503 réponses à ce sujet

[Chaotic-Fusion]

maaaze wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

And in another scene you have the galaxy map. How fast is the wave propagating there? All the scenes are for dramatic effect, they didn't really think it through. If the wave were travelling at subliminal speeds it would take more than 10 hours to reach the relay. To reach the other parts of the galaxy, since it's shown to propagate everywhere? Relays are relatively scarce. It would take decades, or centuries.

The crucible fires twice, it is not the same wave...

The second one (the one that goes from relay to relay) is FTL, the first one is not.

And the second way still manifests as light, right? Hence, light travelling faster than light.

It emits light...

Light is most likely just a byproduct of the energy. 

And it is shown to travel at the same speed as the wave. Otherwise by the time the wave would have reached the edge of the galaxy the light (that is exapnding light as seen on the galaxy map) still wouldn't have left the solar system. You know how we see lightning well before we hear the thunder? Because light and sound travel at dramatically different speed? The same should have applied here.

Dramatic presentation at the expense of good writing.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So the issue is to have enough friction to where Shepard doesn't splatter and to also have it low enough to where he doesn't burn up?

Do you think 83% is a reasonable balance between the two?

The way I explain that scene to myself is by assuming that the armor has a thermal protection system (we have those today for returning spacecraft) to avoid getting burned up during reentry, so every part of him survives. He strikes the surfaces of the planet, even if he splatters into many different parts, Cerberus can rebuilds him.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Rubios wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

And in another scene you have the galaxy map. How fast is the wave propagating there? All the scenes are for dramatic effect, they didn't really think it through. If the wave were travelling at subliminal speeds it would take more than 10 hours to reach the relay. To reach the other parts of the galaxy, since it's shown to propagate everywhere? Relays are relatively scarce. It would take decades, or centuries.

The crucible fires twice, it is not the same wave...

The second one (the one that goes from relay to relay) is FTL, the first one is not.

And the second way still manifests as light, right? Hence, light travelling faster than light.

Because as I explained before it is not light, it is crucible radiation so the electromagnetic spectrum is irrelevant 

Radiation is invisible, it can manifest as light. We clearly see the wave as emitting being composed of light. Assuming that the radiation travels faster than light, the light it emits clearly cannot. And it does.

[Reorte]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So the issue is to have enough friction to where Shepard doesn't splatter and to also have it low enough to where he doesn't burn up?

Do you think 83% is a reasonable balance between the two?

Not a clue, it depends upon other things such as the gravity of the planet (known), how fast he hits the atmosphere and at what angle (totally unknown), and how much protection his armour is capable of giving (totally unknown).

What was that sample return mission spacecraft who's parachute failed but it still came down intact enough to do the job?

[EnvyTB075]

Element Zero is a plot device introduced in the original game that defines the setting. Yes, technically it is space magic, however it is explained logically within the setting, which in itself requires a certain degree of suspension of belief. Otherwise, why bother playing it. Its an element that can reduce the weight of a spacecraft to virtually nil, allowing FTL travel. It makes sense within Mass Effect.

The Crucible during Synthesis changes the very fabric of all beings to bring about Utopia.....somehow, in the last 5 minutes of a 3 game plot. How you can compare the two equally is beyond me.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Rubios wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So the issue is to have enough friction to where Shepard doesn't splatter and to also have it low enough to where he doesn't burn up?

Do you think 83% is a reasonable balance between the two?

The way I explain that scene to myself is by assuming that the armor has a thermal protection system (we have those today for returning spacecraft) to avoid getting burned up during reentry, so every part of him survives. He strikes the surfaces of the planet, even if he splatters into many different parts, Cerberus can rebuilds him.

Mass Effect 1 disagrees with you.

How so?

[Mazebook]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

Rubios wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

And in another scene you have the galaxy map. How fast is the wave propagating there? All the scenes are for dramatic effect, they didn't really think it through. If the wave were travelling at subliminal speeds it would take more than 10 hours to reach the relay. To reach the other parts of the galaxy, since it's shown to propagate everywhere? Relays are relatively scarce. It would take decades, or centuries.

The crucible fires twice, it is not the same wave...

The second one (the one that goes from relay to relay) is FTL, the first one is not.

And the second way still manifests as light, right? Hence, light travelling faster than light.

It emits light...

Light is most likely just a byproduct of the energy. 

