238 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyberfrog81]

Star fury wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

Miranda cares about her sister. Then Ice Queen supports destruction of Collectors' base.

Character development. Miranda the trusted, loyal Cerberus operative is not "nice" the way Jacob and Kelly are "nice".

Kelly couldn't warn you about hoax because it wasn't hoax in ME2 before Bioware change lead writer. Pure retcon.

Nonsense. You just don't want to admit that they fooled you. Kelly was as clueless as your Shepard.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

dreman9999 wrote...
2. It not lazy writing. it's just you not paying attetion. Did you turn off your ears during cronos station?

I could always buy how Cerberus managed to get a well trained ground army.

The fleet itself? No, sorry, that is simply BS. I don't care what tools you have, building a fleet from scratch after your group suffered severe setbacks in 6 months is simply too much for me to buy.

Just my two cents.

[Baronesa]

Seriously...

If your argument is that Reapers do not kill but preserve people...

Explain all those places they simply don't bother to harvest and just destroy...

And then if they are not killing and just preserving us and helping us ascend... WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FIGHTING AGAINST THEM?

[Ledgend1221]

I thought cerberus always had cruisers?

[The Angry One]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I thought cerberus always had cruisers?

They had civilian ships and maybe a couple of cruisers.
Suddenly in 6 months they have enough ships to challenge the entire 5th fleet.

[Ledgend1221]

The Angry One wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I thought cerberus always had cruisers?

They had civilian ships and maybe a couple of cruisers.
Suddenly in 6 months they have enough ships to challenge the entire 5th fleet.

But they r haz reaperz upgrades!

[Star fury]

dreman9999 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

Miranda cares about her sister. Then Ice Queen supports destruction of Collectors' base. What else do you need? Kelly couldn't warn you about hoax because it wasn't hoax in ME2 before Bioware change lead writer. Pure retcon.

I think Cerberus had million soldiers thanks to Sanctuary. Cerberus-Reapers relationship is mind-boggling, mostly because of lazy writing.

1. Miranda being human does not mean cerberus is good. Kelly obviously did know about the hoax, it's shown in ME3 she was just as conned as anyone else that beleive cerberus was good.

2. It not lazy writing. it's just you not paying attetion. Did you turn off your ears during cronos station?

You give too much credit to Bioware's lead writers.

[dreman9999]

Lizardviking wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
2. It not lazy writing. it's just you not paying attetion. Did you turn off your ears during cronos station?

I could always buy how Cerberus managed to get a well trained ground army.

The fleet itself? No, sorry, that is simply BS. I don't care what tools you have, building a fleet from scratch after your group suffered severe setbacks in 6 months is simply too much for me to buy.

Just my two cents.

How is that bs? All they have to do is make a fabercation plant and use resources form omega. Cerberus is a group that uses a starship company as a cover. It's notlike thay don't know how to make starships.

[The Angry One]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I thought cerberus always had cruisers?

They had civilian ships and maybe a couple of cruisers.
Suddenly in 6 months they have enough ships to challenge the entire 5th fleet.

But they r haz reaperz upgrades!

"How did I get so many ships? You see Shepard, I found something even the Reapers weren't aware of."





"You mind not stealing my ideas? Jerk."

[dreman9999]

Star fury wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Cyberfrog81 wrote...
Miranda isn't "nice" as much as she is cold and efficient. But she gets significant character development. Also, Kelly is too nice. Kelly should've made you realize that something is off about this crew. And in ME3 it is confirmed: TIM deceived you, he put a prettier face on Cerberus, but there was no real change from ME1. The real motivation was always to get his hands on the kind of tech that would allow humanity to dominate.

As for ME3, the story explains their manpower, but it takes more than a few thousand indoctrinated, Reaper tech-infested refugees to run a galactic empire. You can sort of get a vague idea that the Reapers are behind the "new" Cerberus, but I won't blame people for not being satisfied with that.

Miranda cares about her sister. Then Ice Queen supports destruction of Collectors' base. What else do you need? Kelly couldn't warn you about hoax because it wasn't hoax in ME2 before Bioware change lead writer. Pure retcon.

I think Cerberus had million soldiers thanks to Sanctuary. Cerberus-Reapers relationship is mind-boggling, mostly because of lazy writing.

1. Miranda being human does not mean cerberus is good. Kelly obviously did know about the hoax, it's shown in ME3 she was just as conned as anyone else that beleive cerberus was good.

2. It not lazy writing. it's just you not paying attetion. Did you turn off your ears during cronos station?

You give too much credit to Bioware's lead writers.

1. Kelly herself in ME3 tells you she was fooled and left cerberus. Then if she was excicuted if you don't tell he to change her ID...Yourself if you think cerberus could ever be trusted.
Added, cronos station explaines everything any way.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 04:51 .

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I thought cerberus always had cruisers?

They had civilian ships and maybe a couple of cruisers.
Suddenly in 6 months they have enough ships to challenge the entire 5th fleet.

But they r haz reaperz upgrades!

