54 réponses à ce sujet

[samb]

 I really hate how the people in squad mates in ME2 are relegated to the background. I jumped through so many hoops to recruit them, do their loyalty missions only to have none of them join me, die, or cheat on me. 

In fact, it makes me want to kill them on my next play through of ME2. I want to see how the plot evolves with some no name generic NPC.

Somehow, BW has made me hate the characters I came to love. Mordin was the only one that had a good reason for not joining me and dying. 

Really, why couldn't Grunt join me after his squad was wiped?  Why couldnt I help Miranda with tracking down her father (who worked closely with TIM)?  What about almost plotless characters like Kasumi and Zaeed?  What are they doing that is keeping them from getting on the Normandy?  Nothing, that's what. BW's laziness just killed one of its main appeals; the characters. 

[Taboo]

Yes I agree.

Many characters were sidelined to make room for people like Vega.

[CptData]

Well, I don't mind Vega.
But I hate how Miranda got reduced to her sis with a nearly insignificant plot that only gets some light impact on the story. Well, tbh you could replace Henry Lawson by a generic dude of TIM's operatives.

Out of the ME2 bunch only Mordin got a decent story arc. Everyone else got reduced to ... well, a cameo.
Can say the same about Ashley too - if you don't allow her to come back to the Normandy, she got the same content as Miranda. If you allow her to come back and didn't romance her, she's like Miranda (no real content), plus being a squadmate.

Well, overall ME3 failed where ME1 and ME2 had been strong: characters.

[DineBoo]

I sort of want to do it for science. Go into Gibbed with my "perfect" (lol yeah right) save with everyone loyal and saved.

Kill off Jacob because the douche in ME3 was not the Jacob in ME2 I came to like.

Kill off Thane so I won't be forced to watch that awful thing they call a fight scene with a space ninja

Kill off Samara because I'd rather have her in my squad than Liara, but since I can't oh well.

And so on.

I bet if I loaded up that fixed save, my game would play exactly the same, just minus some war assets. And that sucks. Where's the replayability in that?

[CptData]

DineBoo wrote...

I sort of want to do it for science. Go into Gibbed with my "perfect" (lol yeah right) save with everyone loyal and saved.

Kill off Jacob because the douche in ME3 was not the Jacob in ME2 I came to like.

Kill off Thane so I won't be forced to watch that awful thing they call a fight scene with a space ninja

Kill off Samara because I'd rather have her in my squad than Liara, but since I can't oh well.

And so on.

I bet if I loaded up that fixed save, my game would play exactly the same, just minus some war assets. And that sucks. Where's the replayability in that?

Good question.

For a RPG where YOUR decisions do matter, ME3 has less replayability than the two parts before. Maybe it's no longer a RPG but a shooter with RPG parts?

[samb]

DineBoo wrote...

I sort of want to do it for science. Go into Gibbed with my "perfect" (lol yeah right) save with everyone loyal and saved.

Kill off Jacob because the douche in ME3 was not the Jacob in ME2 I came to like.

Kill off Thane so I won't be forced to watch that awful thing they call a fight scene with a space ninja

Kill off Samara because I'd rather have her in my squad than Liara, but since I can't oh well.

And so on.

I bet if I loaded up that fixed save, my game would play exactly the same, just minus some war assets. And that sucks. Where's the replayability in that?

When I replay ME2 I'm going to kill everyone off except for Garrus, Mordin and Tali.  It makes me angery that BW made all these cool characters, fleshed them out, then abandon them completely.  Why even put in the work then?  I feel like ME2 wasn't even needed since only ME1 characters came back with anything meaningful plot.  It should have just been ME1 and ME3.  The only thing we needed ME2 for was TIM and Mordin, everything else was just window dressing. 

[LanceSolous13]

I honestly have no clue how they screwed this up.

After I played ME2, I had a clear idea on where they'd take everyone. Miranda and Jacob would be involved in a Cerberus Arc and possibly take out her father in the process.

Thane would probably be involved in curing the drell so they could fight in the war. (His character development and LI Status cemented this for me completely. He's also my canon Fem!Shep's LI)

Samara and her Justicar order could be explored. I had so many questions on the Justicar Code. Is it constantly being updated? Who wrote it? If its a living document, who updates it? Is the some court that rules on weather a Justicar is adhearing to the code?

Jack seemed to be the only character that actually went in a direction I expected her to take.

[Taboo]

Miranda still has a role in the plot, she's just aloof.

The only really great content is the romance stuff in ME3.

