288 réponses à ce sujet

[Conniving_Eagle]

Harorrd wrote...

Gif of the day.

[3DandBeyond]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am a rare minority too. I even play ME3 and post about the game. It's getting harder and harder, because the more I play it, the more its faults become apparent.

I could say that about nearly any game I've played.

Then why not work to try and make them better if you feel that way?  Complaining may not ultimately change things much, but it could.  Not complaining only assures game companies that we fans will buy anything and accept anything they churn out.  If you think games suck, then say enough is enough.

[PSUHammer]

Everything you are saying, I Agree with. I think we were making different points. My main issue is with the people who have posted nothing but complaints or trolled positive threads since March because they were not personally satisfied.

Voicing dissatisfaction is great.

Regarding the first point in your last post, I would disagree a bit. Game forums have been popular since the late 90's?? Every game ever made has a core of people complaining on their forums. I am not sure how good that does. Sales speak louder than forum complaints.

[AngryFrozenWater]

3DandBeyond wrote...

And it isn't just BW or ME3.  It's all games.  Peole here are fond of saying it's EA's fault or whatever, but it isn't. It's ours.  We haven't really cared before.  ME made us care about the game and that's a double edged sword.  It's not bragging to say if you don't like a game you don't complain about it.

As a side note: There is the mechanism of badvocates, advocates and evangelists. They are interesting, because they either have a negative or positive effect on a company. Extremists among those make conversations virtually impossible. We see them here all the time. I believe they are the cause of many of the flame wars here. Then we have mechanisms like reputation management and new media marketing plus many variations. Google up these terms if you have the time. Very interesting topics.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 19 août 2012 - 04:38 .

[shepdog77]

By reading the thread title alone... it sounds like you are suffering from erectile disfunction, and you are angry about it.

I suggest you see a doctor about that.

[Cutlass Jack]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am a rare minority too. I even play ME3 and post about the game. It's getting harder and harder, because the more I play it, the more its faults become apparent.

I could say that about nearly any game I've played.

Then why not work to try and make them better if you feel that way?  Complaining may not ultimately change things much, but it could.  Not complaining only assures game companies that we fans will buy anything and accept anything they churn out.  If you think games suck, then say enough is enough.

The point, I think you miss it. Where do I say games suck? Its completely possible to enjoy a game and still see issues with it. Its also completely possible to engage in constructive conversation about where a game needs improvement without resorting to the melodrama of: "<XX> has ruined my love of video games for all time!!!1!!"

Raging and hyperbole on the internet does not equal working to make them better.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Raging and hyperbole on the internet does not equal working to make them better.

Suggesting that critique is raging and hyperbole does not add to the discussion.

[Omega Torsk]

Personally, my replayability is tainted by the seemingly "unfinished" quality of ME3. Like, I want to enjoy it, but there's just something missing. Like, it just isn't finished, yet. Maybe it will get better with DLC, but I'm not holding my breath. The ending is better and I'm grateful, but the rest of the game leaves much to be desired. It would take an expansion pack to fix most of the issues I have with the base game.

[Cutlass Jack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Raging and hyperbole on the internet does not equal working to make them better.

Suggesting that critique is raging and hyperbole does not add to the discussion.

I'm suggesting that Raging and Hyperbole is not constructive criticism and does not make games better. I'm not suggesting that all critique is raging and hyperbole.

[M920CAIN]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

 I just can't enjoy any of the Mass Effect games anymore after the release of Mass Effect 3. The story of ME3 basically ruined the entire trilogy for me. I know this might sound silly, but it is true.

Yesterday I wanted to start a new game in ME1. I played it for 2 hours and lost all excitement. I kept thinking about how everything I do in ME1 would be reduced to plain numbers (e.g. War Assets). It felt redundant. I just didn't enjoy it anymore. So I took out ME1 and tried ME2 instead.

So I started up ME2 and decided to do do a NG+ with my Renegade Shepard. But again, the same feeling came up. In fact, the feeling became even worse. Seeing The Illusive Man again reminded me of what he would become in ME3, a cliché super-shallow villain, a mindless indoctrinated douchebag, basically a Saren 2.0, but worse. At least Saren was cool back in ME1... *sigh* It made me feel sad.

So I turned off my Xbox360 and started a new game in The Witcher 1. At least I can still enjoy The Witcher series. Hopefully CD Projekt RED won't screw up The Witcher 3 the same way BioWare screwed up Mass Effect 3. *sigh* 

I replayed ME1 and ME2 in the past 2 weeks. I had a great time doing some decisions I would have never made until now. ME3 shouldn't hinder the other games' enjoyability factors, but I understand were you are coming from. ME3' ending is subpar.

[3DandBeyond]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Everything you are saying, I Agree with. I think we were making different points. My main issue is with the people who have posted nothing but complaints or trolled positive threads since March because they were not personally satisfied.

Voicing dissatisfaction is great.

Regarding the first point in your last post, I would disagree a bit. Game forums have been popular since the late 90's?? Every game ever made has a core of people complaining on their forums. I am not sure how good that does. Sales speak louder than forum complaints.