"How did I get so many ships? You see Shepard, I found something even the Reapers weren't aware of."





"You mind not stealing my ideas? Jerk."

Cerberus used ship making companizes as covers. It would not be hard for cerberus to make a fabercation factory to make ships. Heck, we even have to take control of one of there fighter bases in a submission in ME3.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 04:56 .

[xsdob]

If you read ascension, play mass effect 2, read retribution, and than play mass effect 3 like I did before the release, cerberus's actions start making a hell of a lot more sense imo.

They're an organization who does evil things and has a very charismatic leader.

[dreman9999]

Baronesa wrote...

Seriously...

If your argument is that Reapers do not kill but preserve people...

Explain all those places they simply don't bother to harvest and just destroy...

And then if they are not killing and just preserving us and helping us ascend... WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FIGHTING AGAINST THEM?

Simple....Because I don't want to be forced to beome a reaper!!!!! Understand that the thing they aredoing wrong is forcing there beliefs on others. Organicsdon't want to be perserved like this.

And the reapers goal is to perserve organic life as an abstract , not as indivisuals. They don't care if some organics die as long as the race is perserved.

[The Angry One]

dreman9999 wrote...

Cerberus used a ship making companizes as covers. It would not be hard for cerberus to make a fabercation factory to make ships. Heck, we even have to take control of one of there fighter bases in a submission in ME3.

Dreman I'd take you more seriously if you didn't blindly defend absolutely everything, including things that make many pro-enders balk.

There is no way Cerberus could manufacture a fleet large enough to challenge the Alliance 5th fleet in six months. None. I don't care if they have more money than god and control of every shipyard in the galaxy. Making ships takes time and resources.

Just for comparison, the human fleets still haven't replaced all their losses if you save the Destiny-Ascension, and that was 2 years ago.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 août 2012 - 04:57 .

[xsdob]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Cerberus used a ship making companizes as covers. It would not be hard for cerberus to make a fabercation factory to make ships. Heck, we even have to take control of one of there fighter bases in a submission in ME3.

Dreman I'd take you more seriously if you didn't blindly defend absolutely everything, including things that make many pro-enders balk.

There is no way Cerberus could manufacture a fleet large enough to challenge the Alliance 5th fleet in six months. None. I don't care if they have more money than god and control of every shipyard in the galaxy. Making ships takes time and resources.

Just for comparison, the human fleets still haven't replaced all their losses if you save the Destiny-Ascension, and that was 2 years ago.

6 Months? They've been doing it for years according to drew and his books. Infiltratring every level of the alliance to gain their secrets and designs, than send them over to be reproduced for their forces.

Also, they built a new normandy better and more improved normandy in 2 years and without anyone noticing, as the rear admiral from ME1 said, "We could have built a heavy crusier with those resources."

So yes, IMO cerberus could have gotten the man power and the fleet neccisary to make them a viable threat to the alliance

Modifié par xsdob, 17 août 2012 - 05:01 .

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Cerberus used a ship making companizes as covers. It would not be hard for cerberus to make a fabercation factory to make ships. Heck, we even have to take control of one of there fighter bases in a submission in ME3.

Dreman I'd take you more seriously if you didn't blindly defend absolutely everything, including things that make many pro-enders balk.

There is no way Cerberus could manufacture a fleet large enough to challenge the Alliance 5th fleet in six months. None. I don't care if they have more money than god and control of every ship yard in the galaxy. Making ships takes time and resources.

Wait, werein the plot is it ever shown that cerberus is directly taking on alliance fleets? Nothing is shown that cerberus fleets are equal to the alliances. Heck, the allice mopped out the cerberus fleet at the end of the game with no problem. The only reason the cerberus fleet is a problem is because the alliace fllet is in a weeked state because of the reaper was and can't directly locate cerberus. Cerberus only has an advantage over the alliance on the ground war, not space. Cerberus has a fleet, but it no equal in power to the alliance fleet.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Seriously...

If your argument is that Reapers do not kill but preserve people...

Explain all those places they simply don't bother to harvest and just destroy...

And then if they are not killing and just preserving us and helping us ascend... WHY THE HELL ARE YOU FIGHTING AGAINST THEM?

Simple....Because I don't want to be forced to beome a reaper!!!!! Understand that the thing they aredoing wrong is forcing there beliefs on others. Organicsdon't want to be perserved like this.

And the reapers goal is to perserve organic life as an abstract , not as indivisuals. They don't care if some organics die as long as the race is perserved.

the race is not perserved everything about them is gone and destroyed

and you still didn't answer my question as to why the Catalyst show emotion when you refuse him

[dreman9999]

xsdob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Cerberus used a ship making companizes as covers. It would not be hard for cerberus to make a fabercation factory to make ships. Heck, we even have to take control of one of there fighter bases in a submission in ME3.

Dreman I'd take you more seriously if you didn't blindly defend absolutely everything, including things that make many pro-enders balk.

