Blueprotoss wrote... A survey is what you're looking for while there are still errors based on general negativaty and spamming.
Far as I've seen, polls here only allow a single vote to be cast per user unless you know other wise. Polls here, which do only allow a single vote, do show 60000+ say your opinion is minor out of 73000+ people. You still haven't rendered anything other than your opinion.
Again polls aren't accurate based on Internet rage and fan entitlement while there aren't more then 3 million votes. If polls weren't accurate as you think then George Bush Jr. wouldn't have been President and Mitt Romney wouldn't be the 2012 Presidental candidate for the Republicans. Here is something you should be looking for while it will be way accurate then those polls based on how its a survey.
Humans IRL have managed to store 700 petabits into a gram of human DNA. Combined with wireless energy transfer (mentioned in ME2), presto, we have transmission.
Thank you for agreeing with me. I'm fully convinced this isn't just a case of "space magic" but moreso something we've simply missed in events leading up to ME3's ending.
I saw that survey and its predecessor. When I looked, it was in the high 80's against. The predecessor was close to 91%.
Its more accurate then all of the polls done on here.
Have you read the report? It's not exactly a glowing defense of the endings - for example, a large majority of those polled wanted the Catalyst removed entirely. A majority of those polled also was unhappy about choices not making a difference, war assets having no effect, etc.
It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.
Get over it.
Science fiction is not space magic.
Science fiction[/b] is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, parallel universes, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas" ~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction
Science Fiction is based in REALITY. And, in situations like with the Mass Effect series, (up to 3 at least) was based on futuristic ideas that might be possible in the real world. It was NOT based on random waves of light solving the galaxies problems. It was not founded on space magic. Science Fiction is not space magic. Read Prey, Jurassic Park, or possibly even Brave New World. All Science Fictions. None involve space magic.
I saw that survey and its predecessor. When I looked, it was in the high 80's against. The predecessor was close to 91%.
Its more accurate then all of the polls done on here.
Have you read the report? It's not exactly a glowing defense of the endings - for example, a large majority of those polled wanted the Catalyst removed entirely. A majority of those polled also was unhappy about choices not making a difference, war assets having no effect, etc.
You just gave the answer why polls will always be inaccurate based on how all of those examples are personal nippicks, which in turn came from a few having way too high expectations.
Science fiction[/b] is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, parallel universes, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas" ~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction
Wikipedia is inaccurate while it contradicted the sci-fi gnere because it can happen in the past, present, and future.
Rex Fallout wrote...
Science Fiction is based in REALITY. And, in situations like with the Mass Effect series, (up to 3 at least) was based on futuristic ideas that might be possible in the real world. It was NOT based on random waves of light solving the galaxies problems. It was not founded on space magic. Science Fiction is not space magic. Read Prey, Jurassic Park, or possibly even Brave New World. All Science Fictions. None involve space magic.
Everything has a basis in reality while it varies from series to series and book to book in its own genre. If there was no magic involved then why do you have spiritual powers in Prey, what was the host for the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, and how didn't the people die from drug overdoses in Brave New World?
Isn't what we are doing right now space magic? I would love trying to explain the science involved an internet forum to someone from 100 years ago. Heck even 50 years ago debating space magic with people from other parts in the world on a machine would have been considered space magic.
yes, sci-fi is space magic. but typically if sci-fi is going to use space magic they tend to explain some of the rules of said space magic before dumping some unexplained garbage on you.
Synthesis for example is often refered to as "space magic", not because it's unrealistic within the laws of our real world. But because it's "unrealistic" even within it's own fictional universe.
And about the Eezo and the mass effect phenomena. It was explained, it had a "scientific" explanation. It didn't match real science, and would never work in the real world - but the developers made a conscious effort to make it plausible within the fictional context.
And most importantly Eezo and the mass effect phenomena was there from the start. You could choose to accept it in this story or not. If not you could just have moved on and never involved yourself with the story.
Synthesis on the other hand is thrown in in the last minute of the last game, and no efforts what so ever was made to explain it.
Synthesis for example is often refered to as "space magic", not because it's unrealistic within the laws of our real world. But because it's "unrealistic" even within it's own fictional universe.
