238 réponses à ce sujet

[NM_Che56]

You're seeing Cerberus from different perspectives:

ME1: From the Alliance Military's perspective. Ethically screwed and rather disturbing experiments and cold blooded murder (e.g. Akuze and luring a Thresher Maw to take out a platoon of Marines)

ME2: From an organization with nefarious goals trying to persuade you to help them under the guise of a just and noble cause. "QQ...we're just misunderstood *muhahaha*..."

ME3: The full reveal.

[N7Infernox]

Wulfram wrote...

ME2 was a bad waste of time from the perspective of the overall story of the series.

It was also an enjoyable waste of time. ME's main allure was exploring and immersing ourselves in the universe, not waging a war with the Reapers.

[Cyberfrog81]

Star fury wrote...

Cerberus actually made 360 degree turn.

ME1 - terrorist organisation, kidnapping torturing and assassination of Alliance admiral(everybody in galaxy knows about it), using rachni, thresher maws etc. Absolute bad guys. Small group.

ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies. TIM even didn't know about Subject Zero experiment or he would've stopped it. That line almost made me cry. Almost. Not good guys but mostly grey. Miranda, Jacob and Kelly are actually nice.

Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Please. Evrything in the end of ME3 is outside the control ofthe catalyst . Ithas no control over what the crucible does out side of synthesis.

I've told you before not to argue your headcanon as fact.

The orignal end has the same concept as the current ones. The only differance is that it leave problem open with no solution in one of the orgianal endings.

It leaves the decision up to the player, not to the Reapers. It gives the hope that a solution will be found on our terms.
Like I said, it's still silly. We needed no mysterious Reaper motive. But it's still better than this. Yes, a plot outline is better than this garbage.

1. It's undeniable now that the crucible is not controled by the catalyst.


It's a head cannon to think the catalyst does control the crucible.

2.Agein, what happens in the end of ME3 is not in the hands of the reapers.
If you look at the pic about you'll see that the catalyst has no control 

[AresKeith]

@dreman so why does the Catalyst show emotion when you refuse him?

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It's undeniable now that the crucible is not controled by the catalyst.

It's a head cannon to think the catalyst does control the crucible.

All you have is a pic that's already been debunked? Yawn.

2.Agein, what happens in the end of ME3 is not in the hands of the reapers.
If you look at the pic about you'll see that the catalyst has no control 

That picture means nothing, that plug has nothing to do with the mechanisms of the Citadel, the structure that forms over the control devices cannot possibly be folded into that structure. The picture is dishonest and deliberately omits the prongs at the back.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 août 2012 - 04:02 .

[NM_Che56]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Cerberus actually made 360 degree turn.

ME1 - terrorist organisation, kidnapping torturing and assassination of Alliance admiral(everybody in galaxy knows about it), using rachni, thresher maws etc. Absolute bad guys. Small group.

ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies. TIM even didn't know about Subject Zero experiment or he would've stopped it. That line almost made me cry. Almost. Not good guys but mostly grey. Miranda, Jacob and Kelly are actually nice.

Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

Miranda is an ice queen who can be softened...or melted...if you know what I mean

[Star fury]

dreman9999 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everybody (except you, apparently) knows about this ending. A lot of people think it still better than what we got.
Yes it's silly, but then it is only an outline and at the very least doesn't have the RGB ending's insane troll logic.

And it has moral dilemma - ends justify the means... Or not. As much as I don't rate Mr. Karpyshin's writing, it's still better than current disaster. 

On topic.

Cerberus actually made 360 degree turn.

ME1 - terrorist organisation, kidnapping torturing and assassination of Alliance admiral(everybody in galaxy knows about it), using rachni, thresher maws etc. Absolute bad guys. Small group.

ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies. TIM even didn't know about Subject Zero experiment or he would've stopped it. That line almost made me cry. Almost. Not good guys but mostly grey. Miranda, Jacob and Kelly are actually nice. Again small group and reviving Shepard with building second Normandy consumed most of their resourses.

ME3 - again bad guys and main antagonist, Shepard fights mostly with them and not with Reapers. Created huge army that fought with Turians, Krogans, Alliance and even Reapers(sic!). Built a fleet, even cruisers! More or less succesful research of indoctrination. Retcon...

