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Film Crit HULK writes a column about his column about ME3 ENDINGS


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#201
Jonata

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ticklefist wrote...

This thread was created yesterday by the exact same POS human being that created this exact same post 2 weeks ago.

http://social.biowar.../index/13547823

****ing. Troll.


Please avoid namecalling. I'm not a "****ing. Troll.", I'm a BSN user and fellow ME3 fan who actually understood Film Crit HULK's point of view and found a way to enjoy and love the ME3 Endings/plot instead of throwing **** at BioWare. When I shared with you the first article there was a predictable uprising of people who hated and largely misunderstood what he was trying to say, so I decided to share with you the following up to that very article with explanations aimed specifically at the people who were angry in my last thread.

If you recognize this kind of behavior as "trolling", you are simply wrong.

Modifié par Jonata, 19 août 2012 - 01:03 .


#202
Blueprotoss

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Greylycantrope wrote...

1 ship =/= a bloody fleet

Yet the Normandy leads multipe fleets at the end of ME1 and ME3.

Greylycantrope wrote... 

a ground team of 7-14 people isn't an army, it isn't even a full platoon.

How is that when most of your squadmates could be their own platoon.

Greylycantrope wrote...

They had a few military operatives running secret experiments, more of a security force then a standing army. If they had an army they would have used it against the collectors.

Yet you assume this even when looking at
Jack, Kai Lang, and Shepard.  Cerebereus was a poerhouse in ME1, ME2, and ME3.

Greylycantrope wrote...

They helped but they weren't weapons of mass destruction, or weapons at all for that matter.

Vigil helped destroy a Reaper when multiple fleets of ships couldn't do so by themselves, which that would be classified as a weapon of mass destruction.  The Reaper IFF allowed Shepard and crew to defeat the extremely dangerous Collectors, which that would also be a weapon of mass destruction.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 19 août 2012 - 12:21 .


#203
Blueprotoss

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F4H bandicoot wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

F4H bandicoot wrote...

The dreams represent PTSD. As more people dies the amount of shadows increases. That's not indoctrination.
I never said HArbinger was the Reaper leader, I said he should have been for plot consistency, the vast majority of people believe he is anyway, due to his antics in ME2 and he fact he is the one who 'Holograms' you in Arrival.
Harbinger being their leader is much more beliveable than a 'Character' introduced in the last 5 minutes is.

If the dreams only represented PTSD then the signs of indoctrination like oily shadows and Reaper growls wouldn't overlap the stress even when the strongest of minds can break over fatigue.  The plot is consistent while the what and who was never named as the Reaper leader until ME3.  How is Harbinger move believable when he really do nothing to be labeled as a leader.


How is a the catalyst, a being we here nothing about, know nothing about, is not talked about at all more appropriate than Harbinger. If you Remove the Catalyst, Harby is the Reaper who looks most like the Reaper leader, heck, he leads the Reapers into the Galaxy, he talks to shep in Arrival about the Reapers coming, who else would do such a thing??
The Kid isn't even the Catalyst if that's what you're getting at, the Kid represents all the people shep can't save.

Again how could Harbinger be the Reaper leader when it never mentioned leadership.  The kid and the oily shadows represent indoctrination more then the people that Shepard couldn't save.

#204
Blueprotoss

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ticklefist wrote...

This thread was created yesterday by the exact same POS human being that created this exact same post 2 weeks ago.

http://social.biowar.../index/13547823

****ing. Troll.

Repeat threads are created all the time on forums and the insults aren't needed especially when you're using "troll" wrong.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 19 août 2012 - 01:18 .


#205
m2iCodeJockey

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ld1449 wrote...
Again, he has not played ME1 or ME2 and forms a half informed opinion.

Because of that, to me, he comes off as wholly ignorant because Mass effect 3 does support its own narrative. Taken as a stand alone it would work, taken in the context of the previous two games the picture changes and that's when you see all the lore breaking things it did.