There is no way Cerberus could manufacture a fleet large enough to challenge the Alliance 5th fleet in six months. None. I don't care if they have more money than god and control of every shipyard in the galaxy. Making ships takes time and resources.

Just for comparison, the human fleets still haven't replaced all their losses if you save the Destiny-Ascension, and that was 2 years ago.

6 Months? They've been doing it for years according to drew and his books.

That's a good point. The ship can easilly be made form before ME3.

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

6 Months? They've been doing it for years
according to drew and his books. Infiltratring every level of the
alliance to gain their secrets and designs, than send them over to be
reproduced for their forces.

Did I say they had no ships? No. I said they never had enough to form a fleet capable of engaging the Alliance in a full scale battle.

If they did then... why bring back Shepard? Protect the colonies with the fleets.
Hey look, these colonies will be grateful to Cerberus and TIM won't even need indoctrination, he'll have more recruits than he knows what to do with. Then get that Reaper IFF, install it on the fleet and jump to the Collector base. That fleet vs. the Collectors? The fleet is going to win.

Also, they built a new normandy
better and more improved normandy in 2 years and without anyone
noticing, as the rear admiral from ME1 said, "We could have built a
heavy crusier with those resources."

So yes, IMO cerberus could have gotten the man power and the fleet neccisary to make them a viable threat to the alliance

Because hyperbole is fact now. They might've been able to build a heavy cruiser around a core as dense as the Normandy's but with the same resources? Look at their sizes! Cruisers are bigger, have more and bigger weapons, and so on.

Nevermind that the Normandy or a single heavy cruiser is ONE SHIP.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 août 2012 - 05:05 .

[xsdob]

The Angry One wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Wait, werein the plot is it ever shown that cerberus is directly taking on alliance fleets? Nothing is shown that cerberus fleets are equal to the alliances. Heck, the allice mopped out the cerberus fleet at the end of the game with no problem. The only reason the cerberus fleet is a problem is because the alliace fllet is in a weeked state because of the reaper was and can't directly locate cerberus. Cerberus only has an advantage over the alliance on the ground war, not space. Cerberus has a fleet, but it no equal in power to the alliance fleet.

What game did you play? The Cerberus fleet doesn't just roll over. It puts up a fight. The 5th fleet may be superior, but they still have enough ships to give them pause. That is absurd in itself.

Please show me proof that cerberus was not deleoping ships until shepard was sent back to earth in the ME universe.

Also, fifth fleet was pretty much almost wiped out by the reapers, and required hackett to leave second fleet to be destroyed so he and third fleet could escape.

I don't think they're in much shape to contend with cerberus, espically if their fleets were enough to take on cerberus.

Modifié par xsdob, 17 août 2012 - 05:09 .

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

Please show me proof that cerberus was not deleoping ships until shepard was sent back to earth in the ME universe.

Again, don't strawman what I'm saying.
I've said they likely always had some cruisers, but that the number they have by the time of ME3 is absurd.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Please show me proof that cerberus was not deleoping ships until shepard was sent back to earth in the ME universe.

Again, don't strawman what I'm saying.
I've said they likely always had some cruisers, but that the number they have by the time of ME3 is absurd.

He has a point you have no proof of what your say. What were the loses of the alliace fleet in the battle of cronos station?We were able to take tat fleet to earth with no lose of battle power. Heck, the alliace was able to mop up the fleet before the mission was even done and started to directly attack the station.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[Star fury]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I thought cerberus always had cruisers?

They had civilian ships and maybe a couple of cruisers.
Suddenly in 6 months they have enough ships to challenge the entire 5th fleet.

But they r haz reaperz upgrades!

"How did I get so many ships? You see Shepard, I found something even the Reapers weren't aware of."





"You mind not stealing my ideas? Jerk."

Cerberus used ship making companizes as covers. It would not be hard for cerberus to make a fabercation factory to make ships. Heck, we even have to take control of one of there fighter bases in a submission in ME3.

I had this argument before... So Alliance let shipbuilding companies to produce CRUISERS for terrorists? To build a fleet that can rival entire Alliance fleet? And how they explain it to Alliance admirals? "Sorry sir, you can't get that ship, it's for Cerberus. Wait your turn, please."    

Also equipping and supplying million soldiers.

Modifié par Star fury, 17 août 2012 - 05:14 .

[xsdob]

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Please show me proof that cerberus was not deleoping ships until shepard was sent back to earth in the ME universe.

Again, don't strawman what I'm saying.
I've said they likely always had some cruisers, but that the number they have by the time of ME3 is absurd.

A few crusiers I believe is an understatement, espically seeing how many are seen in this cutscene.


Also, the allaince fleets were all severly weakened by the reapers attack, making it much easier for cerberus to take them on.

Modifié par xsdob, 17 août 2012 - 05:11 .

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

A few crusiers I believe is an understatement, espically seeing how many are seen in this cutscene.


Also, the allaince fleets were all severly weakened by the reapers attack, making it much easier for cerberus to take them on.

Yeah. Notice how those don't look anything like cruisers and are likely cargo or science ships.