1. The old endings and the new ends have the same end justifiesthe means concept. It just the old ending dooms everyone no matter what.
2."
ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies."

You beleived TIM? Cerberus did not do a 360, You just drank the cerberus koolaid. Cerberus is an organization that believe in doinf the extremes to  uplifting humanity. They always were like that in ME1, the same in ME2, and no different in ME3. In ME3 they just beleive that the reapers can be controled and want to use them to up lift humaity. That is no differnt then what they were trying to do before.

If you think cerberus did a 360, ask yourself this, have you ever trust TIM and cerberus?

Please... Cerberus scientists that experimented on kids and Jack had a private discussion, it wasn't done in order to fool Shepard. They genuinely believed that TIM would stop all affair, your teammates comment - "Facilty gone rogue." Cerberus looked much better in ME2, and retcon was obvious in a dialog of TIM and his subordinate in ME3.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It's undeniable now that the crucible is not controled by the catalyst.

It's a head cannon to think the catalyst does control the crucible.

All you have is a pic that's already been debunked? Yawn.

2.Agein, what happens in the end of ME3 is not in the hands of the reapers.
If you look at the pic about you'll see that the catalyst has no control 

That picture means nothing, that plug has nothing to do with the mechanisms of the Citadel, the structure that forms over the control devices cannot possibly be folded into that structure. The pciture is dishonest and deliberately omits the prongs at the back.

Yes, it doee. It means it not in the catalyst design. Take some time to realize that it make no logical sense to let someone kill you if you controlin gthe thing your using to kill you with. If the catalyst beleives that it right to do what it doing and want to impose it's beleifs on others, why is it not forcing synthesis? Why is he even bothering to ask Shepard to choose?
It makes no sense for the catalyst to control the choices.

[JBPBRC]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

This is what happens when you don't plan your whole series ahead of time.

/thread

[JeffZero]

Cerberus in ME1: "We're evil."
Cerberus in ME2: "Actually, we're misunderstood."
Cerberus in ME3: "Actually, we're evil."

Neo Cerberus in ME4: "Actually, we were always secretly Cylons."

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, it doee. It means it not in the catalyst design. Take some time to realize that it make no logical sense to let someone kill you if you controlin gthe thing your using to kill you with.

Yet again, you engage in the belief that the Catalyst is putting it's own self-preservation before the promotion of it's agenda for no good reason.

If the catalyst beleives that it right to do what it doing and want to impose it's beleifs on others, why is it not forcing synthesis? Why is he even bothering to ask Shepard to choose?
It makes no sense for the catalyst to control the choices.

Because "synthesis cannot be forced", and by the Catalyst's broken logic, this is synthesis by consent.
Regardless of your choice, the Catalyst's agenda is preserved. The only one where it isn't is refuse.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 août 2012 - 04:08 .

[dreman9999]

Star fury wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everybody (except you, apparently) knows about this ending. A lot of people think it still better than what we got.
Yes it's silly, but then it is only an outline and at the very least doesn't have the RGB ending's insane troll logic.

And it has moral dilemma - ends justify the means... Or not. As much as I don't rate Mr. Karpyshin's writing, it's still better than current disaster. 

On topic.

Cerberus actually made 360 degree turn.

ME1 - terrorist organisation, kidnapping torturing and assassination of Alliance admiral(everybody in galaxy knows about it), using rachni, thresher maws etc. Absolute bad guys. Small group.

ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies. TIM even didn't know about Subject Zero experiment or he would've stopped it. That line almost made me cry. Almost. Not good guys but mostly grey. Miranda, Jacob and Kelly are actually nice. Again small group and reviving Shepard with building second Normandy consumed most of their resourses.

ME3 - again bad guys and main antagonist, Shepard fights mostly with them and not with Reapers. Created huge army that fought with Turians, Krogans, Alliance and even Reapers(sic!). Built a fleet, even cruisers! More or less succesful research of indoctrination. Retcon...

1. The old endings and the new ends have the same end justifiesthe means concept. It just the old ending dooms everyone no matter what.
2."
ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies."

