]

As much as I like transhumanism in Synthesis, I believe there must be a better way to achieve it than Shepard sacrificing himself/herself. And the Reapers should die what they've done if you've analyzed the entire series.

[Blueprotoss]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

Where is a technology explained in SW?

So Luke and Obiwan never had a lightsaber talk about some of the basics after the Sand people attack then.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

Find an episode where Data or Spock speak that does not have techno-babble.
What is the limitation of Hyper Drive vs Warp Drive?
There was no defined limitation within the movies 1-6. His own words were "It just didn't need to be about that." He was right.
Warp drive can be found in the Star Trek Bible, has defined limitation/behavior.

Pure techno-babble isn't the right way to do something especially when a lot of episodes with dialogue causing more harm then good.  You also should remember that because there's a lot of techno-babble then that always plot holes in the general lore to appear.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

So did ME's FTL. That's why the relays were needed then, two dudes wrote: "and all the relays blew like popcorn" and were completely surprised when the audience pointed out "HEY!!! You left all the fleet and Citadel survivors to starve!!" Because the audience was mostly adults. Adults worry about things like "If I go to Japan, where will I stay so I can find beef since I don't eat sea food?"

Something doesn't need an explaination in an ecyclopedia or codex to make sense especially when the magic in ME is explaination is a magical mineral called Element Zero.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

Whoa! Be careful there, Pal!
One of those two dudes is on public record saying "There will be no cliffhangers."

I see you're changing the subject and are still using red herrings.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

Outrage was not small. If you say "small," you are in denial.

I'm not in denial at all while you must be to miss all the small uproars that have happened in the Gaming Indutsry espcially with the long list thats in 2012.  Btw if you followed Bioware then you would notice that small uproars appeared in every game after Baldur's Gate.

m2iCodeJockey wrote... 

Consistently, any poll taken here has shown close to 90% of respondents think the ending was so out of place that it needed to be replaced. During the first month of release, it was higher than 90%.
Start a poll and test it.

Yet this is a perfect example of a straw-mann because there are always a negative biased on offical forums because it attracts more complaining and insulting  then basic discussion.

m2iCodeJockey wrote...  

Those were customers speaking.

Most of the people got what they wanted while I'm surprised you don't want costum made movies, tv shows, comics, novels, music, and video games done for you when you pay money for something.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 août 2012 - 01:36 .

[Memnon]

o Ventus wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Dragons teeth infected the victim with Reaper nano....thingys (forgot the name, see Sanctuary) through direct physical interaction to turn them into husk state over a period of time.

Synthesis does this with a beam of light....instantly.....somehow.....

And that makes me wrong how?  Synthesis enhances organic DNA through mutation caused by an unidentified type of energy that's broadcast everywhere.  I'm not "wrong" in saying it's not much more outlandish than the Dragon's Teeth, it's my opinion, one you happen to disagree with.

What kind of energy can implant cybernetics into organic lifeforms (All organic lifeforms, in the entire galaxy, disregarding any and all biological, physiological, and psychological differences between different species) as well as give synthetics the ability to "understand"?

I'm with o Ventus here - I can accept that Synthesis itself is a possibility (though it's a stretch). What I can't accept is the method of delivery ...

[Blueprotoss]

ziyon conqueror wrote...

As much as I like transhumanism in Synthesis, I believe there must be a better way to achieve it than Shepard sacrificing himself/herself. And the Reapers should die what they've done if you've analyzed the entire series.

I'm not a fan of Synthesis while most of the time the host doesn't die and the goal throughout ME was to stop the Reapers, which that was acheived.

[Blueprotoss]

Stornskar wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Dragons teeth infected the victim with Reaper nano....thingys (forgot the name, see Sanctuary) through direct physical interaction to turn them into husk state over a period of time.

Synthesis does this with a beam of light....instantly.....somehow.....

And that makes me wrong how?  Synthesis enhances organic DNA through mutation caused by an unidentified type of energy that's broadcast everywhere.  I'm not "wrong" in saying it's not much more outlandish than the Dragon's Teeth, it's my opinion, one you happen to disagree with.

What kind of energy can implant cybernetics into organic lifeforms (All organic lifeforms, in the entire galaxy, disregarding any and all biological, physiological, and psychological differences between different species) as well as give synthetics the ability to "understand"?

