230 réponses à ce sujet

[JaceBelerin]

I thought he broke his keyboard writing up that last one, and subsequently smashing it against his head as other critiqued his critique. Sadly he bought another and graced us with his ranting.yet again.

[OGWS]

Couldn't read either one cuz CAPS

[CaptainZaysh]

Nyoka wrote...

The endings require you to give up logic, story, and every possible feeling you may have had left for any of the characters or the worlds you visited, for anything material and specific about the Mass Effect universe.

They really don't.  I'm logical, a student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe.  That's not the reason you don't like the ending.

[Ithurael]

So...THAT is the kind of audience that Casey Hudson and Mac Walters are writing to. The "artsy" and abstract crowd...

hmm...interesting.

His opinion is his opinion, but this article was way too abstract. Never once did he really critic the lore (even in the prior article) He was giving us an abstract opinion about an ambiguous ending. Did he write that with vanilla ME or EC?

I never picked up on Mass Effect is about cycles (only in 3 did they make that predominatly clear).

I really wish he could review into the lore, the story, and the first two games then try to logically and narrativly review the connection(s) from there. Then give us his review.

It seems he is giving an interpretation...not a review.

[essarr71]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

The endings require you to give up logic, story, and every possible feeling you may have had left for any of the characters or the worlds you visited, for anything material and specific about the Mass Effect universe.

They really don't.  I'm logical, a student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe.  That's not the reason you don't like the ending.

They really do, tho.  Some people don't mind having to put blinders on or just drink the kool-aid, and that's fine.  But you can't dismiss the legitimate and well thoughtout arguments/concerns with dismissive statements just because you've read a book.

I'd make the declaration that as a logical, student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe, if you feel the endings are smart you need to read more.  And at a higher reading level.

Modifié par essarr71, 17 août 2012 - 05:41 .

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

The endings require you to give up logic, story, and every possible feeling you may have had left for any of the characters or the worlds you visited, for anything material and specific about the Mass Effect universe.

They really don't.  I'm logical, a student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe.  That's not the reason you don't like the ending.

No, they really do. You've made no argument that counters that, so I highly doubt you are logical. At least not with regards to ME.

CaptainZaysh wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Or he could just be an idiot, yes.

He's obviously not an idiot, Angry.  Disagreeing with you is not a sign of low intelligence, you know.

No. Making a review full of nonsense and backhanded insults is, though.
Do at least try to not let your bias influence your responses.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 août 2012 - 05:44 .

[clennon8]

He's not an idiot, and I appreciate the conciliatory nature of this follow-up article. But he's still mostly wrong.

[CaptainZaysh]

essarr71 wrote...

I'd make the declaration that as a logical, student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe, if you feel the endings are smart you need to read more.  And at a higher reading level.

You would make the declaration?  Under what circumstances?  If you were confident your understanding of grammar were sound enough to publicly lecture strangers about their reading habits?

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 17 août 2012 - 05:50 .

[Bill Casey]

D24O wrote...

Also, by his criteria that Art needs to have a message, a cerebral component that makes you think I'd say that other segments of the game do a much better job at that then the endings do.

I disagree with that...
If there's one thing the ending to ME3 does, it's make you think...
People can't stop thinking about it...

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

I'd make the declaration that as a logical, student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe, if you feel the endings are smart you need to read more.  And at a higher reading level.

You would make the declaration?  Under what circumstances?  If you were confident your understanding of grammar were sound enough to publicly lecture strangers about their reading habits? Idiot.

Says the one declaring himself logical, divining the reasons others dislike the endings with magic mind powers and then insulting any who disagree.
Thanks for proving my point, now kindly go away.

PS: Nice edit. Too bad I caught the original for all to see.

Bill Casey wrote...

D24O wrote...

Also, by
his criteria that Art needs to have a message, a cerebral component that
makes you think I'd say that other segments of the game do a much
better job at that then the endings do.

I disagree with that...
If there's one thing the ending to ME3 does, it's make you think...
People can't stop thinking about it...

Thinking about what a narrative atrocity is, certainly. But I don't think any author desires that particular line of thought.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 août 2012 - 05:53 .