It goes further. Test what Ghosties says against the Reaper involvement on Rannoch.
The Geth called out to the Reapers for help and they responded.

Even if you stay within ME3, Ghostie's statements still don't fit.

#206
Blueprotoss

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m2iCodeJockey wrote...

ld1449 wrote...
Again, he has not played ME1 or ME2 and forms a half informed opinion.

Because of that, to me, he comes off as wholly ignorant because Mass effect 3 does support its own narrative. Taken as a stand alone it would work, taken in the context of the previous two games the picture changes and that's when you see all the lore breaking things it did.

It goes further. Test what Ghosties says against the Reaper involvement on Rannoch.
The Geth called out to the Reapers for help and they responded.

Even if you stay within ME3, Ghostie's statements still don't fit.

The Geth did call out for the Reapers because they left the Quarians alone and they were about to be killed off by the Quarians.  This is why Legion did what he did and how Shepard reacted to Legion.

#207
wymm666

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Ithurael wrote...

So...THAT is the kind of audience that Casey Hudson and Mac Walters are writing to. The "artsy" and abstract crowd...

hmm...interesting.

His opinion is his opinion, but this article was way too abstract. Never once did he really critic the lore (even in the prior article) He was giving us an abstract opinion about an ambiguous ending. Did he write that with vanilla ME or EC?

I never picked up on Mass Effect is about cycles (only in 3 did they make that predominatly clear).

I really wish he could review into the lore, the story, and the first two games then try to logically and narrativly review the connection(s) from there. Then give us his review.

It seems he is giving an interpretation...not a review.


From what I caught on, Mass Effect was originally going to be about... MASS EFFECT! (yes, the dark energy theory)
But it's not at all inconceivable that, given the title of the game, it was originally going to be about something else in the ending, but was later twisted and changed into this. If you remember ME2's Haelstorm's mission, and the dialogues that went along, Bioware was clearly trying to nudge you into thinking about that mission and keep it in your subconcious. I wouldn't say that's definitive proof, but you know how the game dev cycle goes...:?

#208
ticklefist

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Blueprotoss wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

This thread was created yesterday by the exact same POS human being that created this exact same post 2 weeks ago.

http://social.biowar.../index/13547823

****ing. Troll.

Repeat threads are created all the time on forums and the insults aren't needed especially when you're using "troll" wrong.


Troll posts are posts used to rile ppl up. Don't try to pinpoint the freakin definition. What are you even arguing about this for? Commonplace =! acceptable.

Modifié par ticklefist, 19 août 2012 - 03:52 .


#209
Jonata

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ticklefist wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

This thread was created yesterday by the exact same POS human being that created this exact same post 2 weeks ago.

http://social.biowar.../index/13547823

****ing. Troll.

Repeat threads are created all the time on forums and the insults aren't needed especially when you're using "troll" wrong.


Troll posts are posts used to rile ppl up. Don't try to pinpoint the freakin definition. What are you even arguing about this for? Commonplace =! acceptable.


Well I can assure you I did not made this post to "rile ppl up". 

#210
Guest_BringBackNihlus_*

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As I said in that other thread about this:

Film critic =/= game critic.

#211
ticklefist

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Jonata wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

This thread was created yesterday by the exact same POS human being that created this exact same post 2 weeks ago.

http://social.biowar.../index/13547823

****ing. Troll.

Repeat threads are created all the time on forums and the insults aren't needed especially when you're using "troll" wrong.


Troll posts are posts used to rile ppl up. Don't try to pinpoint the freakin definition. What are you even arguing about this for? Commonplace =! acceptable.


Well I can assure you I did not made this post to "rile ppl up". 


Considering it was an exact copy and paste of a post that did just that, your assurances are worthless.

#212
Isichar

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Blueprotoss wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Sorry Hulk but I disagree. The Catalyst is still a character introduced at the end. The player does not know what they catalyst is, and even though it 'could be anything' we are not really given any warning that he is coming, the catalyst is only referred to by its purpose to the citadel. And then there synthesis...

