238 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

I think people need to realize space is massive, really massive. Hell we got entire terminus systems where alliance has no control over, humasn go there to get away from alliance etc.

[dreman9999]

General User wrote...

xsdob wrote...

General User wrote...

Are there hidden shipyards somewhere that large fleets can be built in secret for interested private parties?

Yes, that's how the corporatist fleet that invaded gavrog got their fleets, and how noveria has their own fleet. When you have enough money, you can manage to build yourself a military force.

And those forces were raised in secret?

You missing the fact that no one ca see everything going on is space at once. What would propmt anyone form even knowing something is being build. If we can build the crucible with out the reapers knowing, why can't cerberus build a fleet without us knowing?

[Baronesa]

Why none of these corporate fleets and forces joined the fight?

If they are enough to challenge a Batarian fleet or Alliance and Turian Fleets... how come they didn't help or joined on the Reaper war?

How many of these corporations do have their own fleets and resources? What are their combined numbers? Roughly equal to the combined forces of the Citadel? Bigger? smaller? 1/3? 4/5?

[dreman9999]

Baronesa wrote...

Why none of these corporate fleets and forces joined the fight?

If they are enough to challenge a Batarian fleet or Alliance and Turian Fleets... how come they didn't help or joined on the Reaper war?

How many of these corporations do have their own fleets and resources? What are their combined numbers? Roughly equal to the combined forces of the Citadel? Bigger? smaller? 1/3? 4/5?

Who says they are not or still standing? The fleet can ether be alrady helping or already wiped out.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 05:56 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

So if Cerberus was building cruisers left and right then how come they had to steal the drive core for the Normandy SR 2?

It's not like the writers when writing ME 2 recognized the problem of a small terrorist organization making a hyper advanced and incredibly expensive starship felt like they had to come up with a reasoning to how this terrorist organization procured the most expensive part of the ship... and when ME 3 came around they just said "aww F''' it".

[DecCylonus]

In the 1930's, Japan managed to build the Yamato class dreadnoughts - the largest battleships ever built - in complete secrecy. Nobody outside of Japan knew about them until they were photographed, fully operational. The deception was so complete that the size of their guns, armor specs, etc. were not known until records were found after WWII. The point is that it isn't hard to hide the logistics involved in building a ship. You falsify the material manifests so that nobody knows what the materials are being used for, and you build it somewhere out of sight. Space is huge, so Cerberus could have built their warships anywhere. Since they own ship building companies, they have the technology and expertise.

As for why they needed Shepard, nobody knew how to navigate the Omega 4 Relay. All they knew is that no ships come back, which means it's a bad idea to send your prized fleet through. They also knew that the Collectors had destroyed the most advanced human ship, which meant there is no gaurantee that their cruisers could go toe-to-toe with the Collectors. Just because ships are the same size doesn't mean they are evenly matched.

Modifié par DecCylonus, 17 août 2012 - 05:58 .

[dreman9999]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So if Cerberus was building cruisers left and right then how come they had to steal the drive core for the Normandy SR 2?

...They did not steal the drive core for the sr2. They build it themselves

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 août 2012 - 05:58 .

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

So because you can't accept that the alliance fleets took a massive beating from the reapers, everything is just plain impossible now.

The Fifth Fleet is largely intact, it's major losses occuring from whether you save the Ascension or not. Read the war assets page.
Also, answer my question. Where was Cerberus' fleet in ME2?

[xsdob]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So if Cerberus was building cruisers left and right then how come they had to steal the drive core for the Normandy SR 2?

It's not like the writers when writing ME 2 recognized the problem of a small terrorist organization making a hyper advanced and incredibly expensive starship felt like they had to come up with a reasoning to how this terrorist organization procured the most expensive part of the ship... and when ME 3 came around they just said "aww F''' it".

Maybe becasue the normandy's drive core is different from other ships? You know, with it's heat dispensing tech making it undetectable to other ships and the whole reason why the normandy was so special in the first place.

But whatevs, if they couldn't make a highly advanced prototype of a drive core, theirs no way they could make a standard issue run of the mill drive core either right? That's just insanity.

[zeypher]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So if Cerberus was building cruisers left and right then how come they had to steal the drive core for the Normandy SR 2?

It's not like the writers when writing ME 2 recognized the problem of a small terrorist organization making a hyper advanced and incredibly expensive starship felt like they had to come up with a reasoning to how this terrorist organization procured the most expensive part of the ship... and when ME 3 came around they just said "aww F''' it".

