288 réponses à ce sujet

[Alien Number Six]

Have to work today for twelve hours or I would be playing.

[3DandBeyond]

Hammer6767 wrote...

3DandBeyond, I think you missed my point. It is that there is nothing wrong with complaining...just that repetitive complaining over the same thing (even though it will not change) is obsessive and it doesn't shine positively on the people in this forum that continue to troll every positive sounding post with another ending comment.

I think you got lost in the sick/association point you were trying to make. If you got food poisoning at your favorite restaurant, would you go back every night just to complain about it?

Also, to the other team who worked on MP for ME3. I thought Gamble said the team was put together specifically for that project? They also said ME3 had the largest team of all three games, by far. So, the insinuation that throwing more people at the project would make it "better" isn't something you can objectively substantiate. Having gone from a small company to one of the largest in the world, I can assure you that bigger teams with more budget does not always equal a better product.

I agree bigger teams doesn't make things better necessarily.  The point I was trying to make is that they could have used resources spent on making that team in making ME3 more polished.  It is full of crazy bugs, not game breakers but random stuff that shows QA was not paying attention.  Less money spent on MP could have been used on QA.  I can't count the number of times there are weird head turns (one literally looks like Shepard is in the Exorcist with eyes rolling and head flopping back and forth) and other places where characters are not even looking at each other while talking.  Then there's the lousy out of sequence dialogue in places.

But along with this the game could have been and needed to be bigger and have fewer fetch quests that make no sense.  What are all those fleets doing at random planets in reaper controlled areas and why do you have to search for them?

As for getting food poisoning.  No, I wouldn't necessarily continually complain to the restaurant about it, but I'd certainly want to find out how something like that happened and would want to know if it's a pattern and if it is, I'd want everyone to know the restaurant has a problem.  The restaurant may then listen if they have done something wrong and they may fix the problem.  If they don't and if people get sick there a lot, then they may lose money. 

I still don't believe you can compare a onetime meal to a game that spans 3 games and a lot of other content.  That's the only reason I tried to apply it to more than one meal.  The problem doesn't just affect ME3 and again it is about association.  It affects people that have played far more than the basic 100 plus hours.  It spanned 5 years for people-a lot of anticipation.  It affects at least a couple hundred USDs for people and even more.  People bought new consoles for it, new PCs.  Sure they could still use them, but people bought new Razer keyboards and a lot of other things.  ME3 was also about replayability-not just ME3 alone, but the whole series.  People do feel it ruined that for them.  BW still could "fix" that and so people do still express both the love that they had for BW and ME and how the ending damaged that.  They do it, just in case.

[AngryFrozenWater]

@3DandBeyond: I don't often reply to your posts, because I think you are doing fine. Most of the time I agree with you. I admire the patience you have with some of the people here who like to shut you up. In short: Keep on doing what you are doing.

[Cutlass Jack]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

That's funny, I probably wouldn't post in the forums if I did like the game. I'd be playing it.

You play a game forever if you like it? Wouldn't that leave you little time to post on the forums of games you didn't like?


Eventually you finish any game. Personally I'd rather spend more time afterwards talking about ones I enjoyed than obsessing over ones I disliked. I spend roughly zero percent of my time on the latter. Clearly I'm in a rare minority.

[MegaSovereign]

Big ****ing Stupid Jellyfish.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

That's funny, I probably wouldn't post in the forums if I did like the game. I'd be playing it.

You play a game forever if you like it? Wouldn't that leave you little time to post on the forums of games you didn't like?


Eventually you finish any game. Personally I'd rather spend more time afterwards talking about ones I enjoyed than obsessing over ones I disliked. I spend roughly zero percent of my time on the latter. Clearly I'm in a rare minority.

I am a rare minority too. I even play ME3 and post about the game. It's getting harder and harder, because the more I play it, the more its faults become apparent.

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am a rare minority too. I even play ME3 and post about the game. It's getting harder and harder, because the more I play it, the more its faults become apparent.

I could say that about nearly any game I've played.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am a rare minority too. I even play ME3 and post about the game. It's getting harder and harder, because the more I play it, the more its faults become apparent.

I could say that about nearly any game I've played.

Really? I don't have that with most of the games I play and the others usually wouldn't even be worth posting about.

[Cutlass Jack]

Certainly. No game/story/movie/whatever is perfect and on repeated exposure its easy to nitpick the faults. Everything can look worse under a microscope.