[essarr71]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

I'd make the declaration that as a logical, student of story, and a huge fan of the characters and the ME universe, if you feel the endings are smart you need to read more.  And at a higher reading level.

You would make the declaration?  Under what circumstances?  If you were confident your understanding of grammar were sound enough to publicly lecture strangers about their reading habits?

On phone.  To lazy to quote you verbatum in my sentence.

And since you didn't leave a list of the mighty books you've read  (which would crush all arguments that ur smartr thEn me) I'm left to assume R.L. Stine.  Maybe some teacher made you read Arthur Miller, tho, seeing as you're a fan of the crucible.

GET IT?

Quick edit: Keep the "idiot" in.  It strengthens your post.
Double quick edit: I added " ", to their proper place, even tho I hate my iphone, because I know how much bad gramgrams bothers you.

Modifié par essarr71, 17 août 2012 - 05:58 .

[CaptainZaysh]

The Angry One wrote...

No, they really do. You've made no argument that counters that, so I highly doubt you are logical. At least not with regards to ME.

Okay.  Nyoka's argument is that "the endings require you to give up any possible feeling you had for the characters".

However many people enjoyed the endings and still are affectionate toward the characters.

Therefore Nyoka's argument is unsound.

The Angry One wrote...

No. Making a review full of nonsense and backhanded insults is, though.

Let's deconstruct that a second.  Firstly:

Nonsense  /ˈnänˌsens/
1.  Words that make no sense.
2.  Used to show strong disagreement.

You've already agreed that meaning 2 doesn't imply low intelligence, so you must be using meaning 1.  However, the words in the article clearly do make sense, since you're able to say you disagree with the meaning.  So, it's not nonsense.

Leaving us with the idea that insulting people backhandedly is a sign of low intelligence.  I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you don't believe that.

[Bill Casey]

The Angry One wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

D24O wrote...

Also, by
his criteria that Art needs to have a message, a cerebral component that
makes you think I'd say that other segments of the game do a much
better job at that then the endings do.

I disagree with that...
If there's one thing the ending to ME3 does, it's make you think...
People can't stop thinking about it...

Thinking about what a narrative atrocity is, certainly. But I don't think any author desires that particular line of thought.

It's also sparked a lot of thinking about whether Shepard was indoctrinated, whether utopia justify the means, how much power one being should have, the nature of the godzilla threshold, the sliding scale of unavoidable vs. unforgivable, and the value of intangible concepts in the face of armageddon...

For example, you chose refuse, and you have gone to great lengths to explain why you choose not to compromise your intangible principles in order to use the last best hope to save the galaxy from an overwhelming force of cyborg cthulhu. You've thought about it a lot...

[CaptainZaysh]

Okay, I admit it. I think Essarr is an idiot.

Modifié par CaptainZaysh, 17 août 2012 - 06:04 .

[essarr71]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Okay, I admit it. I think Essarr is an idiot.

Wait.  I'm confused.  Which definition of "idiot", just so we're clear?

Here.  I'll save you the time to look it up.

1. informal. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
2. Psychology, (no longer in technical use; considered offensive) a person of the lowest order in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.

I'm assuming 1, but I get the sense you're just trying to be offensive.  My head hurts.  I'm going to lay down.

Modifié par essarr71, 17 août 2012 - 06:07 .

[The Angry One]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Okay.  Nyoka's argument is that "the endings require you to give up any possible feeling you had for the characters".

However many people enjoyed the endings and still are affectionate toward the characters.

Therefore Nyoka's argument is unsound.

The original endings utterly ignored the characters. The EC tried haphazardly to fix that.
Either way, I've observed most who like the endings deal with the character disconnect by manufacturing headcanon. Even more so with the EC.

See, for example. "I chose destroy because my Shepard lived and went on to have lots and lots of sex with their LI!"

How nice. Except, you now, that never happened in the game.

Let's deconstruct that a second.  Firstly:

Nonsense  /ˈnänˌsens/
1.  Words that make no sense.
2.  Used to show strong disagreement.

You've already agreed that meaning 2 doesn't imply low intelligence, so you must be using meaning 1.  However, the words in the article clearly do make sense, since you're able to say you disagree with the meaning.  So, it's not nonsense.