And about the Eezo and the mass effect phenomena. It was explained, it had a "scientific" explanation. It didn't match real science, and would never work in the real world - but the developers made a conscious effort to make it plausible within the fictional context.
And most importantly Eezo and the mass effect phenomena was there from the start. You could choose to accept it in this story or not. If not you could just have moved on and never involved yourself with the story. Synthesis on the other hand is thrown in in the last minute of the last game, and no efforts what so ever was made to explain it.
Just because Synthesis isn't exampled in the codex causes a conflict with the laws in ME. Even when Element Zero is explained in the codex its still magic. I get what you're saying but sci-fi usually has magic in it whether its a strange power or extremely advanced technology.
Just because Synthesis isn't exampled in the codex causes a conflict with the laws in ME. Even when Element Zero is explained in the codex its still magic. I get what you're saying but sci-fi usually has magic in it whether its a strange power or extremely advanced technology.
Still at it I see. Well let's tackle this.
Remember how the Catalyst explains the Crucible as "little more a power source"? It describes the device as "crude".
So now, you tell me. How does a giant battery change everyone's genetic code?
A leap of logic is fine, but this is not a leap, this is like jumping over the Mariner Valley. It's a contrivance the likes of which I have not experienced in any piece of fiction, ever.
Just because Synthesis isn't exampled in the codex causes a conflict with the laws in ME. Even when Element Zero is explained in the codex its still magic. I get what you're saying but sci-fi usually has magic in it whether its a strange power or extremely advanced technology.
Still at it I see. Well let's tackle this.
Remember how the Catalyst explains the Crucible as "little more a power source"? It describes the device as "crude".
So now, you tell me. How does a giant battery change everyone's genetic code?
A leap of logic is fine, but this is not a leap, this is like jumping over the Mariner Valley. It's a contrivance the likes of which I have not experienced in any piece of fiction, ever.
Yet you assume that it can't be explained then it can't work even when looking at Control and Destroy along with Synthesis. Either way Element Zero is barely explained even when its a magical mineral that produces magical things like with biotics.
Science fiction[/b] is a genre of fiction dealing with imaginary but more or less plausible (or at least non-supernatural) content such as future settings, futuristic science and technology, space travel, parallel universes, aliens, and paranormal abilities. Exploring the consequences of scientific innovations is one purpose of science fiction, making it a "literature of ideas" ~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction
Wikipedia is inaccurate while it contradicted the sci-fi gnere because it can happen in the past, present, and future.
Rex Fallout wrote...
Science Fiction is based in REALITY. And, in situations like with the Mass Effect series, (up to 3 at least) was based on futuristic ideas that might be possible in the real world. It was NOT based on random waves of light solving the galaxies problems. It was not founded on space magic. Science Fiction is not space magic. Read Prey, Jurassic Park, or possibly even Brave New World. All Science Fictions. None involve space magic.
Everything has a basis in reality while it varies from series to series and book to book in its own genre. If there was no magic involved then why do you have spiritual powers in Prey, what was the host for the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, and how didn't the people die from drug overdoses in Brave New World?
But the science was always explained. No one had spiritual powers in prey, Ostrich eggs in Jurassic park? They aren't even hosts. They are explained. You remember the DNA strand explaining how everything was done? And finally, BNW said that people took only certain ammounts every day, ie- their DOSAGE. They never overdosed in the book. Plus normally it was pregnancy pills they were taking. Have you ever even read these books? Everything in science fiction is supposed to be believable, that it could happen at least within the realm of possibility for that universe. The rules had already been outlined in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and the huge amounts of lore built up between them. You cannot change the rules suddenly and expect no back lash from it. No true art afficianado is going to put up with that. If Bioware wants to consider their work art then they better as hell handle the criticism when it is 100% true. No amount of people attempting to hold up the endings will stop that. Plus I haven't even gone into how copy and paste the endings are from Deus Ex...
