288 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Also note, the restaurant does not charge you 60-80 dollars per meal per person and then add in pre-meal dlc that you pay more for before you even order your meal.

I understand the point you are trying to make but your example doesn't make a lot of sense, economically.  I pay $20-$25 for a good meal (double with the wife in attendance) at a nice local restaurant and it lasts 2 hours, tops, if you are having some drinks and conversation. 

An ME game will give you roughly 40 hours of enjoyment, not counting replays and MP.  So, your dollar to "entertainment value by the hour" equation is skewed highly in favor of the game price.  Plus, all the free DLC would cancel out that one you paid for?

The problem is you are comparing the wrong thing here.  You can't compare something that is consumable to a game that should have replay value and that free MP DLC is not so free and is not relevant especially if you don't play MP at all.  MP is geared toward getting more money out of you-you don't have to pay for packs, but it isn't technically free.  They purposely make it so that a lot of people will buy the packs.  So, please don't add into the mix.  I didn't pay for MP, I paid for the SP game and they can keep MP.  It could have been on a separate disk or downloadable only.

I wanted a complete SP game that meshed with the previous games. 

But using your example.  How about if the steak makes you sick and if that was your favorite restaurant and meal.  And how about if just thinking of that restaurant and steak or any steak just makes you sick.  Then the comparison is closer.  You can't tell someone that the ending of ME3 shouldn't ruin ME for them, because that would be like me telling you that it should ruin ME for you.  You can't change how you feel and I can't change how I feel about it.  In playing ME1 and 2, I'd jump at the chance to play them again, over and over and I really didn't like the Mako missions that much.  And I started several Shepards for ME3.  I planned on playing the games over again several times, several different ways, but I have no desire to now.  I don't like any of them all that much and believe me I do try to play again. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 août 2012 - 07:11 .

[MegaSovereign]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

people must have some kind of mental illness if you can't just put the ending to a video game to the back of your mind for a few hours whilst you enjoy the previous 2 releases.

It's not just the ending bro, it's the whole of ME3 that bothers me from start to finish. The entire game is crap.

So that means 1/3 of the entire Mass Effect trilogy is crap. That's 33%. That's a big part isn't it? Big enough that it can't simply be ignored while playing the other 66% that's actually good.

Wow, the ENTIRE game is crap to you?

Wow.

I can see where he is coming from.

Must be a human thing.

Sentimental crap.

[ZerebusPrime]

Wait...... wait.... wait. Someone didn't like the Tuchanka arc?

[AlanC9]

Blitzhawk65 wrote...
Not at all, but comparing ME1/ME2 to Baldur's Gate is comparing apples to oranges.  Baldur's Gate was a smaller-scale personal story that took place in a small geographical area of the Forgotton Realms setting.  The choices that the player made in BG1 would not have been expected to carry much of an effect beyond that geographical area so when the player travels to Amn in BG2 it makes sense that we wouldn't see the consequences of BG1 choices.  

Sure. By moving to Amn Bio effectively could do a handwave over the bulk of the cosequences. And in any event BG1 was very weak on choices; the main problem would be dead NPCs.

That said, there was still a pleasant mix of BG1 choices that transfered (ex: interactions with drizzt, treatement of companions, etc.)

Huh. I killed Minsc, but there he was in a cell when I imported to BG2. Same with Edwin. Same with everybody. And as long as you don't have Drizz't's loot he doesn't remember that you killed him. Treatment of companions doesn't carry over. I think maybe there's a bit early on whre someone checks your Rep score, but that's it.

But yeah, ME1 did set up a couple of big choices that didn't come off. I sometimes forget about Udina and the alternate councils because the whole thing was so idiotic that I don't like remembering ME1 did it.

[Seboist]

The sad thing is that the multiplayer has better story points than the single player. The Vorcha and Batarians get larger and more positive portrayals in multi and aren't one dimensional racist caricatures meant solely for Shepard to gun down.

[DextroDNA]

You're all way too melodramatic.

I didn't really like the ending for ME3, but the EC has fixed that for me. My Shepard lived, Reapers died, Relays and Citadel fixed - what more could I want? What is bad about that ending? Sure, it turns out a lot of my choices from the previous games only turned into EMS - but that EMS gave me the ending I wanted. And I may not have needed to play the first 2 to get enough EMS, but I did play them. And it helped. Not the point really

I still enjoy ME1, I just finished a playthrough of it today - and I'm going on to ME2 tomorrow. They still entertain me, even after ME3's ending. Just because the ending of one game was ORIGINALLY bad (now fixed), I don't see why that should stop you enjoying the first two. You say you find Sovereign funny? I actually thought everything Sovereign said made sense on Virmire. The Reapers were the destroyers of the Galaxy, that's essentially what he told us - and that's what they were believed to be. Nobody was supposed to know what they were. He told us we could not understand the Reaper's motivations - and it looks like a lot of you here on the forums don't.