[BrysonC]

At the end of ME2 you get the distinct impression that your team is really *your* team. You're no longer part of the Alliance, you're no longer part of Cerberus (provided you take the Paragon path), and your only allegiance is to your squad and defeating the Reapers.

And then in ME3 they're all inexplicably scattered to the 4 corners of the galaxy even though they nearly died fighting the Reapers and logically should have remained together continuing to fight toward their goal, waiting for Shepard to return - and the reason that Shepard is unable to stay with them is only properly explained in a paid-for ME2 DLC? Bleh.

The most nonsensical treatment was Grunt's. There was absolutely no reason that he shouldn't have joined the Normandy crew after the rachni nest.

Modifié par BrysonC, 17 août 2012 - 09:03 .

[themikefest]

it seems like they put an emphasis on the me1 characters and had me2 mates sit on the sidelines except garrus and tali
not have vega and add grunt
liara should've stayed on shadow broker ship(see her when needed) and have miranda in her office
zaeed where allers is
jack in the empty room
if you don't recruit javik samara could have that room

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes I agree.

Many characters were sidelined to make room for people like Vega.

That makes no sense.

That's like me saying many characters were sidelined to make room for Garrus.

[Taboo]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes I agree.

Many characters were sidelined to make room for people like Vega.

That makes no sense.

That's like me saying many characters were sidelined to make room for Garrus.

It does make sense. People like Miranda, personal feelings aside, had major roles in the plot. She was the poster child of ME2. She has no reason to not be on the Normandy. She could just as easily have found her sister with the resources found there.

Samara suffers from a similar fate, giving a ridiculous excuse to not join Shepard.

The ME2 characters were pushed aside to make room for chacters like Vega and EDI and one, Tali, was included simply because her fanbase is so rabid.

There is no excuse for these kinds of things.

[MACharlie1]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes I agree.

Many characters were sidelined to make room for people like Vega.

I don't think anybody was sidelined for another party member. Recall that a new character was absolutely neccessary to the game since your entire squad can die in ME2.

Without Vega/EDI/Javik (the new squadmates) - you'd be stuck with just LIARA. The game simply never has worked like that. The only time you are ever with one squadmate is between Jenkins death and Ashley and Arrival. The game needs the second squadmate on 99% of missions. Sure, you can argue thats your punishment for being such a crappy leader. But it's not a realistic punishment. Sure, I can see if you lose them as squadmates but you do need a second one. 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes I agree.

Many characters were sidelined to make room for people like Vega.

That makes no sense.

That's like me saying many characters were sidelined to make room for Garrus.

It does make sense. People like Miranda, personal feelings aside, had major roles in the plot. She was the poster child of ME2. She has no reason to not be on the Normandy. She could just as easily have found her sister with the resources found there.

Samara suffers from a similar fate, giving a ridiculous excuse to not join Shepard.

The ME2 characters were pushed aside to make room for chacters like Vega and EDI and one, Tali, was included simply because her fanbase is so rabid.

There is no excuse for these kinds of things.

No. James and EDI were included because had they not, there might have been a chance the player would have had only one squadmate. 
I understand many characters were sidelined, but it wasn't because of James and EDI (And I personally despise EDI) but it was because of Bioware's lazyness. I do agree that it's dissapointing and that there's no excuse.

[Taboo]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No. James and EDI were included because had they not, there might have been a chance the player would have had only one squadmate. 
I understand many characters were sidelined, but it wasn't because of James and EDI (And I personally despise EDI) but it was because of Bioware's lazyness. I do agree that it's dissapointing and that there's no excuse.

Incorrect.

You need at least two squadmates to survie the Suicide Mission to get out. There is no reason for them to not be there. Instead, Bioware chose to make two entirely new characters and push the rest, those who were already established aside.

You can't import if Shepard dies. Those two squadmates could have joined. I think people would have preferred being able to choose who went on their team. That certainly felt more RPGish.

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No. James and EDI were included because had they not, there might have been a chance the player would have had only one squadmate. 
I understand many characters were sidelined, but it wasn't because of James and EDI (And I personally despise EDI) but it was because of Bioware's lazyness. I do agree that it's dissapointing and that there's no excuse.

Incorrect.

You need at least two squadmates to survie the Suicide Mission to get out. There is no reason for them to not be there. Instead, Bioware chose to make two entirely new characters and push the rest, those who were already established aside.

You can't import if Shepard dies. Those two squadmates could have joined. I think people would have preferred being able to choose who went on their team. That certainly felt more RPGish.