Some sources for you since you haven't read the books, all of which are currently in front of me: (this is only part of the video from the movie) The book references a similar means of collecting DNA from mosquitos, and using ostrich eggs as well. Brave New World, focuses mainly on the new drug, SOMA which makes the user happy and carefree. Everyone lives off of it, and gets regular dosages of it. If you would like exact pages, well then too bad. It's currently 1 in the morning here, and I have a level design class tomorrow morning. Prey talks repeatedly about technologies being developed, not anything super natural! It talks about the nano-bot spy drones, and never delves into anything spiritual at all. Unless you are talking about some spiritual side of human survival in which case... that is weird. Prey is by Michael Crichton. As is Jurassic Park, and finally Brave New World is by Alduous Huxley. If you had actually READ the books, maybe you would have understood how wrong you are.
Science Fiction is built on the believable premise of what COULD happen. Or- at the very least, it builds from what could happen in the universe it builds, as does all forms of story telling. You don't just create a universe and then break the rules you used to establish it. That is S**tty story telling, and deserves no defense. It's poor story telling period. Which is why Mass Effect 3's ending was so terrible, and is why so many people are STILL upset. To quote Tolkien: "What really happens is that the story-maker proves a successful 'sub-creator'. He makes a secondary world which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is true: It accords with the laws fo that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World again, looking at the little abortive Secondary World from the outside."
Just because Synthesis isn't exampled in the codex causes a conflict with the laws in ME. Even when Element Zero is explained in the codex its still magic. I get what you're saying but sci-fi usually has magic in it whether its a strange power or extremely advanced technology.
Still at it I see. Well let's tackle this.
Remember how the Catalyst explains the Crucible as "little more a power source"? It describes the device as "crude".
So now, you tell me. How does a giant battery change everyone's genetic code?
A leap of logic is fine, but this is not a leap, this is like jumping over the Mariner Valley. It's a contrivance the likes of which I have not experienced in any piece of fiction, ever.
Yet you assume that it can't be explained then it can't work even when looking at Control and Destroy along with Synthesis. Either way Element Zero is barely explained even when its a magical mineral that produces magical things like with biotics.
The problem is the fact that it shouldn't need to be explained AFTER the events take place. Not on that kind of level. What exactly happened is open for the future, but HOW it happened, how the lore was suddenly ripped open, and how on Earth a Battery. A FLUPPING BATTERY accomplished these things is ridiculous! If you have to come in after and attempt to patch up holes that shouldn't have been there to begin with you have already failed, the immersion of that universe was broken, and nothing can save it. You can't change the laws of your universe after they are written, you can't have Mass Effect 2 say, "The Normandy can't land on planets- that is why we have the shuttle" Then suddenly have an airdrop scene where Joker gets to Shepard in SECONDS and suddenly lands on Earth with no problem. You can't have characters acting OUT OF CHARACTER for no reason- in Table Tops this is referred to as METAGAMING. Characters using knowledge they shouldn't have to make decisions. No one would ever leave shepard behind but, whoopdeflupping do, suddenly IT'S OK GUYZ WE GOT AN ORDER. NOT LIKE WE HAVEN"T EVER IGNORED THOSE BEFORE! ESPECIALLY FOR SHEPARD! Element Zero was established in LORE FROM THE GET GO. IT was already explained. And the Catalyst runs circles around that lore and breaks it open himself! Bioware couldn't even be bothered to extend the ending to make more sense and change the Catalysts wording- because he calls the crucible a battery. That is all he calls it. How did the crucible do such things the lore had already dictated as impossible? The Mass Effect theory still holds that normally nothing travels faster than the speed of light, especially green light waves- so how did it suddenly mutate the galaxy in over a couple seconds? How did the Normandy escape it? Why did the normandy get hurt by it? Why doesn't control affect other synthetics other than the reapers given that destroy affects other synthetics? How does Green Space Magic mutate EVERY LIVING THING IN THE GALAXY? And better yet- HOW THE FLUP WOULD THAT CHANGE ANYTHING? People have long based things off of appearances. Black and White Human beings are the same species, yet they continue to fight. Their so called, "synthesis" still causes them to fight eachother. Why would the catalyst believe anything different for it's synthesis? Especially when it failed once before? And Finally, WHY DID HARBINGER STOP SHOOTING WHEN THE NORMANDY SHOWED UP? Did he want to let us have a final good bye with our love interest? WTF? IT makes no sense. Even if he wanted shepard to make it to the beam, why would he have risked almost killing him moments later? Why attack at all? Why not pretend that they didn't know Shepard was almost there? This makes little to no sense whatsoever. And I have no idea how any rational human being could defend such ridiculousness.