The difference being on the truly bad stuff, you wouldn't care enough to look, let alone repeatedly.

[AtreiyaN7]

*yawn* I can't stand Geralt and Triss thanks to their English VAs in the first Witcher game, and I didn't like the exceedingly clunky dialogue in the opening section of the game. Amazingly, I found a solution to my problem: not playing the game. Coincidentally, I haven't found it necessary to complain on the CDPR forums about how I found the opening in the castle so lame that I was never able to force myself to finish the game (or that I wasted the $5 or so that I spent on it on Steam).

I do, however, like to point out how much I loathed The Witcher in threads like this one where someone is complaining about how traumatized they were...by...a...game. I'm pretty sure that my massive disappointment in The Witcher hasn't permanently damaged my ability to enjoy other games or the fantasy genre in general - just like the Star Wars prequels didn't kill my love of the original Star Wars films.

[AngryFrozenWater]

@AtreiyaN7: You may not complain about CDPR on CDPR forums, but you seem to enjoy to complain about it here. Why is that?

Edit: Oh wait. I forgot to add your trademark: *yawn*

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[Galbrant]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

3DandBeyond, I think you missed my point. It is that there is nothing wrong with complaining...just that repetitive complaining over the same thing (even though it will not change) is obsessive and it doesn't shine positively on the people in this forum that continue to troll every positive sounding post with another ending comment.

I think you got lost in the sick/association point you were trying to make. If you got food poisoning at your favorite restaurant, would you go back every night just to complain about it?

Also, to the other team who worked on MP for ME3. I thought Gamble said the team was put together specifically for that project? They also said ME3 had the largest team of all three games, by far. So, the insinuation that throwing more people at the project would make it "better" isn't something you can objectively substantiate. Having gone from a small company to one of the largest in the world, I can assure you that bigger teams with more budget does not always equal a better product.

I agree bigger teams doesn't make things better necessarily.  The point I was trying to make is that they could have used resources spent on making that team in making ME3 more polished.  It is full of crazy bugs, not game breakers but random stuff that shows QA was not paying attention.  Less money spent on MP could have been used on QA.  I can't count the number of times there are weird head turns (one literally looks like Shepard is in the Exorcist with eyes rolling and head flopping back and forth) and other places where characters are not even looking at each other while talking.  Then there's the lousy out of sequence dialogue in places.

But along with this the game could have been and needed to be bigger and have fewer fetch quests that make no sense.  What are all those fleets doing at random planets in reaper controlled areas and why do you have to search for them?

As for getting food poisoning.  No, I wouldn't necessarily continually complain to the restaurant about it, but I'd certainly want to find out how something like that happened and would want to know if it's a pattern and if it is, I'd want everyone to know the restaurant has a problem.  The restaurant may then listen if they have done something wrong and they may fix the problem.  If they don't and if people get sick there a lot, then they may lose money. 

I still don't believe you can compare a onetime meal to a game that spans 3 games and a lot of other content.  That's the only reason I tried to apply it to more than one meal.  The problem doesn't just affect ME3 and again it is about association.  It affects people that have played far more than the basic 100 plus hours.  It spanned 5 years for people-a lot of anticipation.  It affects at least a couple hundred USDs for people and even more.  People bought new consoles for it, new PCs.  Sure they could still use them, but people bought new Razer keyboards and a lot of other things.  ME3 was also about replayability-not just ME3 alone, but the whole series.  People do feel it ruined that for them.  BW still could "fix" that and so people do still express both the love that they had for BW and ME and how the ending damaged that.  They do it, just in case.

Mine had Dr. Chakwas gone demonic on me. Never let her back on the Normandy again.

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@AtreiyaN7: You may not complain about CDPR on CDPR forums, but you seem to enjoy to complain about it here. Why is that?

I thought she explained it pretty well. I could equally ask why people prefer coming here to praise the game rather than CDPR forums. (I suspect the answer is roughly the same)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 19 août 2012 - 05:27 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

@AtreiyaN7: You may not complain about CDPR on CDPR forums, but you seem to enjoy to complain about it here. Why is that?

I thought she explained it pretty well. I could equally ask why people prefer coming here to praise the game rather than CDRP forums. (I suspect the answer is roughly the same)

No, she did not. It is what she always does. She tries to derail a thread whenever she feels like it is not to her taste. They all start either with an insult or with *yawn*.