What drive core. They didnt steal a drive core. Cerberus had plans for the original normandy because they pushed the alliance to mak one in the first place. The SR-1 wouldnt have been made was it not for cerberus.

[xsdob]

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

So because you can't accept that the alliance fleets took a massive beating from the reapers, everything is just plain impossible now.

The Fifth Fleet is largely intact, it's major losses occuring from whether you save the Ascension or not. Read the war assets page.
Also, answer my question. Where was Cerberus' fleet in ME2?

More than likley? In the Anadius system of the horse head nebula.

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

So because you can't accept that the alliance fleets took a massive beating from the reapers, everything is just plain impossible now.

The Fifth Fleet is largely intact, it's major losses occuring from whether you save the Ascension or not. Read the war assets page.
Also, answer my question. Where was Cerberus' fleet in ME2?

More than likley? In the Anadius system of the horse head nebula.

Don't be disingenuous. You know what I meant.
Why weren't they protecting the colonies and securing the collector base?

[General User]

dreman9999 wrote...

General User wrote...

xsdob wrote...

General User wrote...

Are there hidden shipyards somewhere that large fleets can be built in secret for interested private parties?

Yes, that's how the corporatist fleet that invaded gavrog got their fleets, and how noveria has their own fleet. When you have enough money, you can manage to build yourself a military force.

And those forces were raised in secret?

You missing the fact that no one ca see everything going on is space at once. What would propmt anyone form even knowing something is being build. If we can build the crucible with out the reapers knowing, why can't cerberus build a fleet without us knowing?

Because in order to build a fleet of that scale in secret you'd need active help from a major faction.  Either that or be working to a plan with  a decades or even centuries long time frame.  Or both.  Cerberus had neither.  Besides, the Reapers knew we were building the Crucible, they just couldn't (or didn't) stop us.

A single ship like the SR-2 sure, maybe even a squadron or three of light-medium combatants, but for a whole fleet!  It just doesn't hold up without some sort of explanation.

Modifié par General User, 17 août 2012 - 06:03 .

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Who said I did? I don't beleive we have to be turned o reaper to stop organics and synthetic from killing each other.
I'm just explaining his logic. I destroyed him.
2."
 why the Catalyst shows emotion when you refuse him. "
Because he knows that he missed the last chance he ever will have to solve the problem he is given and the next cycle will destory him.

and know him having emotions makes him not Shackled right?

Emotion is not an indicator of being unshackled.Even EDI had emotions when she was shackle. She was even  upset to the point to threaten joker when she was shackled.

[KENNY4753]

Hrothdane wrote...

The way I have chosen to make sense of the dichotomy between super-evil Cerberus and well-intentioned extremist Cerberus is that it was always super-evil. Keep in mind, that while I have some circumstantial evidence that supports my theory, I don't think of it as anything more than headcanon.

We know that TIM organized Cerberus into independent cells with no connection to each other. We also know that he specifically set up the Normandy SR-2 and the crew as a method to make Shepard more "comfortable" working with him. The Illusive Man created the "illusion" that Cerberus was really just a well-intentioned group with extreme methods for Shepard. He never cared about the human colonists, except inasmuch as he needed to to keep Shepard working for him. He wanted the Collector technology for himself so that he could move forward with his other plans, which is why he gets so angry and even orders Miranda to stop Shepard when he/she decides to destroy the base.

Completely agree

[xsdob]

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

So because you can't accept that the alliance fleets took a massive beating from the reapers, everything is just plain impossible now.

The Fifth Fleet is largely intact, it's major losses occuring from whether you save the Ascension or not. Read the war assets page.
Also, answer my question. Where was Cerberus' fleet in ME2?

More than likley? In the Anadius system of the horse head nebula.

Don't be disingenuous. You know what I meant.
Why weren't they protecting the colonies and securing the collector base?

In all honesty, I think it was because they never cared about the colonies and just wanted to know more about the collectors. They were still trying to figure out what the collectors were doing, what their capabilities were, and how to get to them through the omega 4 relay. Shepard did all of that for them, espically getting the reaper IFF and manageing to make sure it wasn't bobby trapped.

In mass effect invasion we see not only cerberus's fleet take over omega, but that they have secure what was beyond the omega 4 relay and even built a base of operations there.

[DecCylonus]

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

So because you can't accept that the alliance fleets took a massive beating from the reapers, everything is just plain impossible now.

The Fifth Fleet is largely intact, it's major losses occuring from whether you save the Ascension or not. Read the war assets page.
Also, answer my question. Where was Cerberus' fleet in ME2?