And it is shown to travel at the same speed as the wave. Otherwise by the time the wave would have reached the edge of the galaxy the light (that is exapnding light as seen on the galaxy map) still wouldn't have left the solar system. You know how we see lightning well before we hear the thunder? Because light and sound travel at dramatically different speed? The same should have applied here.

Dramatic presentation at the expense of good writing.

Thankfully dramatic presentation takes place before plausibilty... otherwise 1000 years would have gone by on earth till Shaperd would have come back. Time is not constant throughout the Galaxy...it depends on the distance.

look here : 

http://bigthink.com/ideas/37974 

but what i actually ment is that the wave is much faster than the light it emits.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

Reorte wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So the issue is to have enough friction to where Shepard doesn't splatter and to also have it low enough to where he doesn't burn up?

Do you think 83% is a reasonable balance between the two?

Not a clue, it depends upon other things such as the gravity of the planet (known), how fast he hits the atmosphere and at what angle (totally unknown), and how much protection his armour is capable of giving (totally unknown).

What was that sample return mission spacecraft who's parachute failed but it still came down intact enough to do the job?

The Genesis probe, I believe. It was severely damaged but they managed to recover quite a bit of data.

[Chaotic-Fusion]

maaaze wrote...

Thankfully dramatic presentation takes place before plausibilty... otherwise 1000 years would have gone by on earth till Shaperd would have come back. Time is not constant throughout the Galaxy...it depends on the distance.

look here :

http://bigthink.com/ideas/37974

but what i actually ment is that the wave is much faster than the light it emits.

1000 years until Shepard came back? I don't follow.

Relativity has very little to do with this. And it doesn't depend on the distance, but on the mass. It slows down next to object of an incredibly high mass. Although I do not understand your point

So the galaxy now has a beam of light propagating through it for the next 100-200.000 years? That's how long it would take.

[Mazebook]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Thankfully dramatic presentation takes place before plausibilty... otherwise 1000 years would have gone by on earth till Shaperd would have come back. Time is not constant throughout the Galaxy...it depends on the distance.

look here :

http://bigthink.com/ideas/37974

but what i actually ment is that the wave is much faster than the light it emits.

1000 years until Shepard came back? I don't follow.

Relativity has very little to do with this. And it doesn't depend on the distance, but on the mass. It slows down next to object of an incredibly high mass. Although I do not understand your point

So the galaxy now has a beam of light propagating through it for the next 100-200.000 years? That's how long it would take.

Yes , for every Day Shaperd is on the Normandy a much larger timespan would have gone by on earth. It would add up to many lifespans.

What I meant was that relativity does not factor into Mass Effects narrative because of the dramatic presentation.
The same with the energy wave.

and you are right distance does not factor in but speed and gravity...I meant gravity by saying distance.

So the galaxy now has a beam of light propagating through it for the next 100-200.000 years? That's how long it would take 

If Mass Effect were realistic...which is it not because nothing travels faster than the speed of light... that would be the case...i think.

Modifié par maaaze, 17 août 2012 - 01:35 .

[Geneaux486]

People tend to complain about "space magic" because they hold the endings to a higher standard of realism than the rest of the series.  The endings are no less magical than the idea of "cutting edge" tech bringing Shepard back from the dead, people being processed into gray genetic goop but having their minds left in tact, or pretty much anything at all about the Reapers. Mass Effect has always had some science fantasy elements to it, ME3 didn't change that formula. 

Modifié par Geneaux486, 17 août 2012 - 01:32 .

[UniqueName001]

I'd really like one of the defenders of the OP's position to answer me. Are you seriously trying to say that there is never a limit to what should be allowed in a science fiction story, just because of the genre? That anything and everything are to be con1sidered valid, just because the word "fiction" is attached?

Edit: Also, if the Reapers have this technology, what is the point of having Reapers?  They could just send an energy wave out to kill only advanced organic species.

Modifié par UniqueName001, 17 août 2012 - 01:33 .

[Chaotic-Fusion]

maaaze wrote...

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Thankfully dramatic presentation takes place before plausibilty... otherwise 1000 years would have gone by on earth till Shaperd would have come back. Time is not constant throughout the Galaxy...it depends on the distance.

look here :

http://bigthink.com/ideas/37974

but what i actually ment is that the wave is much faster than the light it emits.

1000 years until Shepard came back? I don't follow.

