238 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainne Chapel]

dreman9999 wrote...

Star fury wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

Star fury wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

In the 1930's, Japan managed to build the Yamato class dreadnoughts - the largest battleships ever built - in complete secrecy.

Yamato example is completely irrelevant. Japan managed to hide these enormous battleships from other countries, mainly from the USA.

Cerberus is a part of Alliance, it's a one country. Cerberus has only ONE shipbuilding company - Cord-Hislop Aerospace as a front corporation. If you want to operate with real-life examples, then Cord-Hislop Aerospace building cruisers for Cerberus is like US corporation building cruisers for Al-Qaeda.

Wrong. Japan hid them from everyone: USA, Britain Germany, etc. The example isn't about countries. It's about the fact that you can hide ship construction by calling it something else in the official records and concealing the construction dock. No paper trail, no visible ship under construction, no suspicion.

Cerberus is not part of the Alliance. It's a terrorist organization that happens to exist within the space claimed by the Alliance. Space, by the way, is huge. Cerberus has successfully hidden space stations that the Alliance couldn't find until ME3. A shipyard is just another space station.

Definition of a front: a legitimate business run by a criminal organization to help conceal illegal activities. It would be stupid to build military vessels at the main Cord-Hislop shipyards in full view of the Alliance, but they don't have to. The fact that Cerberus owns a shipyard means they posess the knowledge to build a ship anywhere they can transport materials and manpower to. Acquiring that knowledge is the hardest part. Once they have it, they can build their own shipyard in an out-of-the-way spot and recruit a workforce that isn't sympathetic to the Alliance. Materials could be funneled through Cord-Hislop and other front companies with falsified records to conceal their true purpose. Problem solved.

Okay, tell me - can Al-Qaeda order cruisers from US company? Can IRA order cruisers from British company? Yes- No. 

Thefact that your missing the scope of eath and space ammuses me. Let me give you a hint. In the matters of space, nothing close of the matter of half the info in is is even gathered by the alliance or the council.

You miss the point if you compear it to the scoop of earth. Info on earth can be easilly controled and found because it's finite. Info in spaceis not because it's near infiante. No where near everything is even brought to the attion of the council let allown the alliance. That's why cerberus can stay so hidden for years.

Yeah I'm gonna have toa gree here, How is Cerberus at all a parallel to Al-Qaeda ordering stuff from the USA?

You seem to be missing the point that Cerberus has access to its own "stuff" in which to construct all that it needs.  Its not like they have to report to the alliance, you forget they infiltrated the alliance and operated at their leisure under the alliances noses.  They were a rogue splinter faction.

It would seem well within their abilities to conceal building a fleet if they can reproduce the galaxies most advanced stealth ship without anyone the wiser.  After all its not like the alliance or council know EVERYTHING that is going on int he galaxy.

It would be impossible for them too know, because if they did... we wouldn't need spectres or have tow orry about the threat of the reapers

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

they tell you that answer in the Cerberus base mission

That's part of the answer. That why they did use normal cerberus crew. I'm taking about the squad.

[F4H bandicoot]

dreman9999 wrote...
Yet, the collectors did....Note:"
The only way to  find it
is to have a way to find it in stealth mode."

The collected did find away and did find it when it was in stealth mode. That's my point.

Yes, the collectors set a trap, waited, and sensed when the Normandy left FTL because their reaper tech can see through the stealth tech of the SR1.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

It won't be the first time that Cerberus used Aliens to help them on their missions if they are suited for the job.

They only do that on the giues of someone else. The alien normally don't know they are working for cerberus.
That or cerberus is using great finacal pay to get them to work with them....No of the squad on the normady were being paid out side of Jacob, Miranda, and Zaeed.
So...
Why did TIM  tell Shepard to get aliens to help on this mission instead of using his own forces to help him? 

again like he said in the Cerberus base mission, he did that so Shepard can have familiar faces and people he would trust more than Cerberus

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

It won't be the first time that Cerberus used Aliens to help them on their missions if they are suited for the job.