So, why does ME3 stop you enjoying the other games? I thought ME3 was a brilliant game - and even if you think otherwise; how does it stop you liking the others? There is no logic. What's really happening is, you've all just brainwashed yourselves into hating Bioware and the entire franchise just because the ending pissed you off a bit; and mainly because everyone on the forums has been acting like it was a disgrace to the world of gaming. The melodrama of the forum-users has got you stuck in the mindset that Mass Effect is bad, and Bioware is the Satan of gaming developers.

Maybe if you snapped out of it, got over the endings, and stopped reading threads on the forums about how bad they ending was - you'd still like the game.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...
Bioware said our choices here would matter, went so far as to brag about all the hundreds (or was it thousands?) of choices that were recorded.  And in the end, your choices can't even affect Shepard's fate.  BG2's end chocie, at least, did that much.

MEaning BG2 + ToB, of course. BG2 just ends with a dead Irenicus.

[Torrible]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Samtheman63 wrote...

people must have some kind of mental illness if you can't just put the ending to a video game to the back of your mind for a few hours whilst you enjoy the previous 2 releases.

It's not just the ending bro, it's the whole of ME3 that bothers me from start to finish. The entire game is crap.

So that means 1/3 of the entire Mass Effect trilogy is crap. That's 33%. That's a big part isn't it? Big enough that it can't simply be ignored while playing the other 66% that's actually good.

You are wrong. it's not 33%. It's 100%. Let me explain. The last 5 mins of ME3 made the entire game crap. Since ME3 is the ending of the trilogy, it made the entire series crap too. 100% of the trilogy is crap.

[MegaSovereign]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Wait...... wait.... wait. Someone didn't like the Tuchanka arc?

ITS CRAP.

IT SMELLS LIKE DOO DOO AND LOOKS LIKE DOO DOO SO IT MUST BE DOO DOO.

[Pitznik]

AlanC9 wrote...

Huh. I killed Minsc,

WTF man, WTF. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[MegaSovereign]

So, why does ME3 stop you enjoying the other games? I thought ME3 was a brilliant game - and even if you think otherwise; how does it stop you liking the others? There is no logic. What's really happening is, you've all just brainwashed yourselves into hating Bioware and the entire franchise just because the ending pissed you off a bit; and mainly because everyone on the forums has been acting like it was a disgrace to the world of gaming. The melodrama of the forum-users has got you stuck in the mindset that Mass Effect is bad, and Bioware is the Satan of gaming developers.

DID EA PAY YOU TO SAY THIS? LOLOOLOLOOL


In all seriousness this man has a point.

[The Heretic of Time]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Wait...... wait.... wait. Someone didn't like the Tuchanka arc?

Damn straight I didn't like the Tuchanka arc!

Why? For several reasons:


1. Wrex acted out of character. In ME2 he decided he didn't desire a cure for the genophage, because the current situation of the krogan allowed Wrex to unite all krogan together. Now in ME3 all of the sudden he desperately wants to cure the genophage and nothing else? I don't buy it.

2. Mordin did a complete 180 turn. In ME2 he supported the genophage. He didn't like it, but he understood the necessity of it. Now in ME3 all of the sudden he desperately? wants to cure the genophage and nothing else? I don't buy it.

3. There was only 1 reaper at Tuchanka and it got owned by a giant thresher maw? Not only that, but the reaper was too dumb to actually destroy the shroud to prevent a genopahage cure? I don't buy it.

4. Oh and lets not talk about Cerberus' depryness on Sur'Kesh. TIM actually supported the idea of a krogan cure in ME2, but now he doesn't want the krogan to be cured? Oh yeah, that's right, "indoctrination". Herrrderp. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 17 août 2012 - 07:24 .

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
Bioware said our choices here would matter, went so far as to brag about all the hundreds (or was it thousands?) of choices that were recorded.  And in the end, your choices can't even affect Shepard's fate.  BG2's end chocie, at least, did that much.

MEaning BG2 + ToB, of course. BG2 just ends with a dead Irenicus.

Well, yes.  I got them both at the same time so I kinda consider them both to be one long game.

You're not suggesting ME3 needsa ToB-style expansion, are you?  