I'm not defending any of the available scenarios. Though destroy is much less of a stretch, electromagnetic wave fries Reapers, it's still a contrivance.
I do not say these things to antagonize anybody, nor do I bear any hostility towards Bioware. But it annoys me a bit when people defend something that the author so obviously pulled out of his butt in a few minutes time. I'm not asking for anything extraordinary, but do not respect this kind of inconsiderate and haphazard work.
It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.
Get over it.
This is actually incorrect. Space magic can only be used in litterature labeled Science Fantasy. The most Science fiction can get away with is incorrect science
Edit
Yes I know about the typo it's five in the morning give me a break
I'm not defending any of the available scenarios. Though destroy is much less of a stretch, electromagnetic wave fries Reapers, it's still a contrivance.
I do not say these things to antagonize anybody, nor do I bear any hostility towards Bioware. But it annoys me a bit when people defend something that the author so obviously pulled out of his butt in a few minutes time. I'm not asking for anything extraordinary, but do not respect this kind of incinsiderate and haphazard work.
My general response to "Space magic" has always been with disgust. AtreiyaN7(in a different thread) summed up my contempt with those people with "If someone is too lacking in imagination or science chops to come up with a decent hypothetical explanation and needs to be spoonfed one by BioWare, that's kind of not my problem, is it? "
In a universe where electrical impulses to a node in the body somehow makes a person levitate a group of people, the concept of a wave of energy that includes DNA altering nano-particles is somehow space magic and radically different from the fantastical explanations for whats happened in the story before. Well...
But the science was always explained. No one had spiritual powers in prey, Ostrich eggs in Jurassic park? They aren't even hosts. They are explained. You remember the DNA strand explaining how everything was done? And finally, BNW said that people took only certain ammounts every day, ie- their DOSAGE. They never overdosed in the book. Plus normally it was pregnancy pills they were taking. Have you ever even read these books? Everything in science fiction is supposed to be believable, that it could happen at least within the realm of possibility for that universe. The rules had already been outlined in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and the huge amounts of lore built up between them. You cannot change the rules suddenly and expect no back lash from it. No true art afficianado is going to put up with that. If Bioware wants to consider their work art then they better as hell handle the criticism when it is 100% true. No amount of people attempting to hold up the endings will stop that. Plus I haven't even gone into how copy and paste the endings are from Deus Ex...
Yet the science in sci-fi usualy contradicts real science like Element Zero in ME, ostrich eggs in Jurassic Park, and the level of robotics in Deus Ex.
Rex Fallout wrote...
Some sources for you since you haven't read the books, all of which are currently in front of me: (this is only part of the video from the movie) The book references a similar means of collecting DNA from mosquitos, and using ostrich eggs as well. Brave New World, focuses mainly on the new drug, SOMA which makes the user happy and carefree. Everyone lives off of it, and gets regular dosages of it. If you would like exact pages, well then too bad. It's currently 1 in the morning here, and I have a level design class tomorrow morning. Prey talks repeatedly about technologies being developed, not anything super natural! It talks about the nano-bot spy drones, and never delves into anything spiritual at all. Unless you are talking about some spiritual side of human survival in which case... that is weird. Prey is by Michael Crichton. As is Jurassic Park, and finally Brave New World is by Alduous Huxley. If you had actually READ the books, maybe you would have understood how wrong you are.
I already the "Brave New World" while drugs always has an overdose point and Prey is still about a Native American using the spiritual world to combat aliens, which both are magic
Rex Fallout wrote... .