They only do that on the giues of someone else. The alien normally don't know they are working for cerberus.
That or cerberus is using great finacal pay to get them to work with them....No of the squad on the normady were being paid out side of Jacob, Miranda, and Zaeed.
So...
Why did TIM  tell Shepard to get aliens to help on this mission instead of using his own forces to help him? 

again like he said in the Cerberus base mission, he did that so Shepard can have familiar faces and people he would trust more than Cerberus

As Isaid before. That is an explinationfor the crew...Not the squad. The crew was friendly faces...The squad was alians that never normaly work with cerberus.

[F4H bandicoot]

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

It won't be the first time that Cerberus used Aliens to help them on their missions if they are suited for the job.

They only do that on the giues of someone else. The alien normally don't know they are working for cerberus.
That or cerberus is using great finacal pay to get them to work with them....No of the squad on the normady were being paid out side of Jacob, Miranda, and Zaeed.
So...
Why did TIM  tell Shepard to get aliens to help on this mission instead of using his own forces to help him? 

again like he said in the Cerberus base mission, he did that so Shepard can have familiar faces and people he would trust more than Cerberus

As Isaid before. That is an explinationfor the crew...Not the squad. The crew was friendly faces...The squad was alians that never normaly work with cerberus.

The squad works for shep...

[Cainne Chapel]

Angry One I have to say....Not quite sure what the argument here is.

Your posts seem to be mostly based off of what if's and conjecture.... so I'm not getting what or where the argument on your side is coming from.

Its almost as if you're arguing for what if this happened this way and not quite why it happened the way it did.

[dreman9999]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yet, the collectors did....Note:"
The only way to  find it
is to have a way to find it in stealth mode."

The collected did find away and did find it when it was in stealth mode. That's my point.

Yes, the collectors set a trap, waited, and sensed when the Normandy left FTL because their reaper tech can see through the stealth tech of the SR1.

You missing the point.If the sr1goes to stealth is can't be found...EVEN IF YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S GENERAL AREA IS AT.
If you know where the genral area of the ship is, you still don't know where the ship is if stealthed. You can't shoot at it like that if you have no way to get through it's stealth tech. To even attack the normady, the collectors have to bypass the stealth systems to shoot it down. If the collectors did it in when the normady is in stealth mode , that means it can find it no matter what.

[DeathScepter]

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Angry One I have to say....Not quite sure what the argument here is.

Your posts seem to be mostly based off of what if's and conjecture.... so I'm not getting what or where the argument on your side is coming from.

Its almost as if you're arguing for what if this happened this way and not quite why it happened the way it did.

The Angry One's point is that Cerberus as of ME2 was supposed to be much smaller compared to what we saw in ME 3.

If Cerberus had the fleets ready like what we saw in ME3, the point of Shepard working for Cerberus would be moot point.

[dreman9999]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

It won't be the first time that Cerberus used Aliens to help them on their missions if they are suited for the job.

They only do that on the giues of someone else. The alien normally don't know they are working for cerberus.
That or cerberus is using great finacal pay to get them to work with them....No of the squad on the normady were being paid out side of Jacob, Miranda, and Zaeed.
So...
Why did TIM  tell Shepard to get aliens to help on this mission instead of using his own forces to help him? 

again like he said in the Cerberus base mission, he did that so Shepard can have familiar faces and people he would trust more than Cerberus

As Isaid before. That is an explinationfor the crew...Not the squad. The crew was friendly faces...The squad was alians that never normaly work with cerberus.

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

[DeathScepter]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yet, the collectors did....Note:"
The only way to  find it
is to have a way to find it in stealth mode."

The collected did find away and did find it when it was in stealth mode. That's my point.

Yes, the collectors set a trap, waited, and sensed when the Normandy left FTL because their reaper tech can see through the stealth tech of the SR1.

You missing the point.If the sr1goes to stealth is can't be found...EVEN IF YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S GENERAL AREA IS AT.
If you know where the genral area of the ship is, you still don't know where the ship is if stealthed. You can't shoot at it like that if you have no way to get through it's stealth tech. To even attack the normady, the collectors have to bypass the stealth systems to shoot it down. If the collectors did it in when the normady is in stealth mode , that means it can find it no matter what.