[Ithurael]

RussianZombeh wrote...

You're all way too melodramatic.

I didn't really like the ending for ME3, but the EC has fixed that for me. My Shepard lived, Reapers died, Relays and Citadel fixed - what more could I want? What is bad about that ending? Sure, it turns out a lot of my choices from the previous games only turned into EMS - but that EMS gave me the ending I wanted. And I may not have needed to play the first 2 to get enough EMS, but I did play them. And it helped. Not the point really

I still enjoy ME1, I just finished a playthrough of it today - and I'm going on to ME2 tomorrow. They still entertain me, even after ME3's ending. Just because the ending of one game was ORIGINALLY bad (now fixed), I don't see why that should stop you enjoying the first two. You say you find Sovereign funny? I actually thought everything Sovereign said made sense on Virmire. The Reapers were the destroyers of the Galaxy, that's essentially what he told us - and that's what they were believed to be. Nobody was supposed to know what they were. He told us we could not understand the Reaper's motivations - and it looks like a lot of you here on the forums don't.

So, why does ME3 stop you enjoying the other games? I thought ME3 was a brilliant game - and even if you think otherwise; how does it stop you liking the others? There is no logic. What's really happening is, you've all just brainwashed yourselves into hating Bioware and the entire franchise just because the ending pissed you off a bit; and mainly because everyone on the forums has been acting like it was a disgrace to the world of gaming. The melodrama of the forum-users has got you stuck in the mindset that Mass Effect is bad, and Bioware is the Satan of gaming developers.

Maybe if you snapped out of it, got over the endings, and stopped reading threads on the forums about how bad they ending was - you'd still like the game.

EC Added enough content for me to be satisfied. I mainly accept it because there is nothing else

I am still sore on the fact that the game forcefully changes the narrative and the central conflict of the entire franchise in the last 10 minutes.

Your goal is to stop the reapers

The reapers are a solution to the problem of organics being destroyed by synthetics

Your new goal is to find a new solution to the problem of Organics being destroyed by synthetics

That is how the game ends. Your choices affect the old solution - the reapers - but in the end you are forced to replaced your attachment to the story you love to an attachment to organic life (or life in general). Even the final choices are based on the new conflict:
Paragon: Synthesis - absolute synthetics can no longer destroy absolute organics. The problems of Organics being destroyed by Synthetics is null.
Neutral: Control - The reapers still exist to protect organic life from being destroyed by synthetic life
Renegade: Destroy - The old solution is destroyed, but all synthetic life is destroyed with it to prevent it from killing organic life.

I loathe twist endings when they are as contrived as what happend in ME3. It just felt forced and out of place - many do agree. Hell, there is a 39 min video documenting this and other issues with the ending.

[Pitznik]

Ithurael wrote...

Your goal is to stop the reapers

Stick with it.

Renegade: Destroy - The old solution is destroyed, but all synthetic life is destroyed with it to prevent it from killing organic life.

It is destroyed, because you can't destroy the Reapers otherwise. But overall, new synthetic life WILL be created, and there will be no "solution" to destroy it. How does that fit Catalyst's goal again?

Why people keep repeating that, there is enough plotholes already, no need to create your own.

[DeathScepter]

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

On the other hand, MP in ME3 is pretty good.

The best part of the game for sure. Don't have to deal with the pulp nonsense story there and the Vorcha and Batarians get a larger and more positive role.

less bad writing too.

[Seboist]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Actually Seboist, the vorcha weren't too mistreated in ME3; they were shown to be smart and capable enough to have taken over the Blood Pack, after all. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

They certainly could have used more screentime though.

Yeah, that was a slight improvement but like the unique line involving TIM and femshep it's too little, too late and overshadowed by epic levels of derp.

It would have been nice to have a Vorcha squadmate over the EDI sex robot....

[D1ck1e]

Take heart, CD Projekt is working on Cyberpunk.

[MegaSovereign]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Wait...... wait.... wait. Someone didn't like the Tuchanka arc?

Indeed, I didn't like the Tuchanka arc? Why? For several reasons:

1. Wrex acted out of character. In ME2 he decided he didn't desire a cure for the genophage, because the current situation of the krogan allowed Wrex to unite all krogan together. Now in ME3 all of the sudden he desperately wants to cure the genophage and nothing else? I don't buy it.

2. Mordin did a complete 180 turn. In ME2 he supported the genophage. He didn't like it, but he understood the necessity of it. Now in ME3 all of the sudden he desperately? wants to cure the genophage and nothing else? I don't buy it.