Catalyst+Synthesis=Deus ex machina

Interesting format btw.

Yet the Catalyst was talked about in the Council meeting at the beginning on ME3, which would contradict being a Deus Ex Machina.  We can also add that there was always a Reaper leader but we never knew the identity of it.  


A deus ex machina (Posted Image /ˈd.əs ɛks ˈmɑːknə/ or /ˈdəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/ DAY-əs eks MAH-kee-nə;[1] Latin: "god from the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device
whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object.

Character: Catalyst
Object: Crucible
ability: Fusing all life and machines together in the galaxy.

Argue all you want, the ending is basically the definition of deux ex machina. The catalyst for one is not introduced as a character until the very end. mentioning something called "the catalyst" which was only referred to only by its purpose (which we thought was to stop the reapers... turns out it was created to solve an unsolvable contrived problem and wants to fuse all life and machines together in the galaxy) does not change this.

Take a series like BSG, God is referred to constantly through the series, and in a much more clear and understandable context then the catalyst, it is still a deux ex machina ending.

Your welcome to think that mentioning the catalyst in a completely different context then the character is introduced in justifys everything and makes you feel better about your ending though.

#213
Jonata

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ticklefist wrote...

Considering it was an exact copy and paste of a post that did just that, your assurances are worthless.


Please at least read my OP before posting. I made this post to show you the follow up to that article mentioned in the original thread, that actually answers a lot of the arguments that were made in the thread as well as in the comments sections of the original article. 

#214
megabeast37215

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This is my first post EVER in the single player section... I frequently post in the MP section.

The two HULK articles were a good read... I agree with some of it. However... I always have said that all ME3 Extended Cut should've been (in addition to what it was) was something akin to Fallout: New Vegas ending... give each character a 15-30 second snipet based on the choices you made relating to them and the 3 endings in the 3 games. Period.

It would've brought the closure everyone needed, answered alot if not all the questions.. and all the controversy could've been eluded. It would've also only needed 1-2 voice overs, been easy to program, relatively easy to write/content check... and not been 1.8 gigs.

Paladin Flame Shield Up! Energy Drain recharged!

#215
geceka

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F4H bandicoot wrote...

The Reaper Leader should have been Harbinger. Much more consistent.


Why? Just because he's the oldest and probably most powerful? There's really no reason why the Reapers, that super-advanced all-powerful race of machines, should choose their leader like a stone age tribe. Even more so, his name is "Harbinger" – which is a messenger that signals the arrival of *another*. It would have made absolutely no sense for the writers to choose that name if it was not to hint at someone else being there.

Also, Harbinger's role (or the role of the Reapers in general) in relation to the catalyst is entirely open at the moment: There has been no hinting at how "absolute" its control over the Reapers is. What we know for certain is that the Reapers are not mindless machines: They have "personalities" (e.g. compare Harbinger & Sovereign), they interact with each other ("Harbinger speaks of you"), etc... We also know (from the EC) that the catalyst is just the combined consciousness of the Reapers, which makes its existence as a separate, sovereign entity questionable.This may very well be something that future content could explore (and I have a feeling that "Leviathan" will do just that).

Finally, the Thessia VI and Javik also mention things about the cycle that seem to be beyound mere Reaper control, like every cycle having the same types of races (a warrior race – the Krogan in the current cycle, etc...), so there is still plenty of room for the writers to go in future installments. Also, we still don't really know why organic life is so important to the catalyst in the first place. There's still – at least in my head canon – quite a chance that the whole Reaper cycle is actually an attempt to interfere with an even larger, more epic type of cycle engineered by an agent we don't even know about yet. Maybe that helps you understand why I could immediately identify with Hulk's claim that "Mass Effect is about cycles" (and I see a lot of other cyclic events and relationships in the storytelling: as an example, the typical cycle of the oppressed uprising against the oppressors is symptomatic of Mass Effect's universe: the Krogan vs. the Salarians/Turians, the Geth vs. the Quarians, the Humans vs. the Council (if you play that way), the Yagh Shadow Broker vs. the original Shadow Broker, the Ardat-Yakshi (with Morinth as their avatar) against the asari, etc...).

