288 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Right. So people love a game with no actual plot choices that matter, and love the sequel that resurrected all the dead NPCs (only to kill some offscreen in different ways) and told you who your default party from the previous game was despite that your character might have hated or even killed the characters who are now his friends. And that also has almost no significant choices.

Funny how not advertising falsely makes a difference that way.

Hmm.  So I wasn't much bothered by ME3 because I expected standard Bio product, but other folks were disappointed because the prerelease chatter led them to expect a level of choice and consequences that Bio's never delivered or even attempted.

Could be.

Well, gee so now apparently in order to appreciate the BW is making claims that are untrue, buyers must understand that's just the way they do things?  But if a person only ever liked ME as a BW product, and pre-orders and pre-order hype is a truly new over the top phenomenon, how were they expected to just know that BW lovers to hype things, making promises they never keep?

And, at what point are you supposed to say enough is enough?  Is there a timeframe that I am unaware of?  Or isn't it just human nature to let a lot of things slide and then finally burst at having been promised too many things that are never done?  If you told me a lie a month ago and then one yesterday and you tell me a lie today, is it now not ok if I tell you to stop lying to me?  People are told to give others a second chance.  Hell, I've seen it here-people complained about the original endings and others said to cut BW a break, give them a chance, everyone makes mistakes, but you are specifically saying these are not mistakes.  That's just how BW works according to what you are saying.  That means it's intentional.  Well, enough is enough, then.  If that's true, then they need to stop it.  It isn't helping them and maybe it's no longer working as far as marketing methodology. 

You may have no problem with it, but all of this was compounded by what is known by fiction writers as the internal promise that is made in a story.  None of BW's other games seems to have been geared to work like ME-that one game funnels choices into another and then another.  So, none of the other games are quite so affected by the other games in the same franchise.  But if you create a trilogy, then you are setting lore and you do follow that lore.  That's the promise.  The other external promises were still being made even after people said they weren't true. 

Bioware themselves wanted ME3 to be an entry into the ME universe, so why would some new BW customer that was targeted to buy ME3 alone even know that BW constantly overhypes things?

[Hannah Montana]

inko1nsiderate wrote...

Hannah Montana wrote...

inko1nsiderate wrote...

This thread is useless, so requires some trolling:

Sucks to be you. I've replayed the trilogy in its entirety twice since beating ME3. Loads of fun for me.

I think your problem is that you play games on an xbox.

Yes, if you don't enjoy a game for the plot then clearly it is the fault of the platform you play on.

I said I was trolling.  So you were told I was trolling, and responded to my point as if I were being serious?

Clearly you don't like the ending because you are flat out stupid.

I was joking, if I was being serious I would have told you that you're a retard and to go die in a fire.

[Pitznik]

Hannah Montana wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Loading screens in ME2 bluntly tell you your choices in ME2 may have dire consequences in ME3. I guess it depends on what everyone's definition of dire is.

Whole race dying, that is kind of dire, don't you think?

Depends what race it is.
And besides you can still control just how dire is if you play the choices right, you can switch from dire to not dire in Mass effect 3.
The choices in Mass effect 2 seem to give you the ability to turn the switches in Mass effect 3.

Only through proper ME2 choices you can save both suitrats and flashlight-heads. Without this choice, one of those has to die - dire consequence or not?

Without proper ME2 choice you can have to shoot your friend Mordin - dire consequence or not?

Without proper ME2 choices Miranda your friend will die - dire consequence or not?

I think all of those are pretty dire, especially the first one.

[inko1nsiderate]

Hannah Montana wrote...


I was joking, if I was being serious I would have told you that you're a retard and to go die in a fire.

Fact:  the ME3 ending makes more sense on PC.

[Xamufam]

Mass effect 3 ruined gaming for me, it feels like something is dead inside me when i play
can't stand it

Modifié par Troxa, 17 août 2012 - 04:58 .