Relativity has very little to do with this. And it doesn't depend on the distance, but on the mass. It slows down next to object of an incredibly high mass. Although I do not understand your point

So the galaxy now has a beam of light propagating through it for the next 100-200.000 years? That's how long it would take.

Yes , for every Day Shaperd is on the Normandy a much larger timespan would have gone by on earth. It would add up to many lifespans.

What I meant was that relativity does not factor into Mass Effects narrative because of the dramatic presentation.
The same with the energy wave.

It doesn't work that way. It's assuming eezo works by slowing down time in the interior of the ship and travelling to an outside observer at luminal speed. It doesn't. We have seen multiple times the Normandy accelerating to FTL.

Even assuming eezo worked that way, ignoring relativistic physics (i.e ftl travel) is one of the staples of sci-fi. It is "the one big lie" that is allowed without breaking immersion.

Ok, I can understand the second part.

[Geneaux486]

UniqueName001 wrote...

I'd really like one of the defenders of the OP's position to answer me. Are you seriously trying to say that there is never a limit to what should be allowed in a science fiction story, just because of the genre? That anything and everything are to be considered valid, just because the word "fiction" is attached?

Sure there's a limit, but not everyone draws the line in the same place.

[Mazebook]

Chaotic-Fusion wrote...

It doesn't work that way. It's assuming eezo works by slowing down time in the interior of the ship and travelling to an outside observer at luminal speed. It doesn't. We have seen multiple times the Normandy accelerating to FTL.

Even assuming eezo worked that way, ignoring relativistic physics (i.e ftl travel) is one of the staples of sci-fi. It is "the one big lie" that is allowed without breaking immersion.

Ok, I can understand the second part.

Well i am guessing i am over my head on this one... I can´t say what would happen to time if you travel faster than the speed of light.

The only thing i can find is about traveling nearly at the speed of light :
"How far can one travel from the Earth?
Since one might not travel faster than light, one might conclude that a human can never travel further from the earth than 40 light-years if the traveler is active between the age of 20 and 60.
A traveler would then never be able to reach more than the very few star systems which exist within the limit of 20-40 light-years from the Earth.

This is a mistaken conclusion; due to time dilation, the traveler can travel thousands of light-years during his 40 active years. If the spaceship accelerates at a constant 1 g (in its own changing frame of reference), it will, after 354 days, reach speeds a little under the speed of light (for an observer on Earth), and time dilation will increase his lifespan to thousands of Earth years, seen from the reference system of the Solar System, but the traveler's subjective lifespan will not thereby change.

If the traveler returns to the Earth, he will land thousands of years into the future. His speed will not be seen as higher than the speed of light by observers on Earth, and the traveler will not measure their speed as being higher than the speed of light, but will see a length contraction of the universe in his direction of travel.

And as the traveler turns around to return, the Earth will seem to experience much more time than the traveler does. So, although his (ordinary) speed cannot exceed c[/i], the four-velocity (distance as seen by Earth divided by his proper (i.e. subjective) time) can be much greater than c[/i]. This is seen in statistical studies of muons traveling much further than c[/i] times their half-life (at rest), if traveling close to c[/i].[11]" 

Modifié par maaaze, 17 août 2012 - 02:43 .

[daaaav]

Willing suspension of disbelief. Space magic shatters it.

Whilst it is true that this limit is different for everyone, for mysel, synthesis and the lazarus project certainly fall under that category. it is a sense of futility that nothing your character does matters since apparently anything is possible.

[Mazebook]

On the synthesis matter :

The thing that seems fantastical to us is that we could create radiation that effects DNA and Atomic structure not randomly but in a very specifically way. To change their structure like shown in Synthesis.

This is not possible to our knowledge...much like traveling faster than light.

[SparkyRich]

Because they all have little wands....

[Geneaux486]

SparkyRich wrote...

Because they all have little wands....

Oh snap.

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

On the synthesis matter :

The thing that seems fantastical to us is that we could create radiation that effects DNA and Atomic structure not randomly but in a very specifically way. To change their structure like shown in Synthesis.

This is not possible to our knowledge...much like traveling faster than light.

What kind of radiation can instantaneously transmit cybernetics into each and every single living organism in the galaxy (disregarding any and all biological or physiological or psychological differences) and give synthetics the ability to "understand"?

I mean, other than the "magic" kind.

[Epique Phael767]

JC_aka_fps_john wrote...

It's science fiction. Science fiction is space magic.

Get over it.

Science =/= magic.

/thread