Isichar wrote...
Argue all you want, the ending is basically the definition of deus ex machina.

 


No. Again, the catalyst as a plot device, the crucible and its function, the idea of fusing organic and synthetic life have all been central themes of the story right from the beginning (in case of the catalyst and the crucible the beginning of ME3, even though fusing synthetics and organics has even been a topic since ME1).

The catalyst turning out to be a sentient being is a plot twist, not a deus ex machina. You can argue that a plot twist so late in the game is not a good thing to do (I, in fact, like surprising endings, but that is a personal opinion). What you can't do, however, is argue that it was a deus ex machina ending, which you only do because deus ex machina endings are pretty much a sign of really bad writing in modern style, even though plenty of older works feature them, which doesn't diminish their value at all.

For a good example of a deus ex machina, look at "War of the Worlds" – either the movie with Tom Cruise, or the original novel by H.G. Wells, which I highly recommend. I loved it when I read it as a kid. There are many similarities to the Reaper plot: The gigantic, indestructible walker wreaking havoc on Earth, as an example: That book was actually the first thing I was thinking of when I saw how the Sovereign-class Reapers walked on planets, vaporizing things with their funky death beams.

Anyway, that story ends with the Martians suddenly dying from bacteria native to Earth, pretty much out of nowhere. That's a deus ex machina.

The writers had so many opportunities to end with a deus ex machina: Well, even if the combined fleet at the end suddenly turned out to be able to defeat the Reapers by itself, that would have been deus ex machina, since we got so much evidence before that this is impossible ("oh, look, turns out that when we all fire our Thanix cannons at once, we actually can oneshot the Reapers. Glad we suddenly figured that out.").

BringBackNihlus wrote...
film critic =/= game critic.


Absolutely. That was actually one of Hulk's main points in the orginal piece. He argued that on one hand, people want games to be taken seriously as a medium (I certainly do), but on the other, they rebel if a game story sacrifices   pushing the gamers' buttons in all the right places (spectacular heroic victory against all odds, happy ending with blue babies, you – the player – are the most awesome, unstoppable force in the galaxy, and whatnot) for a nuanced, though-provoking and, there, I said it, mature resolution. There's a double-standard there, or would you argue that the latest Michael Bay flicks are actually artistically interesting?

#216
SpamBot2000

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Artsy Sophomore's Confusion About To Generate 10th Page Of Commentary! Stay Tuned!

Bah, even making fun of this feels stale now.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 19 août 2012 - 12:05 .


#217
BaladasDemnevanni

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geceka wrote...

Absolutely. That was actually one of Hulk's main points in the orginal piece. He argued that on one hand, people want games to be taken seriously as a medium (I certainly do), but on the other, they rebel if a game story sacrifices   pushing the gamers' buttons in all the right places (spectacular heroic victory against all odds, happy ending with blue babies, you – the player – are the most awesome, unstoppable force in the galaxy, and whatnot) for a nuanced, though-provoking and, there, I said it, mature resolution. There's a double-standard there, or would you argue that the latest Michael Bay flicks are actually artistically interesting?


While I do think alot of gamers have become too attached to the idea of a "happy" ending, I think it should be pointed out that the lack of one does not necessitate that this other scenario exists. That ME3 does not include a happy ending does not mean that ME3's ending is, by necessity, nuanced, thought-provoking, or mature. I'd gladly give up a happy ending in exchange for the latter, but I don't believe that to be the case with the original endings.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 19 août 2012 - 12:06 .


#218
geceka

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BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

That ME3 does not include a happy ending does not mean that ME3's ending is, by necessity, nuanced, thought-provoking, or mature.