[Pitznik]

ShepnTali wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Loading screens in ME2 bluntly tell you your choices in ME2 may have dire consequences in ME3. I guess it depends on what everyone's definition of dire is.

Whole race dying, that is kind of dire, don't you think?

No, that's just it. 20 races dying isn't dire if it's virtually meaningless in gameplay and endgame. From strictly story perspective it can be, but nothing consequence of note, gamewise. That's why I say, who's definition of dire and what does it mean.

... I would think in RPG game it isn't meaningless, considering what kind of heated discussions we have here, on BSN, about choosing between Quarians and those other guys, etc. It wasn't "Your choices will have dire consequences in ME3, gameplaywise". There are plenty of false statements from Bioware, but this isn't one of those.

[ShepnTali]

Pitznik wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Pitznik wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Loading screens in ME2 bluntly tell you your choices in ME2 may have dire consequences in ME3. I guess it depends on what everyone's definition of dire is.

Whole race dying, that is kind of dire, don't you think?

No, that's just it. 20 races dying isn't dire if it's virtually meaningless in gameplay and endgame. From strictly story perspective it can be, but nothing consequence of note, gamewise. That's why I say, who's definition of dire and what does it mean.

... I would think in RPG game it isn't meaningless, considering what kind of heated discussions we have here, on BSN, about choosing between Quarians and those other guys, etc. It wasn't "Your choices will have dire consequences in ME3, gameplaywise". There are plenty of false statements from Bioware, but this isn't one of those.

So we're clear, you're saying it's unreasonable for the player to expect their decisions from previous games to matter in an important way gameplay wise, and have an important impact at the end of the game.

[Pitznik]

ShepnTali wrote...


So we're clear, you're saying it's unreasonable for the player to expect their decisions from previous games to matter in an important way gameplay wise, and have an important impact at the end of the game.

No, I wouldn't go that far. I'm only saying that particular statement was true. But there is no problem whatsoever in finding a Bioware statement that isn't true - for example, the interview about Rachni decision being very important in the ending - that one can't be defended.

[dorktainian]

so if mass effect 4 comes along, bearing in mind day one DLC and the fact that we were basically sold an incomplete game, with a massive lack of quality control, could anyone trust Bioware not to do the same with ME4? In fact would anyone have to think twice about not even buying Mass effect 4? remember folks your decisions matter. or maybe not......

[Wayning_Star]

My only advice to the OP is, don't read so much into it. If you suffer VG burnout, just don't play for a while, that usually what I do. Now I'm in the process of figuring out the small things in the game,but that is tedious. So I'm waiting for the inivitable DLC, in hopes of some ripe and tasty plot foods.

I don't play the online games,eventhough, I know they'll help the SP version, I'm not good enough at the fighting side of games that much. My worse cheat is 'god mode'. So I play at those just to see what happens. All video games have a mental shelf life, just like stories,movies,entertainment and the like. We are just stuck till the next best thing to being there is completed.

But personally, I think the downer in the ME trilogy, besides Sheps' demise, is that we know there won't be another that is the same way,as effective. But then, I could be wrong, as hard as that is to imagine for me... :^]

So, just put down the controller, turn off your system, and back away slowly.to reboot for another time.

[Wayning_Star]

dorktainian wrote...

so if mass effect 4 comes along, bearing in mind day one DLC and the fact that we were basically sold an incomplete game, with a massive lack of quality control, could anyone trust Bioware not to do the same with ME4? In fact would anyone have to think twice about not even buying Mass effect 4? remember folks your decisions matter. or maybe not......

I really believe that user feed back on BSN really helps in that regard. If there is to be a replay, it'd be more refined. It's acceptability would be a wait'n see thing tho.

Many on these forums complain for the sake of complaint, and that is highly contaigious, a side effect of social interactions.

[dorktainian]

nowt like a good moan...... well our lass likes a good moan......

I love ME1 & ME2. Maybe ME4 will be as good.

[Tipsyfresh]

Simotech wrote...

You're not alone OP.