You beleived TIM? Cerberus did not do a 360, You just drank the cerberus koolaid. Cerberus is an organization that believe in doinf the extremes to  uplifting humanity. They always were like that in ME1, the same in ME2, and no different in ME3. In ME3 they just beleive that the reapers can be controled and want to use them to up lift humaity. That is no differnt then what they were trying to do before.

If you think cerberus did a 360, ask yourself this, have you ever trust TIM and cerberus?

Please... Cerberus scientists that experimented on kids and Jack had a private discussion, it wasn't done in order to fool Shepard. They genuinely believed that TIM would stop all affair, your teammates comment - "Facilty gone rogue." Cerberus looked much better in ME2, and retcon was obvious in a dialog of TIM and his subordinate in ME3.

Please. Did you not play overlord? Cerberus did the same thing over over agian with the geth....The geth if we had legion that did not have to be taken over.
And the test on Jack and the children was no the first test they've done. Near every biotic we have is because cerberus force enzo acident over many colonies, which caused many deaths and birth defects. As TIM did not care obut the tast on the children, he caredthat there was no results ofthe test. Don't believe for a second the TIM does not know what is going on in his organization.Even with overlord, he was ok with keeping David the way he was hooked up before.
Cerberus did not do a 360. You just see there ture face. Added, you still have yet to answered the quetion...Wouldyou trust cerberus and TIM?

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think Cerberus was both a distraction and a filler to make the game look cool. In ME1 it became obvious that fighting one reaper was a challenge. So, in ME2 the whole problem was simply avoided by fighting the collectors and to make it feel dark and edgy by joining Cerberus. Again the same problem was there in ME3. One cannot fight these giant bugs the entire game, so this time Cerberus were the bad guys and Kai Leng was supposed to be the big attraction before facing Marauder Shields. I think it is that simple.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 17 août 2012 - 04:12 .

[Arisugawa]

Star fury wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Everybody (except you, apparently) knows about this ending. A lot of people think it still better than what we got.
Yes it's silly, but then it is only an outline and at the very least doesn't have the RGB ending's insane troll logic.

And it has moral dilemma - ends justify the means... Or not. As much as I don't rate Mr. Karpyshin's writing, it's still better than current disaster. 

On topic.

Cerberus actually made 360 degree turn.

ME1 - terrorist organisation, kidnapping torturing and assassination of Alliance admiral(everybody in galaxy knows about it), using rachni, thresher maws etc. Absolute bad guys. Small group.

ME2 - suddenly TIM & co are the only group that care about Reaper threat and human colonies. TIM even didn't know about Subject Zero experiment or he would've stopped it. That line almost made me cry. Almost. Not good guys but mostly grey. Miranda, Jacob and Kelly are actually nice. Again small group and reviving Shepard with building second Normandy consumed most of their resourses.

ME3 - again bad guys and main antagonist, Shepard fights mostly with them and not with Reapers. Created huge army that fought with Turians, Krogans, Alliance and even Reapers(sic!). Built a fleet, even cruisers! More or less succesful research of indoctrination. Retcon...

I'm quoting myself here from another forum:

Arisugawa wrote...

Everything that observers usually hate about Cerberus is often passed off by people within Cerberus as either a rogue cell, or something that was cancelled as soon as the full scope of it came to light. Let's start with the most noteworthy rogue cell, which was the Teltin facility that raised Jack.

Jack's loyalty mission would have us believe that the facility was using methods that the Illusive Man would not have approved of in order to get the results that he was demanding of them.

The Illusive Man requested operation logs again. He's getting suspicious. When we get results, he won't care what we did. But if he knew?...He won't find out.

When you press Miranda for more information about this, she attempts to confirm it by acknowledging that it was a mistake, but one that was shut down once it was discovered what was going on.

The email sent to Shepard after the Pragia mission is over, again, attempts to reassure us that this operation wasn't sanctioned by the Illusive Man.

He believed you would want to know that he had ordered Subject Zero's project shut down before the riot broke out.

Of course, it doesn't say why the shut down was ordered if this sentiment has any validity at all.