I do understand what you are saying, but consider this.  What you see as trolling, someone else sees differently.  

This is not a positive thread, so should I say someone who is happy with the endings is trolling?  No, and I've never said that.  But, also look at what does happen.  Someone says they wanted a happier ending and right away they are criticized as wanting all bunnies and rainbows.  People are disingenuous because if the point is made by someone whose viewpoint opposes their own, then they get way too literal about what's said.  Hot button issues-happy, refuse, conventional.  You say any one of these words and you hit the 3rd rail of conversation that used to be only for religion and politics.

I don't think it's only what BW did that has caused a lot of this.  It's been created by the reviewers that in any other industry would offer an impartial ear and then also helped along by other fans.  A lot of the people that were here after the EC calling people whiners and complainers were themselves vehemently against the original endings and once got called the same names, but now that they are happy that's all that matters.

Why people are continuing the conversation is for the same reason it truly annoys someone to get the silent treatment from anyone.  But trolling is wrong no matter who does it. 

As for other games with other complaints-I know that there are always complaints.  It's that way with everything you buy.  But video games are considered as some different kind of untouchable thing when it comes to content-IGN will tell you that.  So will G4TV and Adam Sessler and on and on.  But ME3 may have and hopefully has taught people something:  game content should not be off limits to criticism and we do need to be coherent and specific about our claims.  And we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves.  There shouldn't be "sides" here.  We shouldn't be pitted against BW either.  We should all want better games and we should all work together to get that.  That would keep BW in business and make as many people as possible happier.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

 I just can't enjoy any of the Mass Effect games anymore after the release of Mass Effect 3. The story of ME3 basically ruined the entire trilogy for me. I know this might sound silly, but it is true.

Yesterday I wanted to start a new game in ME1. I played it for 2 hours and lost all excitement. I kept thinking about how everything I do in ME1 would be reduced to plain numbers (e.g. War Assets). It felt redundant. I just didn't enjoy it anymore. So I took out ME1 and tried ME2 instead.

So I started up ME2 and decided to do do a NG+ with my Renegade Shepard. But again, the same feeling came up. In fact, the feeling became even worse. Seeing The Illusive Man again reminded me of what he would become in ME3, a cliché super-shallow villain, a mindless indoctrinated douchebag, basically a Saren 2.0, but worse. At least Saren was cool back in ME1... *sigh* It made me feel sad.

So I turned off my Xbox360 and started a new game in The Witcher 1. At least I can still enjoy The Witcher series. Hopefully CD Projekt RED won't screw up The Witcher 3 the same way BioWare screwed up Mass Effect 3. *sigh* 

This is how most people feel, not only did ME3's ending/plot not make you want to replay ME3, it makes you not want to replay the entire trilogy, and that is a sad sad thing.

[3DandBeyond]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am a rare minority too. I even play ME3 and post about the game. It's getting harder and harder, because the more I play it, the more its faults become apparent.

I could say that about nearly any game I've played.

Then why not work to try and make them better if you feel that way?  Complaining may not ultimately change things much, but it could.  Not complaining only assures game companies that we fans will buy anything and accept anything they churn out.  If you think games suck, then say enough is enough.

The point, I think you miss it. Where do I say games suck? Its completely possible to enjoy a game and still see issues with it. Its also completely possible to engage in constructive conversation about where a game needs improvement without resorting to the melodrama of: "<XX> has ruined my love of video games for all time!!!1!!"

Raging and hyperbole on the internet does not equal working to make them better.

Who was talking about raging and hyperbole?  And where from your comment would I know what you are talking about?  You said you see more and more faults with about nearly every game you play.  That means on some level they suck.  And I suggested you do something constructive about it.

Just because no game does that kind of thing for you, doesn't mean someone else can't be affected that way and is just being melodramatic.  I've waited a long time to play this kind of video game.  In many ways it has ruined gaming for me, because no game measures up to the things I liked in ME.  The ending ruined ME for me-it's that association thing I brought up.  It doesn't mean someone's crazy, just that they don't like other games as well as they liked ME and now they don't like ME because of the endings.  That isn't necessarily rage and hyperbole.  And it doesn't mean people don't do other things, it's just gaming isn't as fun for them because maybe ME was their favorite game and a big part of their budget.

[3DandBeyond]

I do want to add one little tidbit of thought here to consider. One day it will all "come out", exactly how this all happened. What I mean is one day we will find out from an insider exactly how the ending came to be and who disagreed with it and why other things were abandoned. Someone will talk just as surely as criminals usually are caught because they can't keep quiet. It's human nature. People want to tell their story and if it's juicy enough they are bursting to tell it. If I tell you a secret, you will not keep it, because you can't. This is true for a large portion of people.

Now, it may be that started to happen already, but once BW is through with certain employees, and they move on, then their story may even have value, great value. And, non-disclosure agreements may not apply to such things.

Whatever happens, one day we will know what did happen and it will probably happen sooner rather than later, because as time goes on, the story loses value.

I'd like the story to have a kind of different twist, in that BW meant to tease us with an ending and it just kind of backfired. This can happen because they're human. If they just didn't care (and I can't believe that's it), then it will come out. Things like this always do.