253 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

PHGDAL wrote...

Every franchise needs a symbol. Halo has MasterChief, if he didn't die, why does Shepard have to? EA and Bioware are effectively crippling their franchise by removing him. No other character will match him.

If this is true, then ME needs to die.

[PHGDAL]

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I gotta agree all the pushing of Liara as an LI and Biowares pet character has made Liara my second least favourite squadmate after Ashley the Racist. 

For me Shepards canon LI is Tali. And persinally for me Halo Wars was the Halo game I hated the most.

Yeah, Ashley pissed me off so much with her racism. I found it hilarious because even in ME1 my favourite character was Tali, so when Ash yelled at her in the debriefing I just knew I would make Ash pay.
I eventually let her blow herself up with a nuke. Best part of the game.

tickle267 wrote...

PHGDAL wrote...
No other character will match him.

Haha, that made me laugh.

AlanC9 wrote...

PHGDAL wrote...

Every franchise needs a symbol. Halo has MasterChief, if he didn't die, why does Shepard have to? EA and Bioware are effectively crippling their franchise by removing him. No other character will match him.

If this is true, then ME needs to die.

Why? You dislike it when a story is great and has a great hero? Boy, your childhood must have been awful to hate Superman, Ironman, Batman, James Bond, and many other hero stories...

[JamesFaith]

PHGDAL wrote...

Every franchise needs a symbol. Halo has MasterChief, if he didn't die, why does Shepard have to? EA and Bioware are effectively crippling their franchise by removing him. No other character will match him.

Captain Kirk was replaced by Picard and then we got Sisko, Janeway and Archer... and it worked.

SG-1 was replaced by Atlantis team with brand new enemies... it worked.

There are dozens Star Wars novels without characters from movies... and they are good.

There are franchise which stands and fall with main character (Tombraider) and those, which are more about universe then main character (Star Trek). Mass Effect is more second type.

[PHGDAL]

JamesFaith wrote...

PHGDAL wrote...

Every franchise needs a symbol. Halo has MasterChief, if he didn't die, why does Shepard have to? EA and Bioware are effectively crippling their franchise by removing him. No other character will match him.

Captain Kirk was replaced by Picard and then we got Sisko, Janeway and Archer... and it worked.

SG-1 was replaced by Atlantis team with brand new enemies... it worked.

There are dozens Star Wars novels without characters from movies... and they are good.

There are franchise which stands and fall with main character (Tombraider) and those, which are more about universe then main character (Star Trek). Mass Effect is more second type.

In a videogame it's different than a movie. Those characters aren't "you" nor do you have other characters interact with you. In movies you're just a third person watching everything from the sidelines.

In a video-game that is "you", where the character is the way you want the character to be, there is a lot more emotional attachment than any other character. 

The Tomb Raider is a good example right there. Don't people get tired of Lara Croft? I mean, she's still there. Game is good.

And not necessarily. Mass Effect isn't just about the universe. Since the novels of Mass Effect were based on the game and the original game was Shepard, then the whole story is not about the universe but the universe from Shepard's perspective.

For example, I adore the Quarians, but If the original Mass Effect was me playing as a Geth trying to communicate with the Migrant Fleet and failing when they attacked me instead of showing my relationship as a Human to Tali who is innocent, I would hate the Quarians.

The aspects of the universe that you love and hate are purely based on the perspective of Shepard. If Bioware changes the character that you play as, the universe won't be the same.

[AresKeith]

Yes Mass Effect can exist without Shepard

[TaZo_VasN]

I just hope that they can figure out how to continue as Shepard without making it more absurd then it already is. There's always a possibility to implement decisions from the original ME-trilogy. I really don't see how ME could be successful without this iconic character.
They could also do a MMORPG for those who want to play as another race. This would be such a great alternative in my opinion.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

As long as they remember that Shepard's story is the pinnacle of the universe and don't try to overshadow him.

[Dextro Milk]

Can it exist? Um, yes...

[Jonathan Sud]

They give you all this lore and information about this universe, and you believe everything needs to be focused on Shepard?

[JamesFaith]

PHGDAL wrote...

In a videogame it's different than a movie. Those characters aren't "you" nor do you have other characters interact with you. In movies you're just a third person watching everything from the sidelines.

In a video-game that is "you", where the character is the way you want the character to be, there is a lot more emotional attachment than any other character. 

