238 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

TIM says this in the first 10 minutes of ME2..

No he did not.

I believe the line goes something like " S/He needs faces S/He can trust."

That was a refered to the crew...Not the squad.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

He's with cerberus anyway. Trust is not an issue. Tim can order all the cerberus peopel to just lie with made up stories. Or even have the more grey protion of his soldiers do the mission.
My point is that he did this as an issue of long term resources. Having a squad of aliens do the mission has him lose nothing in terms of resources if they die.

thats probably because he doesn't have a fleet that can do it, so he gets Shepard

[Star fury]

dreman9999!

Stop ruining interesting thread with quote pyramids! I wish mods ban people for that.

[F4H bandicoot]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

TIM says this in the first 10 minutes of ME2..

No he did not.

I believe the line goes something like " S/He needs faces S/He can trust."

That was a refered to the crew...Not the squad.

So having a crew he could trust but a squad he can't trust is good for the Suicide mission yeah...

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

He's with cerberus anyway. Trust is not an issue. Tim can order all the cerberus peopel to just lie with made up stories. Or even have the more grey protion of his soldiers do the mission.
My point is that he did this as an issue of long term resources. Having a squad of aliens do the mission has him lose nothing in terms of resources if they die.

thats probably because he doesn't have a fleet that can do it, so he gets Shepard

Or maybe he's doing this so he doesn't use his long term resourses.

[dreman9999]

@ F4H bandicoot wrote...

What guarantees Shepard would trust the squad he had to get? TIM didn't know archangel was Garrus and Tali was never considered till well into the mission. 
Can you say Jack can be trusted the first time you met her?
Grunt?
Zaeed?
Kasumi?

Thane was an egnigma for a while.
And Samara only had her code to control her.

If it was an issue of trust, only 2 out the planned squad easilly had it.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 08:02 .

[RiouHotaru]

 As for Cerberus' fleet, did anyone pay attention to how the Normandy was reconstructed?  Parts and pieces were created from blueprints and then shipped off to some undisclosed location to be put together IKEA-style.  It made sure that the reconstruction was as discrete as possible because no-one would question individual, mundane ship parts.

It makes perfect sense for this to be the same thing TIM does with Cerberus' "fleet".  I use quotes around "fleet" because we don't know the exact size.  But it fits with how the fleet appears to simply "appear" from thin air.

As for Cerberus almost going bankrupt?  There's absolutely no reference to this.  Remember, their net income is something in the hundreds of millions of credits per year, or something along those lines.  If Cerberus has been around as long as we're lead to believe, they could have tens if not hundreds of billions of credits to toss around.  Yes, Shepard cost them over-budget, but that doesn't mean Cerberus was going anywhere near the red-line.

[Airell]

They glamourized cerberus in mass effect 2, so much that people love them. when they should have doubt and miss trust about cerberus . That way we could have seen them as enemy and not as friends in the core game.

[RiouHotaru]

Yeah, the fact that Cerberus does a personality 180 from ME1 to ME2 should've set off ALL kinds of alarms in people's heads that something was up.

Instead we got pro-Cerberus all over the place.

[robertthebard]

So I have to wonder; just what is it that Cerberus is hiding? They lead Shepard to believe, through EDI, that there are only 150 operatives in the organization, and yet, it would take at least that many people to run the space station where the Lazarus Project was based, let alone any wizards, er, I mean "speacialists" they needed for the space magic, er, procedure. One can only guess how many personnel are stationed on TIM's personal hide out.

There are, of course, no clues to Cerberus' true nature in any dialog you may have with TIM, except that, well, there really is:

Cerberus is not as evil as you believe. Well, that certainly leaves a lot of wiggle room, doesn't it? There is also that hilarious dialog when you inform him that he can't have his latest toy, because you're blowing it to hell. Although, I don't suppose it was supposed to be hilarious, maybe tragic? However, it's also interesting to note that neither Cerberus employee that you have with you from the start thinks giving TIM the base is a good idea. What's up with that?

It's possible that people didn't hear about or interact with Cerberus at all in ME 1, but for those of us that did, there's surely a clue or two to how they do business, eh? I'm sorry to all the Cerberus Apologists, but if I weren't DeM'd into working for them by being killed off and then Space Magic'd back to life, I wouldn't voluntarily work for them. After all, to quote Jacob "They've been called terrorists, and with good reason. I doubt you can find a more checkered past".

Having not read any of the books, or comics, I won't reference them, and I didn't play Overlord, so I really can't comment, but I do understand that it was less than altruistic. The fact is, TIM could care less about the colonists. He wants the Tech, and saving colonists is a side effect of getting it. He employs his Space Magic to get Shepard because Shepard has defeated a Reaper, and knows what s/he is doing. He then surrounds him with familiar and "sympathetic" faces, also people that have no idea about the nature of the organization, Connely and Gabby, off the top of my head, so that Shepard will be comfortable on board the new Normandy. All to cover up the other stuff that he's doing, that wouldn't sit well with most Shepards.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
This is cerberus...
logistics and resources are not a problem. Even with retribution. Heck, it retrubution TIM is help by Aria and then with the resource for omega....Take it's it form her.
And with that none ofthe nation in the termunus i strong enough to take omega. Iftim could do it, no othe r terminuse nation would try to take it.
As for you last statement, the concept of Shepard was as a pawn. A pawn so great that it can gain much support to cerberus and get the collector base with the lease loss of man power.
Because of Shepard, many people who were aeinst cerberus became pro cerberus.Even joined up. Even alians helped cerberus.
Why do you think we have a Squad made of mostly aliens on a cerberus ship? Could not TIM just use the bestof his own soldier to help Shepard? Why use the best of other races?.....It is a suicide mission with a high chance of lose of life....Using his own soldiers means loses resouces. Using someone else soldiers like he did in ME2, means he doesn't. 