More than likley? In the Anadius system of the horse head nebula.

Don't be disingenuous. You know what I meant.
Why weren't they protecting the colonies and securing the collector base?

Because they couldn't predict the Collector's movements. That is stated outright in ME2. They had to figure out it was the Collectors first, then lure them to Horizon by planting intelligence. It was a one time trick that they didn't have the knowledge to pull before Shepard.

As for the Collector Base, no ship ever returned from the Omega 4 Relay. TIM isn't stupid. Why send a fleet of warships into a relay that eats ships? Send a scout first (Shepard) and don't send your fleet if you don't have to. Just because Cerberus can build ships doesn't mean they can afford to lose them on foolish gambles.

[Hrothdane]

I also wanted to mention tha Donovan Hock has a factory producing mechs and tanks IN HIS BASEMENT, on the planet equivalent of Beverly Hills. In the same cluster as the Citadel.

Combine that with Eclipse having a fleet that could match the Batarian's, and the fact that the Cerberus fleet doesn't even do enough damage to the Alliance fleet to cause a drop in war assets, and it seems perfectly plausible.

Also, Cerberus needed a spec ops team in ME2 to find the Collectors, collect the IFF, and deliver an intact Collector base to TIM. Sending in a fleet in this situation would be the equivalent of the US sending the army into Pakistan to get Osama bin Laden instead of Seal Team 6.

[zeypher]

Wait even with the base destroyed isnt there a lot of tech just floating around beyong the omega 4 relay. Destroyed ships also means you have good chance of salvaging a lot eezo. Hell just from salvaging the wrecks one can build ships that are space worthy.

Modifié par zeypher, 17 août 2012 - 06:12 .

[dreman9999]

General User wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

General User wrote...

xsdob wrote...

General User wrote...

Are there hidden shipyards somewhere that large fleets can be built in secret for interested private parties?

Yes, that's how the corporatist fleet that invaded gavrog got their fleets, and how noveria has their own fleet. When you have enough money, you can manage to build yourself a military force.

And those forces were raised in secret?

You missing the fact that no one ca see everything going on is space at once. What would propmt anyone form even knowing something is being build. If we can build the crucible with out the reapers knowing, why can't cerberus build a fleet without us knowing?

Because in order to build a fleet of that scale in secret you'd need active help form a major faction.  Either that or be working to a plan with  a decades or even centuries long time frame.  Or both.  Cerberus had neither.  Besides, the Reapers knew we were building the Crucible, they just didn't or couldn't stop us.

A single ship like the SR-2 sure, maybe even a squadron or three of light-medium combatants, but for a whole fleet!  It just doesn't hold up without some sort of explanation.

You have no idea how big space is do you or anything the cerberus did  after ME2?
1. Cerberus did have help. Read ME:RETRIBUTION. It's Aria.

2. The alliance and the citadel would not have the info of logs of what is going on in the terminus systems at all anyway. They have no control over those system and info on what they are doing. Cerbeus could do any thing they want there and no one would know. Hell, cerberus has done this already many time over in ME2.

3.We also have noveria where the production  is keeps away out of council bisness. It takes a spectre to even begin to get through the red tape to get in.

Understand this, space is big. Things can happen in it that people will never know about, and logs can easily be false. It can be stated to be doing one thing at one place and be doing another. For the alliace to even be able to suspect, we have to no where the group is and see the hints of the production. If it done in the terminus and with no way for the alliace to see any logs or transport. They would never know...Same as the council...Andcerberus has been doing this for years.

[The Angry One]

xsdob wrote...

In all honesty, I think it was because they never cared about the colonies and just wanted to know more about the collectors. They were still trying to figure out what the collectors were doing, what their capabilities were, and how to get to them through the omega 4 relay. Shepard did all of that for them, espically getting the reaper IFF and manageing to make sure it wasn't bobby trapped.

Sigh. I've already gone over this. Protecting the colonies gets them free propaganda.
They don't have to care. They both hurt the Collectors and gain loyalty and recruits from the colonies.

They know that the Collectors are kidnapping colonies, which means they have to go there. Which means they can send ships or probes to all colonies, find out that the Collectors have one cruiser and then bring it down.

Even if they had Shepard... why didn't they just shoot down the Collector cruiser when it tried to fake being disabled, salvage *it's* IFF and go to the base that way:?

n mass effect invasion we see not only cerberus's fleet take over omega, but that they have secure what was beyond the omega 4 relay and even built a base of operations there.