The problem is this: the Illusive Man doesn't trust people to work  independently of him. The Normandy SR-2 is full of listening devices (confirmed by both Mordin and EDI) and presumably cameras on top of that (if the Shadow Broker is watching Jacob, it's reasonable to assume  either the Cerberus security feed has been tapped or has their own  cameras in place). The Executive Officer, Miranda, is first and foremost loyal to the Illusive Man and not to the commander of the vessel, and sends him independent reports. EDI admits when you first meet her that  one of her responsibilities is to keep the Illusive Man informed on the state of the ship and the crew.

The entire Normandy is essentially a vast array of eyes and ears for the Illusive Man to track the progress of the Lazarus Project.

This is exemplified when, during the battle at the Collector Base, the Illusive Man knows when you've reached the main control center and are readying the explosives to destroy the ship. How does he know this? Either because you're being bugged, or EDI is feeding him constant status reports, or both. Either way, you are not trusted to perform this mission unobserved.

To expect that he considered any of his other projects any less important and therefore did not observe them with the same scrutiny is naive. Yes, the Collector Base is a vastly different treasure than the Subject Zero project, but I find it unreasonable that the Subject Zero project would not have had a Miranda-style loyalist there who would havebeen feeding the Illusive Man independent reports on the Pergnim use orthe aggressive manner in which the other biotic potentials were being killed in the name of progress.

Project Overlord is a better example; I'd wager the Illusive Man felt the Geth networking project was worth his attention and all four facilities had significant camera presence. Is it possible that he didn't know that Archer was using his brother as a guinea pig to advance the networking project? No, it's not. It's certainly played out that
way for Shepard's benefit, and Archer seems to think he was keeping it quiet. Again, though, it's either being observed or someone like Miranda is there giving the Illusive Man the necessary data.

It comes down to this: the Illusive Man knew about Teltin and the Subject Zero experiments just like he knew about Aite and the methods used on Project Overlord. And because he knew, he condoned.

There are no rogue cells in Cerberus. There are only failed projects that are classified as rogue to ease the conscience of Cerberus' backers, and idealists like Kelly Chambers who might otherwise be horrified if they knew the full scope of what their employer was willing to do in the name of furthering his agenda. And honestly, you could probably put Miranda herself in that category, as even she was unwilling to go along with the preservation with the Collector base.

Now, you can argue that the goals of Cerberus in the end may be necessary ones and that the brutal methods used to pursue them are just as unfortunately necessary. But the dismissal of the horrific things
Cerberus has done by saying they were done by rogue elements is just smokescreen. Cerberus has done some terrible things, and the head of Cerberus has no problem whatsoever with how those things were done.

Don't deceive yourself into thinking that TIM would have shut down the Teltin facility. He didn't, and he had no intention of doing so. That's smokescreen for Cerberus' idealists like Miranda. More to the point, "shutdown" is very likely code for "coverup and hide the evidence," a similar tactic being used against the scientists that defected from Cerberus in Mass Effect 3. Shut down simply means it's time to take what we've learned and kill everyone involved that was not a TIM insider.

Note very, very carefully that when you question Miranda about the events of Mass Effect 1, she defends the use of Rachni soldiers and Thorian Creepers. What she does not mention is the use of HUSKS. (see the mission Colony of the Dead).

Miranda either does not know about Cerberus creating Husks in Mass Effect 1, which is very very likely given her reaction to the Sanctuary facility in Mass Effect 3, or she was fed enough misinformation about it that she doesn't feel it is worth discussing with Shepard in Mass Effect 2. In both cases, if she knew the true depths of what Cerberus was up to, she wouldn't be the defender of it that she is. She's as much in the dark about their true operations as she was about the Teltin facility.

Modifié par Arisugawa, 17 août 2012 - 04:25 .

[Star fury]

Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

Miranda cares about her sister. Then Ice Queen supports destruction of Collectors' base. What else do you need? Kelly couldn't warn you about hoax because it wasn't hoax in ME2 before Bioware change lead writer. Pure retcon.

I think Cerberus had million soldiers thanks to Sanctuary. Cerberus-Reapers relationship is mind-boggling, mostly because of lazy writing.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, it doee. It means it not in the catalyst design. Take some time to realize that it make no logical sense to let someone kill you if you controlin gthe thing your using to kill you with.