The Tomb Raider is a good example right there. Don't people get tired of Lara Croft? I mean, she's still there. Game is good.

And not necessarily. Mass Effect isn't just about the universe. Since the novels of Mass Effect were based on the game and the original game was Shepard, then the whole story is not about the universe but the universe from Shepard's perspective.

First - ME: Revelation was prequel to ME1 so it was hardly based on Shepard, it just used different characters and universe. 

And if you believed that there is difference between movies and videogames, so lets show you some videogame examples.

Legacy of Kain - main character Kain was succesfully replaced by Raziel in two games
Deus Ex - three different main characters
Darksiders - War in volume one, Death in volume two

And it worked again.

[Mcfly616]

Yup....


ME can and will exist and sell without Shepard. Although, you don't need a thread to know that. Just look at the title of the game.

[AresKeith]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yup....


ME can and will exist and sell without Shepard. Although, you don't need a thread to know that. Just look at the title of the game.

That's kind of a poor example

[Mcfly616]

AresKeith wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yup....


ME can and will exist and sell without Shepard. Although, you don't need a thread to know that. Just look at the title of the game.

That's kind of a poor example

Not really. The game isnt called "Commander Shepard". It's not like its a Super Mario game without Mario, or a Sonic the Hedgehog without Sonic (that'd be weird).


Mass Effect, just like any other deep fictional universe isn't dependant on a single character. Halo, GTA, KotoR, Gears.....and many more will and have survived and succeeded without the Protagonist you began the series with. Star Trek did just fine without Kirk. Hell, a great deal of Trekkies actually prefer Picard. So, yeah ME will be just fine without the Commander

[AresKeith]

Mcfly616 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yup....


ME can and will exist and sell without Shepard. Although, you don't need a thread to know that. Just look at the title of the game.

That's kind of a poor example

Not really. The game isnt called "Commander Shepard". It's not like its a Super Mario game without Mario, or a Sonic the Hedgehog without Sonic (that'd be weird).


Mass Effect, just like any other deep fictional universe isn't dependant on a single character. Halo, GTA, KotoR, Gears.....and many more will and have survived and succeeded without the Protagonist you began the series with. Star Trek did just fine without Kirk. Hell, a great deal of Trekkies actually prefer Picard. So, yeah ME will be just fine without the Commander

I'm not disputing the fact that ME can continue without Shepard, but using the title is kind of a poor example because there are games that focus of one character

Trying to use that fact that its a big universe, like you said is a better example

[Mcfly616]

AresKeith wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yup....


ME can and will exist and sell without Shepard. Although, you don't need a thread to know that. Just look at the title of the game.

That's kind of a poor example

Not really. The game isnt called "Commander Shepard". It's not like its a Super Mario game without Mario, or a Sonic the Hedgehog without Sonic (that'd be weird).


Mass Effect, just like any other deep fictional universe isn't dependant on a single character. Halo, GTA, KotoR, Gears.....and many more will and have survived and succeeded without the Protagonist you began the series with. Star Trek did just fine without Kirk. Hell, a great deal of Trekkies actually prefer Picard. So, yeah ME will be just fine without the Commander

I'm not disputing the fact that ME can continue without Shepard, but using the title is kind of a poor example because there are games that focus of one character

Trying to use that fact that its a big universe, like you said is a better example

I guess you may have a point. (After all, Tomb Raider isn't Tomb Raider without Lara Croft). Still, I don't think it was a "poor" example. Just not a very good one.

[Asharad Hett]

JeffZero wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Can Star Wars live without Luke? Star Trek without Kirk?


Yes, yes, and yes.

Exactly.

Goodness, the amount of fan outcry toward TNG early on was legendary. Granted, it was pretty poor for a while. But people eventually came around as Picard's crew began to rock. And Sisko's as well.

:sick:

[-SaintZ-]

I don't think Mass effect relies on sheppard at all. Mass effect has always been about the characters. Sheppard was the main dude but he wasn't the one I was most attached to. If anyone is sad that he is dead (even though a sequel is pretty impossible) I'm glad he did. If you look at shepard as a character he/she (I'll say he) was born to be a martyr. He even kind of was when he dies in 2 rescuing Joker. Now they have got Sheppard out the way they can make a protagonist with real questionable morality who can be selfish.