I'm with o Ventus here - I can accept that Synthesis itself is a possibility (though it's a stretch). What I can't accept is the method of delivery ...

Reaper nano-machines is all you need which that has been mentioned from Reaper indoctrination.

[LiarasShield]

Space magic a ending man why would anybody have a problem with that think really really hard and you will probably find a solution to the question you're asking

Modifié par LiarasShield, 20 août 2012 - 01:41 .

[Blueprotoss]

LiarasShield wrote...

Space magic a ending man why would anybody have a problem with that think really really hard and you will probably find a solution to the question you're asking

Its all opinion here even when a lot of sci-fi has magic and magical based endings.

[Fixers0]

lol.

[Xamufam]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

To me the most "space magicy" thing about the ME trilogy is that we had to build the Crucible, but still don't know what it does until the Catalyst tells you. This means that all those scientists and engineers working on it CORRECTLY assembled something beyond their comprehension. It's as if people from two hundred years ago got the schematics to build a car, managed to succesfully make the car, but when asked what it does give you a blank stare.


Look, I get that they were trying to draw an analogy between the Manhattan Project and the Crucible, but the people working on the Manhattan Project knew they were making a bomb, if not exactly how that bomb would affect the environment when used. If they'd been like the Crucible makers they apparently wouldn't have even known they were building a bomb.


In other science fiction when a device or technology is used to advance the plot without there being sufficient in-story explanation for how it works that device is usually attributed to a mysterious third party (ancient aliens, evolved aliens, etc). This works better to suspend disbelief because it 's hard to swallow that anyone could make a complex device of any kind without some idea of how it works. If the Crucible's in the story it should have been built by the Protheans.


If I were to buy that the ME humans and aliens could build the Crucible, it'd have to be on the understanding that they have some understanding of how it works. So they know it can be used to shut down Reapers, destroy them, or turn people into cyborgs (lol). If that's the case why not just reverse engineer the destroy function of the device, make weapons based on that and give them to allied ships, and voila! An anti-Reaper weapon that takes out Reapers one at a time.

So true, it's not possible to build something without understanding the math & the physics (how to  utilize energy)
behind it.
And what kind a radiation does meld organic dna with raw material(lol)? I can answer that one, a magical handwave.
Everything that is possible in the universe can be explained with math

This is a example of a third party

[Xamufam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

1. mass effect is talky & techy science fiction, so it should have an explanation.
2. techno babble does not harm the game it improves it especially mass effect.


3. element zero does have an explanation so should everything else

Element Zero[/b] (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field,
raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A
positive current increases mass, a negative current decreases it. This
'mass effect' is used in countless ways, from generating artificial
gravity to manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is
most prominently used to enable faster-than-light space travel without causing time dilation. When humans discovered the Prothean ruins on Mars,
they also discovered refined element zero that the Protheans had left
behind. It enabled research into FTL ship drives before the Charon Relay was discovered.

Synthesis does not fit in there

"From very early on we wanted the science of the universe to be plausible. Obviously it's set in the
future so you have to make some leaps of faith but we didn't want it to be just magic in space."

- Mac Walters

5&6. you are in denial, this wasn't a small uproar it was the biggest in gaming history
Both ea & amazon took back copies do you think they would have bothered if it was small
Poll
474292 views
Endings suck
91%(67582 votes)
Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard.
6%(4343 votes)
Fine as it is.
2%(1645 votes)
social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

ME 3 = a contrivance

Writing tip: don't rely on contrivance or coincidence
It's like there were 2 different writing teams on me 1 & me 3. it almost ignorered me 1

7. Most didn't care how me 3 ended, they didn't care about the trilogy because they havn't played the earlier games

watch these before you answer:

www.youtube.com/watch   10 min
www.youtube.com/watch   39 min
www.youtube.com/watch    12 min
www.youtube.com/watch     from 2:55-4:40
  
"All Were Thematically Revolting". My Lit Professor's take on the Endings. (UPDATED)
An underlying problem with Synthesis is its need for headcanon contrivances

Modifié par Troxa, 20 août 2012 - 05:02 .

[StElmo]

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.

Get over it.

Get back to us when you learn about secondary belief.

[Blueprotoss]

Troxa wrote...

1. mass effect is talky & techy science fiction, so it should have an explanation.

