54 réponses à ce sujet

[LanceSolous13]

Nope. She can carry the fire team on her own if she's unloyal. Her stats are just that high or something.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Nope. She can carry the fire team on her own if she's unloyal. Her plot-armor are just that high or something.

Fixed.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Nope. She can carry the fire team on her own if she's unloyal. Her stats are just that high or something.

Who actually can carry fire team without casualties? I know Garrus and Miri can, but is there anyone else?

I tried Grunt once and it didn't work out too well. He obviously wasn't command material, but he's still and ass kicking machine. I figured he'd get them through.

Garrus can't if he unloyal, only Miranda can't die till the end if she's unloyal, and that's only if you bring her to the end. She can live unloyal if she stays back to hold the line.

[LanceSolous13]

Its not plot armor.

Plot armor is when a character cannot anf will not die period. Kai Leng has plot armor.

Miranda can die in ME2 and thus she doesn't have Plot Armor. She also doesn't have plot armor in ME3 as she can and will die if unloyal in ME3.

[MACharlie1]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Its not plot armor.

Plot armor is when a character cannot anf will not die period. Kai Leng has plot armor.

Miranda can die in ME2 and thus she doesn't have Plot Armor. She also doesn't have plot armor in ME3 as she can and will die if unloyal in ME3.

Just out of curiosity, what would you call it then? She literally CANNOT die until Hold the Line/Boss battle. It is impossible. 

[MACharlie1]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Its not plot armor.

Plot armor is when a character cannot anf will not die period. Kai Leng has plot armor.

Miranda can die in ME2 and thus she doesn't have Plot Armor. She also doesn't have plot armor in ME3 as she can and will die if unloyal in ME3.

Just out of curiosity, what would you call it then? She literally CANNOT die until Hold the Line/Boss battle. It is impossible. 

If that's the case, Ashley or Kaidan have some of the most spectacular plot armor, as one of them cannot die until the Cerberus coup.

I think the difference lies in that with the ME2 squad and the Suicide Mission - everyone else can die at any other point (swarms, leading the second fire team) except Miranda. Remember, in this case, we're just looking at the ME2 squad and the suicide mission. Miranda has plot armor in ME2 - I'm not sure how that can be disputed. 

Liara has the longest standing plot armor since after being in three games, she can only die once. I could say also that Vega is to but he is only present for one game. Garrus has two (if you count SM as a whole) opportunities in the series. 

Modifié par MACharlie1, 18 août 2012 - 12:40 .

[Omega Torsk]

Ugh, it drives me NUTS!

Miranda: Sorry Shepard, but I'm too busy obsessing over the safety of my grown sister.

Jacob: Sorry Shepard, but I was apparently missing purpose in the last game and found it by protecting a backwater colony. Oh, and I'm now a condescending douche that will cheat on you if you romanced me. Oh and guess what, I'm gonna be a dad!

Jack: Naw, I'm waaay too busy teaching these teenagers how-2-biotic.

Samara: No, Shepard. The writers decided that my code compels me to join the frontlines.

Morinth: *SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAMMM*

Zaeed: Sorry Shepard, but I'm compelled to just stand here the entire game and say the exact same string of dialogue. Wish I could help.

Kasumi: Sorry, Shep. One mission with me is all you get! Not everybody bought the DLC, y'know!

Grunt: Naw. I'm just going to fade into obscurity until your final convo with me.

*Facepalm* Sooo much wasted potential! I really hope Bioware fixes this with DLC...

[Khajiit Jzargo]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Its not plot armor.

Plot armor is when a character cannot anf will not die period. Kai Leng has plot armor.

Miranda can die in ME2 and thus she doesn't have Plot Armor. She also doesn't have plot armor in ME3 as she can and will die if unloyal in ME3.

Just out of curiosity, what would you call it then? She literally CANNOT die until Hold the Line/Boss battle. It is impossible. 

If that's the case, Ashley or Kaidan have some of the most spectacular plot armor, as one of them cannot die until the Cerberus coup.

Except Me1.....

[samb]

 There is a perfect reason for BW neglecting the ME2 squad: laziness. I don't blame James or EDI for this, I blame BW.

like James, in fact he has more personality than Kaiden and Ashley combined. I also don't consider EDI new. In fact, she's my new favorite character thanks to very good development. BW just didn't want to give the same treatment to old squad mates. 