3. There was only 1 reaper at Tuchanka and it got owned by a giant thresher maw? Not only that, but the reaper was too dumb to actually destroy the shroud to prevent a genopahage cure? I don't buy it.

4. Oh and lets not talk about Cerberus' depryness on Sur'Kesh. TIM actually supported the idea of a krogan cure in ME2, but now he doesn't want the krogan to be cured? Oh yeah, that's right, "indoctrination". Herrrderp. 

1. You know it's been almost a year since Shepard met Wrex on Tuchanka right? By then he would have made serious progress in uniting the clans. And yes he always wanted the genophage to be cured down the line. Nothing in the narrative contradicts this.

2. Did you play his loyalty mission? You get to talk to him about his genophage work and the ethics of it. You could even make him feel guilty for it. He never hated the Krogan. He just saw his work as "necessary" when looking at the big picture.

3. Giant ass Thresher maw. And Destroyers are relatively weak.

4. TIM doesn't want the Reapers destroyed. He wants to control them. The rest of the galaxy, including the Krogan, wants them to be destroyed. Therefore, curing the genophage goes against TIM's agenda.

[Ithurael]

Pitznik wrote...

It is destroyed, because you can't destroy the Reapers otherwise. But overall, new synthetic life WILL be created, and there will be no "solution" to destroy it. How does that fit Catalyst's goal again?

Why people keep repeating that, there is enough plotholes already, no need to create your own.

LOL!

A computer will do whatever it takes to acheive its goal. It believes that all organic life will be destroyed by synthetic life. It knows that synthetic life exists currently. So, the only way to protect organic life from being destroyed by synthetics is to destroy all synthetics that are currently active. That ensures organic life will live a bit longer before the synthetics come back.

It is almost like at M.A.D. scenario. It sees synthetic life as its enemy, so, if it is going to die - so will its enemy.

[Pitznik]

Ithurael wrote...
LOL!

A computer will do whatever it takes to acheive its goal. It believes that all organic life will be destroyed by synthetic life. It knows that synthetic life exists currently. So, the only way to protect organic life from being destroyed by synthetics is to destroy all synthetics that are currently active. That ensures organic life will live a bit longer before the synthetics come back.

It is almost like at M.A.D. scenario. It sees synthetic life as its enemy, so, if it is going to die - so will its enemy.

He wouldn't willingly replace permanent repeatable solution with one day+ duration, one use only solution. Maybe he wants all synthetics destroyed, maybe it is just a a technical limitation - it is important why you do it, not what he wants.

Destroy is counter-productive towards Catalyst's goal. Destroy stops the Reapers. It doesn't require you to change priorities or anything. Don't like killing the Geth? Pick Control. Take away the toys from the Catalyst, not to control the supposed synthetic problem, but to keep them from destroying your civilisation.

The game OFFERS you possibility to change your goal from "destroy the Reapers!" to "omg synthetics are going to kill us!" but it doesn't FORCE you into doing it. So stop complaining about nonexistent issues, there are many more real flaws to complain about.

So boring.

Modifié par Pitznik, 17 août 2012 - 07:41 .

[Ithurael]

Pitznik wrote...

Ithurael wrote...
LOL!

A computer will do whatever it takes to acheive its goal. It believes that all organic life will be destroyed by synthetic life. It knows that synthetic life exists currently. So, the only way to protect organic life from being destroyed by synthetics is to destroy all synthetics that are currently active. That ensures organic life will live a bit longer before the synthetics come back.

It is almost like at M.A.D. scenario. It sees synthetic life as its enemy, so, if it is going to die - so will its enemy.

He wouldn't willingly replace permanent repeatable solution with one day+ duration, one use only solution. Maybe he wants all synthetics destroyed, maybe it is just a a technical limitation - it is important why you do it, not what he wants.

Destroy is counter-productive towards Catalyst's goal. Destroy stops the Reapers. It doesn't require you to change priorities or anything. Don't like killing the Geth? Pick Control. Take away the toys from the Catalyst, not to control the supposed synthetic problem, but to keep them from destroying your civilisation.

The game OFFERS you possibility to change your goal from "destroy the Reapers!" to "omg synthetics are going to kill us!" but it doesn't FORCE you into doing it. So stop complaining about nonexistent issues, there are many more real flaws to complain about.

So boring.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree that you are right

[Pitznik]

Ithurael wrote...
We are just going to have to agree to disagree that you are right

Sure, you can't prove your point in any way, so you either agree with me or not, can't force you into anything, can I? Just didn't want to leave your false conclusions without answer.