Yet most revolve around imaginary minerals and technologies, which that doesn't help either way.

Troxa wrote... 

2. techno babble does not harm the game it improves it especially mass effect.

This is opinion.

Troxa wrote... 

3. element zero does have an explanation so should everything else

Element Zero[/b] (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field,
raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A
positive current increases mass, a negative current decreases it. This
'mass effect' is used in countless ways, from generating artificial
gravity to manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is
most prominently used to enable faster-than-light space travel without causing time dilation. When humans discovered the Prothean ruins on Mars,
they also discovered refined element zero that the Protheans had left
behind. It enabled research into FTL ship drives before the Charon Relay was discovered.

It doesn't matter if there's a codex entry or not becasue Element Zero is space magic.

 

Troxa wrote...  

Synthesis does not fit in there

How is that when that condicts whats established with Saren and the Reapers.

Troxa wrote...  

5&6. you are in denial, this wasn't a small uproar it was the biggest in gaming history
Both ea & amazon took back copies do you think they would have bothered if it was small

I guess you haven't played games in the 80s or 90s like ET.  Either way ME3 is still a small contraversy just like the other instances for this year.

Troxa wrote...  

Poll
474292 views
Endings suck
91%(67582 votes)
Endings are fine, we just want the Normandy strand on Earth or somewhere near Shepard.
6%(4343 votes)
Fine as it is.
2%(1645 votes)
social.bioware.com/633606/polls/28989/

ME 3 = a contrivance

Polls aren't evidence especially when you look at offical forums because most of the playerbase don't go onto them.

Troxa wrote...  

Writing tip: don't rely on contrivance or coincidence
It's like there were 2 different writing teams on me 1 & me 3. it almost ignorered me 1.

ME1, ME2, and ME3 had the same writing teams.

Troxa wrote...  

7. Most didn't care how me 3 ended, they didn't care about the trilogy because they havn't played the earlier games

watch these before you answer:

www.youtube.com/watch   10 min
www.youtube.com/watch   39 min
www.youtube.com/watch    12 min

Thats a lie while whatever makes you sleep at night.

Troxa wrote...  

"All Were Thematically Revolting". My Lit Professor's take on the Endings. (UPDATED)
An underlying problem with Synthesis is its need for headcanon contrivances

So your "source" is some that was picky enough to complain about opinion when he didn't create Me in the 1st place.  This is just the written form of an angry video and its closest comparison is what happened with Episodes 1 through 3 of Star Wars.  Haters gonna hate.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 août 2012 - 05:00 .

[Blueprotoss]

StElmo wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.

Get over it.

Get back to us when you learn about secondary belief.

John Charter and Flash Gordon want to talk to you.

[legion999]

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.

Get over it.

You fail. Hard.

[Memnon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Troxa wrote...  

5&6. you are in denial, this wasn't a small uproar it was the biggest in gaming history
Both ea & amazon took back copies do you think they would have bothered if it was small

I guess you haven't played games in the 80s or 90s like ET.  Either way ME3 is still a small contraversy just like the other instances for this year.

It's interesting you bring up ET, because that game was the cause for a massive loss in sales for Atari, and is regarded as the catalyst (see what I did there?) for the video game crash of the early 80s. I'm not suggesting ME3 would have a similar effect, just pointing out that when you use ET in the same discussion ... well, that's not exactly helping your cause there

Modifié par Stornskar, 20 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[Blueprotoss]

legion999 wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.

Get over it.

You fail. Hard.

If that person really failed then you would have an explaination attached to your comment.

[legion999]

Blueprotoss wrote...

legion999 wrote...

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.

Get over it.

You fail. Hard.

If that person really failed then you would have an explanation attached to your comment.

“Science fiction is space magic.", labelling an entire genre in such a way is... well stupid. Also there's a difference between something happening in a universe's law that we would regard as impossible and something happening in that same universe that would be considered impossible by that universe's laws.

[Blueprotoss]

legion999 wrote...

“Science fiction is space magic.", labelling an entire genre in such a way is... well stupid. Also there's a difference between something happening in a universe's law that we would regard as impossible and something happening in that same universe that would be considered impossible by that universe's laws.