Invasion was written for ME3, and carries the same plot hole as ME3's. Where did they pull these ships out of?

[The Angry One]

DecCylonus wrote...

Because they couldn't predict the Collector's movements. That is stated outright in ME2. They had to figure out it was the Collectors first, then lure them to Horizon by planting intelligence. It was a one time trick that they didn't have the knowledge to pull before Shepard.

There are only so many colonies. Place 2 ships to patrol each colony. No more problem.

As for the Collector Base, no ship ever returned from the Omega 4 Relay. TIM isn't stupid. Why send a fleet of warships into a relay that eats ships? Send a scout first (Shepard) and don't send your fleet if you don't have to. Just because Cerberus can build ships doesn't mean they can afford to lose them on foolish gambles.

Or send a probe. You know, like the Shadow Broker did. Put a Reaper IFF on it. When it comes back with the proper data, send the fleet in. LIKE THEY SEND IN A FLEET OF SCIENCE SHIPS IN THE BAD ENDING.

[DecCylonus]

General User wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

General User wrote...

xsdob wrote...

General User wrote...

Are there hidden shipyards somewhere that large fleets can be built in secret for interested private parties?

Yes, that's how the corporatist fleet that invaded gavrog got their fleets, and how noveria has their own fleet. When you have enough money, you can manage to build yourself a military force.

And those forces were raised in secret?

You missing the fact that no one ca see everything going on is space at once. What would propmt anyone form even knowing something is being build. If we can build the crucible with out the reapers knowing, why can't cerberus build a fleet without us knowing?

Because in order to build a fleet of that scale in secret you'd need active help from a major faction.  Either that or be working to a plan with  a decades or even centuries long time frame.  Or both.  Cerberus had neither.  Besides, the Reapers knew we were building the Crucible, they just couldn't (or didn't) stop us.

A single ship like the SR-2 sure, maybe even a squadron or three of light-medium combatants, but for a whole fleet!  It just doesn't hold up without some sort of explanation.

In two years, Cerberus raised the money to resurrect Shepard and build the SR2. It nearly bankrupted them, but they did it. We know that the old SR1 cost as much as several warships, and the SR2 is more advanced. Miranda also hints that the cost of bringing Shepard back was astronomical. Those events clearly state that Cerberus has vast resources. It's ridiculous to argue that they can't afford to build some cruisers. Furthermore, they own ship building companies, so they can build them at cost.

Nothing says that Cerberus had to build their ships all at once. If they can afford the Lazarus project and the SR2 in two years, they could have been building other ships before that. They always conceal their resources and assets, so the fleet very well could have been hanging out at Cronos Station, which the Alliance couldn't find until ME3 either.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. Who said I did? I don't beleive we have to be turned o reaper to stop organics and synthetic from killing each other.
I'm just explaining his logic. I destroyed him.
2."
 why the Catalyst shows emotion when you refuse him. "
Because he knows that he missed the last chance he ever will have to solve the problem he is given and the next cycle will destory him.

and know him having emotions makes him not Shackled right?

Emotion is not an indicator of being unshackled.Even EDI had emotions when she was shackle. She was even  upset to the point to threaten joker when she was shackled.

no she wasn't, it was until she got unshackled went started learning about emotions

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

xsdob wrote...

In all honesty, I think it was because they never cared about the colonies and just wanted to know more about the collectors. They were still trying to figure out what the collectors were doing, what their capabilities were, and how to get to them through the omega 4 relay. Shepard did all of that for them, espically getting the reaper IFF and manageing to make sure it wasn't bobby trapped.

Sigh. I've already gone over this. Protecting the colonies gets them free propaganda.
They don't have to care. They both hurt the Collectors and gain loyalty and recruits from the colonies.

They know that the Collectors are kidnapping colonies, which means they have to go there. Which means they can send ships or probes to all colonies, find out that the Collectors have one cruiser and then bring it down.

Even if they had Shepard... why didn't they just shoot down the Collector cruiser when it tried to fake being disabled, salvage *it's* IFF and go to the base that way:?

n mass effect invasion we see not only cerberus's fleet take over omega, but that they have secure what was beyond the omega 4 relay and even built a base of operations there.

Invasion was written for ME3, and carries the same plot hole as ME3's. Where did they pull these ships out of?

1.The free 
propaganda got many people to join and help cerberus....You just answered you own quetion.
Added, the goal of the mission was get info from the collector on the reapers...blowing up the ship would not help

2.It ws never stated that cerberus can't make ships. In fact it's shown they can. That  station cerberus had to make the normandy can make other ships