Leaving us with the idea that insulting people backhandedly is a sign of low intelligence.  I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you don't believe that.

You call that a deconstruction? Heh.
It's a sign of low intelligence when you use these things on an online review meant to be seen publicly and expect to be taken seriously.
Hence my conclusion, he either does not expect to be taken seriously, or he's not very bright.

[D24O]

Bill Casey wrote...

D24O wrote...

Also, by his criteria that Art needs to have a message, a cerebral component that makes you think I'd say that other segments of the game do a much better job at that then the endings do.

I disagree with that...
If there's one thing the ending to ME3 does, it's make you think...
People can't stop thinking about it...

I won't disagree with you that people aren't thinking about it, but I feel that if the authors were trying to send a message, as Hulk says is an important part of being a piece of art, otherr parts of the game send it clearer, and without the resultant anger and hostility that the end sequence did. 

[Conniving_Eagle]

Deja Vu?

Hulk is a fool.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 17 août 2012 - 06:09 .

[dorktainian]

I for one can see that the 'Refuse' option might just be the 'only' option after we've sucked up all the incoming DLCs.

[The Angry One]

Bill Casey wrote...

It's also sparked a lot of thinking about whether Shepard was indoctrinated, whether utopia justify the means, how much power one being should have, the nature of the godzilla threshold, the sliding scale of unavoidable vs. unforgivable, and the value of intangible concepts in the face of armageddon...

IT was invented out of denial that these terrible endings were real, and still acts as a crutch for those who refuse to accept it. Anything else is mental gymnastics in an attempt to salvage logic out of the profoundly stupid, illogical, badly written, obnoxious and repulsive ending that is ME3's.

For example, you chose refuse, and you have gone to great lengths to explain why you choose not to compromise your intangible principles in order to use the last best hope to save the galaxy from an overwhelming force of cyborg cthulhu. You've thought about it a lot...

I didn't have to think about it much, because refuse represents the ideals of Mass Effect. Period.

[Centauri2002]

I'm so glad this topic is full of intelligent debate. If you really think tossing around insults is going to strengthen your argument then... perhaps you should be writing HULK articles.

When it comes to the ending, it didn't leave me satisfied. That happy 'I've finished the story', or even the mortified 'oh no, it's over!' feeling. Which is a little sad, since I was so looking forward to the last installment. That said, this doesn't necessarily make it a bad ending since it's so difficult to define that. But, it didn't suit me.

If others enjoyed it, then good for them. At least they got a sense of satisfaction from it. I'm a little jealous.

[Ithurael]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Let's deconstruct that a second.  Firstly:

Nonsense  /ˈnänˌsens/
1.  Words that make no sense.
2.  Used to show strong disagreement.

You've already agreed that meaning 2 doesn't imply low intelligence, so you must be using meaning 1.  However, the words in the article clearly do make sense, since you're able to say you disagree with the meaning.  So, it's not nonsense.

Leaving us with the idea that insulting people backhandedly is a sign of low intelligence.  I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you don't believe that.

Let us use a more realistic definition of Nonsense:

Mirriam Webster
1. Words or signs having no intelligible meaning:
2. Subject matter, behavior, or language that is foolish or absurd.
3. Extravagant foolishness or frivolity
4. Matter of little or no importance or usefulness
5. Insolent talk or behavior; impudence

Or
Wikipedia
Nonsense is a communication, via speech, writing, or any other symbolic system, that lacks any coherent meaning. Sometimes in ordinary usage, nonsense is synonymous with absurdity or the ridiculous. Many poets, novelists and songwriters
have used nonsense in their works, often creating entire works using it
for reasons ranging from pure comic amusement or satire, to
illustrating a point about language or reasoning. In the philosophy of
language and philosophy of science, nonsense is distinguished from sense or meaningfulness, and attempts have been made to come up with a coherent and consistent method of distinguishing sense from nonsense. It is also an important field of study in cryptography regarding separating a signal from noise.

NOW you can discuss Nonsense more sensibly

Modifié par Ithurael, 17 août 2012 - 06:12 .

[AresKeith]

the Hulk has been effected by Synthesis