My hope is that they were holding all it back due to not wanting to make ME3 a 4 disc game and will release them one by one as paid DLC in the future. Fingers crossed. 

[samb]

Omega Torsk wrote...
Ugh, it drives me NUTS!

Me too!!!!!

Miranda: Sorry Shepard, but I'm too busy obsessing over the safety of my grown sister.

More like this...Miranda: I won't let you help me even though we are both after TIM and our goals intersect.  Yeah, it doesn't make sense at all. 

Jacob: Sorry Shepard, but I was apparently missing purpose in the last game and found it by protecting a backwater colony. Oh, and I'm now a condescending douche that will cheat on you if you romanced me. Oh and guess what, I'm gonna be a dad!

Yeah BW really butchered Jacob. I never romanced him so it didn't sting as much, but it still doesn't make sense. 

Jack: Naw, I'm waaay too busy teaching these teenagers how-2-biotic.

Well now Jack's reason for not joining is okay. She Was abused as a child and now protects biotic kids. It was a nice touch but I have to wonder if Anderson's girlfriend might have done just as good a job. 

Samara: No, Shepard. The writers decided that my code compels me to join the frontlines.

Very arbitrary. I just saved your daughter and you can't even join me?  You joined me for the Collectors how is this any different?

Zaeed: Sorry Shepard, but I'm compelled to just stand here the entire game and say the exact same string of dialogue. Wish I could help.

 Sheppard: hey let's go a take back the Blue Suns from Vido (or Vosque)!!!

Kasumi: Sorry, Shep. One mission with me is all you get! Not everybody bought the DLC, y'know!

Screw the paying costumers, we hate money.  

Grunt: Naw. I'm just going to fade into obscurity until your final convo with me.

Grunt: I know my squad got wiped which should free me from my obilgations and you did cure the genophage but for some ****** reason I can't. Yeah I like to kill big stuff and being with you will let me indulge in that pastime but..... Well BW didn't bother to make unique dialogue for that. 

*Facepalm* Sooo much wasted potential! I really hope Bioware fixes this with DLC...

Amen brother. 

[cbutz]

BrysonC wrote...

At the end of ME2 you get the distinct impression that your team is really *your* team. You're no longer part of the Alliance, you're no longer part of Cerberus (provided you take the Paragon path), and your only allegiance is to your squad and defeating the Reapers.

And then in ME3 they're all inexplicably scattered to the 4 corners of the galaxy even though they nearly died fighting the Reapers and logically should have remained together continuing to fight toward their goal, waiting for Shepard to return - and the reason that Shepard is unable to stay with them is only properly explained in a paid-for ME2 DLC? Bleh.

This 1000X this, especially the first paragraph. ME 2 made me feel that Shepard was free with his squad. He was going to take his squad, adding Liara and the VS and take the fight to the Reapers. Those that could nto be squadmates would lay key roles in the fight against the reapers...but nope, doesn't matter, we chose wrong.

[Foolsfolly]

DineBoo wrote...

I sort of want to do it for science. Go into Gibbed with my "perfect" (lol yeah right) save with everyone loyal and saved.

Kill off Jacob because the douche in ME3 was not the Jacob in ME2 I came to like.

Kill off Thane so I won't be forced to watch that awful thing they call a fight scene with a space ninja

Kill off Samara because I'd rather have her in my squad than Liara, but since I can't oh well.

And so on.

I bet if I loaded up that fixed save, my game would play exactly the same, just minus some war assets. And that sucks. Where's the replayability in that?

I played a nearly everyone dead run. Miranda, Zaeed, and ...someone else I forget who lived. It was as few survivors as I've ever gotten without Shepard dying.

Mostly it plays just like you fear with just some War Assets missing. In missions where people are missing they're replaced with other NPCs or 'ideal' victorys are impossible and you have to choose something.

Sad thing is without Garrus and Tali there's almost no reference to how many died. Liara says once or maybe twice about how she misses Garrus, once in his recruitment mission.