You're not alone.

[Blitzhawk65]

AlanC9 wrote...

Did people feel this way about BG1 after learning that BG2 didn't respect any of their choices?

Not at all, but comparing ME1/ME2 to Baldur's Gate is comparing apples to oranges.  Baldur's Gate was a smaller-scale personal story that took place in a small geographical area of the Forgotton Realms setting.  The choices that the player made in BG1 would not have been expected to carry much of an effect beyond that geographical area so when the player travels to Amn in BG2 it makes sense that we wouldn't see the consequences of BG1 choices.  That said, there was still a pleasant mix of BG1 choices that transfered (ex: interactions with drizzt, treatement of companions, etc.), and while the appearance of so many BG1 companions in Amn was conveniently coincidental, the devs made sure to not go into full George Lucas mode and make it so that all BG1 companions ended up making an appearance in Amn.  For example, Kivan and Yeslick were two of my party regulars in BG1 and neither appeared in BG2 which I was fine with since it would not have made sense for either to have showed up in Amn.  In contrast, the story of the Mass Effect series spans the entire galaxy and deals with choices that presumably have wide-spread consequences (rachni race living/dying, collector base, who is on the council, etc.).  Those choices are expected to have an impact, and players are going to be upset when they are streamlined (ex:rachni, Udina on council) or marginalized (ex:rachni, collector base).

[Ithurael]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Also note, the restaurant does not charge you 60-80 dollars per meal per person and then add in pre-meal dlc that you pay more for before you even order your meal.

I understand the point you are trying to make but your example doesn't make a lot of sense, economically.  I pay $20-$25 for a good meal (double with the wife in attendance) at a nice local restaurant and it lasts 2 hours, tops, if you are having some drinks and conversation. 

An ME game will give you roughly 40 hours of enjoyment, not counting replays and MP.  So, your dollar to "entertainment value by the hour" equation is skewed highly in favor of the game price.  Plus, all the free DLC would cancel out that one you paid for?

However, - I shall rephrase my example:

You go to a resturant that says it has the best steak in the world

You order a steak for $60

You get the steak and it is overcooked, partially burnt  and it tastes like crap.

No matter how ritzy the environment is, no matter how great the anticipation was, no matter how great anything was leading up to the eating of that steak the final product is a letdown. - you will complain it is inevitable.

ME3's ending is like that for many (myself included. Priority Earth was a total let down and the day 1 dlc was just lame)

Mass Effect 3 was made great by 3 things:
- Narrative (story)
- Characters
- Choices that will matter

Gameplay
was just gravy to some - hell I was so immersed in ME1 that I didn't
even care about the odd gameplay it had back then. Mass Effect 3
(vanilla) throws those "big three" out the window. The EC fixed the
Characters part a bit and the Choices part but left the story in a kind
of "meh" feeling. There was no real climax or feeling of victory - it
just plains out and stalls out after Cerb HQ (or the "Fleets Arrive" Segment)

I do not believe that gamers are entitled in a negative sense. I think it is healthy to complain and bash an institution that produces a sub-par product. If Bioware goes under or looses business that will provide opportunities for other companies/startups to gain customers. It is a healthy purge and a neccessary one in the end.

[Pantegana]

Well I think I kind of agree with the OP. Now I've even grown tired of MP: it's boring and is tainted by endless bugs <_<
Luckily I can still play DA:O

[hypnotizedmind]

I think I'm gonna go rebuy ME2 and have myself a good time.

[MegaSovereign]

Okay.

[The Heretic of Time]

Samtheman63 wrote...

people must have some kind of mental illness if you can't just put the ending to a video game to the back of your mind for a few hours whilst you enjoy the previous 2 releases.

It's not just the ending bro, it's the whole of ME3 that bothers me from start to finish. The entire game is crap.

So that means 1/3 of the entire Mass Effect trilogy is crap. That's 33%. That's a big part isn't it? Big enough that it can't simply be ignored while playing the other 66% that's actually good.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Or how about you find a cockroach near the end of the steak.