[The Spamming Troll]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

*yawn* I can't stand Geralt and Triss thanks to their English VAs in the first Witcher game, and I didn't like the exceedingly clunky dialogue in the opening section of the game. Amazingly, I found a solution to my problem: not playing the game. Coincidentally, I haven't found it necessary to complain on the CDPR forums about how I found the opening in the castle so lame that I was never able to force myself to finish the game (or that I wasted the $5 or so that I spent on it on Steam).

I do, however, like to point out how much I loathed The Witcher in threads like this one where someone is complaining about how traumatized they were...by...a...game. I'm pretty sure that my massive disappointment in The Witcher hasn't permanently damaged my ability to enjoy other games or the fantasy genre in general - just like the Star Wars prequels didn't kill my love of the original Star Wars films.

good morning.

comparing dissapointment in ME2 or ME3 doesnt compare to disapointment with the witcher. what came before the witcher that made you so crazed about it? i know what came before ME2 and ME3.

[Alien Number Six]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Eventually you finish any game. Personally I'd rather spend more time afterwards talking about ones I enjoyed than obsessing over ones I disliked. I spend roughly zero percent of my time on the latter. Clearly I'm in a rare minority.

I'm back after my twelve hour shift and I would like to thank Cutlass Jack for bringing up this point.

[SpamBot2000]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

That's funny, I probably wouldn't post in the forums if I did like the game. I'd be playing it.

You play a game forever if you like it? Wouldn't that leave you little time to post on the forums of games you didn't like?


Eventually you finish any game. Personally I'd rather spend more time afterwards talking about ones I enjoyed than obsessing over ones I disliked. I spend roughly zero percent of my time on the latter. Clearly I'm in a rare minority.

Never posted on any other game forum. Well, there was a MUD in the 90's, but the less said about that, the better.
No other game has precipitated such a depression for me, and I've been playing 'em since the 80's. 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 19 août 2012 - 11:44 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Good thing you won't have to replay it then.

[Harorrd]

[SpamBot2000]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Good thing you won't have to replay it then.

Hey, you came up with another new slogan for BioWare. You should really get paid for these.

[Loup Blanc]

OP I feel your pain.

I am in the same situation. Last week-end I tried to motivate myself to start ME1 and do a complete run of the trilogy. But I couldn't.

Yesterday I tried the same thing... I still couldn't. It's just so pointless.

[Reclusiarch]

I'm enjoying ME3 more than ever.

[elitehunter34]

I don't know if I can replay the series. However, it's not because of the endings, it's simply because once I beat the games, honestly I don't see the point in replaying them. I played ME2 and ME3 once and I played ME1 twice (new game+). While I do like the gameplay of all three games, it isn't enough to make we want to replay it. I seem to be a lot different from many people here and many of my friends who like Mass Effect because I just don't have much of a desire to replay them.

I think it's largely because once I play the game once, I know what's going to happen. I would just be going through the same conversations again. Sure I can play more Renegade (I tend to be about 90% paragon), but I've seen all of the Renegade choices online. The ones I haven't seen aren't really worth going through the entire game for me at least.

However, I still loved each game (parts I didn't like from all 3 games, especially the ending of ME3, but I'll get to that in a second). For me, I play through it once and that's enough for me. Mass Effect is the kind of game I beat once, but I think about and talk about for a long time because the games are just so rich and memorable. From a gameplay standpoint, Mass Effect is good, but what really makes the games great are the conversations and the story, and I only need to do that once to get what I need. There really is no point in replaying it for me.

But, saying all this, I probably would want to replay the series in the future, but the EC ending just completely destroys my already small desire to replay the games. It's just so, so incredibly frustrating. While Mass Effect 3 has many problems, the biggest problem is so easy to fix and Bioware dropped the ball on us with the Extended Cut.  Instead of scrapping the entire Catalyst (which according to a large poll that I can't find at the moment is what most fans wanted) Bioware gave us more of it. Bioware gave me more of that contrived character and the contrived ending choices. The endings are such a hamfisted attempt at deep symbolism and a having a "no ending is the best ending" kind of choice, but it was done horribly. Without going into details, the ending basically screams contrivance, and it is completely illogical.