Supposedly Collector and Reaper Technology are supposedly superior to Alliance technology.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yet, the collectors did....Note:"
The only way to  find it
is to have a way to find it in stealth mode."

The collected did find away and did find it when it was in stealth mode. That's my point.

Yes, the collectors set a trap, waited, and sensed when the Normandy left FTL because their reaper tech can see through the stealth tech of the SR1.

You missing the point.If the sr1goes to stealth is can't be found...EVEN IF YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S GENERAL AREA IS AT.
If you know where the genral area of the ship is, you still don't know where the ship is if stealthed. You can't shoot at it like that if you have no way to get through it's stealth tech. To even attack the normady, the collectors have to bypass the stealth systems to shoot it down. If the collectors did it in when the normady is in stealth mode , that means it can find it no matter what.

he just said that their reaper tech could see through the SR1 stealth tech

[F4H bandicoot]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yet, the collectors did....Note:"
The only way to  find it
is to have a way to find it in stealth mode."

The collected did find away and did find it when it was in stealth mode. That's my point.

Yes, the collectors set a trap, waited, and sensed when the Normandy left FTL because their reaper tech can see through the stealth tech of the SR1.

You missing the point.If the sr1goes to stealth is can't be found...EVEN IF YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S GENERAL AREA IS AT.
If you know where the genral area of the ship is, you still don't know where the ship is if stealthed. You can't shoot at it like that if you have no way to get through it's stealth tech. To even attack the normady, the collectors have to bypass the stealth systems to shoot it down. If the collectors did it in when the normady is in stealth mode , that means it can find it no matter what.

Did you not read??

[dreman9999]

DeathScepter wrote...

Cainne Chapel wrote...

Angry One I have to say....Not quite sure what the argument here is.

Your posts seem to be mostly based off of what if's and conjecture.... so I'm not getting what or where the argument on your side is coming from.

Its almost as if you're arguing for what if this happened this way and not quite why it happened the way it did.

The Angry One's point is that Cerberus as of ME2 was supposed to be much smaller compared to what we saw in ME 3.

If Cerberus had the fleets ready like what we saw in ME3, the point of Shepard working for Cerberus would be moot point.

If cerberus had fleets in ME2...Would TIm even let Shepard know about them? Also, nothing is shown in th eplot that has cerberus fleets equal in power the alliance fleet.

[AresKeith]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

[dreman9999]

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Yet, the collectors did....Note:"
The only way to  find it
is to have a way to find it in stealth mode."

The collected did find away and did find it when it was in stealth mode. That's my point.

Yes, the collectors set a trap, waited, and sensed when the Normandy left FTL because their reaper tech can see through the stealth tech of the SR1.

You missing the point.If the sr1goes to stealth is can't be found...EVEN IF YOU KNOW WHERE IT'S GENERAL AREA IS AT.
If you know where the genral area of the ship is, you still don't know where the ship is if stealthed. You can't shoot at it like that if you have no way to get through it's stealth tech. To even attack the normady, the collectors have to bypass the stealth systems to shoot it down. If the collectors did it in when the normady is in stealth mode , that means it can find it no matter what.

Supposedly Collector and Reaper Technology are supposedly superior to Alliance technology.

That clearly is an absoult.

[DeathScepter]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

It won't be the first time that Cerberus used Aliens to help them on their missions if they are suited for the job.

They only do that on the giues of someone else. The alien normally don't know they are working for cerberus.
That or cerberus is using great finacal pay to get them to work with them....No of the squad on the normady were being paid out side of Jacob, Miranda, and Zaeed.
So...
Why did TIM  tell Shepard to get aliens to help on this mission instead of using his own forces to help him? 

again like he said in the Cerberus base mission, he did that so Shepard can have familiar faces and people he would trust more than Cerberus

As Isaid before. That is an explinationfor the crew...Not the squad. The crew was friendly faces...The squad was alians that never normaly work with cerberus.

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

That is true. The best terms I can think of, the writing in Mass Effect 3 is quite odd. Ranging from Cerberus to Udina, to the ending to other aspects.