Yet again, you engage in the belief that the Catalyst is putting it's own self-preservation before the promotion of it's agenda for no good reason.

If the catalyst beleives that it right to do what it doing and want to impose it's beleifs on others, why is it not forcing synthesis? Why is he even bothering to ask Shepard to choose?
It makes no sense for the catalyst to control the choices.

Because "synthesis cannot be forced", and by the Catalyst's broken logic, this is synthesis by consent.
Regardless of your choice, the Catalyst's agenda is preserved. The only one where it isn't is refuse.

1. It' not just self preservation. It's the preservation of the solution I'm pointing out. If you pick destory, that destory the only why synthesis can happen. The catalyst is the only one that know how to use the crucible to do synthesis. If he dies, synthesis is lost. If he wants that, why risk having it destoryed?

2. Why was synthesis forced anyway? If it could not be forced, why do we force it on everyone?

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 04:19 .

[AresKeith]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I think Cerberus was both a distraction and a filler to make the game look cool. In ME1 it became obvious that fighting one reaper was a challenge. So, in ME2 the whole problem was simply avoided by fighting the collectors and to make it feel dark and edgy by joining Cerberus. Again the same problem was there in ME3. One cannot fight these giant bugs the entire game, so this time Cerberus were the bad guys and Kai Leng was supposed to be the big attraction before facing Marauder Shields. I think it is that simple.

originally Kai Leng was suppose to have his own top Cerberus squad and not be so poorly written to go against Shepard and his/her squad

[dreman9999]

Star fury wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

Miranda cares about her sister. Then Ice Queen supports destruction of Collectors' base. What else do you need? Kelly couldn't warn you about hoax because it wasn't hoax in ME2 before Bioware change lead writer. Pure retcon.

I think Cerberus had million soldiers thanks to Sanctuary. Cerberus-Reapers relationship is mind-boggling, mostly because of lazy writing.

1. Miranda being human does not mean cerberus is good. Kelly obviously did know about the hoax, it's shown in ME3 she was just as conned as anyone else that beleive cerberus was good.

2. It not lazy writing. it's just you not paying attetion. Did you turn off your ears during cronos station?

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It' not just self preservation. It's the preservation of the solution I'm pointing out. If you pick destory, that destory the only why synthesis can happen. The catalyst is the only one that know how to use the crucible to do synthesis. If he dies, synthesis is lost. If he wants that, why risk having it destoryed?

Because organics obviously aren't "ready" for synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't view synthesis as an imposition.
Much like it's apologists, it views it as a favour. Because it's mentality is just that removed from anyone else's.

2. Why was synthesis forced anyway? Ifit could not be forced, why do we force it on everyone?

Again, insane troll logic. We're talking about a being who thinks the only way to prevent you from being killed by synthetics is by killing you with synthetics and then calling it something other than killing so it makes it all okay.

[CronoDragoon]

en2ym3 wrote...

Cerberus has been a supremely frustrating aspect of the Mass Effect series, for me.
We went from a completely evil, mad science type of rogue, private organization responsible for a lot of people's problems, misery, loss, etc. (especially if you played the Survivor route), to an extremist, pro-human and rogue private organization - that you have to work for - that is given a lot of effort (and pushes it, sometimes) to be portrayed as a much more gray, arguably even useful/good institution, to this organization that has an unbelievable amount of power and money that is either as or more purely, blatantly evil and mustache-twirling than they were ever before.  

They are given less time to be explained, fleshed out, etc. in 3 (there just sort of...there), yet more time is spent on them doing shenanigans than the Reapers.  Why?

I have a feeling this has less to do with intention and more to do with a lot of scrapped plans, changes, etc.  Still, I thought it would be worth asking for answers or thoughts on the matter.

When BioWare made ME1 they had no idea Cerberus would be important, so that explains their sort of "Blue Suns" status as a typical bad guy group. As for the change between ME2 and ME3, that happened because TIM, indoctrinated himself well before ME3, began experimenting on his troops with indoctrination, and also became obsessed with Controlling the Reapers once he learned it was possible. (Although as Vendetta hints, this has before been a trap set by the Reapers to indoctrinate people who want to control them)

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It' not just self preservation. It's the preservation of the solution I'm pointing out. If you pick destory, that destory the only why synthesis can happen. The catalyst is the only one that know how to use the crucible to do synthesis. If he dies, synthesis is lost. If he wants that, why risk having it destoryed?