Yeah, but then they have to make all 12 squadmembers into squadmembers, since any given playthrough could have literally any combo.  That's just a nightmare from a programming POV.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

No. James and EDI were included because had they not, there might have been a chance the player would have had only one squadmate. 
I understand many characters were sidelined, but it wasn't because of James and EDI (And I personally despise EDI) but it was because of Bioware's lazyness. I do agree that it's dissapointing and that there's no excuse.

Incorrect.

You need at least two squadmates to survie the Suicide Mission to get out. There is no reason for them to not be there. Instead, Bioware chose to make two entirely new characters and push the rest, those who were already established aside.

You can't import if Shepard dies. Those two squadmates could have joined. I think people would have preferred being able to choose who went on their team. That certainly felt more RPGish.

Incorrect.

What if your two squadmates that survived were Legion and Thane, that conflicts with the main plot, and they played a pretty huge part in the game, at least Legion. You cam't possibly think that every squadmate in ME2 was going to join back.....

[LanceSolous13]

No. The "You're entire squad could be dead" arguement doesn't fly period.

Tali can be dead yet she is given a crit path role.
Garrus can be dead but he's a squaddie.
Mordin is one of the easiest to die in the SM and is given one of the best scenes in the game and appart of the very first mission arc.
Wrex can be dead, yet he gets a role in ME2 and ME3 while his replacement was well written to give a different perspective on the Genophage Choice.
Legion could be dead at the start of Mass Effect 2 yet has a crit path role.

No. That arguement DOES NOT fly at all.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

No. The "You're entire squad could be dead" arguement doesn't fly period.

Tali can be dead yet she is given a crit path role.
Garrus can be dead but he's a squaddie.
Mordin is one of the easiest to die in the SM and is given one of the best scenes in the game and appart of the very first mission arc.
Wrex can be dead, yet he gets a role in ME2 and ME3 while his replacement was well written to give a different perspective on the Genophage Choice.
Legion could be dead at the start of Mass Effect 2 yet has a crit path role.

No. That arguement DOES NOT fly at all.

How so? three of those characters you mentioned have replacements that fill in their spot incase they died, their path isn't so critical. And the other two have been there since ME1, they get most attention with good reason.

And three out of those five aren't even squaddies.....

Modifié par Khajiit Jzargo, 18 août 2012 - 12:13 .

[LanceSolous13]

Yes, there are replacements, but that doesn't deveate the point that Mordin is given a very important part in Mass Effect 3 despite being very easy to let die in ME2.

Saying "They could all be dead so they had to be sidelined" is false because Mordin has a perfectly fine role even though he can easily die.

Heck, Miranda can only die during the Final Boss segement if she's unloyal yet she has no role in Mass Effect 3 really unless you romanced her. She is completely sidelined just like everyone else.

[Mavqt]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yes I agree.

Many characters were sidelined to make room for people like Vega.

That makes no sense.

That's like me saying many characters were sidelined to make room for Garrus.

It does make sense. People like Miranda, personal feelings aside, had major roles in the plot. She was the poster child of ME2. She has no reason to not be on the Normandy. She could just as easily have found her sister with the resources found there.

Samara suffers from a similar fate, giving a ridiculous excuse to not join Shepard.

The ME2 characters were pushed aside to make room for chacters like Vega and EDI and one, Tali, was included simply because her fanbase is so rabid.

There is no excuse for these kinds of things.

Doesn't she say at the end of her mission, "It must wait now that I can help oppose the Reapers. If you'll have me of cause."

Or something close to that.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Yes, there are replacements, but that doesn't deveate the point that Mordin is given a very important part in Mass Effect 3 despite being very easy to let die in ME2.

Saying "They could all be dead so they had to be sidelined" is false because Mordin has a perfectly fine role even though he can easily die.

Heck, Miranda can only die during the Final Boss segement if she's unloyal yet she has no role in Mass Effect 3 really unless you romanced her. She is completely sidelined just like everyone else.

We mean sidelines as squadmates, not sidelined as they player a critical part in the game.

[Mavqt]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Yes, there are replacements, but that doesn't deveate the point that Mordin is given a very important part in Mass Effect 3 despite being very easy to let die in ME2.

Saying "They could all be dead so they had to be sidelined" is false because Mordin has a perfectly fine role even though he can easily die.

Heck, Miranda can only die during the Final Boss segement if she's unloyal yet she has no role in Mass Effect 3 really unless you romanced her. She is completely sidelined just like everyone else.

Don't she die if she's unloyal and leading the one of the fire teams?