[Eterna]

Of course, there is far more to the Mass Effect universe than the players avatar.

[thehomeworld]

Yes ME can exist without shep. They just need to have a strong lead who isn't a brick, who isn't auto dialogued, have a robust and meaningful convo wheel 3 - 5 options, and keep the plot, lore, themes consistent all the way through the game or games they make next. See Bioshock Infinite on how to keep your themes, lore, and plot consistent it stayed the course up to and through the end.

Also for me personally I'd like them to go back to respecting their female gamers your female lead and all females on your squad should be battle appropriate and dress modestly for casual wear like they did in ME. If you want to make sexy armors and outfits make them available only in stores on hub worlds so I as the player can buy them sexy or impractical outfits to equip on my MALE and female characters. For instance Samara's low v-neck armor would only be available in a store after you get her in your squad Samara would've shown up 1st in game with protective cool armor that covered her completely and without heels. Jack sense she's alittle edgy would've originally been found in Purgatory in her leather best but also with a black tank top under that you'd then could go to the Omega and buy her sexy bra strap outfit.

Also another personal thing for me would keep in mind your script and the action scenes make them different for your female and male leads I don't want to have my female hero go all butch again and start boxing yahgs or tearing apart mechs with her bare hands like the lead male did its way fake looking instead we know she has to fight the yahg so she's going to kick box and use the environment like run up a pillar spring off of it and kick it gives her more power then normal male lead wouldn't do this he's just do the slam and shove fest.

Modifié par thehomeworld, 05 juin 2013 - 10:06 .

[dublin omega 223]

PHGDAL wrote...

dublin omega 223 wrote...

I gotta agree all the pushing of Liara as an LI and Biowares pet character has made Liara my second least favourite squadmate after Ashley the Racist. 

For me Shepards canon LI is Tali. And persinally for me Halo Wars was the Halo game I hated the most.

Yeah, Ashley pissed me off so much with her racism. I found it hilarious because even in ME1 my favourite character was Tali, so when Ash yelled at her in the debriefing I just knew I would make Ash pay.
I eventually let her blow herself up with a nuke. Best part of the game.

tickle267 wrote...

PHGDAL wrote...
No other character will match him.

Haha, that made me laugh.

AlanC9 wrote...

PHGDAL wrote...

Every franchise needs a symbol. Halo has MasterChief, if he didn't die, why does Shepard have to? EA and Bioware are effectively crippling their franchise by removing him. No other character will match him.

If this is true, then ME needs to die.

Why? You dislike it when a story is great and has a great hero? Boy, your childhood must have been awful to hate Superman, Ironman, Batman, James Bond, and many other hero stories...

First off glad you agree Ash was a racist and I always had her nuked on Virmire myself lol.

I wasn't a big Superman fan myself when I was growing up always felt he was overpowered and a gary stu type of character. I preferred Batman.

And that picture made me laugh as Shepard is spelled wrong.

Modifié par dublin omega 223, 05 juin 2013 - 10:42 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Shepard is just a dumb brick so I suppose that a new protagonist would be a welcome change for the next Mass Effect title.

[Ravensword]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Shepard is just a dumb brick so I suppose that a new protagonist would be a welcome change for the next Mass Effect title.

A silent protagonist!

[chemiclord]

thehomeworld wrote...

Yes ME can exist without shep. They just need to have a strong lead who isn't a brick, who isn't auto dialogued, have a robust and meaningful convo wheel 3 - 5 options... *rest snipped for brevity* 

The problem here is that your wants and desires inherently contradict themselves.

If you're going to have a completely "un-defined" lead character, he/she kinda HAS to be "a brick."  It is impossible for a game to assume what you are thinking or take your headcanon into account.  So if you have your "3-5 options" all of them will have to delivered without any inflection or emotion, and the interactions with others will have to be equally wooden, otherwise you'll complain that "your character" isn't thinking what "your character" should be thinking.

You either have an emotionless brick with multiple options, or a defined character with autodialogue that works within that definition.  You can't have both.

Modifié par chemiclord, 05 juin 2013 - 11:45 .

[reddeath4242]

Yes, it's been done before in other games and it can be done again

[chemiclord]

Really? What other games both define a character yet leave it undefined for player definition?

Do enlighten me.

Modifié par chemiclord, 06 juin 2013 - 12:52 .