It would be so easy to fix the ending, and thus the biggest problem with the game, but Bioware has made all of the wrong choices so far, but I don't think that it's impossible for them to fix it.  Even a retcon would suffice.  I don't want to hate where this series has been taken. I really, really don't.  I want to continue exploring it. Mass Effect has touched me in a way that no other series has really.  I don't want it to end like this, when so much more can be explored. I don't want sidequels or prequels, I want to explore a galaxy where our choices matter.  Mass Effect can still do that, but right now the endings in their current form effectively shut that off from us. They are just too disparate to forge any kind of series that somehow branches from these 3 (4? does Refuse really count?) endings. They should not even exist in the first place.  So honestly it's why I stay here.  I still think Mass Effect can be salvaged.  It would just require Bioware to own up to their mistakes.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 19 août 2012 - 01:49 .

[3DandBeyond]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Eventually you finish any game. Personally I'd rather spend more time afterwards talking about ones I enjoyed than obsessing over ones I disliked. I spend roughly zero percent of my time on the latter. Clearly I'm in a rare minority.

I'm back after my twelve hour shift and I would like to thank Cutlass Jack for bringing up this point.

The thing is if more people did complain about horrid games and all, you might get more of the former.  Because some think video games are "off limits" for complaints and they believe this idea that they are sacrosanct works of art, the quality of games you get will continue to diminish.

I look at many of the last games in any series of games and I know I have mostly been like you.  The first game is generally great for any series I like.  The next is pretty good or sometimes even better.  The last is usually junk with some good moments, some fun, but definitely lacks the quality of the first and even second.  Part of the reason is what parent companies are now working for: preorders and getting just anything out before the competition.  But this is stupid and unless we speak up, it will get worse.

What we don't do enough of and what they are trying to make it impossible to do, is return videogames that stink.  But even if you can return them you often have a window of 7 days and a lot of people don't have the time to always finish a game in that time-some can't be returned once opened.  So, you preorder and are stuck with what they decided to give you.  But, a lot of people don't return things anyway.  They let a game gather dust and don't do anything about it.  Or, they go and sell it used or to gamestop to sell it used.  Problem is since someone that buys ME3 will need to pay $10 for the online code (if you used it), the used value isn't much.  Basically, you are stuck with what you got and if the game was horrid, you may have wasted $60-$80 or more on it.  For some that's their entertainment budget for the season or year.  Or, that's their one birthday or Christmas or holiday gift.

I don't think it's a truly brilliant idea to not complain if you hate a game.  It's being a wise consumer-caring about the money you worked 12 hours to get.  How many hours of that work does it take you to be able to afford a game?  For some that game might be what they get paid for a week's worth of work at one job.  It's not throw away money.

And it isn't just BW or ME3.  It's all games.  Peole here are fond of saying it's EA's fault or whatever, but it isn't. It's ours.  We haven't really cared before.  ME made us care about the game and that's a double edged sword.  It's not bragging to say if you don't like a game you don't complain about it. 

[3DandBeyond]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

*yawn* I can't stand Geralt and Triss thanks to their English VAs in the first Witcher game, and I didn't like the exceedingly clunky dialogue in the opening section of the game. Amazingly, I found a solution to my problem: not playing the game. Coincidentally, I haven't found it necessary to complain on the CDPR forums about how I found the opening in the castle so lame that I was never able to force myself to finish the game (or that I wasted the $5 or so that I spent on it on Steam).

I do, however, like to point out how much I loathed The Witcher in threads like this one where someone is complaining about how traumatized they were...by...a...game. I'm pretty sure that my massive disappointment in The Witcher hasn't permanently damaged my ability to enjoy other games or the fantasy genre in general - just like the Star Wars prequels didn't kill my love of the original Star Wars films.

Yes, spending $5 on a game where you didn't like the opening is roughly the equivalent of people spending $100 plus and 100 hours and 5 years on a game series with an awful ending.  But maybe you slept through the whole thing.

If you decide to waste your money and not complain about things companies do that you don't like, that's up to you.  Other people are finally saying enough is enough.  And games are not some art that is immune to criticism.  Once that "art" hits the market, it becomes a consumer item and it would be like claiming you have a Van Gogh to sell and then giving someone a finger painting your kid made and then telling the person that bought it they can't complain. 

Explain to me exactly how not playing ME games solves anything?  No, BW probably will never "fix" the problem.  But there is a slim chance they might.  People already are not playing the game and that is the problem for them.  They want to want to play the game, but it's distasteful as is.  They are trying to still appeal to BW's better nature.  It's hard to imagine that people that created some truly poignant moments as in these games, don't have better natures.  The only real connection people have to BW is here. 

I suggest if you think people are not spending their time wisely in complaining here, that you are guilty of the same; you obviously are not getting enough sleep.