Science Fiction is built on the believable premise of what COULD happen. Or- at the very least, it builds from what could happen in the universe it builds, as does all forms of story telling. You don't just create a universe and then break the rules you used to establish it. That is S**tty story telling, and deserves no defense. It's poor story telling period. Which is why Mass Effect 3's ending was so terrible, and is why so many people are STILL upset. To quote Tolkien: "What really happens is that the story-maker proves a successful 'sub-creator'. He makes a secondary world which your mind can enter. Inside it, what he relates is true: It accords with the laws fo that world. You therefore believe it, while you are, as it were, inside. The moment disbelief arises the spell is broken; the magic, or rather art, has failed. You are then out in the Primary World again, looking at the little abortive Secondary World from the outside."
I love it when some people abuse quotes especially when Tolkien really didn't care what people thought of his work and the Lord of the Ring series is mainly Fantasy not Sci-Fi.
The problem is the fact that it shouldn't need to be explained AFTER the events take place. Not on that kind of level. What exactly happened is open for the future, but HOW it happened, how the lore was suddenly ripped open, and how on Earth a Battery. A FLUPPING BATTERY accomplished these things is ridiculous! If you have to come in after and attempt to patch up holes that shouldn't have been there to begin with you have already failed, the immersion of that universe was broken, and nothing can save it. You can't change the laws of your universe after they are written, you can't have Mass Effect 2 say, "The Normandy can't land on planets- that is why we have the shuttle" Then suddenly have an airdrop scene where Joker gets to Shepard in SECONDS and suddenly lands on Earth with no problem. You can't have characters acting OUT OF CHARACTER for no reason- in Table Tops this is referred to as METAGAMING. Characters using knowledge they shouldn't have to make decisions. No one would ever leave shepard behind but, whoopdeflupping do, suddenly IT'S OK GUYZ WE GOT AN ORDER. NOT LIKE WE HAVEN"T EVER IGNORED THOSE BEFORE! ESPECIALLY FOR SHEPARD! Element Zero was established in LORE FROM THE GET GO. IT was already explained. And the Catalyst runs circles around that lore and breaks it open himself! Bioware couldn't even be bothered to extend the ending to make more sense and change the Catalysts wording- because he calls the crucible a battery. That is all he calls it. How did the crucible do such things the lore had already dictated as impossible? The Mass Effect theory still holds that normally nothing travels faster than the speed of light, especially green light waves- so how did it suddenly mutate the galaxy in over a couple seconds? How did the Normandy escape it? Why did the normandy get hurt by it? Why doesn't control affect other synthetics other than the reapers given that destroy affects other synthetics? How does Green Space Magic mutate EVERY LIVING THING IN THE GALAXY? And better yet- HOW THE FLUP WOULD THAT CHANGE ANYTHING? People have long based things off of appearances. Black and White Human beings are the same species, yet they continue to fight. Their so called, "synthesis" still causes them to fight eachother. Why would the catalyst believe anything different for it's synthesis? Especially when it failed once before? And Finally, WHY DID HARBINGER STOP SHOOTING WHEN THE NORMANDY SHOWED UP? Did he want to let us have a final good bye with our love interest? WTF? IT makes no sense. Even if he wanted shepard to make it to the beam, why would he have risked almost killing him moments later? Why attack at all? Why not pretend that they didn't know Shepard was almost there? This makes little to no sense whatsoever. And I have no idea how any rational human being could defend such ridiculousness.
Yet you assume that it can't be explained then it can't work even when looking at Control and Destroy along with Synthesis. Either way Element Zero is barely explained even when its a magical mineral that produces magical things like with biotics. All this nippicks are just nippicks while its the easier route to call something "out of charcter", "done last minute", or say "plot hole" based on not having the full story. ME is far from complete especially when most of the knowledge is from that current cycle while still a lack of Reapper and Prothean understanding. Either way we know a lot more then the current cycle and the previous cycle then the Reapers in general.
It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.
Get over it.
This is actually incorrect. Space magic can only be used in litterature labeled Science Fantasy. The most Science fiction can get away with is incorrect science
Edit
Yes I know about the typo it's five in the morning give me a break
If thats the case then the Princess of Mars aka John Charter, Flash Gordon, Star Trek, and Star Wars would never be called Sci-Fi. Magic is magic whether its in Sci-Fi or Fantasy.
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