Because organics obviously aren't "ready" for synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't view synthesis as an imposition.
Much like it's apologists, it views it as a favour. Because it's mentality is just that removed from anyone else's.

2. Why was synthesis forced anyway? Ifit could not be forced, why do we force it on everyone?

Again, insane troll logic. We're talking about a being who thinks the only way to prevent you from being killed by synthetics is by killing you with synthetics and then calling it something other than killing so it makes it all okay.

1. That makes no sense. Your talk about a being that is already imposing his beliefs on everyone via the reaper solution...Suddenly, you believe he wants you to choose? Added, he didn't end no it could be do this way before the crucible was hooked up.

2.The fact you still believe that now shows you don't get it.....Let me help....
 
It's called perserving. And yes it can be done that way...
http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien 

[NM_Che56]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It' not just self preservation. It's the preservation of the solution I'm pointing out. If you pick destory, that destory the only why synthesis can happen. The catalyst is the only one that know how to use the crucible to do synthesis. If he dies, synthesis is lost. If he wants that, why risk having it destoryed?

Because organics obviously aren't "ready" for synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't view synthesis as an imposition.
Much like it's apologists, it views it as a favour. Because it's mentality is just that removed from anyone else's.

2. Why was synthesis forced anyway? Ifit could not be forced, why do we force it on everyone?

Again, insane troll logic. We're talking about a being who thinks the only way to prevent you from being killed by synthetics is by killing you with synthetics and then calling it something other than killing so it makes it all okay.

Kill = Preserved in Reaper form like some sort of Anatomical Collection at the Walter Reed Medical Museum.  I'd rather die. LOL

[dreman9999]

Master Che wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. It' not just self preservation. It's the preservation of the solution I'm pointing out. If you pick destory, that destory the only why synthesis can happen. The catalyst is the only one that know how to use the crucible to do synthesis. If he dies, synthesis is lost. If he wants that, why risk having it destoryed?

Because organics obviously aren't "ready" for synthesis. The Catalyst doesn't view synthesis as an imposition.
Much like it's apologists, it views it as a favour. Because it's mentality is just that removed from anyone else's.

2. Why was synthesis forced anyway? Ifit could not be forced, why do we force it on everyone?

Again, insane troll logic. We're talking about a being who thinks the only way to prevent you from being killed by synthetics is by killing you with synthetics and then calling it something other than killing so it makes it all okay.

Kill = Preserved in Reaper form like some sort of Anatomical Collection at the Walter Reed Medical Museum.  I'd rather die. LOL

Let me help....
 
It's called perserving. And yes it can be done that way...
http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien 

The virtual aliens[/b] are a race of some one billion individuals who downloaded their minds into a virtual world aboard a starship long ago to avoid the destruction of their civilization. As of 2185 CE, the virtual aliens have established diplomatic contact with the Citadel Council in order to secure a new power source for the systems that maintain their virtual world. The aliens' name for themselves is currently unknown.
Cerberus Daily News: "Alien Ghost Ship Encounter" storyline 

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

That makes no sense. Your talk about a being that is already imposing his beliefs on everyone via the reaper solution...Suddenly, you believe he wants you to choose?

From 3 choices that it has predetermined.
Synthesis is it's idea of being magnanimous.

Added, he didn't end no it could be do this way before the crucible was hooked up.

The hell are you saying?

2.The fact you still believe that now shows you don't get it.....Let me help....
 
It's called perserving. And yes it can be done that way...
http://masseffect.wi...i/Virtual_Alien 

Your body is melted. Your mind is destroyed. The structure of your mind is somehow copied and uploaded into a gestalt entity in which you have no individual say. You are dead in every sense of the word. A program that contains your memories is preserved. That is not the same.

Also, tell this to vent boy. I think he may have an issue with the idea that he was preserved since, you know, he wasn't.