It would be odd to have a purely human squad for Mass Effect 2 come off Mass Effect 1. Maybe too much nerd rage.

A lot of people are fans of Garrus, Tali and other alien species. So why not having aliens on your squad for ME 2 while working for Cerberus.

[F4H bandicoot]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

TIM says this in the first 10 minutes of ME2..

[dreman9999]

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

He's with cerberus anyway. Trust is not an issue. Tim can order all the cerberus peopel to just lie with made up stories. Or even have the more grey protion of his soldiers do the mission.
My point is that he did this as an issue of long term resources. Having a squad of aliens do the mission has him lose nothing in terms of resources if they die.

[dreman9999]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

TIM says this in the first 10 minutes of ME2..

No he did not.

[RiouHotaru]

Hrothdane wrote...
We know that TIM organized Cerberus into independent cells with no connection to each other. We also know that he specifically set up the Normandy SR-2 and the crew as a method to make Shepard more "comfortable" working with him. The Illusive Man created the "illusion" that Cerberus was really just a well-intentioned group with extreme methods for Shepard. He never cared about the human colonists, except inasmuch as he needed to to keep Shepard working for him. He wanted the Collector technology for himself so that he could move forward with his other plans, which is why he gets so angry and even orders Miranda to stop Shepard when he/she decides to destroy the base.

This.  We need to keep this post around so ANYTIME a discussion of Cerberus comes up, we can use this argument.  Cerberus' portrayal was always right on.  TIM is just a manipulative jerk.

[hypnotizedmind]

Because TIM is trying to maintain Sheps loyalty and individuality.

Picking your own team means picking people that you know, and that you can trust, as opposed to getting these randoms pushed on you.

[dreman9999]

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

DeathScepter wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Right, but using their fleet to stop the Collectors and secure the base works even better than using Shepard. Everything I've said is from the perspective of Cerberus promoting a selfish agenda, everything would benefit them in the end.
They have no reason to not use their fleet, the only reason they don't use it is because they don't have it.

that is true and One of the books, several of their bases were heavily damaged by the Turians.


So BAD writing for the Win.

No the case at all. Ask your self this. TIM had many teams of soldiers under his command...Why did TIM  tell Shepardto get aliens to hepl on this mission in stead of using his own forces to help him?

It won't be the first time that Cerberus used Aliens to help them on their missions if they are suited for the job.

They only do that on the giues of someone else. The alien normally don't know they are working for cerberus.
That or cerberus is using great finacal pay to get them to work with them....No of the squad on the normady were being paid out side of Jacob, Miranda, and Zaeed.
So...
Why did TIM  tell Shepard to get aliens to help on this mission instead of using his own forces to help him? 

again like he said in the Cerberus base mission, he did that so Shepard can have familiar faces and people he would trust more than Cerberus

As Isaid before. That is an explinationfor the crew...Not the squad. The crew was friendly faces...The squad was alians that never normaly work with cerberus.

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

That is true. The best terms I can think of, the writing in Mass Effect 3 is quite odd. Ranging from Cerberus to Udina, to the ending to other aspects.

It would be odd to have a purely human squad for Mass Effect 2 come off Mass Effect 1. Maybe too much nerd rage.

A lot of people are fans of Garrus, Tali and other alien species. So why not having aliens on your squad for ME 2 while working for Cerberus.

My point is that he did this as an issue of long term resources. Having a squad of aliens do the mission has him lose nothing in terms of resources if they die.

[F4H bandicoot]

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The squad works for shep...

I know that, but why not just give Shepard a squad instead of having him get it on his own? Cerberus has the people who can fight at Shepards side, why make him get a squad?

I just said why, because the Shepard would trust them over Cerberus

TIM says this in the first 10 minutes of ME2..

No he did not.

I believe the line goes something like " S/He needs faces S/He can trust."

[dreman9999]

hypnotizedmind wrote...

Because TIM is trying to maintain Sheps loyalty and individuality.

Picking your own team means picking people that you know, and that you can trust, as opposed to getting these randoms pushed on you.

That just TIM stringing him along. He is using you till he is done with you.