Of course not. One could go even further and argue that even a nuanced, thought-provoking, mature ending is not, by necessity, good. Yet exactly the fact that the endings are nuanced, rather than wildly different, was one of the prime complaints by a lot of fans, especially pre-EC: A galaxy with the Reapers destroyed, dominated or synthesized has always had wildly different implications for the future, even though the immediate outcome was largely the same. The EC tried to address this with its slideshows, which wanted to make these implications more clear. That, however, was not a retcon.

I realize that the EC retconned the perfection of the post-decision "tabula rasa", in which originally all Reaper tech, including the relays, was gone. While that sits perfectly fine with the idea of a clean slate after finally breaking the cycle billions of years in, it was quite a strong statement. I totally admit that, even though I can see *why* this was meant to be, it bothered me a lot as well, since I love the Mass Effect universe and wanted it to continue in a recognizable form. The EC retconned this by keeping the relays pretty much intact (in high-EMS versions), which I'm personally happy about, by also totally see how a hardliner sees this as diluting the original vision.

If anything ever comes out from this discussion, it should just be that the endings shouldn't be talked about as just "good" or "bad". There are points they address extremely well, while there are others (and, of course, other interpretations) which are not handled so well. Which points those are is probably different for everyone.

Just iterating over and over in each and every thread how the endings "suck" leads to nowhere. At this point, even if Bioware wanted to rewrite them completely (which they won't), I don't see how they could even *know* what the fans wanted, as everything they get thrown at them are just verdicts, rather than constructive ideas. Someone earlier in this thread posted how they hated that the catalyst living on the Citadel invalidates ME1 – Well, would the endings really benefit if the catalyst just randomly said "Oh, by the way, I'm dormant between cycles" or "I wanted to watch if the organics could beat Sovereign, since that might hint at them being ready for synthesis" or whatever. Would this have added to the story, other than closing a tiny, unimportant plothole?

Constructive questions that I could think of are along the lines of "Why is organic life – or actually, the continued evolution of new forms of organic life on different planets – so important to begin with that it warrants an extinction cycle?". Or "Was the cycle really engineered by the Reapers, or are they just part of it, like the Thessia VI hinted at?". Something that expands on things, rather than undoing them, as the latter won't happen anymore.

#219
Isichar

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@Geceka

whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object
.


The problem is the purpose of everything changes at the end. Before you step onto the crucible you are working towards defeating the reapers, after you step onto it everything changes. The purpose is changed to "fix the tension between organics and synthetics" something that has always been a strong theme in mass effect, but never felt like the main purpose behind the story, the catalyst who we thought to be an object (the citadel) at that point turns out to be the reaper leader, and explains that the reapers are merely puppets to his will with very arguable explanations (Not saying hes wrong, just that it was arguable) and the function of the Catalyst and crucible goes from "Stopping the reapers" to "Fixing organic/synthetic tension and been capable of basically god like abilitys" and well you may argue that the concept of synthesis already existed, certainly not in the manner it was presented (A beam been able to rewrite all DNA in the galaxy) going from one function to the other is a huge leap in capability. The catalyst, crucible, and reapers in general are all introduced early on, but the context we view all 3 change in the last 10 minutes. And when I view something in a complete 180 in terms of context in a story it may as well just be a new character.

Now the protheon VI did say that there could be someone or something that ruled the cycles, so I would admit you could argue that makes the catalyst a plot twist since it is not an entirely new concept, but still combined with the crucible and the explanation behind his actions theres a lot to absorb at the end.

Each one of these on their own may have been fine (except synthesis, it pushes the limits of my belief way too far) but as a whole presents a lot of unanswered and uncomfortable questions (some that seem very illogical too, for many). I love the concept of the unknown and I very much respect the way the Hulk views the ending and would feel the same way if I could view it that way.

I am still going to have to respectfully disagree about the endings been a deux ex machina ending, but I think that just comes down to the context in which we look at the endings.

Modifié par Isichar, 19 août 2012 - 03:10 .


#220
geceka

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Isichar wrote...