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Hmm.  So I wasn't much bothered by ME3 because I expected standard Bio product, but other folks were disappointed because the prerelease chatter led them to expect a level of choice and consequences that Bio's never delivered or even attempted.

Could be.

Well, gee so now apparently in order to appreciate the BW is making claims that are untrue, buyers must understand that's just the way they do things?  But if a person only ever liked ME as a BW product, and pre-orders and pre-order hype is a truly new over the top phenomenon, how were they expected to just know that BW lovers to hype things, making promises they never keep?

Figured you'd be around this thread someplace.

I didn't follow the prerelease chatter all that closely, so I'm not sure I have the right to judge it. I'm kind of surprised now at how people interpreted a lot of the statements (plus some outright fabrications like that 16 endings idea), but since I wasn't paying attention to that stuff until after I'd seen ME3, I've got no access to how I would have interpreted the marketing chatter myself if I had tried to interpret it at the time. Perhaps what I'm experiencing now is confirmation bias. All I can honestly say is that it never occurred to me that Bio was actually attempting a level of continuing consequences that nobody else had ever done in an RPG series.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Did people feel this way about BG1 after learning that BG2 didn't respect any of their choices?

No. People still love BG1. And BG2.

Right. So people love a game with no actual plot choices that matter, and love the sequel that resurrected all the dead NPCs (only to kill some offscreen in different ways) and told you who your default party from the previous game was despite that your character might have hated or even killed the characters who are now his friends. And that also has almost no significant choices.

I'm just trying to figure out the standards here. At least the RPGCodex guys are consistent -- they've always hated Bio's style.

BG2 was not a direct sequel.  Same protagonist, same universe, but wholly different story, setting, and villain.

In addition, importing was limited to your character only.  Not even your equipment.  There was actually quite a bit of leaning on the fourth wall when it came to meeting some NPCs, quite a bit of "Shouldn't you be dead?" and such questions.  You go into BG2 knowing your choices won't make much difference, it was never claimed otherwise.


Bioware said our choices here would matter, went so far as to brag about all the hundreds (or was it thousands?) of choices that were recorded.  And in the end, your choices can't even affect Shepard's fate.  BG2's end chocie, at least, did that much.

[MegaSovereign]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

people must have some kind of mental illness if you can't just put the ending to a video game to the back of your mind for a few hours whilst you enjoy the previous 2 releases.

It's not just the ending bro, it's the whole of ME3 that bothers me from start to finish. The entire game is crap.

So that means 1/3 of the entire Mass Effect trilogy is crap. That's 33%. That's a big part isn't it? Big enough that it can't simply be ignored while playing the other 66% that's actually good.

Wow, the ENTIRE game is crap to you?

Wow.

[F4H bandicoot]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

people must have some kind of mental illness if you can't just put the ending to a video game to the back of your mind for a few hours whilst you enjoy the previous 2 releases.

It's not just the ending bro, it's the whole of ME3 that bothers me from start to finish. The entire game is crap.

So that means 1/3 of the entire Mass Effect trilogy is crap. That's 33%. That's a big part isn't it? Big enough that it can't simply be ignored while playing the other 66% that's actually good.

Wow, the ENTIRE game is crap to you?

Wow.

I can see where he is coming from.

[The Heretic of Time]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

people must have some kind of mental illness if you can't just put the ending to a video game to the back of your mind for a few hours whilst you enjoy the previous 2 releases.

It's not just the ending bro, it's the whole of ME3 that bothers me from start to finish. The entire game is crap.

So that means 1/3 of the entire Mass Effect trilogy is crap. That's 33%. That's a big part isn't it? Big enough that it can't simply be ignored while playing the other 66% that's actually good.

Wow, the ENTIRE game is crap to you?

Wow.

Well except for the gameplay, which is actually good. And the music, which is also good. The plot and story however: absolutely ridiculous from start to finish.