How is that when there are examples everywhere in sci-fi that uses magic and apply to their unverses.  A couple examples can be found in John Charter, Flash Gordon, Star Trek, Star Wars, 2001: a Space Odyessy, Battlestar Gallactica, Stargate, Volton, Thundercats, Robotech, and Transformers while the list can go on and on. 

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
So Luke and Obiwan never had a lightsaber talk about some of the basics after the Sand people attack then.

No, actually. In the movies, they never discuss what's inside a saber hilt as far as I remember.
If I'm wrong, name a scene.

Blueprotoss wrote...
Pure techno-babble isn't the right way to do something especially when a lot of episodes with dialogue causing more harm then good. You also should remember that because there's a lot of techno-babble then that always plot holes in the general lore to appear.

We're saying the same thing: "Stick to the freakin' lore."
TNG did a fair to good job sticking to it's timeline and lore.
DS9, good but, not as well.
Voyager couldn't remember warp drive limitations. It was painful to watch sometimes.

Blueprotoss wrote...
Something doesn't need an explaination in an ecyclopedia or codex to make sense especially when the magic in ME is explaination is a magical mineral called Element Zero.

If you look back, you'll see that I said "Eezo could not exist in real space." I know that.
What I also said summed up as: "The final scene is not a good place to introduce new lore." It was WEIRD!!!

I see you're changing the subject and are still using red herrings.

If the endings mean what they appear, they are not liked.
If the ending is as "IT," it is a cliffhanger.

I'm not in denial at all while you must be to miss all the small uproars that have happened in the Gaming Indutsry espcially with the long list thats in 2012. Btw if you followed Bioware then you would notice that small uproars appeared in every game after Baldur's Gate.

I'm sure every product has it's objectors but, I broke "subject silence" to talk about ME as a whole and the reaction to it.

Yet this is a perfect example of a straw-mann because there are always a negative biased on offical forums because it attracts more complaining and insulting then basic discussion.

I'm not refuting any originally stated position. I did not make a straw man argument.

Most of the people got what they wanted while I'm surprised you don't want costum made movies, tv shows, comics, novels, music, and video games done for you when you pay money for something.

A Gallup Poll, is considered valid when there are 1000 respondents to represent 300M Americans.
In Troxa's cited/linked example alone, there as many as 73570 respondents representing a much smaller populous (higher accuracy from higher representation.) This suggests most consumers were not happy with the product.
I'm sure I only got to click once and not 73000 times...

[m2iCodeJockey]

Blueprotoss wrote...
So your "source" is some that was picky enough to complain about opinion when he didn't create Me in the 1st place.  This is just the written form of an angry video and its closest comparison is what happened with Episodes 1 through 3 of Star Wars.  Haters gonna hate.

Please show us a link to a poll, preferably on this site, that contradicts Troxa's and my own points.

[CalPal]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

You can;t explain the how things like synthesis works with the lore, therefore it's magic.
You can explain the vast majority of everything else in the universe, therefore it's not magic.

I might be a little late with the whole 'ME3 ending shenanigans', but I thought I might as well bring up this one news story that could actually help in defending the integrity of not just the Synthesis ending, but the Control as well (if anyone still complains about it).

http://www.extremete...o-a-single-gram

Direct quotes from the article:

"The work... basically treats DNA as just another digital storage device."
"To read the data stored on DNA, you simply sequence it... and convert each of the TGAC bases back into binary."

What this story seems to show is that DNA was never all that different from computer code in the first place.  In fact, it's theoretically an even MORE advanced form of computer code.  We saw this in ME3 as well, where Legion notes the Reaper upgrades in the Normandy, showing how the code looks more like a living cell than digital space.  In fact, we even saw this kind of thing in ME2 with Project Overlord, where David Archer was able to communicate with the Geth as an autistic person.

So what I think might have happened in Mass Effect 3's ending was that Shepard's DNA code was uploaded into the Crucible, destroying his body in the process - again, somewhat similar to what happened with Legion on Rannoch - and allowing him to either control the Reapers or simply send out some kind of signal or "energy" that allowed all life, be it synthetic or organic, to share a unique code of some sort that allows such different forms of life to interact with each other as if they were all organics.

It's a stretch and, honestly, I'm not really good with science, but I think this might actually be a sound possibility to explain and even justify the ME3 endings.  In fact, I would absolutely LOVE for future ME games to explore this idea of how DNA is advanced computer code.