Before you step onto the crucible you are working towards defeating the reapers, after you step onto it everything changes. The purpose is changed to "fix the tension between organics and synthetics"


That is not true. Shepard steps in there with the intention to defeat the Reapers, and he gets excatly this option as "Destroy". The catalyst even introduces this one with "I know you've thought about destroying us".

Other than that, the catalyst just explains the cycle. You could basically skip all that and go right to "Destroy" if you/your Shepard won't want to listen. In the EC, you can even refuse to use the crucible altogether.

Also, the true purpose of the Crucible has never been made clear before. We only know it is "capable of destroying the Reapers" (and it is), and we have at least two conversations that I can remember (with Liara after Mars and a bit later with Hackett) that there's a certain danger because we don't know what the Crucible does exactly, and the results might be devastating – In the end, depending on EMS, destroy can incinerate Earth or at least kill all synthetics, pretty much consistent with the rest of the game.

Isichar wrote...

the function of the Catalyst and crucible goes from "Stopping the reapers" to "Fixing organic/synthetic tension and been capable of basically god like abilitys" and well you may argue that the concept of synthesis already existed, certainly not in the manner it was presented


You are not tasked with solving the organic/synthetic problem. The catalyst only tells you that this is *his* reason, but he also mentions explicitly that "Destroy" would not solve this all, and that in "Control", the idea is that Shepard could continue the cycle later at his own will – also not a "new" solution, rather a reiteration of the current one.

Also, "Control" has been a central theme since the beginning, too. TIM mentions it the first time on Mars, and then later basically every time you interact with him. Shepard's main retort has always been "what if it doesn't work?". In fact, Shepard is genuinely surprised it *is* an option at the end ("So the Illusive Man was right after all").

"Synthesis" is a new option, agreed, but even the catalyst introduces it as such. There is no need to choose it. In fact, if you reject the whole organics/synthetics topic (which is just the reason the catalyst has – it doesn't validate or invalidate the sensibility of the cycle whatsoever), you can choose "Destroy". The catalyst even says there "will" (not "might be") a tech singularity in the future, but it's a thing your Shepard can accept, ignore or simply not believe if you choose so.

Isichar wrote...

(A beam been able to rewrite all DNA in the galaxy) going from one function to the other is a huge leap in capability. 

...

(except synthesis, it pushes the limits of my belief way too far) but as a whole presents a lot of unanswered and uncomfortable questions (some that seem very illogical too, for many).


I don't see this as a huge storytelling problem at all. On one hand, the idea of a race so advanced that their technology appears like magic to the less developed is a common theme in sci-fi (well, even gunpowder was regarded as magic by those people not yet familiar with it). On the other, what would the story have gained from explaining in detail how synthesis works. Of course, the catalyst could have said something like "I use the crucible as a power-source to rapidly fabricate trillions of nanites, which are then blown across the galaxy through the mass relays and form complex circuitry within every organic being, while installing transmitters to network everyone, synthetics and organics alike". Note that Reaper nanites have already been introduced before as part of the indoctrination process, so they have that tech.

Something like this would have pretty much been like "midichlorians", an explanation for something that is better left unexplained, because it just seems nitpicky and actually cheapens the whole thing, while adding nothing. Yet again, pulling off *some* sort of explanation would, as shown, not be that hard. It's not as if synthesis suddenly pulls in weird metaphysical ideas like the organics' "souls" or whatever.

#221
CrazyRah

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The first article was really amusing to read. This one was just more.. tiresome to read. The caps do hurt my eyes

#222
m2iCodeJockey

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geceka wrote...
Also, the true purpose of the Crucible has never been made clear before. We only know it is "capable of destroying the Reapers" (and it is), and we have at least two conversations that I can remember (with Liara after Mars and a bit later with Hackett) that there's a certain danger because we don't know what the Crucible does exactly, and the results might be devastating – In the end, depending on EMS, destroy can incinerate Earth or at least kill all synthetics, pretty much consistent with the rest of the game.

You are not correct.
The audience has NO FREAKIN' IDEA if the Crucible is anything other than big waste of time.
Liara: "What if these are our last days and we spend them..."