But there are two real differences. Mordin being gone gets you Padoks Wilks who I enjoyed listening to. He should have talked to Javik since they have some rather similar thoughts on philosphy.

The other is Jack's absence in the Academy mission. It's much sadder without Jack and the kids really step up as leaders. It also makes Anderson's "Goddamnit I hate this war" comment have more weight to it. With Jack it's like... "Dude we just gained a biotic fighting force or support team from Cerberus. Win win!"

Other than those two times (I also killed off Miranda as soon as I could and then shot Kaiden dead) there's not a big difference in things.

[Omega Torsk]

I would like to stand up and call BS on Bioware dumping the ME2 characters due to the fact that they "might" have died in ME2. Let's be honest, here. Who really let most of those characters die!? Aside from a couple Shepards, every SM run has resulted in full extraction. Y'know why? Because they're awesome characters and they deserve to be in the future of Mass Effect.

Morinth is the only understandable one (honestly, if you killed Samara in lieu of her, you deserve to be punished with a Banshee cameo), however, there was virtually no excuse for everybody else. They physically remade Jack's appearance and the best she has is a supporting role in a mission and a couple conversations? Come on! Something tells me that she was supposed to be a squadmate, but it was cut. Same story with Grunt.

This was either laziness or pulling back for reasons relating to future DLC.

Honestly, seeing what we got in light of what we could have had, I would've been fine with giving them another year to work on the SP campaign, AT LEAST.

[RasenRebirth]

They need more content

[shepskisaac]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It does make sense. People like Miranda, personal feelings aside, had major roles in the plot. She was the poster child of ME2. She has no reason to not be on the Normandy. She could just as easily have found her sister with the resources found there.

Samara suffers from a similar fate, giving a ridiculous excuse to not join Shepard.

The ME2 characters were pushed aside to make room for chacters like Vega and EDI and one, Tali, was included simply because her fanbase is so rabid.

There is no excuse for these kinds of things.

Vega and EDI are necessary even if only for gameplay reasons. You need basic soldier, biotic and tech professions covered for all players, regardless of saves, important or anything and what class your Shep is. Since everyone from ME1 & ME2 could be dead, except for Liara, they needed 2 new squadmates. If ME2 were shafted to make room for anyone, it was for Garrus & Tali who became squadmates for the 3rd time in the trilogy.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 18 août 2012 - 05:52 .

[samb]

The more squad mates, the more dialogue they need to incorporate. If BW doubled the cast it would increase the memory needed to maybe 4 discs or more. But if BW had did release the ME2 squad mates as DLC how much would you vs willing to pay? This could be a big money grab from BW if they price it right.

[Premier Bromanov]

samb wrote...

The more squad mates, the more dialogue they need to incorporate. If BW doubled the cast it would increase the memory needed to maybe 4 discs or more. But if BW had did release the ME2 squad mates as DLC how much would you vs willing to pay? This could be a big money grab from BW if they price it right.

Consoles and their disc format and royalties, holding back everyone else.  And that's not even mentioning digital marketplace hosting fees for console services, which limits the size of DLC a publisher will be willing to create, as well as the amount of DLC.  This ties in to what I say below.

One huge DLC that introduces all of the ME2 squadmates would be expensive.  So would lots of little DLC that do the same thing.  For this reason, I don't think they would bother.  Anyway, no, I wouldn't buy that DLC, because these characters should have been included in the first place.  Bioware dug their grave by writing off these characters.  In addition, it would be embarrassing, watching them stumble all over themselves trying to find a way to write themselves out of all of those corners.

Modifié par Premier Bromanov, 18 août 2012 - 06:56 .

[Twilight_Princess]

I remember my disappointment very well.

The first ME2 squad mate I bumped into was kasumi and I wasn't aware of the "war asset" crap yet. So After that mission with her I got excited because it sounded like she was going to join me on the normandy. After searching every room on the ship I was very confused "Didn't she say she was going to help me???" after a quick internet search I realized kasumi had just become a number. But there were at least 2 empty rooms right? They had to put SOME ME2 squadmates in those right? NOPE. What a waste.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 18 août 2012 - 06:05 .

[chidingewe8036]

I want this thread to keep going you know why??????

THIS IS THE ONE THING THAT INFURIATED ME ABOUT ME3 INFURIATED!!!!!!!!