Logistics are not a problem? Such things are issues for everyone.

Omega is in a weakend state from recent fighting, don't tell me anyone would not jump at this opportunity. And don't tell me that the council races would not notice Cerberus making such an obvious move as taking Omega. You would think the council races would have some sort of spec ops or black ops in order to oppose them.

And Shepard as a pawn is a dumb idea. Not only is he not necessary for the job, he has bad experience with Cerberus, why not just have Miranda lead the Normandy? Hire a couple of mercenaries at Zaeed's calliber and mix a few of your own soldiers. Sure, they will all get killed, but you will have a much more loyal subject leading the team meaning a far greater chance they won't give you the finger and blow up the base.

He want you not getting.Cerberus is an organization who strongest point is steath. No one will ever know wht they are doin gif they do the same tactics as before. Hech, no one ever truely did out side of the sb.

Omega is not in a weakens state at all. Cerberus only lost ground forces taking the station, and then quickly restored those forces. Cerberus is using reaper tech to enhace their tactics. Any one of the terminous nation try to take it they would lose.

Also, the council does not care about omega and would not try to take it.

Fianlly, it's not a bad idea. TIM can get the station with less of the long term resources lost. The point was to use sheaprd as properganda and get people and aliens that would not help him before to help him. And it worked.

So the Terminus states that are willing to unite against the Alliance are for whatever reason not willing to jump on Cerberus busy fighting for Omega? And while the council do not care about Omega, they do are about Cerberus. Why couldn't the Alliance use the corsairs for once? Or what about the STG, don't they got any plans for things like this?

And loss of long term resources? I highly doubt a few soldiers mean squat for TIM, and having a far more loyal team to TIM would be far more worthwhile trade-off.

And Shepard as propoganda. No, what was used as propaganda was that Cerberus were the only ones who stopped the Collectors. Which could easily be accomplished without Shepard.

[ticklefist]

Hrothdane wrote...

The way I have chosen to make sense of the dichotomy between super-evil Cerberus and well-intentioned extremist Cerberus is that it was always super-evil. Keep in mind, that while I have some circumstantial evidence that supports my theory, I don't think of it as anything more than headcanon.

We know that TIM organized Cerberus into independent cells with no connection to each other. We also know that he specifically set up the Normandy SR-2 and the crew as a method to make Shepard more "comfortable" working with him. The Illusive Man created the "illusion" that Cerberus was really just a well-intentioned group with extreme methods for Shepard. He never cared about the human colonists, except inasmuch as he needed to to keep Shepard working for him. He wanted the Collector technology for himself so that he could move forward with his other plans, which is why he gets so angry and even orders Miranda to stop Shepard when he/she decides to destroy the base.

Yeah that's pretty much the intended take-away. Watch the vides, read the tablets as you pass them, it's all there. They did a good job of backpedalling their retcon.

[Alien Number Six]

The Illusive Man for me has been the "Magneto" of the Mass Effect trilogy. I person with a radical point of view that may just turn out to be right. His "The ends justify the means." style is justified if you chose the Control ending. Is he and Cerburus evil? Yes, what Cerburus did on Horizen in Mass Effect 3 is proof. Someone once said "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Cerburus was founded on good intentions but fell to Reaper indoctrination.

[JBONE29]

Govalon wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

klarabella wrote...

[
It's just three Collector ships IIRC. Funny, how three cruisers can be that much of a threat. Yes, I know, I know, they harvest millions, billions of colonists ... in the Terminus systems. Not that it makes any sense to have so many colonists out there with no military to protect them only 30 years after humanity has begun a new era of colonization. Where do these colonists come from?

In fact this is quite logical. They came here from same reason why thousands of europian colonists leave their cities and villages and  moved to wilderness of America. They were looking for freedom. And if you listen to that survivor guy on Horizon, they were even upset when Alliance wanted to protect them. Military protection was for them just another form of Alliance involment.

And were they came from? Well, Earth have 7 billions population now, in ME future it will be probably another one or two billions more, lot of people willing leave crowded regions of Earth and start somewhere else. 

This is still illogical because most of those 7 billion people we have now, are not white. In the future, earth will have even less white people because whyite people don't make babies. There prob won't be any white people in 150 years but in game, almost all the colonist and humans you see are white. Makes no sense.

It would make sense if you think about all the asian and black people (andersson, kasumi) in game and turn them in to white people in your mind and then turn all the previously white people (shepard, ashley, vega) in to black and asian. That is how the real demographic would be

Shepard is of undetermined ethnicity (you chose, if you chose to make Shepard white then Shepard would be white), Ashley is multi-racial, Vega is Hispanic.  There are actually more non-white people in the trillogy than there are white people.

Non-White

Zaeed- of Persian Desent
Jacob Taylor- Black
Giana- Multi-Racial
Emily Wong- Asian
Diana Allers- Multi-Racial
Anderson- Black
Kasumi- Asian
Vega- Hispanic
Cortez- Hispanic
Traynor- Multi-Racail (probably has East Indian in her)
Ashley- Multi-Racial
Khalisah- Arabic
Kai Leng- Asian
Udina- East Indian

White

Presley
Miranda
Joker
Kahlee Sanders
Dr. Chawas
Dr. Michel
Jenkins
Wilson
Hackett
Dr. Kenson

Unknown

Jack
Shepard

These are the names I could remember.