What the audience knows is:
-It is most likely designed by someone who did not successfully use it to defeat the Reapers.
-Someone else that couldn't even build it left the design in an archive in such a way that no one noticed it for 35 years.
Neither of those two things said "This is a GREAT plan!!"
The two together said "We need a stasis facility..."

On my first playthough, I was completely prepared for it to do nothing but enable the Citadel to connect to a new location, letting in a third army that ate the Reapers then, became a new threat.

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 19 août 2012 - 04:58 .


#223
Blueprotoss

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Isichar wrote...

A deus ex machina (Posted Image /ˈd.əs ɛks ˈmɑːknə/ or /ˈdəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/ DAY-əs eks MAH-kee-nə;[1] Latin: "god from the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device
whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved
with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event,
character, ability, or object.

Character: Catalyst
Object: Crucible
ability: Fusing all life and machines together in the galaxy.

Argue all you want, the ending is basically the definition of deux ex machina. The catalyst for one is not introduced as a character until the very end. mentioning something called "the catalyst" which was only referred to only by its purpose (which we thought was to stop the reapers... turns out it was created to solve an unsolvable contrived problem and wants to fuse all life and machines together in the galaxy) does not change this.

Take a series like BSG, God is referred to constantly through the series, and in a much more clear and understandable context then the catalyst, it is still a deux ex machina ending.

Your welcome to think that mentioning the catalyst in a completely different context then the character is introduced in justifys everything and makes you feel better about your ending though.

The Catalyst isn't a "machine god" especially when ME is limited to the Milky Way and nobody knows if there is something higher up on the food chain then the Reaper AI.  Btw you shouldn't forget that there are multiple meanings to the term "Deus Ex Machine", which is why you should have explained your points since you're either talking about a machine god like Skynet or something coming out of left field like Average Joe's win in Dodgeball.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 19 août 2012 - 05:26 .


#224
geceka

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m2iCodeJockey wrote...

The audience has NO FREAKIN' IDEA if the Crucible is anything other than big waste of time.
Liara: "What if these are our last days and we spend them..."


It could have been, yes. Either that, or something to destroy the Reapers. They believed the latter, but some (mostly Liara) was afraid of the former. Both points have been brought up in the game. ME doesn't use cutbacks for the core story, so we *know* nothing in advance. Things are only introduced.

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

-Someone else that couldn't even build it left the design in an archive in such a way that no one noticed it for 35 years.
Neither of those two things said "This is a GREAT plan!!"
The two together said "We need a stasis facility..."


The idea that the Crucible is not a perfect plan, but the only plan they have, is pretty central to ME3. Lots of characters, including Shepard, comment on that. This is not illogical, considering that everyone in the ME universe seems to agree that a conventional victory is flat out not possible.

In fact, if they had a perfect, fail-safe plan right from the beginning, it wouldn't have been all too exciting, would it?

Remember, in ME1, they were searching for the Conduit since about the middle of the game, yet didn't know at all what it was and if it actually had any significance towards stopping Saren or Sovereign. It was just the only lead they had.

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

On my first playthough, I was completely prepared for it to do nothing but enable the Citadel to connect to a new location, letting in a third army that ate the Reapers then, became a new threat.


Now fortunately they didn't resort to deus ex machina like this.

#225
Blueprotoss

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ticklefist wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

ticklefist wrote...

This thread was created yesterday by the exact same POS human being that created this exact same post 2 weeks ago.

http://social.biowar.../index/13547823

****ing. Troll.

Repeat threads are created all the time on forums and the insults aren't needed especially when you're using "troll" wrong.


Troll posts are posts used to rile ppl up. Don't try to pinpoint the freakin definition. What are you even arguing about this for? Commonplace =! acceptable.

Yet you would be the "troll" based on trying to rile up someone with insults, which is part of the definition.  Btw creating another thread on the same topic happens all the time on forums and that doesn't fall under "trolling".