Since the announcement of ME3 my squad from ME1 and 2 is all I cared about, all I wanted to see come back, everything else was unimportant. I wanted Everyone back onboard as we find a way to fight and defeat The Reapers together but no Bioware gives us this half baked cake I..........DON'T............UNDERSTAND.

I CARED ABOUT ALL OF MY SQUAD BIOWARE AND YOU DID NOT EVEN GIVE ME A MISSION WITH THEM AS TEMPORARY SQUADMEMBERS.

OH MAN PISSED DOES NOT DESCRIBE MY FEELINGS ON THIS TOPIC I AM BEYOND MAD ANGRY WHATEVER!!!!!!!!

[Vlk3]

My biggest issue with Mass Effect 3 is the treatment of ME2 characters. I believe that all LI's should be a possible squadmates in ME3 (not just temporary squadmates- they may join Shep's team later in game (like Tali) but they should be permanent squadmates). Only as the squadmates they would get the content they deserve and we, their fans, deserve.
Other ME2 squadmates should get more content as temporary squadmates, but I'd settle for just more missions related to them in some way, because it's impossible to bring everyone back.

So, after adding Jack, Miranda, Jacob (yes, Jacob), Thane and perhaps Samara there would be 4-5 more squadmates. Base squad in ME3 (including Javik) consists of six characters, so total number would be 11. ME2 could do that, so does ME3.

Of course, bringing those squadmates back on the Normandy would be optional and would require good relations with them, a mission to be done or just high paragon/renegade score.

BioWare's games always had fantastic, deep and inspiring characters. ME3 is currently standing out, because some of the best squadmates were tossed aside.
But it's not a mistake that can't be fixed.
We should not settle for what we were given, ME3 is the final part of the trilogy it needs to tell the story of both ME1 and ME2.

Edit:

samb wrote...

The more squad mates, the more dialogue they
need to incorporate. If BW doubled the cast it would increase the
memory needed to maybe 4 discs or more. But if BW had did release the
ME2 squad mates as DLC how much would you vs willing to pay? This could
be a big money grab from BW if they price it right.

For Thane? Really, a lot. And then I would pay for other ME2 squaddies. I agree that they would have to be added in a few DLC's not one big, becasue that would be impossible.

Modifié par Vlk3, 18 août 2012 - 11:50 .

[BobZilla84]

Bioware really dropped the Ball in Mass Effect 3 in regards to the Characters they completely sidelined all tthe Mass Effect 2 Squad and the sad thing is that if you want a satisfing experience in Mass Effect 3 "Romance Arc & everthing alse" you have to romance Liara,Garrus or Tali because the rest are pathetic.

And the people that Romanced Miranda,Jack,Thane,Jacob,Kelly,Samara I think that Bioware essentially has shown their stance on this issue and the same can be said about Ashley & Kaiden as well both where handled poorly in Mass Effect 3.

The moral of the Story is Go Blue or Dextro or you F*** yourself.

[samb]

How big was the From Ashes DLC? If they could incorporate a character, complete with his own quest and unique dialogue, then just how big would the whole set of ME2 squad mates be?

[samb]

chidingewe8036 wrote...

I want this thread to keep going you know why??????

THIS IS THE ONE THING THAT INFURIATED ME ABOUT ME3 INFURIATED!!!!!!!!

Since the announcement of ME3 my squad from ME1 and 2 is all I cared about, all I wanted to see come back, everything else was unimportant. I wanted Everyone back onboard as we find a way to fight and defeat The Reapers together but no Bioware gives us this half baked cake I..........DON'T............UNDERSTAND.

I CARED ABOUT ALL OF MY SQUAD BIOWARE AND YOU DID NOT EVEN GIVE ME A MISSION WITH THEM AS TEMPORARY SQUADMEMBERS.

OH MAN PISSED DOES NOT DESCRIBE MY FEELINGS ON THIS TOPIC I AM BEYOND MAD ANGRY WHATEVER!!!!!!!!

Yeah ME3 made me think "why did you even release ME2?"  Why did you make me care about the characters, encourage me to save them only to abandon them in ME3?  Keep this thread up and maybe we will see some added content.