37 réponses à ce sujet

[Icesong]

Wulfram wrote...

Skyrim removed a whole lot of really rubbish, uninteresting, unintuitive complexity. And added good, interesting complexity with the perks.

Skyrim also removed quest directions for the vast majority of quests forcing to you rely on the quest compass. That alone negates the progress they made in other aspects.

And let that serve as a lesson. All you'd ever hear when talking about the drawbacks of the compass in Oblivion was that it satisfied everyone:

"Freedom, choice! If you don't like the quest compass you don't have to use it!"
<Skyrim releases>
"Oh, no more quest directions? Would you look at that. Well, I'm still happy!"

Modifié par Icesong, 18 août 2012 - 08:49 .

[Yrkoon]

Icesong wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I'm pretty sure that Oblivion sold better than Morrowind, actually.

Happily enough, it didn't.

It did, actually.  It sold a lot more.   Each elder scrolls title  has sold progressively more than the previous one.

The only figures I've seen say Morrowind sold more. We don't have Steam's numbers so maybe it edged out there.

http://news.teamxbox...s-Record-Sales/

Oblivion sold 4 times as many copies as Morrowind.

[Korusus]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

Actually I disagree.

I don't think Skyrim was dumbed down at all from Oblivion.

I agree with your disagreement.  Oblivion will always hold the gold trophy for most dumbed-down Elder Scrolls game ever released.  It will always hold that ignomonious title.  Skyrim was a far superior product in almost every tangible category.

BUT

On topic:  DA2 sold worse not becuase it was dumbed down, but because it's simply a rushed bad quality production game, it was designed from the very beginning to be a bad quality production game, the only reason it sold as well as it did was because of BioWare's name.  It was not the quality one expects from a AAA developer like BioWare.  Word of mouth killed it, same as word of mouth made DA:O so successful.  The End.

Case in point:  ME 2/3 are dumbed down games, but are also high quality productions which was the saving grace (minus the ending of ME3)

[Gotholhorakh]

Re: Oblivion, I disliked Oblivion's MacRPG approach, but I still bought it and got some enjoyment out of it.

Even though I felt it was a retrograde step at the time (which Skyrim vindicated, because Skyrim made sense of the whole thing and showed us what Oblivion was trying to achieve) - it was nowhere near as bad a game as DAII.


DA2 combined
a) fundamental changes which they knew everyone would hate (but held onto in a blindly obstinate fashion)
ignoring everyone sensible from the changes to design rationale onward
c) shortcuts everywhere
d) a massive FUUUU to the fans who dared to notice what everyone at BW probably noticed from day one - that the game was a completely random departure from anything they could reasonably have expected.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 18 août 2012 - 11:46 .

[Icesong]

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I'm pretty sure that Oblivion sold better than Morrowind, actually.

Happily enough, it didn't.

It did, actually.  It sold a lot more.   Each elder scrolls title  has sold progressively more than the previous one.

The only figures I've seen say Morrowind sold more. We don't have Steam's numbers so maybe it edged out there.

http://news.teamxbox...s-Record-Sales/

Oblivion sold 4 times as many copies as Morrowind.

You're really not reading that right.

[Mike_Neel]

Would you say it sold more because it was "dumbed" down to be more accessible, or would you say it sold more because gaming in general has become more widely accepted and there are more gamers making purchases now?

I'd say the later. When Morrowind came out gaming, and ESPECIALLY RPG gaming was much more "geek culture". With Oblivion coming out riding on the launch of an all new x-box with record breaking sales, it was much more acceptable to purchase an Elder Scrolls game. Though being a launch title didn't hurt as well either, as launch release games are pretty sparse.

But with Skyrim there's a ton of people playing games now who weren't when Oblivion released. I mean as much as we "gamers" like to celebrate our love of "geek culture" gaming is no longer a part of said "geek culture". It's much more accepted. It's not for the nerds anymore. You have just as many dudebros and "chicks" buying games now then you did when Oblivion, and even Dragon Age Origins came out.

Gaming is now a hobby that everyone can enjoy and I'm sure easier barrier of entry or dumbed down is a part of it, but there's still a large part of it simply being more people are buying games now than they were back then. Though I'm being off topic here. Apologies.

[Blastback]

Fisto The Sexbot wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

4chan + meta critic

this.

Yes and no.  Word of mouth, including 4chan and metacritic lowered DA2's sales.  But you can't blame them alone.  I'm the Bioware fanboy amoung my friends, whenever a new Bioware game comes out, they always ask me about it.  I can take credit for geting three, maybee four people to buy Origins.  But I couldn't bring myself to recomend DA2.  I told them what changed, that i disliked it, but this was Bioware's reasoning for making the changes, etc. I tried to be fair say that it wasn't my cup of tea, but plenty of other people seem to enjoy it.  But in the end, the folks I talked to felt the same way as me. 

Essentially, DA2 developed a very divisive and controversial buzz that left potential players cold.  If the people you know in the target audiance think it's a bad game. why would you like it? 

[Realmzmaster]

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I'm pretty sure that Oblivion sold better than Morrowind, actually.

Happily enough, it didn't.

It did, actually.  It sold a lot more.   Each elder scrolls title  has sold progressively more than the previous one.

The only figures I've seen say Morrowind sold more. We don't have Steam's numbers so maybe it edged out there.

http://news.teamxbox...s-Record-Sales/

Oblivion sold 4 times as many copies as Morrowind.

You need to go back and re-read the article . It states that Oblivion sold four times as much in sales volume as the next best selling title for that week. It does not say that Oblivion sold four times as many copies as Morrowind.

It says that Morrowind the highly regarded predecessor remains one of the top 25 best selling pc games four years after its release. Morrowind was still selling well enough to be in the top 25 best selling PC games.

[Icesong]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Icesong wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I'm pretty sure that Oblivion sold better than Morrowind, actually.

Happily enough, it didn't.

It did, actually.  It sold a lot more.   Each elder scrolls title  has sold progressively more than the previous one.

The only figures I've seen say Morrowind sold more. We don't have Steam's numbers so maybe it edged out there.

http://news.teamxbox...s-Record-Sales/

Oblivion sold 4 times as many copies as Morrowind.

You need to go back and re-read the article . It states that Oblivion sold four times as much in sales volume as the next best selling title for that week.

Which was a month old Sims 2 expansion pack that would go on to beat it in the yearly numbers.

I thought Oblivion only sold 3 million but apparently it got around 4 million as recently as the end of last year:

Skyrim was quick to sell 3.5 million copies in its first 48 hours at retail, and the game has been universally praised by critics.

[...]

NPD's Anita Frazier noted: “In one month, Elder Scrolls V:  Skyrim is just about half a million units shy of matching Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion in lifetime sales."

Morrowind also sold 4 million last we heard in 2005. Or at least the last time I can find.

Modifié par Icesong, 19 août 2012 - 06:29 .

[Yrkoon]

So about the same...  totally ignoring steam, of course, which Oblivion took advantage of.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 août 2012 - 09:21 .

[Icesong]

Well, not full advantage as Steam wasn't what it is now in 2006 when Oblivion released. Bethesda didn't offer up Morrowind and Oblivion until mid 2008 I think it was.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

FaWa wrote...

 I'm asking you, BioWare

Because it was ****e, and also because word of mouth, everyone who played origins told there friends to buy it because it was good, and everyone who played dragon age 2 thought it was ****e and proceeded to tell there friends not to buy it..

Hell Dragon Age 2 wouldn't have initially sold as much if it hadn't been for Origins.